Trail Cameras

[Beavinaz]

Just read that trail cameras will be banned next year 1/1/22

 

[bigbull]

Just read that trail cameras will be banned next year 1/1/22

Correct. Thank goodness.

 

[AZ100]

This is the best news that I've heard all day.

 

[YumaOutdoorsman]

I feel it's still a grey area the way its written. I wouldn't be shocked to see somebody that doesn't get drawn, go setup trail cameras and then try to sell photos to people for profit.

 

[bigbull]

I feel it's still a grey area the way its written. I wouldn't be shocked to see somebody that doesn't get drawn, go setup trail cameras and then try to sell photos to people for profit.

It's pretty clear that using pics to aid in the take of an animal is illegal whether from your own camera or others. The "grey" area you're talking about is more about how many ways people can try and justify breaking the law.

 

[YumaOutdoorsman]

It's pretty clear that using pics to aid in the take of an animal is illegal whether from your own camera or others. The "grey" area you're talking about is more about how many ways people can try and justify breaking the law.

Don't be shocked to see cameras still up at your favorite waterholes is all I'm saying. I am done with cameras after this year because its not worth a ticket to me but I don't think the camera activity will stop.

 

[bigbull]

Don't be shocked to see cameras still up at your favorite waterholes is all I'm saying. I am done with cameras after this year because its not worth a ticket to me but I don't think the camera activity will stop.

I agree some will continue to use cameras. However, when 98% of the hunters have stopped using cameras and they run into the 2% of people sneaking them by, the cameras won't last long. Whether that ends up with people covering them, pointing them into a bush, breaking them or stealing them (not saying any of that is right or wrong simply what will be happening)

 

[AZMIGHTYMULIES]

Here is the great news ! Just because you can't use Cameras on a Unit you have a tag for , doesn't mean you cannot use your Camera anywhere else . If I'm successful drawing the Tag for 13b this year , I'll be glad to put my Cameras away or set my Cameras only on 13a . However , for what I'm seeing on the Arizona Strip , ill likely turn my Tag in . Conditions are Horrible and seeing alot of skinny , under weight deer . Not good !!!!

 

[CouesFanatic]

I agree some will continue to use cameras. However, when 98% of the hunters have stopped using cameras and they run into the 2% of people sneaking them by, the cameras won't last long. Whether that ends up with people covering them, pointing them into a bush, breaking them or stealing them (not saying any of that is right or wrong simply what will be happening)

They better make sure it's not one of the G&F's 3000 cameras. Or it could be Joe the wildlife watchers camera. Just because the cameras are gone for hunting doesn't mean cameras won't be out. It doesn't justify tampering with other peoples stuff. Anyone covering them up, breaking or stealing them needs to have their head examined or caught red handed by the camera owner or even better the G&F doing a wolf study.

 

[Bluehair]

So, you’re saying this didn’t solve anything? Perfect.

The only way this works is if they get “removed”. Hawkbill, where are you?

 

[elkchaserreturns]

So, you’re saying this didn’t solve anything? Perfect.

The only way this works is if they get “removed”. Hawkbill, where are you?

I agree with you Bluehair! The enforcement side of this is where it is going to get tricky. I hope we don't start hearing about "confrontations" in the woods. I believe that most of us will follow this rule.

 

[Bluehair]

I’m not advocating destroying property, but they could have easily said if they are encountered in the field* they are considered abandoned and can be removed. Enforceability problem solved.

*Except for those properly identified with the required tax stamp.

There isn’t such thing of course, and I’m pretty surprised to see one of these revenue-run enterprises forego the opportunity to sell another license. But I’m glad they did.

 

[heywouldya]

Don't be shocked to see cameras still up at your favorite waterholes is all I'm saying. I am done with cameras after this year because its not worth a ticket to me but I don't think the camera activity will stop.

What's the fine?

 

[hawkbill]

It’s Plastic Trash left in the forest and takes away from my outdoor experience especially when I get up close and read made in China. I also think it a terrible thing to strangle a tree with a cable. If I was down in Arizona I would help you clean up the trash or you could come up to Idaho and try your little game. You are probly one of the guys that pack in t-posts. I hope everyone makes a point of leaving the forest the way you found it, Plastic free, go hunt like your grandpa and have a good time.

 

[elkchaserreturns]

I’m not advocating destroying property, but they could have easily said if they are encountered in the field* they are considered abandoned and can be removed. Enforceability problem solved.

*Except for those properly identified with the required tax stamp.

There isn’t such thing of course, and I’m pretty surprised to see one of these revenue-run enterprises forego the opportunity to sell another license. But I’m glad they did.

I predict there will be clarifications to this rule in the near future. Almost has to be.

 

[elkchaserreturns]

It’s Plastic Trash left in the forest and takes away from my outdoor experience especially when I get up close and read made in China. I also think it a terrible thing to strangle a tree with a cable. If I was down in Arizona I would help you clean up the trash or you could come up to Idaho and try your little game. You are probly one of the guys that pack in t-posts. I hope everyone makes a point of leaving the forest the way you found it, Plastic free, go hunt like your grandpa and have a good time.

I completely agree with you hawkbill. I just hate to think about more confrontations in the woods.

 

[SlowElk]

Anyone have a trail cam that's solar powered, with automatic sends of photos to your android phone? I've got a little cabin build going, and that would be a good thing to have to catch trespassers. I figure the cameras will be cheap, since they're going to outlaw them. And I mean two legged trespassers, not critters.

 

[CouesFanatic]

It’s Plastic Trash left in the forest and takes away from my outdoor experience especially when I get up close and read made in China. I also think it a terrible thing to strangle a tree with a cable. If I was down in Arizona I would help you clean up the trash or you could come up to Idaho and try your little game. You are probly one of the guys that pack in t-posts. I hope everyone makes a point of leaving the forest the way you found it, Plastic free, go hunt like your grandpa and have a good time.

If you think trail cams are trash here, you haven't been down here by the border, in the desert or even the mountain units much. I pick up a truck bed load of trash almost every trip. I've been seeing groups whose whole focus is to clean up the desert. The illegal trash, recreational shooters and lazy campers are the bulk of the problems here. If a trail cam triggers you, you better stay in Idaho because 99% of the trash here isn't even hunters.

 

[CouesFanatic]

I’m not advocating destroying property, but they could have easily said if they are encountered in the field* they are considered abandoned and can be removed. Enforceability problem solved.

*Except for those properly identified with the required tax stamp.

There isn’t such thing of course, and I’m pretty surprised to see one of these revenue-run enterprises forego the opportunity to sell another license. But I’m glad they did.

G&F has no authority to say what is on Forest Service or BLM land. If they could enforce that rule I'm sure they would.

 

[Bluehair]

G&F has no authority to say what is on Forest Service or BLM land. If they could enforce that rule I'm sure they would.

You sure about that? How about your license plate/atv sticker?

 

[SS!]

G&F has no authority to say what is on Forest Service or BLM land. If they could enforce that rule I'm sure they would.

This is wrong 100%.

 

[CouesFanatic]

This is wrong 100%.

How so?

Game and fish regulate the animals and methods of take. They don't regulate how Forest Service and BLM land is used. Thats why the wrote the rule for the intent of harvesting game. They cannot write a rule/law for banning cameras off forest service land. If they want to get cameras 100% off the land that would be up to the Forest Circus and BLM. Explain how I'm wrong here. I'm willing to eat my words if I am.

 

[SS!]

How so?

Game and fish regulate the animals and methods of take. They don't regulate how Forest Service and BLM land is used. Thats why the wrote the rule for the intent of harvesting game. They cannot write a rule/law for banning cameras off forest service land. If they want to get cameras 100% off the land that would be up to the Forest Circus and BLM. Explain how I'm wrong here. I'm willing to eat my words if I am.

???. I thought maybe you were joking but I see you’re serious.

 

[CouesFanatic]

???. I thought maybe you were joking but I see you’re serious.

Looks like you have no explanation? If the G&F could ban them outright why didn't they?

 

[Bluehair]

You can be cited by an AZG&F officer for littering…….or pretty much anything else.

 

[hawkbill]

Just keep leaving them, they will disappear over time.

 

[SS!]

You can be cited by an AZG&F officer for littering…….or pretty much anything else.

He doesn’t get it. I bet he thinks his state issued deer and elk tag is not valid on forest service or BLM land. ???

 

[hawkbill]

You might like these also!

 

[elkchaserreturns]

All AZ Game & Fish Game Wardens are ALEOC certified. They go thru the same police academy as the Police do. CouesFanatic, I believe you are mistaken on this one.

 

[diablo]

I think we’re talking about two or three different things here. I believe Coues is saying the Game and Fish Commission can’t make rules unless they relate to wildlife. That’s correct. Do wardens have the authority to enforce other state laws? Yes. Federal laws? No.

 

[CouesFanatic]

I think we’re talking about two or three different things here. I believe Coues is saying the Game and Fish Commission can’t make rules unless they relate to wildlife. That’s correct. Do wardens have the authority to enforce other state laws? Yes. Federal laws? No.

Exactly. Where did I say they are not trained to enforce other laws? I didn't. All I said was they can't force anyone to remove their cameras, only for take of wildlife. There will still be cameras up and I hope some of the above people get caught red handed with a G&F wolf cam in their hand.
If you want cameras off the land completely that's up to the Forest Service, BLM, ETC. Game and Fish cannot stop anyone from putting cams up. Theres a difference between enforcing laws and creating or writing laws.

 

[BOHNTR]

I think we’re talking about two or three different things here. I believe Coues is saying the Game and Fish Commission can’t make rules unless they relate to wildlife. That’s correct. Do wardens have the authority to enforce other state laws? Yes. Federal laws? No.

They are allowed to enforce some federal statutes, but they are limited.

 

[SS!]

Exactly. Where did I say they are not trained to enforce other laws? I didn't. All I said was they can't force anyone to remove their cameras, only for take of wildlife. There will still be cameras up and I hope some of the above people get caught red handed with a G&F wolf cam in their hand.
If you want cameras off the land completely that's up to the Forest Service, BLM, ETC. Game and Fish cannot stop anyone from putting cams up. Theres a difference between enforcing laws and creating or writing laws.

They can ticket you for using cams during hunting season.

 

[heywouldya]

G&F has no authority to say what is on Forest Service or BLM land. If they could enforce that rule I'm sure they would.

So, F&G only has authority on private ground? I'm pretty sure they can enforce regulation anywhere in the state.

 

[CouesFanatic]

So, F&G only has authority on private ground? I'm pretty sure they can enforce regulation anywhere in the state.

Enforce current laws yes. Create laws about trail cams being on public land no. They cannot stop a liberal from scottsdale running cams to look at wildlife. At least the way things sit with this new law.

 

[CouesFanatic]

They can ticket you for using cams during hunting season.

Under the new regulation ? No they can't. They have to prove you are using for take of wildlife. The season option for cameras was not approved.

 

[SS!]

Under the new regulation ? No they can't. They have to prove you are using for take of wildlife. The season option for cameras was not approved.

ok Karen.

 

[CouesFanatic]

ok Karen.

You have the wrong state. Do you even live here?

 

[diablo]

You have the wrong state man. Do you even live here?

Slightly S is slightly north of AZ…..

 

[Bwht4x4]

Slightly S is slightly north of AZ…..

Slightly north of Montana....

 

[Homer]

Slightly north of Montana....

and slightly south of decent....

 

[Gator]

And way west of the left coast.

 

[SS!]

But too close to California….

 

[Gator]

Yes

 

[105Coues]

I believe the GF went this direction because they are setting the new FIX for all the problems up to fail. This will be a cluster if people decide to destroy or take others property. All that will do is create animosity, and conflicts between hunters and outdoors people at a time when we should all be supportive of each other's freedom. Imagine if someone takes your chit whatever it may be ,camera treestand, blind, whatever. Now everyone you see you will be thinking about who took your chit instead of potentially waving and meeting a new friend. If the stealing and destroying starts it will expand to all types of equipment and create vast problems. This will result in the gf having to outlaw all to fix the new issues which is what they wanted in the first place. There will always be haters of technology whether it is compound bows, r!ngefinders, long range scopes, GPS, atvs. Bottom line if it is legal we should support each other. If you want the law changed advocate it. If you want to be a vigilante badass please move to a city where you can do some good. My 02

 

[SS!]

I believe the GF went this direction because they are setting the new FIX for all the problems up to fail. This will be a cluster if people decide to destroy or take others property. All that will do is create animosity, and conflicts between hunters and outdoors people at a time when we should all be supportive of each other's freedom. Imagine if someone takes your chit whatever it may be ,camera treestand, blind, whatever. Now everyone you see you will be thinking about who took your chit instead of potentially waving and meeting a new friend. If the stealing and destroying starts it will expand to all types of equipment and create vast problems. This will result in the gf having to outlaw all to fix the new issues which is what they wanted in the first place. There will always be haters of technology whether it is compound bows, r!ngefinders, long range scopes, GPS, atvs. Bottom line if it is legal we should support each other. If you want the law changed advocate it. If you want to be a vigilante badass please move to a city where you can do some good. My 02

Personal possessions should not come before the resource. You can’t deny the technology helps in the harvest and targeting of the mature class of mule deer and elk. Which is already a small fraction of the overall population.

The guys who are going to look for any loop hole in the law don’t care about the resources the laws are meant to protect.

 

[elkchaserreturns]

I believe the GF went this direction because they are setting the new FIX for all the problems up to fail. This will be a cluster if people decide to destroy or take others property. All that will do is create animosity, and conflicts between hunters and outdoors people at a time when we should all be supportive of each other's freedom. Imagine if someone takes your chit whatever it may be ,camera treestand, blind, whatever. Now everyone you see you will be thinking about who took your chit instead of potentially waving and meeting a new friend. If the stealing and destroying starts it will expand to all types of equipment and create vast problems. This will result in the gf having to outlaw all to fix the new issues which is what they wanted in the first place. There will always be haters of technology whether it is compound bows, r!ngefinders, long range scopes, GPS, atvs. Bottom line if it is legal we should support each other. If you want the law changed advocate it. If you want to be a vigilante badass please move to a city where you can do some good. My 02

Hello 105Coues,
You make some very valid points.
I have no doubt that the AZ Game & Fish Commission is fully aware of the enforcement challenges this ban is going to cause.
After watching the meeting, and hearing each of the Commission members justification before they cast their vote, I believe that they have their priorities in the right place, and have made the right decision. I got the impression that they get it. The technology has gotten completely out of hand and we need to start somewhere to bring it under control.
I hope so.
I will comply with the trail cam ban, and I trust that most of the folks reading this will as well. Not because we welcome another damn regulation to follow. But because it is the right thing to do.

Elkchaser

 

[Bwht4x4]

Hello 105Coues,
You make some very valid points.
I have no doubt that the AZ Game & Fish Commission is fully aware of the enforcement challenges this ban is going to cause.
After watching the meeting, and hearing each of the Commission members justification before they cast their vote, I believe that they have their priorities in the right place, and have made the right decision. I got the impression that they get it. The technology has gotten completely out of hand and we need to start somewhere to bring it under control.
I hope so.
I will comply with the trail cam ban, and I trust that most of the folks reading this will as well. Not because we welcome another damn regulation to follow. But because it is the right thing to do.

Elkchaser

I support the Commission's decision, but there are so many ways to circumvent the ban. You're still going to see a ton a cameras out there being ran by "non-hunters" that will be secretly sharing the locations of the giant bucks they're finding with their friends and family that have a tag. They should have wrote it to be a complete ban on public lands.

 

[SS!]

Hello 105Coues,
You make some very valid points.
I have no doubt that the AZ Game & Fish Commission is fully aware of the enforcement challenges this ban is going to cause.
After watching the meeting, and hearing each of the Commission members justification before they cast their vote, I believe that they have their priorities in the right place, and have made the right decision. I got the impression that they get it. The technology has gotten completely out of hand and we need to start somewhere to bring it under control.
I hope so.
I will comply with the trail cam ban, and I trust that most of the folks reading this will as well. Not because we welcome another damn regulation to follow. But because it is the right thing to do.

Elkchaser

Well said.

 

[SS!]

I support the Commission's decision, but there are so many ways to circumvent the ban. You're still going to see a ton a cameras out there being ran by "non-hunters" that will be secretly sharing the locations of the giant bucks they're finding with their friends and family that have a tag. They should have wrote it to be a complete ban on public lands.

A complete ban would affect user groups that are not part of the problem. It's like completely banning vehicles to stop drunk driving. Doesn't make sense.

People will police each other. No one said everyone's going to to follow the law. There are always people that break laws. But the majority of people will comply and that is why the law was put in place.

I'm sure there will have to be adjustments made down the road but this is a step in the right direction.

 

[diablo]

I support the Commission's decision, but there are so many ways to circumvent the ban. You're still going to see a ton a cameras out there being ran by "non-hunters" that will be secretly sharing the locations of the giant bucks they're finding with their friends and family that have a tag. They should have wrote it to be a complete ban on public lands.

I doubt it. I suspect that everyone who is abiding by the law will assume (correctly) that any cam on a water source is a hunter’s. Unless it’s a G&F camera - and they’d be smart to mark all theirs.

 

[CouesFanatic]

I doubt it. I suspect that everyone who is abiding by the law will assume (correctly) that any cam on a water source is a hunter’s. Unless it’s a G&F camera - and they’d be smart to mark all theirs.

It can be a hunters and still be legal. I see no issue running a camera in a certain unit as long as I have no tag in that unit. I have some I run in units I have no tag, I just enjoy seeing some big animals on camera year after year. The question I have is if the following year I have a tag in that unit, is the one year old picture aiding in the take of wildlife?

I do think this ban will reduce camera numbers by a lot, but there is a lot of area that is still legal and can be used.

 

[SS!]

It can be a hunters and still be legal. I see no issue running a camera in a certain unit as long as I have no tag in that unit. I have some I run in units I have no tag, I just enjoy seeing some big animals on camera year after year. The question I have is if the following year I have a tag in that unit, is the one year old picture aiding in the take of wildlife?

I do think this ban will reduce camera numbers by a lot, but there is a lot of area that is still legal and can be used.

There’s no hope for you.

 

[diablo]

It can be a hunters and still be legal. I see no issue running a camera in a certain unit as long as I have no tag in that unit. I have some I run in units I have no tag, I just enjoy seeing some big animals on camera year after year. The question I have is if the following year I have a tag in that unit, is the one year old picture aiding in the take of wildlife?

I do think this ban will reduce camera numbers by a lot, but there is a lot of area that is still

The question I have is if the following year I have a tag in that unit, is the one year old picture aiding in the take of wildlife?

Yes

 

[bigbull]

It can be a hunters and still be legal. I see no issue running a camera in a certain unit as long as I have no tag in that unit. I have some I run in units I have no tag, I just enjoy seeing some big animals on camera year after year. The question I have is if the following year I have a tag in that unit, is the one year old picture aiding in the take of wildlife?

I do think this ban will reduce camera numbers by a lot, but there is a lot of area that is still legal and can be used.

You used the camera to find out the animal was there and you came back to the spot due to that information and then killed it. Pretty self explanatory that that would be illegal based off the new law. Which proves the point (because that happens often, not just in the hypothetical here)that there are so many animals found and then killed simply because of trail cameras. More than likely you would have never spent enough time in that unit to find said buck and would have never known to go kill it without the trail cam pic.

 

[CouesFanatic]

You used the camera to find out the animal was there and you came back to the spot due to that information and then killed it. Pretty self explanatory that that would be illegal based off the new law. Which proves the point (because that happens often, not just in the hypothetical here)that there are so many animals found and then killed simply because of trail cameras. More than likely you would have never spent enough time in that unit to find said buck and would have never known to go kill it without the trail cam pic.

I agree with you there.

Ok what if I got a picture of a buck/bull and killed it 20 miles from where I got the picture? Lots of elk guides get pictures of bulls in the summer and end up killing them far away during the rut. I would argue that the camera wasn't aiding in the kill.

 

[CouesFanatic]

There’s no hope for you.

Thanks for the useful discussion.

 

[SS!]

I agree with you there.

Ok what if I got a picture of a buck/bull and killed it 20 miles from where I got the picture? Lots of elk guides get pictures of bulls in the summer and end up killing them far away during the rut. I would argue that the camera wasn't aiding in the kill.

What if you looked at a hunting forum while hunting with trail cam pics posted? What if you accidentally dropped your phone and the video was on and before you found it a bull/buck walked by and now you have video of it? What if your 2nd cousins friend who got a DUI in high school and had 3 kids before he was 21 tells you about a buck his 3rd cousin got on trail camera?

The useful discussion ended when you refuse to understand the law and keep coming up with stupid hypotheticals.

 

[CouesFanatic]

What if you looked at a hunting forum while hunting with trail cam pics posted? What if you accidentally dropped your phone and the video was on and before you found it a bull/buck walked by and now you have video of it? What if your 2nd cousins friend who got a DUI in high school and had 3 kids before he was 21 tells you about a buck his 3rd cousin got on trail camera?

The useful discussion ended when you refuse to understand the law and keep coming up with stupid hypotheticals.

It’s not hypothetical, you don’t think those situations I suggested are going to happen? I guarantee they will.

 

[diablo]

Here’s the Notice of Final Rulemaking in case anyone (who hasn’t already) would like to read it.

https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/archive/Notice-of-Final-Rulemaking-Trail-Camera-Prohibition.pdf

And the specifics: