Trophy rock etc???

pauns08

Active Member
Messages
710
I know baiting like with apple piles and such has been banned but what's the scoop with salt licks and trophy rock and mineral blocks? Can we still use them or not? I can't find in the guidebooks where it says we can't, under the definition bait is says it does not include salt or mineral blocks.
 
I think the definition of "bait" will include "salt licks". It looks like the DWR will post a Q&A section in a month or 2. Hopefully that clears a few things up. What about setting a bait just for entertainment? I've ran trail cameras of 20 years. In those 20 years I've never taken a specific animal because of a trail camera and/or bait. I just find it entertaining to see what I can get on film. With that being said, It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they banned trail cameras and "bait" all together TBH.
 
It seems pretty clear to me since I don't know of any ranchers placing Trophy Rocks for "normal agricultural purposes" and a Trophy Rock is definitely a "nutrient substance" used to "manipulate the behavior of wildlife"...

(i) "Bait" means intentionally placing food or nutrient substances to manipulate the behavior of wildlife for the purpose of taking or attempting to take big game.

(ii) "Bait" does not include A) the use of salt, mineral blocks, or other commonly used types of livestock supplements placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes;


_____________

Trophy Rocks website says it is a natural mineral supplement that provides electrolytes and minerals. It seems clear to me that even a basic salt lick can't get placed unless you're a rancher doing it only for your livestock. It appears only photographing the animals would be legal, but that's just my reading of it.
 
It seems pretty clear to me since I don't know of any ranchers placing Trophy Rocks for "normal agricultural purposes" and a Trophy Rock is definitely a "nutrient substance" used to "manipulate the behavior of wildlife"...

(i) "Bait" means intentionally placing food or nutrient substances to manipulate the behavior of wildlife for the purpose of taking or attempting to take big game.

(ii) "Bait" does not include A) the use of salt, mineral blocks, or other commonly used types of livestock supplements placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes;


_____________

Trophy Rocks website says it is a natural mineral supplement that provides electrolytes and minerals.
Ya I read all that and I agree with you but then I read the part that said bait does not include the use of salt, or mineral blocks which is basically a trophy rock.
 
Ya I read all that and I agree with you but then I read the part that said bait does not include the use of salt, or mineral blocks which is basically a trophy rock.
Gotcha. I guess the ambiguity is whether the salt "placed in the field" refers to the act of placing or the item that is placed.

Regardless, I don't think a Trophy Rock falls under "other commonly used types of livestock supplements."

I see what you're saying about salt for sure. The FAQ will be interesting, I hope they're strict with it, but we'll see.
 
C’mon guys it’s clear as mud. And no, it will not be enforced, simply impossible.
That's what I'm thinking, I'll just stick with my original plans. They say a faq will be posted in July about it but I'm not waiting that long.
 
The Cow Guys Ain't Had To Buy Salt in TARDville for Decades!




Just go find some mineral licks that the cows guys have put out and relocate them to a more convenient area. Problem solved.
Just go find some mineral licks that the cows guys have put out and relocate them to a more convenient area. Problem solved.
 
I'm always fascinated by people who know what the purpose of a law was, then try to find loopholes or exceptions.

The law was created to stop non natural congregation of deer/elk in a location using food or minerals.

So of course we now get the "depends on the definition of "is" guys(Clinton)".

You really don't need a FAQ, to realize what the law wants, and is intending.

This is why proclamation books have to be 50 pages deep.
 
F8E487AF-610D-4070-BE1D-0DF28231930A.jpeg
 
I'm always fascinated by people who know what the purpose of a law was, then try to find loopholes or exceptions.
I was thinking the same thing on the last baiting thread. It's the one part of hunting where people will openly brag about trying to find ways to break/skirt wildlife laws. (And I really don't get the "unenforceable" part. Since when is that the primary reason to not break the law?)

We've all heard other hunters talking/joking about accidently dumping salt on the ground, putting licks out for pictures but planning to hunt the area, moving a ranchers mineral block, etc...

These are people that would never say that about shooting out of season or at night. It's a weird dynamic.
 
I was thinking the same thing on the last baiting thread. It's the one part of hunting where people will openly brag about trying to find ways to break/skirt wildlife laws. (And I really don't get the "unenforceable" part. Since when is that the primary reason to not break the law?)

We've all heard other hunters talking/joking about accidently dumping salt on the ground, putting licks out for pictures but planning to hunt the area, moving a ranchers mineral block, etc...

These are people that would never say that about shooting out of season or at night. It's a weird dynamic.


We better find something to disagree about or the fellas will start gossiping ???
 
Ya I read all that and I agree with you but then I read the part that said bait does not include the use of salt, or mineral blocks which is basically a trophy rock.

You have to finish the sentence, though. Bait doesn’t include those things when...


(ii) "Bait" does not include:
(A) the use of salt, mineral blocks, or other commonly used types of livestock supplements placed in the field by agricultural producers for normal agricultural purposes;
 
So if I wanted to hang cameras and use mineral (to get an animal to stop in front of a camera) in a unit several hours away from the unit that I drew a tag for (removing the purpose to take wildlife or attempt to) is that still illegal?
The purpose isn’t to take wildlife. It’s purpose is to find prospect units for future endeavors. Call it wildlife research.
Of course I wouldn’t use minerals or cameras that year if I chose that unit and drew out.
Thoughts?
 
So if I wanted to hang cameras and use mineral (to get an animal to stop in front of a camera) in a unit several hours away from the unit that I drew a tag for (removing the purpose to take wildlife or attempt to) is that still illegal?
The purpose isn’t to take wildlife. It’s purpose is to find prospect units for future endeavors. Call it wildlife research.
Of course I wouldn’t use minerals or cameras that year if I chose that unit and drew out.
Thoughts?
What you're describing is legal to do.
 
If there’s any doubt in what the law says, one why or the other and you’re determined to put “stuff” out there, a Judge will dang sure explain it to ya. You still may not comprehension it or you might disagree with the outcome, one way or the other but......... it won’t take the Court long to decide.

If it means that much to you, go for it and see how it goes....... then you can speak with some degree of authority.
 
If there’s any doubt in what the law says, one why or the other and you’re determined to put “stuff” out there, a Judge will dang sure explain it to ya. You still may not comprehension it or you might disagree with the outcome, one way or the other but......... it won’t take the Court long to decide.

If it means that much to you, go for it and see how it goes....... then you can speak with some degree of authority.
What the heck are you talking about.
 
I don't have a deer tag this year, I'm just a granola munching yuppy that likes to get pictures of deers and elks. I can even fit 4 bushels of apples in my Subaru. Its sure nice not being a hunter this year and having all these bans to worry about.
 
How is anyone suppose to know if a trail camera is being used to take or attempt to take wildlife?
I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having the camera or bait sight registered. Then the law would know if you had a tag for that area or not and if it's even a concern at all.
 
One could argue that the dude still baiting and/or trying to find a loop hole is our own worst enemy, no?
Another could argue that our own worst enemy is the state representatives that we are voting in who don’t care about the public’s opinion that they are representing. They had their mind made up on how this was gonna go before the public was even made aware of the baiting ban. No one got their voice heard on that one. No one. That’s by far a much bigger enemy than someone dumping salt.
 
No one got their voice heard on that one. No one.

This is factually inaccurate. This bill started out very differently than it ended up in its final form. People that spoke out and got involved (not just whined on the internet) actually made a difference.

Just because something didn't go the way you wanted doesn't mean nobody listened. There was a ton of public input on this bill, and it changed accordingly. But if your voice is only whining on the internet, then yeah, that won't ever be heard. You're right.
 
This is factually inaccurate. This bill started out very differently than it ended up in its final form. People that spoke out and got involved (not just whined on the internet) actually made a difference.

Just because something didn't go the way you wanted doesn't mean nobody listened. There was a ton of public input on this bill, and it changed accordingly. But if your voice is only whining on the internet, then yeah, that won't ever be heard. You're right.
That's not fact. This bill bypassed the Board, bypassed the public, AND the loudest whiners actually got their way. Not necessarily the majority. This was Casey Sniders bill, not the general public. As I mentioned before this opened the door to push personal agendas without public vote, or input.
 
This is factually inaccurate. This bill started out very differently than it ended up in its final form. People that spoke out and got involved (not just whined on the internet) actually made a difference.

Just because something didn't go the way you wanted doesn't mean nobody listened. There was a ton of public input on this bill, and it changed accordingly. But if your voice is only whining on the internet, then yeah, that won't ever be heard. You're right.
Not really. All that changed was the DWR gets to figure out how to regulate trail cams instead of banning them completely. Snider pushed it a long ways before the public got any input. And by that time they had enough momentum to push through most of their agenda before the public got any say. There is a process set in place for these types of issues, and they completely bypassed it, giving the hunters very little room to share their opinions and let their voices be heard.
 
The law, as currently constituted, is about big game baiting, not trail cams. Stay tuned on trail cams, the Wildlife Board will address that one soon enough.
I’m completely aware of that. However, the way that the law is currently written, concerning baiting, is written horribly. In my personal situation concerning the use of minerals, being associated with the use of trail cameras, to observe wildlife to help me make a decision about future hunting endeavors. By definition of the law, isn’t illegal.
I didn’t write the law concerning minerals and baiting! But I don’t believe someone using mineral to get an animal to stop for a photo, in a unit that I don’t even have a tag for, would be considered an attempt to take wildlife.
I’m not looking for loopholes within the written law. I just think the law could be written a lot better to clear up confusion.
As to the comments regarding who’s the worst enemy…..we are!
Assuming another hunter is trying to bypass the law. There’s no denying that we as hunters turn on eachother and evidence in these forums are examples of it.
I don’t need trail cameras, nor mineral to find animals. I simply enjoy to observe what May cross paths with a camera I hang up. But I don’t think asking questions and trying to get clarification should be equated to a hunter trying to skirt the letter of the law.
The written law says bait used “to take or attempt to take”
When does taking a pic mean you’re trying to kill an animal?
 
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Here is verbiage straight out of the book. "At the direction of the Utah legislature" this may come out before the seasons start. Don't think for a second the surveys will hold any clout on what a politician will push.

IMG_8144.jpg
 
The language, the way it's written, is a little goofy for sure. Obviously as someone else already mentioned, we all know what the purpose of the law is so trying to poke holes in it is also kind of goofy IMO.

That said, they could stand to clarify a few things, and one that comes to mind because it happened to me twice last week is this...couple water sources that I've hunted for years, plan to continue doing so. Hike in to see if they still exist (side note, yikes on the drought, holy crap), and they are both baited with salt. By law, I can't hunt those water sources any longer even though it's not my salt. I'm sure I won't be alone in this one, it's going to happen to many people.
 
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WB IS CONTROLLED BY A SINGLE LOBBY GROUP.

This DWR was pushing action. The majority of those in comments pushed for action. But when the WB represents the COMMERCIAL hunting in the state, not the VAST majority who aren't, then it goes elsewhere.

I'm not wild about that, BUT then I'm not wild about $fw controlling the WB.

The same guys crying about "shouldn't be politicians deciding", are the same ones who sit on their azz while $fw gets a solid line of dudes on the WB.

INCLUDING NOW. Bet NONE of you called the governor's office to oppose Thurgood. Nope, you'll sit on MM bitching, while the backroom crap happens yearly.

I called and opposed. I called my rep and supported the ban. I called Casey to thank him, while explaining my uncomfortableness with the legislative clowns involvement. Which, he agreed, while pointing out the DWR wanted action, but it was stonewalled.

If your pissed, CALL one of the "premier" guides in the state that took "a little salt", and turned it into semis of apples. Call the WB and ***** about their constant support of Commercial hunting. That's where the blame lies.
 
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WB IS CONTROLLED BY A SINGLE LOBBY GROUP.

This DWR was pushing action. The majority of those in comments pushed for action. But when the WB represents the COMMERCIAL hunting in the state, not the VAST majority who aren't, then it goes elsewhere.

I'm not wild about that, BUT then I'm not wild about $fw controlling the WB.

The same guys crying about "shouldn't be politicians deciding", are the same ones who sit on their azz while $fw gets a solid line of dudes on the WB.

INCLUDING NOW. Bet NONE of you called the governor's office to oppose Thurgood. Nope, you'll sit on MM bitching, while the backroom crap happens yearly.

I called and opposed. I called my rep and supported the ban. I called Casey to thank him, while explaining my uncomfortableness with the legislative clowns involvement. Which, he agreed, while pointing out the DWR wanted action, but it was stonewalled.

If your pissed, CALL one of the "premier" guides in the state that took "a little salt", and turned it into semis of apples. Call the WB and ***** about their constant support of Commercial hunting. That's where the blame lies.
Oh I'm sure Casey agreed with you meanwhile he's setting up his next personal agenda item. Of course he agreed Hoss he's a politician! He will agree with you and do the complete opposite.
 
Oh I'm sure Casey agreed with you meanwhile he's setting up his next personal agenda item. Of course he agreed Hoss he's a politician! He will agree with you and do the complete opposite.


What are $fw? How many RMEF, DU, BHA dudes have sat on WB? How many $fw?
 
What are $fw? How many RMEF, DU, BHA dudes have sat on WB? How many $fw?
The only public input Casey got prior to writing that bill was exactly what you mentioned. Guys whining, you probably being one of them whining about WLH dumping apples on the Henries and Pauns. Units where the average Joe may hunt once in their life. And you're thanking him for not even looking at it from a public standpoint???? Your question above has no relevancy it bypassed the Board it doesn't matter who's sitting in the on the board. It's all the shady deals going on behind the scenes, and you thank the guy for it hahaha! Unreal!
 
The only public input Casey got prior to writing that bill was exactly what you mentioned. Guys whining, you probably being one of them whining about WLH dumping apples on the Henries and Pauns. Units where the average Joe may hunt once in their life. And you're thanking him for not even looking at it from a public standpoint???? Your question above has no relevancy it bypassed the Board it doesn't matter who's sitting in the on the board. It's all the shady deals going on behind the scenes, and you thank the guy for it hahaha! Unreal!


"Shady deals". That's HILLARIOUS.

YA. Dudes get OIL on the Pains and one of $fw deep pocket yearly fly ins gas the place covered with spotters, finders fees and tons of apples. Hard to believe guys were bent.

But here's a dirty secret. I found bait on North Slope of the Uintas. Hardly a LE hunt. And rumor is, from a guide.

"Shady deals", from the group who pioneered them. What is it "The Don" does for a living?
 
"Shady deals". That's HILLARIOUS.

YA. Dudes get OIL on the Pains and one of $fw deep pocket yearly fly ins gas the place covered with spotters, finders fees and tons of apples. Hard to believe guys were bent.

But here's a dirty secret. I found bait on North Slope of the Uintas. Hardly a LE hunt. And rumor is, from a guide.

"Shady deals", from the group who pioneered them. What is it "The Don" does for a living?
I'm not defending SFW or any other organization. I'm defending the voice of the public hunter. You thanking Sneider for opening up the can of worms he has is laughable. "Hey thanks Casey for pushing your personal agenda down everybody else's throat" haha good call Hoss
 
The language, the way it's written, is a little goofy for sure. Obviously as someone else already mentioned, we all know what the purpose of the law is so trying to poke holes in it is also kind of goofy IMO.

That said, they could stand to clarify a few things, and one that comes to mind because it happened to me twice last week is this...couple water sources that I've hunted for years, plan to continue doing so. Hike in to see if they still exist (side note, yikes on the drought, holy crap), and they are both baited with salt. By law, I can't hunt those water sources any longer even though it's not my salt. I'm sure I won't be alone in this one, it's going to happen to many people.
Id get the fish and game involved immediately. Public land shouldn’t be off limits to guys who are hunting legally, just cuz someone else is choosing to ignore the law
 
I'm not defending SFW or any other organization. I'm defending the voice of the public hunter. You thanking Sneider for opening up the can of worms he has is laughable. "Hey thanks Casey for pushing your personal agenda down everybody else's throat" haha good call Hoss

As opposed to Bateman or Heaton? (Guides).

Open you eyes
 
The majority of the public (and hunters) are in favor of banning bait as evidenced by multiple surveys, including one conducted on this site. It violates the principles of fair chase and needed to go away.
 
The majority of the public (and hunters) are in favor of banning bait as evidenced by multiple surveys, including one conducted on this site. It violates the principles of fair chase and needed to go away.
So does a centerfire rifle and a 4x4. But I bet you’d hate to see that become illegal
 
Neither do you if you think accessing places with use of something other than your own 2 feet and using a weapon other than a stick bow is “fair”.

Always fun listening to dudes using GPS, wind meters, ballistic computers, and range finders try to defend that as being the same as any other rifle.

Even funnier they try doing so on a forum, where we all own and shoot rifles, therefore knowing the difference.

Yet often we find those same guys, again on a hunting forum, trying to convince OTHER HUNTERS, that bait isn't giving them advantage because "we still have to find them". Somehow thinking they convince other HUNTERS of things being the opposite of what we all know.

Same is true of cams and the "never killed anything on my cam" line that is spewed in defense of cams during seasons. We all know better, if for no other reason than we've all seen cam pics of dead animals. But we are supposed to pretend different.

If I'm betting, the LR, Cam during seasons, bait guys, are all the same guys
 
Always fun listening to dudes using GPS, wind meters, ballistic computers, and range finders try to defend that as being the same as any other rifle.

Even funnier they try doing so on a forum, where we all own and shoot rifles, therefore knowing the difference.

Yet often we find those same guys, again on a hunting forum, trying to convince OTHER HUNTERS, that bait isn't giving them advantage because "we still have to find them". Somehow thinking they convince other HUNTERS of things being the opposite of what we all know.

Same is true of cams and the "never killed anything on my cam" line that is spewed in defense of cams during seasons. We all know better, if for no other reason than we've all seen cam pics of dead animals. But we are supposed to pretend different.

If I'm betting, the LR, Cam during seasons, bait guys, are all the same guys
Hey Hoss,
how many cameras have you used each year for the past 15 years?
I'd like an honest answer?
 
I own 2. Got them 2yrs ago from camofire.

First year they sat on some private property watching cats on a seep spring.

This year they are sitting on a shelf in my gun room.

Not sure if they will leave, but they might get sat out on that same property gate, or one of it's indian campgrounds, seems someone doesn't respect private property.

No one I hunt deer with has cams.

1 guy I hunt elk with does, although he's down to 1 as cam thief's are thief's.


Honest enough?
 
Hey Hoss,
how many cameras have you used each year for the past 15 years?
I'd like an honest answer?


Even more. I have OnX on my phone. I have a couple of radios, we use to coordinate meet ups(I hunt deep timber, spotters and coordinating game movement ain't a possibility).

I have a Nikon range finder I use for my bow, which has trophy ridge 5pin (65lbs)

My scope on my 06' is Vari X (1990)

I have Vortex Diamondback 10x42 binos
Diamond back spotter


This is a fun game, maybe every guy who comments needs to be honest about what they have, it might be eye opening to some.

I've never baited. I do know where salt licks are, so do hundreds of cows.
 
Even more. I have OnX on my phone. I have a couple of radios, we use to coordinate meet ups(I hunt deep timber, spotters and coordinating game movement ain't a possibility).

I have a Nikon range finder I use for my bow, which has trophy ridge 5pin (65lbs)

My scope on my 06' is Vari X (1990)

I have Vortex Diamondback 10x42 binos
Diamond back spotter


This is a fun game, maybe every guy who comments needs to be honest about what they have, it might be eye opening to some.

I've never baited. I do know where salt licks are, so do hundreds of cows.
You seemed to dodge a simple question. How many cameras have you personally set up and used in the past 15 years?
 
That said, they could stand to clarify a few things, and one that comes to mind because it happened to me twice last week is this...couple water sources that I've hunted for years, plan to continue doing so. Hike in to see if they still exist (side note, yikes on the drought, holy crap), and they are both baited with salt. By law, I can't hunt those water sources any longer even though it's not my salt. I'm sure I won't be alone in this one, it's going to happen to many people.

If you’re worried about being able to hunt that area, why not just move the salt?

As for those saying this “bypassed” the Wildlife Board...you need to understand how this works. The board ONLY has the power and authority the legislature gives it. The legislature is absolutely within their prerogative to pass laws regarding wildlife or any other issue. And every single bill proposed at the legislature starts as someone’s pet project. That’s how it works. And if you think people didn’t make their voices heard on this, then that tells me you weren’t involved. Complaining on the internet isn’t being involved, nor is is it making your voice heard.

No wonder some have the perspectives they do. I’m glad there are those that understand the system and actually got involved, though. It’s good to have public involvement.
 
See the post above that one you quoted ridge. I think he was pretty clear.
Oops, I skipped right past that one and was looking at his second post. Just what I thought. I love it when someone gives an opinion on a product they haven't used on a regular basis but pretend to know all about it. Just because some dude down at the coffee shop personal hates that product and had all kinds of negative things to say about it but I guess that's more believable than hearing from someone that knows the product inside and out.
 
I think more guys would be honest about their bating habits than their baiting habits.

Everybody that I know that baits tries to hide it, then says it doesn't work anyway, then tries to defend it like they'll never kill an animal again without it.

Maybe Utahns really are Utards if they are so dependent on bait to hunt when the surrounding states get along just fine without it. Are we really that bad of hunters?
 
Oops, I skipped right past that one and was looking at his second post. Just what I thought. I love it when someone gives an opinion on a product they haven't used on a regular basis but pretend to know all about it. Just because some dude down at the coffee shop personal hates that product and had all kinds of negative things to say about it but I guess that's more believable than hearing from someone that knows the product inside and out.

When it comes to public resources, I think the opinions of both people you describe are essential. I don’t use cameras, but I can identify 11 cameras on a single water source is a problem not only for hunting, but for the animals in general. But I also want to hear from folks like you that use them and see where we can draw the line at an appropriate place. We clearly have created an issue with bait and cameras. I don’t want to see any of it banned entirely, but we clearly aren’t being responsible ourselves, so where is the proper balance? Well, that’s the million dollar question.

And Grizz, it always strikes me how many people use the completely ineffective methods of baiting and cameras for no reason, since they don’t work at all. (As they tell it...)
 
Oops, I skipped right past that one and was looking at his second post. Just what I thought. I love it when someone gives an opinion on a product they haven't used on a regular basis but pretend to know all about it. Just because some dude down at the coffee shop personal hates that product and had all kinds of negative things to say about it but I guess that's more believable than hearing from someone that knows the product inside and out.


Newsflash. Apples aren't new technology, been known for hundred years if you find apple orchards, you find deer

Same as cams. Running 100, or 2, they work the same
 
Interesting the biggest whiners admit they never bait and don't run cameras, but they know everything about it and what's best for all of us. The worst kind of know it all is the one that knows nothing.
 
If you’re worried about being able to hunt that area, why not just move the salt?
For sure I could do that. There were also cameras on both sites, I assume belonging to the person who set the salt. Maybe not but probably a pretty safe assumption, so the guy sees me on his camera moving his salt, I'm also hunting the area, have a stand there at the water...and then you've got that can of worms opened up. Just kinda messy, this whole thing. Not opposed to no baiting, totally fine with that.
 
Interesting the biggest whiners admit they never bait and don't run cameras, but they know everything about it and what's best for all of us. The worst kind of know it all is the one that knows nothing.


When your a buisness owner you spend a lot of time on efficiency and cost.

The most successful outfitters in Utah run hundreds of cams, and tons of bait. Because it is efficient and effective, despite added cost.

The exact same reason YOU DO.

Otherwise your an absolute moron to burn $3.35 unleaded, and $$$$ for cams and bait, that do nothing. If they do nothing, why does it matter?

As to a couple whiners? The DWR was pushing bait bans, especially the Southern office

Ever notice there are piles of pics of deer killed by outfitters all over Utah. And piles of pics of bait piles all over, yet not a single pic of a deer laying dead next to a pile of apples. I wonder why
 
This
When your a buisness owner you spend a lot of time on efficiency and cost.

The most successful outfitters in Utah run hundreds of cams, and tons of bait. Because it is efficient and effective, despite added cost.

The exact same reason YOU DO.

Otherwise your an absolute moron to burn $3.35 unleaded, and $$$$ for cams and bait, that do nothing. If they do nothing, why does it matter?

As to a couple whiners? The DWR was pushing bait bans, especially the Southern office

Ever notice there are piles of pics of deer killed by outfitters all over Utah. And piles of pics of bait piles all over, yet not a single pic of a deer laying dead next to a pile of apples. I wonder why
. This thread is not about using a big pile of apples but is more about a guy wanting to put down a pound of mineral salt on a game trail to stop the game for a few seconds to get a clear picture while scouting. I have no problem with any type of bait, including salt to be removed 5-7 days before the archery season starts. Big piles of apples are a problem but a little mineral salt on a trail or in a small meadow is not a big deal. Yes, it does help for scouting purposes but I guarantee very few deer or elk are killed during hunting season over a salt block. With all my experience, most bucks and bulls stop using salt on a regular basis by early August.
 
Interesting the biggest whiners admit they never bait and don't run cameras, but they know everything about it and what's best for all of us. The worst kind of know it all is the one that knows nothing.

The only whining I see is those saying their voice wasn't heard when all they did was complain on the internet after the fact.
 
Interesting the biggest whiners admit they never bait and don't run cameras, but they know everything about it and what's best for all of us. The worst kind of know it all is the one that knows nothing.
I’m not sure a person has to have extensive experience using bait or cameras (or airplanes, powered-parachutes, internet-controlled rifles, etc) to have an opinion on whether it is fair chase or should be legal!!
 
This . This thread is not about using a big pile of apples but is more about a guy wanting to put down a pound of mineral salt on a game trail to stop the game for a few seconds to get a clear picture while scouting. I have no problem with any type of bait, including salt to be removed 5-7 days before the archery season starts. Big piles of apples are a problem but a little mineral salt on a trail or in a small meadow is not a big deal. Yes, it does help for scouting purposes but I guarantee very few deer or elk are killed during hunting season over a salt block. With all my experience, most bucks and bulls stop using salt on a regular basis by early August.


First, if a dude ran a cam or 2, over a handful of salt, not a single person would have issues, including myself. But we both know that's not the issue.

Further, I don't disagree, the animals I've seen licking cattle salt are generally in velvet, generally growing antlers still.

But how do we regulate that?

What constitutes "a little salt"? What constitutes "a few cams"?

I think cams banned from 1st day of a season, to last day of a season is fair. Basically mid Aug Jan.

But bait, changes patterns.
I used to get cows to walk up to me with a handful of grain, while the mobile slaughter guy, put a gun to it's head and killed it. Pavlov's(spelling) dog.

If you find a cattleman's salt block and sit it, good for you. Same as if you find a spring, or acorns.

But that's not what is happening, we both know it. Further, my 2 cams are shitty clearance sale Bushnell cams. And they take pics very rapidly. Better cams will catch images without salt.

But AGAIN. Average dude, with a couple cams, and a little salt, ain't the issue. Dudes with dozens, and bags if salt or piles of apples, are. Even worse, the commercial guys with hundreds of cams, and semi loads
 
Even more. I have OnX on my phone. I have a couple of radios, we use to coordinate meet ups(I hunt deep timber, spotters and coordinating game movement ain't a possibility).

I have a Nikon range finder I use for my bow, which has trophy ridge 5pin (65lbs)

My scope on my 06' is Vari X (1990)

I have Vortex Diamondback 10x42 binos
Diamond back spotter


This is a fun game, maybe every guy who comments needs to be honest about what they have, it might be eye opening to some.

I've never baited. I do know where salt licks are, so do hundreds of cows.
I have two cameras. Bought two years ago. (2 seasons) I’ve used them in conjunction with a friend who has two cameras. All placed on public land with a total of 5 small bags of critter lick. However, my cameras were pulled before archery season last year. No lock boxes have ever been used. (You find em, you can keep them cuz you earned em)
Sure I can find these deer during the summer and put my spotter to them from 1k yards. But the picture just isn’t quite the same when my trail cameras captures it from 10-50 feet away.
I still haven’t killed any of the deer that I get pics of. Even while using critter lick.
Most of the time, when deer do come into the lick, they browse at it for a moment and move on. These deer have about a 1 mile sq summer range that involves two canyons. I’ve scouted/hunted this unit over 10 years while averaging probably around 50 miles of scouting from June-Mid August each year.
my cameras are hung up now after a 7.5 mile hike last week. (No bait/critter lick) Plenty of snow up there but melting fast. Haven’t decided how long I’ll keep them hanging up this year but my deer tag is in a unit 3-4 hours away which I’ve never put my boots on the ground on. I’ll scout it in person while I pray my cameras get photos of a handful of deer that I’m interested in seeing.
My trail cam footage might play a pivotal role in determining where I want to use my dedicated points for the years 2022-2024.
Honest enough for you?
If the state makes trail cameras illegal, I’ll honor that. If the state continues to punish the good because of a few bad, I’ll honor it. If I have to be satisfied with a phoneskope image from 1k yards away of the particular deer I’m interested in, without the use of cameras or critter lick, so be it. Will I ever kill any of the deer that I get camera pictures of? Probably not.
Now I’ve scoured these forums long enough to see that you and I have shared some viewpoints on certain topics. But there’s plenty of garbage spewed on these forums that always seem to remind me why I don’t spend much time here anymore.
So please continue to show your true colors by making assumptions and judgment about your claims to know what motives other hunters have. Because the more you type on your PC, the more others see how clearly wrong you are.
 
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Maybe someone will develop a blow dart gun that will shoot tiny gps trackers. GPS collars will become the past! Baiting and cameras will be outdated. You all are already talking about heat seeking bullets and such. As if you are afraid the state would ever allow it. Will there always be a few bad apples that do things illegally? Absolutely
Yet where do we lay our trust to the state to make common sense laws/regulations regardless of technological advances. Where do you draw the line in the sand regarding allowing a few bad people ruin things for those who know how to police themselves?
 
Spoiler alert: People do not police themselves. It's why our code books are volumes upon volumes. People, left to their own devices, will spoil the entire planet and our existence.

Think of the move The Purge, but only without limits put on it by an R rating.
I would agree that the majority don't police themselves yet there are some who do. Still didn’t answer the question. How do you?
We can’t regulate ourselves to oblivion (with little to no enforcement) and expect much to change!
I enjoy the photography of animals just as much or more than hunting them.
But it’s undeniable that the aspect of being able to police ourselves within the compounds of the law is what attracts people to hunt also. A certain way for one person may not be a practice for another hunter. But it’s undeniable that those compounds are continuously and consistently shrinking.
 
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Spoiler alert: People do not police themselves. It's why our code books are volumes upon volumes. People, left to their own devices, will spoil the entire planet and our existence.

Think of the move The Purge, but only without limits put on it by an R rating.
I agree. Google

"Tragedy of the commons"​

 
I’ll chime in. Before selling some property on the Manti unit I spent a year baiting with trail cameras to find out the age range of deer on the property. I was there most weekends and had a few cams setup.

Caught a couple trespassers, small bucks, one decent buck, and the occasional elk. They were all nocturnal when they visited for the most part but it gave me a good idea on future hunt plans.

After that year the cams came down so did the bait. I used those salt pellets you can get at the feed store as opposed to salt licks on the recommendation of a guide I know, and the occasional grain.

I did have a nice buck that hit my cameras from time to time.

The land was my base camp as I was after a nice buck I’d found scouting off the skyline. Never did kill a buck off the land ended up getting another buck off the skyline. Was it worth it to find out the class of animals on the land yes. Was it fun? Not for hunting as I liked the photos of the animals I’d get off the cams.

I would do it again on a new tract of land to find out what animals are using the land in a heart beat. Hell if I seen something worth shooting I might even consider hunting for that animal.

This was a private land deal though and I haven’t placed a camera or bait on public lands. But I see the worth and benefit in doing so on land you own.

just my $0.02
 
Ran across this. It answers a few questions.

 
Well, this confirms that a hunter placing salt or mineral blocks is illegal.

Screenshot_20210701-173736_Samsung Internet.jpg


I sure hope that hunters follow the law and don't make themselves poachers just looking for a loophole.
 

Can I bait during the summer months while scouting an area I plan to hunt in the fall?​

Yes, in many circumstances you can. Before your hunting season begins, the bait must be removed. Just make sure the area where the bait was placed is no longer luring big game animals to that location. Important: The area is still considered to be baited if it's manipulating the big game animal's behavior.

Can I bait big game if I don’t plan to hunt or have a permit?​

Yes, the prohibition on baiting only applies to big game hunting activities. It is illegal to use bait while hunting — or attempting to hunt — big game animals. Using bait to simply view or photograph wildlife is acceptable under the law.

So baiting during the summer for scouting / camera purposes is legal?
 
I was just at Ace Hardware in Cedar City yesterday and saw a whole bunch of DeerCaine, Mineralized salt bricks and other edible wildlife stuff still on their shelves. When I told the archery clerk that it was now illegal, he said, "Not really. It's minerals.!" I didn't check our local Walmart, IFA, CAL-Ranch, Sportsman's Warehouse, or Ron's Sporting Goods, but the last time I was in those places less than a month ago, they also still had some. I guess the Southern Region CO's are gonna be busy!
 
Did you not read the DWR FAQ posted above? Placing salt/minerals is clearly legal to do pre-season and for scouting/camera purposes. There is no reason for those stores to remove it from their shelves as it is legal to use. It becomes illegal once you start actually hunting
 

Can I bait during the summer months while scouting an area I plan to hunt in the fall?​

Yes, in many circumstances you can. Before your hunting season begins, the bait must be removed. Just make sure the area where the bait was placed is no longer luring big game animals to that location. Important: The area is still considered to be baited if it's manipulating the big game animal's behavior.
 
I was just at Ace Hardware in Cedar City yesterday and saw a whole bunch of DeerCaine, Mineralized salt bricks and other edible wildlife stuff still on their shelves. When I told the archery clerk that it was now illegal, he said, "Not really. It's minerals.!" I didn't check our local Walmart, IFA, CAL-Ranch, Sportsman's Warehouse, or Ron's Sporting Goods, but the last time I was in those places less than a month ago, they also still had some. I guess the Southern Region CO's are gonna be busy!
I know of an outfitter that will probably be calling that same clerk for his questions on hunting regs.
 
Did you not read the DWR FAQ posted above? Placing salt/minerals is clearly legal to do pre-season and for scouting/camera purposes. There is no reason for those stores to remove it from their shelves as it is legal to use. It becomes illegal once you start actually hunting
Yes, I read it several times, and whether it is used legally or not, the CO's are gonna be busy checking on it, whereas they didn't have to do that before this law passed!
 
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