Tips for setting up my muzzleloader

[elkassassin]

Hey Jake?

I Thought You Got Some BH 209?

Quit F'N Around With The Other JUNK Powders!

 

[elkassassin]

Not Sayin This Is What Is Happening Jake!

But When We Take Our SmokePoles Out To Shoot Them We Take 3-4 Guns Each!

We Leave The Truck Running With The AC On High!

After 2-3 Shots We Set That Gun Back in the Truck To Cool A Bit!

Grab Another SmokePole & Do The Same!

And So On!

Not Sayin You're Over Warming Your Barrel But You Might Be?

But Please Tell Us You're Gonna Tap That KEG of BH 209!

 

[elkassassin]

BH 209 Is HOT Stuff!

We Toasted a Couple of Remingtom Ultimate Breech Plugs Somewhere around 400-500 Shots!

Try & Buy A Couple of Them Right During the COVID BS!

 

[JakeH]

Not Sayin This Is What Is Happening Jake!

But When We Take Our SmokePoles Out To Shoot Them We Take 3-4 Guns Each!

We Leave The Truck Running With The AC On High!

After 2-3 Shots We Set That Gun Back in the Truck To Cool A Bit!

Grab Another SmokePole & Do The Same!

And So On!

Not Sayin You're Over Warming Your Barrel But You Might Be?

But Please Tell Us You're Gonna Tap That KEG of BH 209!

Lol picking it up tomorrow, but still trying to get this sh!t to work lol.

I don't think it was a heat issue, damn thing did the exact same thing today. Shot 4 shots bullets touching 2 at 50, then two at 100. Brushed and dry swabed the barrel, and then it was all over the place. Tried different bullets and cleaning and finally was getting it maybe shooting better but I ran out of primers. (I have more just forgot to grab them) but started shooting the powerbelts elr and it seemed to settle down and shoot better. I just ran out of primers before I could confirm.

But I don't think it's a heat issue, I'm not burning them out of it and it's not getting hot at all.

I no longer think it's the scope though.

I'm gonna try and get this thing shooting the t7 so I can use it as a back up or a Colorado gun if I ever get a tag over there since I won't be able to use my paramount over there.

And at this point it's personal I got to figure out what the hell is going on. lol

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

If I Had The Money I've Blowed Out The Barrel Of SmokePoles................!

With the BH 209 We've Shot up to 15-17 Rounds Without Cleaning/Swabbing The Barrel!

No I Don't Recommend it,But We Tried It Just To See How Many Shots It Took Before She Started Gettin Tight!

Try That With Any of That Other TRASH Powder!

We Are Hunting & Shooting the ELR's Out Of Our Remington Ultimate's!

They Shoot Flatter Than Anything Else We've Tried!

However,The 338 PLATINUM POWERBELTS Shot Slightly Tighter Groups!

Lol picking it up tomorrow, but still trying to get this sh!t to work lol.

I don't think it was a heat issue, damn thing did the exact same thing today. Shot 4 shots bullets touching 2 at 50, then two at 100. Brushed and dry swabed the barrel, and then it was all over the place. Tried different bullets and cleaning and finally was getting it maybe shooting better but I ran out of primers. (I have more just forgot to grab them) but started shooting the powerbelts elr and it seemed to settle down and shoot better. I just ran out of primers before I could confirm.

But I don't think it's a heat issue, I'm not burning them out of it and it's not getting hot at all.

I no longer think it's the scope though.

I'm gonna try and get this thing shooting the t7 so I can use it as a back up or a Colorado gun if I ever get a tag over there since I won't be able to use my paramount over there.

And at this point it's personal I got to figure out what the hell is going on. lol

 

[JakeH]

Ya!

If I Had The Money I've Blowed Out The Barrel Of SmokePoles................!

With the BH 209 We've Shot up to 15-17 Rounds Without Cleaning/Swabbing The Barrel!

No I Don't Recommend it,But We Tried It Just To See How Many Shots It Took Before She Started Gettin Tight!

Try That With Any of That Other TRASH Powder!

We Are Hunting & Shooting the ELR's Out Of Our Remington Ultimate's!

They Shoot Flatter Than Anything Else We've Tried!

However,The 338 PLATINUM POWERBELTS Shot Slightly Tighter Groups!

About 4 shots bess. And that's pushing it lol

I had some 270gr platinum and it didn't shoot well at all, then switched to the 330 gr elr and it seemed better. Just ran out of time to really test it out.

I'm starting to wonder if I have to have a super clean barrel as the first set of bullets the last two outings the 350 gr bore lock shoot amazing. But then a quick dry swab and brush out and it goes to crap and shoots literally 12-16"s higher then the first set. When I switched over to the elr I had cleaned the gun fairly well with wet patches and then dried it really well.

My new gun should be here tomorrow as well, but I probably won't be able to get it set up and shooting till next week.

The saga will continue lol ?

 

[elkassassin]

Like You've Heard Me Say Many Times Jake!

You Can Spend alot of Time & Money Dinking Around Getting These SmokePoles Dialed In!

About 4 shots bess. And that's pushing it lol

I had some 270gr platinum and it didn't shoot well at all, then switched to the 330 gr elr and it seemed better. Just ran out of time to really test it out.

I'm starting to wonder if I have to have a super clean barrel as the first set of bullets the last two outings the 350 gr bore lock shoot amazing. But then a quick dry swab and brush out and it goes to crap and shoots literally 12-16"s higher then the first set. When I switched over to the elr I had cleaned the gun fairly well with wet patches and then dried it really well.

My new gun should be here tomorrow as well, but I probably won't be able to get it set up and shooting till next week.

The saga will continue lol ?

 

[elkassassin]

I See What You're Doing Now!

Saving The BLACK GOLD For The New Gun!

 

[heartshot]

I've never heard of "dry swab and brush out". The advice above is to to run a spit patch (wet). I squirt some windex on a patch and run it down the barrel. I turn the same patch inside out and run it down again (not adding more windex). Then I pour more powder down the barrel to shoot again. In the field I throw the patch in my mouth (spit) instead of windex.

 

[txhunter58]

With 777 I always use a wet patch (both sides) followed by a dry patch ( both sides) between each shot. If I didn’t clean between each shot, accuracy went south in a hurry. Hope it’s something like that and not the bullets. Only time I use a brush is at home when I am cleaning.

 

[txhunter58]

The more I think about it, the more I think it is how you are trying to clean during a shooting session.

With pyrodex or 777 I shoot 25-30 times at the range with nothing more than a spit patch and dry patch between each shot. Clean barrels vs fouled barrels always hit a little differently.

With BH 209 I have shot as many as 25 times without swabbing once. If more shooting than that, I clean out the carbon in the rear of the breechplug but don’t clean barrel until I am done shooting.

 

[JakeH]

I'm not saying I'm cleaning it right, but not sure it is what is causing the issue. The only reason I am using the brush is because the crud ring is significant. And even with wet Swabbing with cleaner it takes a bit to get it clear. The brush helps.

But, after some more discussion with the guys at the local gun shop I have another piece of the puzzle that I am going to present to you guys and get your opinions.

I have noticed that after a few shots I start getting smoke coming from under the fore stalk out of the ram rod hole, I'm certain it is not coming from the breech plug. So with this new information what say you all?

I'm gonna try and attach a video, not sure how that's gonna work. Lol

 

[diablo]

Wow - never seen that! Gotta love CVAs!

Has to be coming from the breech or the muzzle.

 

[txhunter58]

Take your gun out of the stock. If what you say is true, there would have to be a hole in the barrel. I really really doubt that. Quick way to figure that out if you don't see a hole is to have someone video you shooting from the side.

The way I get around the crud ring is to have a "range rod" that is much longer than my guns rod. When I get close to the crud ring I start making very short strokes in and out, not going all the way to the bottom. After a few strokes, the rod/patch slide down to the bottom and I proceed with the rest of the patches. The longer rod gives you more leverage for strength to do that. Could even have one with a T handle.

Do me a favor and try this: Next session, shoot 1 fouling shot. Then shoot 5 times with nothing but a wet/dry patch between each shot. See what happens. If that doesn't fix the issue, I think it has to be your scope or mount. Either that or you have to change bullet or volume of powder.

 

[JakeH]

Wow - never seen that! Gotta love CVAs!

Has to be coming from the breech or the muzzle.

99% positive it's not coming from the breech.

Take your gun out of the stock. If what you say is true, there would have to be a hole in the barrel. I really really doubt that. Quick way to figure that out if you don't see a hole is to have someone video you shooting from the side.

I took the gun apart, nothing super obvious but...

I believe it's coming out from that hole under the welded portion. The guys at the gun shop basically said they wouldn't shoot it again and send it off to cva, that was only based off of these pictures as I didn't have the gun to show them at the time.

I had ruled out the scope and mounts, I had suspected that after the first go round, but then when it repeated it with accurate shots at first and then all over the place I figured the scope wasn't the issue.

 

[diablo]

99% positive it's not coming from the breech.



I took the gun apart, nothing super obvious but...
View attachment 80134View attachment 80135View attachment 80137View attachment 80136
I believe it's coming out from that hole under the welded portion. The guys at the gun shop basically said they wouldn't shoot it again and send it off to cva, that was only based off of these pictures as I didn't have the gun to show them at the time.

I had ruled out the scope and mounts, I had suspected that after the first go round, but then when it repeated it with accurate shots at first and then all over the place I figured the scope wasn't the issue.

Do you have any pics of the breech or spent primers? Are the primers sealing??That fouling near the action lug is suspicious (there shouldn’t be any fouling there). And shouldn’t be any holes in that area in front of the breechplug so a leaky primer is the most likely issue.

 

[txhunter58]

I don’t know what the breech area of that gun looks like, but if it a sealed breech, I would concur that it’s most likely a leaky primer. The gasses are leaking around the primer and have to go somewhere. They pick the path of least resistance. If the breech/primer is open, then you really have a serious problem.

The good news is if the primer is the issue, it is not Dangerous to shoot and has an easy fix: shimming the primer pocket.

 

[txhunter58]

Shimming the 209 Primer Pocket - updated 4/7/16

OK finally getting time to get to this. I am not the best writer in the world so I am hoping this makes sense to most. Headspace or the lack of can be one of the biggest reasons that a primer from the battery cup is forced up into the hammer hole in the face of the bolt. If you look carefully...

www.modernmuzzleloader.com

 

[txhunter58]

Bottom line is none of us really are sure what is wrong. I would email CVA with those pics and video. See what they have to say.

Try to call them first and find out what email to send them to. Might be a more private email than just the general one

 

[JakeH]

Do you have any pics of the breech or spent primers? Are the primers sealing??That fouling near the action lug is suspicious (there shouldn’t be any fouling there). And shouldn’t be any holes in that area in front of the breechplug so a leaky primer is the most likely issue.

This is what I got for you, actually found a primer from my last shooting session too.

tell

OK there ya go, I'm here for my diagnosis, tell me how bad is it Doc?

 

[txhunter58]

I’m no expert and I have never fired that gun, but it sure looks like blowback around the primer to me. I doubt the “gun shop guys” will have an answer for you. Contact CVA tech services. Sending you a PM

 

[diablo]

Yeah, I don’t shoot CVAs either but sure looks like a bunch of fouling and corrosion at the breech. Gotta be where it’s coming from. That particular primer looks pretty clean but there is often variation of a few thousandths in the lengths. Maybe that one sealed and some of the others didn’t.

 

[joesikora]

I just Google that powder and Cabelas has it where I live I guess
$64.99 a 8oz bottle but its $22 to ship it! I’ll go buy it for you and ship it myself if that makes it cheaper for you

 

[joesikora]

Sorry it’s free shipping as well. I wanted to see if it would come up out of stock so I put four of them in a cart and it was 64.99 each and free shipping!?
i will go to a rural King in the morning and see if they have it and price if you’d like

 

[diablo]

Bh209 starting to show up all over the place now. I think JakeH said he already found some though.

 

[Ballistic]

Here’s a 777 load combo that has worked really well in most 50 cal muzzys that are running 209 primers and it’s not enlarging/blowing out the flash holes. This is different than most combos that are popular but is worth trying.
1- .40 cal 200 grain Hornady xtp pistol
bullets(hollow points)
2- MMP magnum sabots (blue) that reduce the .50 down to .40
3- 777 powder weighed at 100 grains =2100 fps 110=2200 fps 120=2300 fps.

Start low and watch for signs of pressure on the primer (buldging out) as different lots of powder can make huge differences in pressure.
Most .50,s can handle the 120 grain charge just fine with low weight 200 grain bullets- but start low as every setup is different.

The fast speeds of 2300 fps make this combo a flat shooter out to 300 yards. The hollow point pistol bullet expands well on big game (as tested) near the 300 yard mark. Energy is close to the heavier rounds that are going slower. Recoil is considerably lower compared to the heavier bullet weights- making it easier to shoot well for some. The bullets are easy to find and cheaper than most of the other popular setups. The sabots have to be ordered from MMP but they are fairly cheap as well. This combo needs to be damp patched and dry patched between shots and the barrel needs to also be cooled off between shots just like others have previously posted. It’s not BH 209 velocities but it’s pretty impressive if it shoots well for you.
I’ve never seen a CVA barrel leak gases as posted. Pretty scary stuff.
This is just another option for those that can’t find blackhorn and/or like a flat shooting combo with lower recoil. And you don’t have to have an ultimate or paramount with this setup. I love the ultimate and paramount and own them but this is another option.