Toyota Bailout

[huntindude]

Toyota has asked the Japanese state run bank for a 2 billion dollar loan ( bailout ) , reports say if the US economy doesn't improve soon so exports resume they'll be back for more.


Today auditors said GM may be beyond saving, if that's true then we need to take a hard look at the situation. if it's not then we have no excuse now to watch them fall, we can't even say " it's all their fault " when Toyota the biggest and supposed best is asking for help, and they'll get anything they want you can take that to the bank. other nations understand the value of jobs, and the economic advantages of producing not just consuming.

So is saving American jobs important or do the Japs have it all wrong too? maybe they should let their auto industry fall and we can all buy rickshaws from China, they may all that's left.

 

[proutdoors]

Japan's economy is doing worse than ours and has been in the tank for almost 2 decades. DO you really want to model them?

As for GM, we gave them billions, and yet they say it is likely they will have to file bankruptcy anyway. So, what was gained by giving them billions already? What would be gained by giving them more to WASTE? All this does is add to the pending hyper-inflation, further devaluing of the dollar, ensuring a world currency in the near future. As the saying goes, "he who controls the currency controls the country/government". Once our monetary system is controlled by global pinheads, kiss most of the freedoms we enjoy goodbye!

PRO

www.oddiction.com

 

[NeMont]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 11:05AM (MST)[p]HD,

At what point do you finally throw in the towel and let GM go into bankruptcy? $40 billion? $100 Billion? What good does it do to borrow money from China to prop up a company that few have faith in it's ability to survive?

That isn't a consumption or production issue. It is letting the system we have had in place for at least 150 years to work.

Saving American jobs is fine but at what costs? It does no good to just throw money at GM just because you like the company.

Toyota is not facing the same issue because they didn't stake the companies future on behemoth SUV's and 4 Door Pickups. I know you like big vehicles but apparently the majority of consumers do not.

In the end it won't matter because the market place will always have more money then any government or central bank. GM would probably do better in bankruptcy then they would by continued bailouts and loans that will never be repaid.

I agree that we need to produce and not just consume. If you are committed to that then you have to be willing to endure the shorter term pain of letting companies fail so that the market can more efficiently allocate capital and labor resources. You cannot just say, "let's produce and not consume" when there has been a consumption binge for the past 20 or 30 years. We have to pay the price for the excesses and one of those prices is letting companies fail.

The Japanese don't have this right, they spent massive amounts of money in the 1990's and their market is still 80% below what it was back then, 15 years later. They didn't let anybody fail and they got the zombie banks and corporations and went through the Japanese lost decade. We are doing the same exact thing by not letting these companies fail and reorganize.

Corporations have been going bankrupt since the begining of time, it isn't anything new and there was always somebody that either picked up the pieces at a discount or figured out a new way to do business.

Propping up GM is horrible economics and even worse morality. In the end all we are going to do is continue to throw good money after bad and the outcome will remain the same, GM will end up in Bankruptcy.

I know you think that all the this government money is necessary to go to GM but is just making the problems bigger and worse then they had to be.

Nemont

 

[huntindude]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 11:46AM (MST)[p]It all boils down to fairness in the market place, you want American companies to paddle their own canoe but accept that foreign competition gets what they want fron their government. do you think this might have something to do with why we're not much more than consumers anymore? if we're not going to give our producers the same perks then we need to have import duties to level the field out.

You want the best of all worlds, what we have now is the result of trying to do that. as far as GM goes if they TRULY are beyond saving then yes let them go. put that money and effort into Ford, if even one auto maker stays here the base for future companies to be born will stay in place. if we let all the sub manufacturers to fail it's doubtful a US auto industry would return given the advantages of being overseas.

 

[NeMont]

HD,

I don't think you sometimes read deeply into what is being said. I can't think of a single person he has suggested that letting GM fail is a good thing. Nearly everyone with some skin in the game has said that letting them go into bankruptcy and letting that system work would be what is best.

They could emerge from Bankruptcy in much better shape, shedding alot of the costs that keep them from being competitive. With a leaner, meaner and more effiencet GM emerging from bankruptcy they would be able to not only compete but perhaps kick a@@ again.

Propping them up just because their products no longer sell is not the answer to anything. Bankruptcy is the mechanism made available to companies who hit upon hard times or guessed wrongly or made bad decisions.

You and the UAW are just going to have to accept the fact that propping up GM is horrible economics and horrible morality and in the end just guarantees a less competive auto industry.

This has happened before many, many times.

Nemont