Unit 9 NM land owner fraud on camera

Forthejustice

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Anyone who has hunted unit 9 NM knows how far it has fallen due to mismanagement and the ole Floyd Lee helicopter. Thanks to a YouTuber Elk shape.. he caught these ppl lying out of their asses about state land being his own hunting lease.


My family has hunted 9 for a combined 100+ years. Father’s, son’s, aunts, uncles, Cousins, friends and now grandsons. It’s horrible what is has become. This unit needs to be shut down.. elk reintroduced and the state needs to take back ownership of the land from these ranches that have been stolen from the public. Even go as far as taking away his cattle leasing rights. Game and fish and BLM management needs to pay active attention to get this unit strong again and the ranch owner needs to be held accountable so the herd can actually repopulate. They definitely need to reintroduce elk into the unit. You can hike for 2 weeks in archery season and never see an elk where in years past you could walk a mile in any direction and bump elk.

Watching this video you’ll see two things.. 1- These hunters got home-boy’d badly. As New Mexicans.. we need to do better. This is embarrassing. Yes, this happens everywhere but I hate seeing shitty posts about our state let alone my favorite unit. No matter where you are in life (Matt Rinella’s post) it never feels good to see an out of state truck or even in state trucks parked at our fav spot and our best units advertised all over the internet but this just puts more bad light on our state.and number 2 I hope enough ppl and the right ppl see this video to put an end to the Floyd Lee era for unit 9.
 
Haha. That guy is a liar... He is in charge of the property security for the ranch but has no idea who the game warden.

Can they lease and lock up state land in New Mexico?
 
For cattle yes. Not for hunting. It’s not like Texas or back East where they have leases with exclusive hunting rights. The owner owns 60% of the Entire mountain range as it is but this unit is 45 minutes away from a major city and Game and Fish offices. Even closer to the regional office. It’s been pushed aside as a high success draw odds unit. Not a high success kill odds unit.. the public didn’t vote for that choice. This kind of behavior has been tolerated for years.
 
16:30 - The "Security" says "I don't like doing it any more than, than, talking to you or wasting my day out here, but that's the job I've been asked to do." Sounds like a real stand up employee right there. Not to mention how many times he tells them to go talk to the landowner... Doesn't the landowner employ them so he NEVER has to talk to us pawns..??!
 
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16:30 - The "Security" says "I don't like doing it any more than, than, talking to you or wasting my day out here, but that's the job I've been asked to do." Sounds like a real stand up employee right there. Not to mention how many times he tells them to go talk to the landowner... Doesn't the landowner employ them so he NEVER has to talk to us pawns..??!
He tells them to go talk to the landowner because he doesn’t want to be caught lying especially on camera. Notice he never answered the question about if hunting was legal on the state land. He just kept saying Floyd leases this property. What a crock of S**T!
He also kept saying oh these hunters pay a lot of money.
I was also curious why the hunters didn’t just stay there and tell him to call the Game warden and see what happened especially since they knew they were legal.
 
Pretty hard to get much changed when everybody just rolls over.
Yup. I’d have walked right by that guy and gone hunting. Let the game warden kick me out and make sure I got a picture of the license plate in case my truck or camp got messed with. If you know your in public land tell guys like this to get F’d
 
Yup. I’d have walked right by that guy and gone hunting. Let the game warden kick me out and make sure I got a picture of the license plate in case my truck or camp got messed with. If you know your in public land tell guys like this to get F’d
I agree. Elk Shape held it together pretty well considering. If this was me I would have lost my ****. Or would have made it a point to call game and fish to get up there immediately.
 
Like The Public Ground I Found in Colorado That Was Illegally Posted By A Landowner & The USFS Too Chicken-Sshiitt To Do anything about it!

The Excuse They Gave Me At The Office:

Ya,We Know That Guy But We Do Have To Deal With It!
 
Those guys handled that better than I would have. I would have been back in there in the morning for sure, but left my buddy near the truck to watch it while I killed a bull on legal state land. Having said that I am sure that dude would have ruined the hunt for them somehow.
 
I cannot believe nothing can be done with it all on video now for G/f to see. I would have never been able to handle it as well as this guy did, but I knew the law as far as what the lease would be for. To me this is so bad to see but maybe with it all out in public for all to see something will be done now.

I have hunted the border of the double H ranch in unit 13 and never had any problems but have heard about unit 9 alot.
 
I don’t know about the state land near the Floyd Lee but there is state land in NM that has different rules and the public can’t hunt it. I would call the NM state land commissioners office.
 
I cannot believe nothing can be done with it all on video now for G/f to see. I would have never been able to handle it as well as this guy did, but I knew the law as far as what the lease would be for. To me this is so bad to see but maybe with it all out in public for all to see something will be done now.

I have hunted the border of the double H ranch in unit 13 and never had any problems but have heard about unit 9 alot.
These guys have destroyed the unit. Time to pay the piper.
 

Here is part 2 of these hunter’s experience.
“Elk cartel.”
This ranch has ran elk into the property for years. Unfortunately and unbelievably.. apparently NMG&F has NOT recorded the complaints. Sounds like the ranch and out fitter have been “fined” to no avail.

I’m preparing info to get to NMG&F along with the land owners commission to keep this **** on the radar to make something change. Again.. I think we all understand and recognize the his isn’t the only place this happens but this unit has been devastated. It will NEVER recover without assistance.
 
Like The Public Ground I Found in Colorado That Was Illegally Posted By A Landowner & The USFS Too Chicken-Sshiitt To Do anything about it!

The Excuse They Gave Me At The Office:

Ya,We Know That Guy But We Do Have To Deal With It!
Sorry for your experience. We all understand this happens probably in every state. I don't know what the fix is yet being everything is amount money.. having the money and power to fight these kind of battles.. seems impossible but we have to stay on top of these examples and make enough noise "management" has to respond. This unit will never come back without elk being reintroduced. It's unbelievable. This video evidence of the rancher and outfitter **** put me over the edge. He has 30k acres as it is. Clearly he can't manage his own property if he needs to chase elk back with the helicopter constantly.. who knows they might be shooting elk all year long. That would explain why the population hasn't recovered at all in the last 10 years.
 
16:30 - The "Security" says "I don't like doing it any more than, than, talking to you or wasting my day out here, but that's the job I've been asked to do." Sounds like a real stand up employee right there. Not to mention how many times he tells them to go talk to the landowner... Doesn't the landowner employ them so he NEVER has to talk to us pawns..??!
I agree. They have been telling this lie for long enough they believe it. There are a bunch of issues in here that will burn you p. I love how Elk Shape says “I respect what you do.” Not ha.

No documentation. Doesn’t know the district ranger or even his name yet this is a constant battle?? Please.
 
Anyone who has hunted unit 9 NM knows how far it has fallen due to mismanagement and the ole Floyd Lee helicopter. Thanks to a YouTuber Elk shape.. he caught these ppl lying out of their asses about state land being his own hunting lease.


My family has hunted 9 for a combined 100+ years. Father’s, son’s, aunts, uncles, Cousins, friends and now grandsons. It’s horrible what is has become. This unit needs to be shut down.. elk reintroduced and the state needs to take back ownership of the land from these ranches that have been stolen from the public. Even go as far as taking away his cattle leasing rights. Game and fish and BLM management needs to pay active attention to get this unit strong again and the ranch owner needs to be held accountable so the herd can actually repopulate. They definitely need to reintroduce elk into the unit. You can hike for 2 weeks in archery season and never see an elk where in years past you could walk a mile in any direction and bump elk.

Watching this video you’ll see two things.. 1- These hunters got home-boy’d badly. As New Mexicans.. we need to do better. This is embarrassing. Yes, this happens everywhere but I hate seeing shitty posts about our state let alone my favorite unit. No matter where you are in life (Matt Rinella’s post) it never feels good to see an out of state truck or even in state trucks parked at our fav spot and our best units advertised all over the internet but this just puts more bad light on our state.and number 2 I hope enough ppl and the right ppl see this video to put an end to the Floyd Lee era for unit 9.
Double that my friend :mad::mad::mad:???
Those guys handled that better than I would have. I would have been back in there in the morning for sure, but left my buddy near the truck to watch it while I killed a bull on legal state land. Having said that I am sure that dude would have ruined the hunt for them somehow.
Unfortunately they do. They’ll run their truck right down the middle and bust them out. If you’re lucky you see the helicopter and get buzzed by it.
 
I would like to hear Rio's opinion on this. This has been occuring for years with this landowner and yet nothing is done. How is it that Fish and Game is not acting on this clear violation?
When I tagged him, I was hoping to get some opinion on it. Maybe he will chime in.
 
I also heard… apparently game and fish has not kept record of complaints until recently. No definition of “recently.” And we are talking about only one unit. Nothing shady going on here…
 
So, I'm going to go ahead and say it. If this ranch owner thinks he owns the land because it's leased, he's a fool. If he misuses a grazing lease for personal gain outside the lease, he's a crook.

If I pay rent to someone for a house, does that mean I own the house? Nope.

Floyd Lee needs to go back to school to learn to read and write and maybe brush up on his comprehension skills...
 
So, I'm going to go ahead and say it. If this ranch owner thinks he owns the land because it's leased, he's a fool. If he misuses a grazing lease for personal gain outside the lease, he's a crook.

If I pay rent to someone for a house, does that mean I own the house? Nope.

Floyd Lee needs to go back to school to learn to read and write and maybe brush up on his comprehension skills...
No- he needs his free ranch tags taken away, heavily fined/ticketed. USO outfitters lose their guiding license and fined as well. This is BS that this is not being addressed by Fish and Game
 
So, I'm going to go ahead and say it. If this ranch owner thinks he owns the land because it's leased, he's a fool. If he misuses a grazing lease for personal gain outside the lease, he's a crook.

If I pay rent to someone for a house, does that mean I own the house? Nope.

Floyd Lee needs to go back to school to learn to read and write and maybe brush up on his comprehension skills...
It would be nice to see corrective action taken. I am pretty sure they offer reading and writing courses in prison. And even character building and teamwork!

Unfortunately based off the character shown.. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is more to the story.. old under the table off the books conversations and deals.. there is always something. How complaints haven’t been recorded.. blows me away.

Documentation is COMMON knowledge in every industry. But that comes from top managment not local officers and small regional offices. It’s a corporate thing. Land owners know hunting is a business. I feel like some in the hunting world don’t want to acknowledge it till something like this is brought to light.

There is more to this than we see even though we’ve seen plenty. Has to be. Unless their character is that skewed.. which it very well could but a deal had to have been made or a conversation had..
It just doesn’t add up.
 
It would be nice to see corrective action taken. I am pretty sure they offer reading and writing courses in prison. And even character building and teamwork!

Unfortunately based off the character shown.. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is more to the story.. old under the table off the books conversations and deals.. there is always something. How complaints haven’t been recorded.. blows me away.

Documentation is COMMON knowledge in every industry. But that comes from top managment not local officers and small regional offices. It’s a corporate thing. Land owners know hunting is a business. I feel like some in the hunting world don’t want to acknowledge it till something like this is brought to light.

There is more to this than we see even though we’ve seen plenty. Has to be. Unless their character is that skewed.. which it very well could but a deal had to have been made or a conversation had..
It just doesn’t add up.

With the way Col. Griego was all giddy about the "conviction" of the outfitter illegally guiding a sheep hunt, you'd think he'd be all over this...
 
In all honesty… I’ve been a lazy hunter. I’ve never put effort into being involved in our conservation.. I get it now. Many of us know 9 used to be basically top tier in quantity (alot of ugly rag horns though) but they taste just as good. But all our units need help. Landowners need help. There are solutions out there. We all have to put in some effort outside of applying every year and complaining about x y more x and z.
 
This kinda situation happens all over the state. I had this issue last year for an antelope hunt. I was told to leave state land that I accessed through a county road. I remember when unit 9 had the checker board on the north side of Mt Taylor. That was a nightmare.
 
I've had ranchers tell me they owned 50,000 acres when off range oryx'ing. Actually, they had 50 acres deeded and 49,950 of BLM graze lease.

I don't say much because they usually don't mind telling you where they usually see them.
 
I've had ranchers tell me they owned 50,000 acres when off range oryx'ing. Actually, they had 50 acres deeded and 49,950 of BLM graze lease.

I don't say much because they usually don't mind telling you where they usually see them.
So you can hunt all the BLM ground there is
 
Ok let me see if I understand this. I have seen ranches online for sale touting that the property is 56,000 acres selling for $32,500,000 but it only has 3,500 deeded acres and the rest is BLM. Now does the BLM Lease get LO Tags that they can also sell to make money and then they can sell 52,500 acres that they really don’t own?
If I’m correct on how this works how do we get in this game?
I’m sure we can get together a few guys buy a few hundred acres next to BLM Land or State land we can Lease. Does anyone know what the cost per acre to Lease this Magic Land?

If I have time I’m going to call The BLM Offices today
Oh I also seen an article that said The Floyd Lee is 330,000 acres but then I seen another article that said Ted Turner owns the largest ranch period in NM thats 290,000 acres and the total amount of acres he owns personally is 2 million through out the United States.
 
Ok let me see if I understand this. I have seen ranches online for sale touting that the property is 56,000 acres selling for $32,500,000 but it only has 3,500 deeded acres and the rest is BLM. Now does the BLM Lease get LO Tags that they can also sell to make money and then they can sell 52,500 acres that they really don’t own?
If I’m correct on how this works how do we get in this game?
I’m sure we can get together a few guys buy a few hundred acres next to BLM Land or State land we can Lease. Does anyone know what the cost per acre to Lease this Magic Land?

If I have time I’m going to call The BLM Offices today
Oh I also seen an article that said The Floyd Lee is 330,000 acres but then I seen another article that said Ted Turner owns the largest ranch period in NM thats 290,000 acres and the total amount of acres he owns personally is 2 million through out the United States.

No, graze lease doesn't get landowner tags. The land has to be deeded acreage and meet the criteria Game and Fish established.
 
The State needs to step in and make sure that lawful hunters aren't being allowed to hunt with a legal tag.
NM F&G needs to stop that problem or pay back your tag and lic fees.
 
Rio is with G&F. Not sure if he can comment on it, but if he can, I bet he does. Very good source and straight shooter. We are lucky to have him on MM.
This exact case has been addressed, from the hunters and with Floyd Lee Ranch and "security" person. The video was helpful(from my understanding). The Corporal drove out there and verified . The hunters had GPS set and they never crossed into "deeded" land , however the security never interfered during the hunt only met the hunters after to communicate the message he was instructed by ranch management. That instruction from security has been addressed as well. The Dept of G&F is a big department , please understand not all staff know all the ins and outs or case loads and or stories behind. I come on to MM to enjoy as this is my personal account and my comments are mine and not the opinion or feelings of the NMDGF. I dont always comment because many know I work and cannot have my own opinion without being under a microscope. I'll share info that is sharable such as dates , etc , but because I dont comment doesn't mean I dont care ,maybe I just dont know are maybe its not for me to comment on. I cant even share if I ever draw a license in the draw as all the goons believe I received it on the dept magical employee tag allocation ...ok , so good day to ya'll...
 
so is the state land able to be accessed and hunted by public hunters without being harassed?
I'd hope so , but some land owners and or outfitters will still try and flex bull crap muscle . Best thing is for hunters if possible to record such interactions . Its hard for LE of any agency to have action on " he said she said words" , but if there is video , then there's something to work with. But I cant answer that and believe for one second that land owners care about the public land hunter and will follow the line of the law. You know as well as anyone theres always going to be those people who don't care and are not afraid and will try and disrupt if they can.
 
Ted Turner owns more private land in NM than anyone else. Between the Ladder, Armendaris and Vermejo Park I think it is close to 1 mil. acres.
Yeah the article must have been older than I thought and I totally forgot about the Vermejo Ranch which is way more than 200K acres.
I hunted the Cottonwood Ranch my first elk hunt, with USO and that Ranch butted up against the Vermejo my elk ended up dying on that property Not very far so that was good. You also had to go through the Philmont Ranch to get on the Cottonwood Ranch I still remember the lock combination 3030! Lol! Funny Story but Not! Remember when I said I even have problems communicating verbally or sometimes my intentions are pure but I forget important details To tell the other people why I want to do something or not? Well this was one of those times! There was a Surgeon on that hunt with his attractive blonde wife, anyway I heard everyone talking about how the good Doctor wasn’t going to kill an elk because of her, because when they were making a stalk on several nice eIk his wife would blow her nose, fart, anything to keep him from killing his quarry. So when they were going out on the second to last evening hunt I told her in front of everyone including her husband “hey why don’t you come with me and we’ll go down into the town and do some window shopping at the trading post in Cimmaron. Now here’s where I cause a problem. Unbeknownst to Me but Knownst to Them The Couple and a few of the guides etc She had been recently caught cheating on him for she had been doing so for quite sometime with a couple of different guys so he wasn’t going to let her stay home on the east coast while he was hunting on the west coast! So here I’m thinking I’ll take her in town kill time window shopping so he can kill his elk I thought. So we left, I went through the gate onto the Philmont and I seen that LP the guide was chasing me down so she’s had me turn around immediately so I did and started driving back to LP’s truck she almost jumps out of my truck to run to her husband in the truck. So I thought well I tried!
So I went into town window shopping well when I got back hours later there was the trucks parked in a circle with their headlights on I asked what was going on and their said the Doc was having a heart attack so a hello was coming for him. So I go into the cabin to check on him but when I went inside she said Joe can you leave so I grab a soda and left! Well no hello was needed thank God. So I went to talk to the other hunters and guides and give one of the guides his beer that I got for him because it was his birthday and wanted to celebrate. Another good deed right? Wrong! Since I was gone for so long he had to started doing whiskey and was drunk as F$CK when I returned so he blamed me for his drunken state because whoever the boss was he was pissed that he was hammered so now he is MFing me and wants to fight I just laughed and walked away! Now here’s the funny part. I called and talked to the owners wife of USO to see if they found my binos I left there when she heard my name she said “oh your the one that was messing around with the Doctors wife and they had to call a hello! I had know idea that was what happened! There is a member on here that was there or hear the story from the other guides that I was trying to hook up with the Doctor’s wife basically right in front him! The member also said that, that is the go to campfire story on all hunts since it happened! So “I’ve have that going for me”! So the moral of the story is I‘m not helping anyone! Just kidding I try to help whenever I can it’s just my good intentions sometimes causes problems
 
Yeah the article must have been older than I thought and I totally forgot about the Vermejo Ranch which is way more than 200K acres.
I hunted the Cottonwood Ranch my first elk hunt, with USO and that Ranch butted up against the Vermejo my elk ended up dying on that property Not very far so that was good. You also had to go through the Philmont Ranch to get on the Cottonwood Ranch I still remember the lock combination 3030! Lol! Funny Story but Not! Remember when I said I even have problems communicating verbally or sometimes my intentions are pure but I forget important details To tell the other people why I want to do something or not? Well this was one of those times! There was a Surgeon on that hunt with his attractive blonde wife, anyway I heard everyone talking about how the good Doctor wasn’t going to kill an elk because of her, because when they were making a stalk on several nice eIk his wife would blow her nose, fart, anything to keep him from killing his quarry. So when they were going out on the second to last evening hunt I told her in front of everyone including her husband “hey why don’t you come with me and we’ll go down into the town and do some window shopping at the trading post in Cimmaron. Now here’s where I cause a problem. Unbeknownst to Me but Knownst to Them The Couple and a few of the guides etc She had been recently caught cheating on him for she had been doing so for quite sometime with a couple of different guys so he wasn’t going to let her stay home on the east coast while he was hunting on the west coast! So here I’m thinking I’ll take her in town kill time window shopping so he can kill his elk I thought. So we left, I went through the gate onto the Philmont and I seen that LP the guide was chasing me down so she’s had me turn around immediately so I did and started driving back to LP’s truck she almost jumps out of my truck to run to her husband in the truck. So I thought well I tried!
So I went into town window shopping well when I got back hours later there was the trucks parked in a circle with their headlights on I asked what was going on and their said the Doc was having a heart attack so a hello was coming for him. So I go into the cabin to check on him but when I went inside she said Joe can you leave so I grab a soda and left! Well no hello was needed thank God. So I went to talk to the other hunters and guides and give one of the guides his beer that I got for him because it was his birthday and wanted to celebrate. Another good deed right? Wrong! Since I was gone for so long he had to started doing whiskey and was drunk as F$CK when I returned so he blamed me for his drunken state because whoever the boss was he was pissed that he was hammered so now he is MFing me and wants to fight I just laughed and walked away! Now here’s the funny part. I called and talked to the owners wife of USO to see if they found my binos I left there when she heard my name she said “oh your the one that was messing around with the Doctors wife and they had to call a hello! I had know idea that was what happened! There is a member on here that was there or hear the story from the other guides that I was trying to hook up with the Doctor’s wife basically right in front him! The member also said that, that is the go to campfire story on all hunts since it happened! So “I’ve have that going for me”! So the moral of the story is I‘m not helping anyone! Just kidding I try to help whenever I can it’s just my good intentions sometimes causes problems
Huh?
 
This exact case has been addressed, from the hunters and with Floyd Lee Ranch and "security" person. The video was helpful(from my understanding). The Corporal drove out there and verified . The hunters had GPS set and they never crossed into "deeded" land , however the security never interfered during the hunt only met the hunters after to communicate the message he was instructed by ranch management. That instruction from security has been addressed as well. The Dept of G&F is a big department , please understand not all staff know all the ins and outs or case loads and or stories behind. I come on to MM to enjoy as this is my personal account and my comments are mine and not the opinion or feelings of the NMDGF. I dont always comment because many know I work and cannot have my own opinion without being under a microscope. I'll share info that is sharable such as dates , etc , but because I dont comment doesn't mean I dont care ,maybe I just dont know are maybe its not for me to comment on. I cant even share if I ever draw a license in the draw as all the goons believe I received it on the dept magical employee tag allocation ...ok , so good day to ya'll...
As always, thank you.
 
This exact case has been addressed, from the hunters and with Floyd Lee Ranch and "security" person. The video was helpful(from my understanding). The Corporal drove out there and verified . The hunters had GPS set and they never crossed into "deeded" land , however the security never interfered during the hunt only met the hunters after to communicate the message he was instructed by ranch management. That instruction from security has been addressed as well. The Dept of G&F is a big department , please understand not all staff know all the ins and outs or case loads and or stories behind. I come on to MM to enjoy as this is my personal account and my comments are mine and not the opinion or feelings of the NMDGF. I dont always comment because many know I work and cannot have my own opinion without being under a microscope. I'll share info that is sharable such as dates , etc , but because I dont comment doesn't mean I dont care ,maybe I just dont know are maybe its not for me to comment on. I cant even share if I ever draw a license in the draw as all the goons believe I received it on the dept magical employee tag allocation ...ok , so good day to ya'll...
Rio, please keep on posting here it’s very nice to have someone that can answer questions in real time and not have to find the time to call NMG&F even though NMG&F are some of the most helpful state workers I’ve ever talked to! I called AZ a long time ago and it wasn’t the same so kudos! Also you can tell me every time you draw a tag and I’ll be happy as hell for you!
So do you think you and the secret society can get me a DESERT SHEEP TAG this year?! LMAO! Boy I sure hope I don’t draw that tag this year can you imagine the BS that would start?! ?
Oh as I said above how and why does the State allow people to sell the acreage that is BLM or State ground that isn’t owned by them. I know they are not actually getting the property but their getting paid for it as it was theirs and again how can we get in on the Scam! Also why doesn’t the State sell the property where they are really selling it and use the money to help stop the drug problem there and other worth while causes? Although NM is almost as bad as IL for political corruption
 
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Ted Turner owns more private land in NM than anyone else. Between the Ladder, Armendaris and Vermejo Park I think it is close to 1 mil. acres.
I heard a rumor that Ted said many years ago that he wanted to drive from one coast to the other coast with out ever leaving his property. That would be nice
 
@joesikora Every ranch listing I've seen indicates total ranch acres and deeded acres separately. It's my understanding that grazing leases are transferable, so there is a tiny bit of property right associated with them. If you want a few guaranteed tags, Broken Butt Ranch is for sale for less than $3k/acre but you gotta buy 11k acres at a time (all deeded).
 
Yeah $33,000,000 is just a hair over my budget! LOL!
If we can get 1,100 guys to split the cost?!
thanks for the info
 
Ruben, I was told by a big name outfitter in Chama that the Broken Butt was already parsed out and sold?
 
As hunters we need to utilize one of our most important items we carry and thats the phone video. Be polite ask lots of questions and document all interactions with Ranch or Outfitter personnel. You mat be surprised at how to situation may change when you you start to record a conversation.
 
@WapitiBob @toklat Oh, good. BB was listed for a long time. I did see that they had recently offered smaller parcels.

State land grazing leases do allow the rancher to access the land much more than the hunting lease. I think the rancher can scout and camp on the state land, whereas hunters are limited to day hunting only and only right around when there license is valid. Also while coyotes are non-game animal, if you want to hunt them on state land (outside of your elk license), you need to have a furbearers license. Pretty sure about this.

+1 Video
 
WV, Outfitter went as far as saying he leased the hunting rights from one of the bigger parcels sold?
Maybe link has not be updated!
 
"I'd hope so , but some land owners and or outfitters will still try and flex bull crap muscle . Best thing is for hunters if possible to record such interactions . Its hard for LE of any agency to have action on " he said she said words" , but if there is video , then there's something to work with. But I cant answer that and believe for one second that land owners care about the public land hunter and will follow the line of the law. You know as well as anyone theres always going to be those people who don't care and are not afraid and will try and disrupt if they can."
Rio,
I heard through the grapevine that basically nothing was done about this. Even if USO/Landowner are fined, it's basically pennies to them. money talks
 
"I'd hope so , but some land owners and or outfitters will still try and flex bull crap muscle . Best thing is for hunters if possible to record such interactions . Its hard for LE of any agency to have action on " he said she said words" , but if there is video , then there's something to work with. But I cant answer that and believe for one second that land owners care about the public land hunter and will follow the line of the law. You know as well as anyone theres always going to be those people who don't care and are not afraid and will try and disrupt if they can."
Rio,
I heard through the grapevine that basically nothing was done about this. Even if USO/Landowner are fined, it's basically pennies to them. money talks
If ya have deep pockets the fines don't much matter . Taulman and that ranch have gotten away with so much , unit 9 used to be great and anymore its not worth a spot on applications .
 
Who's going to maintain the drinker system? There appears to be lots of cash for transferring to land owners, and taking land out of production, not so much for maintenance. Also, if you believe what the AJ rag is reporting, looks like half of the land is already reserved for exclusive special interest user groups.

Anyone seen a map? The only thing I can see on https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/ is a retweet from MLG.

AJ says ...
17,600 acres 'Upper Parcel" so 36,400 acres "Lower Parcel"

A quick scan of BaseMap shows three southern parcels adding up to 14,200 (so missing 2,340 acres). This is only about the southern 20% of the ranch that's up on Chivato Mesa. Cerro Civato and Quadelupe are not included in this.

There is a large parcel of 35,031 acres NW of (and well below) Chivato Mesa, and several smaller adjacent ones too, that could add up to 36,400 for the "Lower Parcel". Not sure I'd bother hunting anything besides coyotes and maybe doves and jacks down there. Further, I doubt that the new buyer took into account the cost of cleaning up the UMTRA site on that property (engineers wag of $1B). Compare this parcel to the Valles Caldera, and the hyperbole out of Sen. Heinrich illustrates that he apparently has serious memory loss.

This smells to me like every other typical government "land swap". Public gets a little nice stuff and lots of garbage, and the previous owner gets lots of good stuff. We're not going to be rid of the shenanigans previously discussed in this thread.

FWIW, I first read about this kind of transaction in the book "The Servile State" by Hilaire Belloc in 1912, so it's not new or surprising.

Not really excited in favor of this one, but willing to change this post and my opinion if someone can show me a map.
 
Not sure if it was still owned by the Burns family or not, but I grew up with their kids in Lovington. They had another huge ranch up there that they split up and sold during a divorce.
 
Who's going to maintain the drinker system? There appears to be lots of cash for transferring to land owners, and taking land out of production, not so much for maintenance. Also, if you believe what the AJ rag is reporting, looks like half of the land is already reserved for exclusive special interest user groups.

Anyone seen a map? The only thing I can see on https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/ is a retweet from MLG.

AJ says ...
17,600 acres 'Upper Parcel" so 36,400 acres "Lower Parcel"

A quick scan of BaseMap shows three southern parcels adding up to 14,200 (so missing 2,340 acres). This is only about the southern 20% of the ranch that's up on Chivato Mesa. Cerro Civato and Quadelupe are not included in this.

There is a large parcel of 35,031 acres NW of (and well below) Chivato Mesa, and several smaller adjacent ones too, that could add up to 36,400 for the "Lower Parcel". Not sure I'd bother hunting anything besides coyotes and maybe doves and jacks down there. Further, I doubt that the new buyer took into account the cost of cleaning up the UMTRA site on that property (engineers wag of $1B).
Found it. The strikeout rant above is about the wrong specific properties. Should have been Travis Crawford (~35k acres) plus the northern 20% of the Fernandez holdings on top of Chivato Mesa (~16.4k acres). Sorry about that.
1654876056344.png

1654876078908.png

Compare this parcel to the Valles Caldera, and the hyperbole out of Sen. Heinrich illustrates that he apparently has serious memory loss.

This smells to me like every other typical government "land swap". Public gets a little nice stuff and lots of garbage, and the previous owner gets lots of good stuff. We're not going to be rid of the shenanigans previously discussed in this thread.

FWIW, I first read about this kind of transaction in the book "The Servile State" by Hilaire Belloc in 1912, so it's not new or surprising.

Not really excited in favor of this one, but willing to change this post and my opinion if someone can show me a map.
 

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