Very Active Member
I’m curious to see what everyone’s opinions are on the changes NDOW is considering ?
Point creep can only happen in states that have a preference system or where a certain percentage of tags go to max point holders and year after year you can clearly see the points needed to draw a certain tag going up. Colorado, Arizona, and Wyoming are perfect examples of states where point creep occurs. Point creep cannot happen in Nevada since tags are awarded in a random drawing where currently it benefits those with the most points due to squaring. You cannot look at a unit in Nevada or a specific hunt and see that it took a specific number of points to draw it one year and see it go up the next year.This absolutely needs to happen! The article states not one max point holder drew a California Bighorn, Rocky Mtn Bighorn, or Mountain Goat. This is the definition on how point creep happens. NDOW has no reason to go to a 25% rule because they will loose money! NDOW knows they don't have to give max point holders the tags and they will keep applying especially due to the rule that you will loose all points if you miss applying for 2 years. NDOW also needs to make all Sheep and Mountain Goat tags Once in a Lifetime. Removing those out of the draw who have already drawn a tag will increase draw odds add help address the point creep.
I agree return tags absolutely gets abused. I was surprised with the change Utah did this year regarding this policy but agree with it and think all western states should follow. There change was if it's not returned within 30 days of season opening and it's not medical or military commitment you loose all you points. Also, agree Wyoming blocking nonresidents from accessing federal wilderness without a guide or resident is not right and needs to go up to the Federal Courts.I think reducing the choices to two would be a good idea in improving draw odds. I also think limiting tag returns to one time is good because the unlimited tag returns get abused. Arizona has a good plan with their point guard system.
I am completely against changing tag allocations to guarantee 25% or any % for that matter to max point holders. Nevada’s current draw system is the best of any of the 6 states that I apply for. Sheep and goat tags are hard to come by regardless of the state and draw system. First it will be 25% of the tags, then 50% then 75% like Wyoming. The new max point holders will never be satisfied and random draws will be all but impossible. Next it will be 50% of the tags are guaranteed to guide hunts only, which I think is a complete abuse of a public resource. Just like Wyoming blocking nonresidents from accessing federal wilderness areas. Not against guides, I just feel they shouldn’t get any special treatment.
Hopefully more people find out about it and more will write the Wildlife Commissioners about it. I found out about it because certain families draw a 23 or 24 tag every year and it didn't make sense looking and the bonus point data. Started asking around and someone literally told me they put in with the Grandma every year and return her tag. Love it when people on here say Nevada has the fairest draw system in the west and nothing should be change. LOLSHUSH
You may get a hit put out on you for posting that return tag loophole on a public forum.
There are a lot of folks in high official positions taking advantage of that loophole. Who do you think created it in the first place?
Read the new regs. It will now be even easier to return a tag.
That sounds good to me.The loophole closes this year. I believe last year was the last year it was possible now one turns in his tag all tags are surrendered. Points will be returned to all in the party.
Since we are talking about changes to Nevada's draw system here is loophole I heard several people take advantage of to get premium deer tags every year. I have searched the regs for a answer to this and can't find anything. Can someone clear this up if it's just a rumor I heard or a flaw in the system that needs to be fixed.
"So Billy and Bob put in with their Grandma every year on a party deer hunt. Grandmas never actually hunted or even shot a gun but they put her in every year and she has a ridiculous amount of points. Once results come out they return Grandmas tag and keep their tags. Grandma not only keeps her points but gains a point and this pattern goes on every year."
Does Nevada not have the rule that all applicants in the party must surrender their tag or points will be lost? If this is really going on this HAS to be changed.
Sagebrush, Nevada has more than rifle hunts and you get 5 choices. With 6 or 7 points you can shot for the moon with your first 3 choices and apply for archery on your last 2 and still end up with a really great tag you can draw every year. Shoot with 6 or 7 points your almost guaranteed a archery tag in 231.Grandma could only have max points of 24. With Billy and Bob on the app, that gives them 8 points for the app. Which area is it that you can draw every year with 8 points? Just curious.
The only areas I could find in the statistic report that every applicant drew where the max points applied was 8 or less were 7, 18, 22E and 25. Not exactly the most sought after tags.
I think your right. It is all hearsay. Thats a big enough change it would have been put in the regs with the other big changes like returning a tag online etc.I agree that Nevada’s return Deer tag policy is a bad deal and is being abused.
I agree that changes need to be made to stop the abuse.
However at this point have the changes actually been made into law or are we just wishful thinking at this point?
I haven’t read any regulations concerning any return tag changes except the one in the 2020-2021 application guide book.
The way I read that change it seems it will actually be easier to return a tag now by doing it online.
I couldn’t find anywhere that stated that all party members would have to surrender their tag if one party member did.
Again is there any official confirmation of the rule change or is it just hearsay at this point?
Couldn’t agree more. Max point guaranteed tags may clean up a layer or two of point holders before it becomes a log jamb again, similar to AZ. Then these same guys will want 50% of the tags, then 75%. Fact is, these tags are hard to come by anywhere and most people will die with their points. Nevada’s current draw is as fair as it gets but I would like choices limited to 2 or maybe 3.Does anyone find it funny that the guy proposing this has shot 2 Nevada Desert Sheep and is applying for his third??? He is upset because he has max for Cali and Rocky and hasn’t drawn them yet...really? He has 8 rams under his belt that I know about. How about we look towards the future hunters instead of the past. I am 40 and I apply in 7 states and I’ll be lucky to get my one sheep tag, but yeah let’s cater to this guy!!! There are wayyyyyy more people in the middle then the top. I love Nevada’s system and I think most people would like 2-3 choices instead of 5 and at the very least I would like to see this proposal as 2 different votes.
Last year, 1 person with 6 points and 2 people with 7 points applied for a 231 archery tag. None of them drew.Sagebrush, Nevada has more than rifle hunts and you get 5 choices. With 6 or 7 points you can shot for the moon with your first 3 choices and apply for archery on your last 2 and still end up with a really great tag you can draw every year. Shoot with 6 or 7 points your almost guaranteed a archery tag in 231.
It’s not just Billy or Bob applying with Grandma. How about the guy that just applies with his wife every year that has 12 points and does the same thing, or the family that has several non-hunting family members involved to really increase their odds. The scenarios that are probably going on are endless.
The fact is, it’s a loophole in Nevada’s deer party hunting that is being abused by some Nevada hunters to increase their draw odds.
Hopefully by addressing this on a public forum word gets out to Nevada Sportsman and it causes such an uproar NDOW has no choice but to address it and do the right thing.
In Colorado they would, but this is not Colorado and for that they apply in Nevada, we know how the game works and that's why we apply. I don't feel for guys that have piles of points, they obviously like building points more than they like hunting. AND yes, they do have MORE SKIN in the game, that skin is called BETTER ODDS to draw. Sheep tags are typically a mega millions type lottery in general. KEEP IT THE WAY IT ISBwht4x4, Gotcha, guess we can call it "Max point holder creep" LOL I think if someone has been applying for 27 years they should have a little more skin in the game besides just more points due to squaring. What's your opinion on making sheep and mtn goat once in a live time instead of the 10 year wait? Also, what do you think about 3 choices instead of 5?
I live in 021 and spend a lot of time out there.Now that I am defying the odds having not drawn the 021 tag for seventeen years running, and being at the top of last year's heap, I am a big fan of giving one to the top point holder.
That’s why I’m going to stack up my points than move to Nevada just to draw a sheep tag as a residentFact of matter is that most people will never draw sheep tags no matter what draw system there is. NV is probably the only state where a resident will likely draw a desert tag if they aren't hung up on applying for only the primo trophy units and apply to draw for 30+ years. Most non-residents won't draw as the demand is too high relative to the supply. NV currently has probably the fairest system to give weight to long term applicants without shutting out anyone. Leave it as is
that’s awesome even though I imagine it won’t be implemented tell next year but much the less that will help the overall situation a lot.The Wild Commission was having a meeting March 21, but got cancelled due whats going on right now. If you read number 2 on the attached link it looks like they will be discussing returning tags in a party application. Great news for Nevada Hunters!
http://www.ndow.org/uploadedFiles/ndoworg/Content/Public_Meetings/CANCELLED - CGR 490 - LCB File No. R103-19 - Party Tag Bonus Points - NOI(1).pdf
I think fewer choices will make the hardest to draw tags easier to draw. For most species I apply for the very, very best on my first 2 choices, next 2 good tags I have some experience in the unit, last choice for the best odds tag I'm willing to burn my points for.I'm totally fine with squaring of the points to reward folks that have been applying for long periods of time. Someone with 2 pts get 5 random numbers (4+1) and the guy with 25 pts gets 626 random numbers. That's the reward! All you have to do is look to UT, CO, WY and see that instituting some sort of allocation or preference for max point holders and realize it only helps a small group of hunters and discourages young and new hunters. IMO Colorado is the worst draw system there is!!
IMO, all sheep and mtn goat hunts should be OIL. I'd also support a restriction on the number of tags anyone can have in one year. For example, I think if you draw a deer and an elk tag in the same year or a sheep and a deer tag in the same year you're done drawing any other Nevada tag for that year. There's way more demand than tags available and we need to spread the opportunities around if we want to keep hunters interested in the sport.
I'm also ok with 3 choices, but not 2 choices. All this does is forces people to consider all of their choices when applying. It's not going to make the tough hunts a lot easier to draw.
Oh gotcha I think that’s a good call for the future generations to have some type of hope.I believe it was reserving 25% of tags for max point holders.
HiDesert, Here is a link to the video addressing it and it looks like they are really stoping it at all angles. In the video they even addressed family members using Grandpa every year for this loophole and having Grandpa go to the doctor to get a letter saying he can't hunt. Sounds like they are not going to even accept a doctor letter. This is the BEST change NDOW has done to keep things fair. I wonder how many of the max point holders for deer aren't even hunters.......That was my question I was going to ask, was the party tag loophole finally closed during this meeting?
Thanks for sharing. That is great news!HiDesert, Here is a link to the video addressing it and it looks like they are really stoping it at all angles. In the video they even addressed family members using Grandpa every year for this loophole and having Grandpa go to the doctor to get a letter saying he can't hunt. Sounds like they are not going to even accept a doctor letter. This is the BEST change NDOW has done to keep things fair. I wonder how many of the max point holders for deer aren't even hunters.......
Starts at about the 50 minute mark.
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