Unit 17 Elk 2nd Muzzleloader

[gfontela]

I was lucky enough to draw this tag this year and am really excited. The hunt dates are 10/24-10/28. As I'm in Florida with limited time off of work I won't have a chance to scout the unit other then a day or two before the 5 day season opens. I've already started doing everything I can to get physically ready for the hunt (considering the flat land I have to train!) as I've heard that the mountains there can be pretty rugged and unforgiving.

Anyways, I was hoping someone familiar with the unit might be able to give me any sort of advice or pointers that could help on the hunt and point me in the right direction. I'll definitely be taking my 15s on a tripod and might take my spotting scope depending on if I think it will be helpful.

Gaston

 

[loh outfitters]

congratulations on the draw! 17 is pretty rough and has two different wilderness areas laying within the unit. the unit is good throughout, but if you had on x highly recommend it. That time of year bulls are likely going to be higher and pulling off the cows, that being said be prepared to do a lot of glassing so spotting scope would be recommended. The San Mateo mountains and Magdalena you mountain range are the two mountain ranges that make up 17. Both mountain ranges can produce trophy class bulls. One more thing as that it is a primitive unit only so would recommend a long range muzzleloader.

best of luck ,
Love of the hunt outfitters

 

[BUGLEnmIN]

The post above sums it up good. IDK what type of bulls you've killed, or are looking for ,but you drew a unit that holds good elk ,good trophy quality . Might take a couple days to acclimate to the mountains and elevation. Good luck keep us posted.

 

[gfontela]

I will have a muzzleloader where I will be comfortable to at least 400 yards, hopefully 500 depending how dialed in I can get it. I noticed that the mountain ranges seem to have a pretty good road system (other then in wilderness areas). Would I have better luck on this hunt getting a mile or two away from drive-able roads to high points and glassing from there, or it shouldn't matter too much?

I've actually never killed an elk before and only been on 1 elk hunt. I would be ecstatic if I kill a bull that's 280 plus. Not looking for a giant!

 

[mozey]

Primitive meaning there aren't any rifle hunts for bulls.

I second loh's recommendation for a long-range muzzleloader if you're into increasing your odds for success in that particular unit.

My experience in the unit is a little dated, but if you shoot me a pm I'll share a couple areas where you might start looking.

 

[mozey]

So after reading your follow-up post, I would suggest you study the effective range of your bullet/powder combination for elk. Elk are very tough animals. It's one thing to be able to hit one at 500 yards (they're a big target). but it's another thing for a muzzleloader bullet to still be lethal once it travels that far. In my humble opinion, you'll want to still be packing at least 1,500 foot lbs of energy, and also traveling at a high enough velocity that it will still expand as designed when it makes contact. That will vary per projectile. So even if you can hit an elk at 500 yards, your maximum effective range might be limited to 300 or less...

 

[gfontela]

Great points on the foot pounds of energy. I'll still need to test the velocity of my muzzleloader once I get it back from my gunsmith, but assuming I get the velocity I'm expecting, I should have 1500 plus foot Ibs of energy at 8000 feet elevation out to about 450 yards. Hopefully my muzzleloader performs as expected, if not I'll adjust my max range accordingly.

 

[efnm]

I'm a Socorro native (town on east edge of unit). Be prepared to to hunt up the mountain on loose scree or anklebreaker rocks, especially if you are hunting the Magdalenas. It is steep and nasty and will be tough for you to prepare while in FL. The San Mateos are typically easier but have their rough sections, too. A lot of the good bulls will be in there or far back enough that the majority of hunters won't want to walk in to them.

Outside of the hunters on this forum, most NM hunters are road hunters and that means you can quickly get away from pressure if you are willing to hike up or out. And I don't mean 5 miles back in, I mean 1.

Verizon is about your only hope of cell signal.

Finally, it's looking like it could be a dry summer so water will be key more than ever.

Good luck! I hope to draw this backyard hunt some day but can only seem to draw cows here and nothing this year. It's great to hear a motivated hunter got a tag.

P.S. 400+ yards with a ML. Wow!

 

[throwfar]

If I were you I would look from Bull Canyon to Hidden Springs Canyon up to Milligan Peak. Brutal country but the old state record was taken not too far from there.

 

[billc]

great unit and glassing is the key. getting there early so your lungs start to get in tone with the thin air is a good idea. the bulls will be away from the cows for the most part as that hunt is really late this year.

you may want to see if you can hire someone with the back out as that could be very hard depending on were you get the bull at. there is bull elk were you think only big horn would be at it can be that rough and high.

 

[crcountry]

My buddy has hunted the 3rd MZ season in unit 17 for the past few years with a LO tag. He has given no exact info, but I can say this: his success is driven by his outfitters extensive knowledge of post-rut hiding holes for those big bulls, his long range MZ gun and his shooting capabilities, and the team of 4-5 guides/spotters who are on the mountain before daybreak, and everyone has split up, and are each looking for a giant bull before he lays down 7-minutes after the sun comes up. And from everything I've heard, the biggest bulls don't stand up until about 30-min before dark....and if it wasn't for a huge team of spotters/eyes starring diligently into their spotters, there is little chance that a novice, solo, DIY, or someone who hasn't hunted that rugged terrain can expect to shoot one of the 340"+ bulls that inhabit that nasty country all by themselves....with only 5-days to get it done. Those are pretty long nights to camp in rocky/nasty terrain, not to mention how easy it can be to cliff out, find water, or have a sensible plan on how to climb an opposing ridge in hopes to find the big bull you saw between 6:35-6:45am...then find him without blowing him out, and get a shot at sunset. If I drew that tag: I would go solo...and I would be on the mountain of my choosing 7-days before opening day....I would live out there. I would go deep, and explore the deepest/highest/nastiest terrain I could find/research, I would find a 330-340" bull, attempt to figure him out from a distance, and get him killed on opening day. Then spend the next 5-days humping him out. From what I've heard: a 350-370" bull is doable, but only with the right moisture year, and only with the right guide. Or your an elk hunting nut who has hunted that unit numerous times as a local. A 340" bull isn't to be passed up on most years...and a 300-320" is much, much easier. Just my 2-cents from someone who has never stepped foot in the unit....but man would I love that 3rd season tag. Cold nights and short days mean post rut bulls....Ill take that over a warm sept bow hunt any day.

 

[arwaterfowler]

So after reading your follow-up post, I would suggest you study the effective range of your bullet/powder combination for elk. Elk are very tough animals. It's one thing to be able to hit one at 500 yards (they're a big target). but it's another thing for a muzzleloader bullet to still be lethal once it travels that far. In my humble opinion, you'll want to still be packing at least 1,500 foot lbs of energy, and also traveling at a high enough velocity that it will still expand as designed when it makes contact. That will vary per projectile. So even if you can hit an elk at 500 yards, your maximum effective range might be limited to 300 or less...

I agree. I drew a December NM Muzzleloader hunt last year. I used a Thompson Center Omega, max load of Blackhorn 209 and 250 gr Barnes TMZ bullets. It shot very well at max charge - 3.5” groups at 300 yards. My 100 and 200 yard groups were within MOA.

I shot a nice bull on opening day at 175 yards. I killed the elk, but he didn’t go down quick. Upon recovery I discovered the bullet was lodged in the hide on the backside of the elk. Very little blood on the ground even though the bullet mushroomed perfectly and it was a lung shot.

My point - my muzzleloader is accurate at ranges farther than its killing range. My sample size is small, but I wouldn’t pull the trigger past 250. Granted, there may be a better long range setup than mine.

Good luck on your hunt, I’ve wanted that tag for a long time.

 

[cbat]

You might contact Darrel Welty at Limestone Outfitters. Good guy and runs a quality operations. He would be a good contact to have 575 772 5768 Not sure but he might know someone that could pack out a elk if you get one back in there.

 

[whitetailrick]

Wow... a lot of constructive info.... that's what MM is about..... good luck and do a solid and post after the hunt with pics.

 

[Ltsheets]

If he’s shooting BH209 and a quality, high BC bullet at 2300+, he should be fine. My wife and I took our muzz bulls in 17 a few yrs ago with a 300gr bullet at 2440. She shot hers at 400 and I shot mine at 450. Neither went more than 20yds from where they were hit. I’ll have mine ready for 500 and in this year with a slightly higher BC bullet. It’s amazing What modern Muzzleloaders are capable of these days.

So after reading your follow-up post, I would suggest you study the effective range of your bullet/powder combination for elk. Elk are very tough animals. It's one thing to be able to hit one at 500 yards (they're a big target). but it's another thing for a muzzleloader bullet to still be lethal once it travels that far. In my humble opinion, you'll want to still be packing at least 1,500 foot lbs of energy, and also traveling at a high enough velocity that it will still expand as designed when it makes contact. That will vary per projectile. So even if you can hit an elk at 500 yards, your maximum effective range might be limited to 300 or less...

 

[Ltsheets]

This is all true with your muzz but a custom muzz rated for smokeless powder can handle a much higher charge than yours can. I can get 2400fps with a 300gr easy out of mine with BH and can basically push it as Hard as I want without over pressuring.

I agree. I drew a December NM Muzzleloader hunt last year. I used a Thompson Center Omega, max load of Blackhorn 209 and 250 gr Barnes TMZ bullets. It shot very well at max charge - 3.5” groups at 300 yards. My 100 and 200 yard groups were within MOA.

I shot a nice bull on opening day at 175 yards. I killed the elk, but he didn’t go down quick. Upon recovery I discovered the bullet was lodged in the hide on the backside of the elk. Very little blood on the ground even though the bullet mushroomed perfectly and it was a lung shot.

My point - my muzzleloader is accurate at ranges farther than its killing range. My sample size is small, but I wouldn’t pull the trigger past 250. Granted, there may be a better long range setup than mine.

Good luck on your hunt, I’ve wanted that tag for a long time.

 

[Ltsheets]

For example. 300gr XLD at 2400fps at 6000ft elevation.

 

[BUGLEnmIN]

Told you Logan! You're a junky ???

 

[arwaterfowler]

This is all true with your muzz but a custom muzz rated for smokeless powder can handle a much higher charge than yours can. I can get 2400fps with a 300gr easy out of mine with BH and can basically push it as Hard as I want without over pressuring.

Gotcha. Pretty impressive.

 

[Ltsheets]

I don’t deny it bud!!

Told you Logan! You're a junky ???

 

[mozey]

So I have to ask, Logan: what 45-caliber 300-grain projectile are you shooting that has ballistic coefficient of 0.487?

I want one.

 

[Ltsheets]

 

[Jasp_NM]

I was lucky enough to draw this tag this year and am really excited. The hunt dates are 10/24-10/28. As I'm in Florida with limited time off of work I won't have a chance to scout the unit other then a day or two before the 5 day season opens. I've already started doing everything I can to get physically ready for the hunt (considering the flat land I have to train!) as I've heard that the mountains there can be pretty rugged and unforgiving.

Anyways, I was hoping someone familiar with the unit might be able to give me any sort of advice or pointers that could help on the hunt and point me in the right direction. I'll definitely be taking my 15s on a tripod and might take my spotting scope depending on if I think it will be helpful.

Gaston

Congrats! I'm from NM. I live less than 2 hours from Magdalena, just west of Bernalillo, NM. I also drew Unit 17, muzzleloader, first hunt. I will be hunting October 17-21. I can tell you that I'm excited about this hunt. I have been checking out the territory, and plan to start scouting at the end of August. I have been talking with the folks in Magdalena and they really love the Elk hunting there. Very friendly from what I can tell. I hear good things about Unit 17. I plan to hunt in one of the two Wilderness areas south of Magdalena. I don't believe you will need the range you are talking about. I think you can get a shot within 200 yards or less. As others mentioned, water is the key. They will move in and out of the wilderness area, heading for water at night, then back to the wilderness in the morning. There are a lot of nice bulls in this unit. It's a true trophy hunt. Heat may or may not be a problem. Sometimes it's still hot in late October. If you get one down, make sure you have a plan. Move quickly on the harvest. Luckily, there are places in Magdalena that will hang your meat. Best of luck to you! I believe you drew a very nice tag!

 

[Jasp_NM]

I'm a Socorro native (town on east edge of unit). Be prepared to to hunt up the mountain on loose scree or anklebreaker rocks, especially if you are hunting the Magdalenas. It is steep and nasty and will be tough for you to prepare while in FL. The San Mateos are typically easier but have their rough sections, too. A lot of the good bulls will be in there or far back enough that the majority of hunters won't want to walk in to them.

Outside of the hunters on this forum, most NM hunters are road hunters and that means you can quickly get away from pressure if you are willing to hike up or out. And I don't mean 5 miles back in, I mean 1.

Verizon is about your only hope of cell signal.

Finally, it's looking like it could be a dry summer so water will be key more than ever.

Good luck! I hope to draw this backyard hunt some day but can only seem to draw cows here and nothing this year. It's great to hear a motivated hunter got a tag.

P.S. 400+ yards with a ML. Wow!

I drew the first ML hunt this year. First time I drew in Unit 17! Fired up to give it a go! I will likely hunt SE of the VLA.

 

[gfontela]

What's up guys. I just wanted to update you on my hunt. I had an awesome time and got into some elk, but unfortunately most were rag horns and young bulls. I passed on a small 5 point on day 3 of the hunt and never had another decent opportunity after that. On the last day I did find a nice bull that probably would have been a 300-320 inch 6 point, but one of the antlers was broken completely off on the main beam about halfway up. I still would have shot him at that point if he was in a reasonable location, but he was in a spot that was pretty impossible for me to get to on the mountain side.

I only heard a couple of shots while I was there and wasn't able to get into many elk at all. I spoke to a couple of other hunters that I ran into that had hunted the unit in the past and they said that they think elk numbers are way down in the unit as they were seeing a lot less elk than they had in previous years.

Anyways, I still had an awesome time and hope to draw another elk tag in NM soon. I may try for a different unit next time though!

 

[Jasp_NM]

Sounds great! I agree about the numbers being down. Perhaps they go elsewhere when it's that dry. No rain in the fall is very unusual for NM. I too had a blast! I should have focused all of my time on the lower elevations, the rolling hills, with Pinon and Juniper. I had a nice bull in front of me on Day 2. He was pushing 10 cows. He was a stud bull for sure. The crossed in front of me at the bottom of a narrow meadow, and proceeded up to the top of a flat hill. It was about 8:30AM. My trail, which ran along a cattle fence also took me to the top of that hill. when I got to the top, Mr Big Bull was just getting to the top. He wasn't more than 80 yards from me. Needless to say, my rifle was still in the boot. By the time I pulled it out, the Bull was in full stride, heading to higher ground. I should have probably taken that running shot. I just didn't want to damage any meat on a day 2 runner. I knew he had to cross FR52 to reach higher ground so took FR52, only to see him moving up the mountain toward the burn scar on a very steep grade. I tried setting up in that area on day 3 with no luck. Day 4 I went to a higher area, about 8K. There was a lot of sign, but didn't see any elk morning, noon or night. Day 5 went back to the rolling hills and sat with glass up top. Had quite a few cows come close. 1 good bull, not a stud, but a good 6X6. He was on his own. I stalked him to 240, which was a lot of work. I didn't have the wind and he busted me. I saw quite a few bears, a Mexican Grey wolf, and even a Cougar crossing FR220! Even had bears coming through camp at night. It was a fun hunt. If I draw this unit again, I will sit on the top of those rolling hills with glass all 5 days. Glad you enjoyed it. NM is a great state to hunt.