Update

That can’t be good for Warden Queen. I have no idea about when he is to retire or the circumstances of his retirement. Judge Simpson and Warden Queen are likely well acquainted. Just sayin...mh
 
Retirement? How 'bout getting FIRED? Is this how the G & F operates...don't fire nobody....just ease them out the door with full pension?
 
mightyhunter said:
That can’t be good for Warden Queen. I have no idea about when he is to retire or the circumstances of his retirement. Judge Simpson and Warden Queen are likely well acquainted. Just sayin...mh
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It's hard to say what will be the outcome, but if I remember correctly, Queen was given information from a witness, which very well could give him that probable cause.

Either way, I'm sure there is more to this than we know and warden Queen should have qualified immunity.
 
TinCup said:
Retirement? How 'bout getting FIRED? Is this how the G & F operates...don't fire nobody....just ease them out the door with full pension?
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jm77 said:
It's hard to say what will be the outcome, but if I remember correctly, Queen was given information from a witness, which very well could give him that probable cause.

Either way, I'm sure there is more to this than we know and warden Queen should have qualified immunity.
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I don’t believe that qualified immunity is viable when the alleged acts are claimed to be intentional. Also, immunity would have been raised or considered in the initial hearing where the District Judge dismissed one cause of action. I do know that if this goes to trial, there may be many individuals who would testify as to prior intentional acts of bad behavior by Warden Queen. Whether the District Judge would allow such evidence to be admitted is another story. Only time will tell. Just sayin...mh
 
mightyhunter said:
I don’t believe that qualified immunity is viable when the alleged acts are claimed to be intentional. Also, immunity would have been raised or considered in the initial hearing where the District Judge dismissed one cause of action. I do know that if this goes to trial, there may be many individuals who would testify as to prior intentional acts of bad behavior by Warden Queen. Whether the District Judge would allow such evidence to be admitted is another story. Only time will tell. Just sayin...mh
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Dave, it's obvious you hate Queen and maybe you have good reason. When I say he should have qualified immunity, I speak in the context that if monetary damages are found, he won't be paying them, it will be the Department. So no, I don't think qualified immunity for an LEO would not be raised in the hearing.

Again, I don't know enough to pass judgement here on the case.
 
everybody is due a fair trial, game wardens included. No guarantee what will happen but you can guarantee that Wyoming Game and Fish will pull out all of the stops to cover not only their azz, but the warden's azz. and they'll do it by tapping into state funds, not personal pocket books.

implied immunity is BS...all it does is offer a bad character LEO a hiding place
 
I have no skin in this game, but in as much as I have no skin in the Wade Lemon charges in Utah either and yet I suggested we allow Mr. Lemon to have his day in court before we find him guilty in the MM court of public opinion, I feel compelled to suggest we also allow Warden Chris Queen his day in court before we declare him guilty as well. Like Mr. Lemon and Mr. Queen, I would ask for that much, were I in their place.
 
I think there is a $500,000 cap on payouts in Wyoming.

It truly amazes me that in complex cases judges take days, if not weeks, to make a decision based upon clearly defined case law. If an officer is granted qualified immunity, the courts are saying case law isn't clearly defined in regard to the circumstances of the case. Now, please explain to me why qualified immunity is bad?

Also, if you are going to ride the "Qualified Immunity Hating Ship", how much do you think law enforcement officer should make to pay for malpractice insurance? You know, like doctors do.

Finally, since obviously you're going to have to pay a LEO a large amount, how are you going to react to huge tax increases to pay for your local law enforcement? Or in this case huge license fee increases, because this is a budget buster.

This should be interesting.
 
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jm77 said:
Dave, it's obvious you hate Queen and maybe you have good reason. When I say he should have qualified immunity, I speak in the context that if monetary damages are found, he won't be paying them, it will be the Department. So no, I don't think qualified immunity for an LEO would not be raised in the hearing.

Again, I don't know enough to pass judgement here on the case.
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Actually, I don’t hate Queen. He is who he is. He has been in this area for about 17 years. I have always felt that wardens need to be moved around to new places to avoid law enforcement burnout. I do think he exerts way too much control over the local biologists. That has been my constant criticism.
 
2lumpy said:
I have no skin in this game, but in as much as I have no skin in the Wade Lemon charges in Utah either and yet I suggested we allow Mr. Lemon to have his day in court before we find him guilty in the MM court of public opinion, I feel compelled to suggest we also allow Warden Chris Queen his day in court before we declare him guilty as well. Like Mr. Lemon and Mr. Queen, I would ask for that much, were I in their place.
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Stop. Someone who lives within 50 miles of Mr lemon has never heard anything bad about him. So no stones should be thrown.
 
Tee Hee, not what I said SS!

Post up some of your dead brown bear pic. That thread needs another infusion.
 
Listen, you get rid of qualified immunity and this country sees the MAJORITY of police exit stage right and take better jobs you know, at Home Depot. They will be replaced by who knows what as far as quality candidates. They will be the guys/girls that did not make the cut to be loss prevention at Walmart. You wanna talk about crime going up every LEO will hide in a hole pull up door to door avoid the public like the plague. I know I know a few already do this we get it.
 
clean cops have nothing to worry about and would have no issue taking responsibility. the dirty cops wouldn't have a skirt to hide under. all the rest of us aren't offered immunity, why should the pigs?
 
TinCup said:
clean cops have nothing to worry about and would have no issue taking responsibility. the dirty cops wouldn't have a skirt to hide under. all the rest of us aren't offered immunity, why should the pigs?
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Tinfoil - I thought you would spend your time worrying about guides taking all the resident tags and other stupid rumors. I am surprised you take such an interest in qualified immunity. Maybe you should actually research the subject instead of getting your info from CNN.

You expect the "clean cops" to support a family on $65k a year, get 4% insurance hikes every year, eat 4% to 10%+ inflation per year, and carry insurance just in case they get sued. All while they get a raise every 4 years of 3%. You do the math.

When the "clean cops" get sued by some dip$hit, they should be able to afford $250/hr for an attorney if they don't have insurance.

I am sure you know that the court has to look in the most favorable light to any allegation made. So, if someone alleges their rights were violated the court basically sides with them, and they can't dismiss the frivolous lawsuit. You probably know this, because you are well versed in reading case law.

I bet you're the first guy who calls the cops when the branch hits the side of the house. Or you probably pre-call based upon some "rumor" a guy is coming to your house.

Now, you know why I stated, "Great first post" in the other thread. I could see you were a clown from the get-go.
 
Southpawshooter said:
Tinfoil - I thought you would spend your time worrying about guides taking all the resident tags and other stupid rumors. I am surprised you take such an interest in qualified immunity. Maybe you should actually research the subject instead of getting your info from CNN.

You expect the "clean cops" to support a family on $65k a year, get 4% insurance hikes every year, eat 4% to 10%+ inflation per year, and carry insurance just in case they get sued. All while they get a raise every 4 years of 3%. You do the math.

When the "clean cops" get sued by some dip$hit, they should be able to afford $250/hr for an attorney if they don't have insurance.

I am sure you know that the court has to look in the most favorable light to any allegation made. So, if someone alleges their rights were violated the court basically sides with them, and they can't dismiss the frivolous lawsuit. You probably know this, because you are well versed in reading case law.

I bet you're the first guy who calls the cops when the branch hits the side of the house. Or you probably pre-call based upon some "rumor" a guy is coming to your house.

Now, you know why I stated, "Great first post" in the other thread. I could see you were a clown from the get-go.
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are you a pig/?
 
wweaver79 said:
Listen, you get rid of qualified immunity and this country sees the MAJORITY of police exit stage right and take better jobs you know, at Home Depot. They will be replaced by who knows what as far as quality candidates. They will be the guys/girls that did not make the cut to be loss prevention at Walmart. You wanna talk about crime going up every LEO will hide in a hole pull up door to door avoid the public like the plague. I know I know a few already do this we get it.
Click to expand...
Exactly! I lost all the respect I didn’t have for whoever that guy is. Please leave this otherwise solid forum, TinCup!
 
TinCup said:
are you a pig/?
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Maybe I am just a guy who knows how important qualified immunity is to law enforcement. You expect cops to live by rules not even made yet. To be fortunetellers if you will. All while risking every asset they have ever accumulated. I think reasonable people understand that is not reasonable. By the way, there are plenty of cops, good and bad, with monthly payments who didn't get qualified immunity.
 
tell me why this 'game warden' is supposedly going to be retired "early"??? If the suspect detainment was unjust, why wouldn't warden get fired and lose his pension?
 
TinCup said:
tell me why this 'game warden' is supposedly going to be retired "early"??? If the suspect detainment was unjust, why wouldn't warden get fired and lose his pension?
Click to expand...

Don't take my word. To my understanding it has been mutiple mistakes. Whether if it is a force retirement or retire before we let you go. Those are the details unknown.



Lot of people don't like queen. Especially the ones that shot a griz on self defense and queen is difficult to work with. But when queen shot a bear in self defense and found not guilty that created a lot of resentments with people.

I personally dont care for the guy. He is highly influenced by a couple of locals. It is my belief the multiple mistakes he has made the last few years he had been asked to retire. The timing of this case kinda sealed the deal.

Again I truly don't know. I am looking foreward to a new game warden. I have only sealed with queen a few times and it was all over a phone calls on some mountain goats and the calls were all late at night when he stays at the sunlight game and fish cabin. His information was good and I thanked him
 
nfh, I take it the one of the highly "influential" locals is that Conservancy property? Some say he double dips as their private warden. Can't forget the Sheep case up in Crandall, where a lady drew a tag and detective Queen along with USFS "special agent" Scott Bragonier (if you knew Bragonier, you'd LOL over the special agent moniker). just couldn't believe that a woman could shoot a ram, much less go on a sheep hunt. So the dynamic duo tailed the guided hunting party and the woman did get her ram. Yet, the got detained at McDonalds in Cody and the case went to court. Queen didn't even come close to proving his case, and lost. Ah yes, the no/questions/asked Queen shoots a griz situation. Yet, anybody gets ran through the ringer for months. My question remains, if all is true, why isn't the man FIRED?
 
TinCup said:
nfh, I take it the one of the highly "influential" locals is that Conservancy property? Some say he double dips as their private warden. Can't forget the Sheep case up in Crandall, where a lady drew a tag and detective Queen along with USFS "special agent" Scott Bragonier (if you knew Bragonier, you'd LOL over the special agent moniker). just couldn't believe that a woman could shoot a ram, much less go on a sheep hunt. So the dynamic duo tailed the guided hunting party and the woman did get her ram. Yet, the got detained at McDonalds in Cody and the case went to court. Queen didn't even come close to proving his case, and lost. Ah yes, the no/questions/asked Queen shoots a griz situation. Yet, anybody gets ran through the ringer for months. My question remains, if all is true, why isn't the man FIRED?
Click to expand...

Let's just he built queens house. Let's just say it's OK for him to guide hunters and get paid. Whether he still has a outfitters license that I don't know
 
TinCup said:
clean cops have nothing to worry about and would have no issue taking responsibility. the dirty cops wouldn't have a skirt to hide under. all the rest of us aren't offered immunity, why should the pigs?
Click to expand...

Ya, because we all no ambulance chasers would never make crap up
 
Cops have it rough. They are placed in a no-win situation constantly. I feel bad for the police. I would not let my child grow up to be one in this day and age. We need to fund them and put laws in place to protect them. Yeah, I'm sure there's some bad apples in the police force, but there is anywhere.
 
Couldn’t imagine being a cop in todays world , I think I’d have to shoot if ya looked at me wrong, if all these thugs would just cooperate instead of being dumb there wouldn’t be no putting knee on necks, shots fired and taser deployment!! Just saying if ya wanna be dumb then you should be treated as such,
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Cops have it rough. They are placed in a no-win situation constantly. I feel bad for the police. I would not let my child grow up to be one in this day and age. We need to fund them and put laws in place to protect them. Yeah, I'm sure there's some bad apples in the police force, but there is anywhere.
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WE elect our political representatives. WE elected Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney. OUR Representatives pass our laws. OUR elected local Mayors hire our police officers to arrest us, when we break the laws our Representatives made, in our behalf. OUR Representatives appoint our Judges to determine if our police officers were justified in arresting us, or they govern the jury that decides.

For the past 50 years there has been a growing trend for this system to make more and more laws that the system demands the police officers enforce and when they do, the same system rejects their enforcing those laws.

And, then, WE have the unmitigated gall to blame the cops.

If that’s not social madness, explain what is.
 
Bluehair said:
Boy, I’m tempted to share my wrong address story again.

Not all cops are good. That’s a fact.
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No unfortunately they are human and with it comes a truckload of issues. Also, just like plumbers a few will land you up **** creek when it was not deserved and maybe take your money. It's what society has to do however, support them as best they can. There is no alternative but to try hire the best but there is so much negative to the job now the hiring standard keeps get lower and lower and with it more and more problems from sub par hires. Most depts can barely even get people to show up for testing when hundreds would should up 20 years ago. Think about the view of law enforcement now from what it was 20 years ago. More than half of the public does not want to even see you around, that is until they have a real problem.
 
wweaver79 said:
No unfortunately they are human and with it comes a truckload of issues. Also, just like plumbers a few will land you up **** creek when it was not deserved and maybe take your money. It's what society has to do however, support them as best they can. There is no alternative but to try hire the best but there is so much negative to the job now the hiring standard keeps get lower and lower and with it more and more problems from sub par hires. Most depts can barely even get people to show up for testing when hundreds would should up 20 years ago. Think about the view of law enforcement now from what it was 20 years ago. More than half of the public does not want to even see you around, that is until they have a real problem.
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Agreed. School teachers, cops, and soldiers certainly don’t do the jobs for the money. And they are hard jobs.

That said, many ordinary citizens are held to the “willful negligence” standard in performance of their jobs. I don’t see why cops shouldn’t be also.
 
Bluehair said:
Boy, I’m tempted to share my wrong address story again.

Not all cops are good. That’s a fact.
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I remember that you shared a driveway encounter (as I recall) In fact, another member and I were talking about you a couple of days ago. We were thinking “ole blue is a good man” but he’s got an issue with law enforcement. And……. I was thinking you had said your Dad was employed in law enforcement. I could be wrong but I do recall something like that, that you shared previously.

Our opinions are certainly subject to our personal experiences, law enforcement interaction certainly shapes our opinions with law enforcement……….. but for me, I believe our system is in conflict with itself and it’s causing cognitive confusion in our society and it’s not fair to lump well intended law enforcement individuals with the SOBs, that are trying to keep us safe. That is not to say some of them are not rotten SOBs, the same as some oil riggers, truck drivers, doctors, candlestick makers, cooks, chemists, farmer, nurses, engineers, accountants, heavy equipment operators, bear outfitters, proctologist, etc. etc. After all the very nature of the law enforcement does call for a rather aggressive, assertive, cautious, personality. A proctologist personality might not be good choice for a law enforcement personality………. Just saying.
 
2lumpy said:
I remember that you shared a driveway encounter (as I recall) In fact, another member and I were talking about you a couple of days ago. We were thinking “ole blue is a good man” but he’s got an issue with law enforcement. And……. I was thinking you had said your Dad was employed in law enforcement. I could be wrong but I do recall something like that, that you shared previously.

Our opinions are certainly subject to our personal experiences, law enforcement interaction certainly shapes our opinions with law enforcement……….. but for me, I believe our system is in conflict with itself and it’s causing cognitive confusion in our society and it’s not fair to lump well intended law enforcement individuals with the SOBs, that are trying to keep us safe. That is not to say some of them are not rotten SOBs, the same as some oil riggers, truck drivers, doctors, candlestick makers, cooks, chemists, farmer, nurses, engineers, accountants, heavy equipment operators, bear outfitters, proctologist, etc. etc. After all the very nature of the law enforcement does call for a rather aggressive, assertive, cautious, personality. A proctologist personality might not be good choice for a law enforcement personality………. Just saying.
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Sorta. The driveway was correct.

But it was my father in law that was local LEO (and BIL, and wifes grandpa who is on the LEO memorial in DC). Then back home its another BIL and a niece and nephew who are LEO’s.

With that many around (doesn’t count the two SEAL’s), how can you not run afoul of the law at every Thanksgiving?

So no, I don’t believe I have an issue with law enforcement. Just dumbazzes. You might be confused because I’m a contrarian in this echo chamber.

The LEO memorial in DC. As I said, my wife’s grandpa is on that wall.
95B5454E-9696-4438-87BB-9305FC8DA93A.jpeg
 
You’re a good man Blue…… you probably won’t like my comparison, but I think you are a lot like our friend TriState, a contrarian is good way to describe him too. I guess you could say I am as well, and I have issues with dumbasses too…….. unless I’m being one on any given occasion. I’m pretty good at it.
 
Bluehair said:
Boy, I’m tempted to share my wrong address story again.

Not all cops are good. That’s a fact.
Click to expand...
and too many "good" cops look the other way when the "bad" ones are playing their games

Another point - have any of you witnessed the militarization of police departments? Does the Worland PD need tanks and other pieces of heavy artillery? If you think their cannons are there to protect you, what'cha gonna' do when them cannons are pointed straight at you? I heard that the Cody PD will, in a crisis, such as an 80 year old women getting pulled over for speeding, will rush to the police station and change into army fatigues and then swarm the poor lady with 13 squad cars and 30 cops playing GI Joe.

And ya all want cops to have qualified immunity.................
 
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TinCup said:
and too many "good" cops look the other way when the "bad" ones are playing their games

Another point - have any of you witnessed the militarization of police departments? Does the Worland PD need tanks and other pieces of heavy artillery? If you think their cannons are there to protect you, what'cha gonna' do when them cannons are pointed straight at you? I heard that the Cody PD will, in a crisis, such as an 80 year old women getting pulled over for speeding, will rush to the police station and change into army fatigues and then swarm the poor lady with 13 squad cars and 30 cops playing GI Joe.

And ya all want cops to have qualified immunity.................
Click to expand...
Ask the parents of the children at Ross Elementary School if they would have liked having a military tank at their school house while they were waiting for a key to open that metal classroom door.
 
Some of us old timers remember when it was common thought by our adults, that went something like this: It takes a crook to catch a crook.

Back in the days, when people in cities felt safe from the gangsters, outlaws, hustlers, carpetbaggers, highway men, etc, they hired the meanest son of b-tches they could find, to maintain law and order. Worked dang well.

When some knothead started acting nuts, the guy that had been hired to keep peace (peace officer - remember them) went to work and took care of business and then a tough as hell judge supported the victim and the cop and put the thug away for long enough to get his attention. The plea deal was, the crook got feed and his family didn’t have to bring his food in everyday.

Things seem to be less chaotic in those days……I wonder why.
 
2lumpy said:
Some of us old timers remember when it was common thought by our adults, that went something like this: It takes a crook to catch a crook.

Back in the days, when people in cities felt safe from the gangsters, outlaws, hustlers, carpetbaggers, highway men, etc, they hired the meanest son of b-tches they could find, to maintain law and order. Worked dang well.

When some knothead started acting nuts, the guy that had been hired to keep peace (peace officer - remember them) went to work and took care of business and then a tough as hell judge supported the victim and the cop and put the thug away for long enough to get his attention. The plea deal was, the crook got feed and his family didn’t have to bring his food in everyday.

Things seem to be less chaotic in those days……I wonder why.
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???. That’s hilarious
 
2lumpy said:
Ask the parents of the children at Ross Elementary School if they would have liked having a military tank at their school house while they were waiting for a key to open that metal classroom door.
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are you referring to the same Ross Elementary where the bad@ss cops cowered in the shadows while that creep shot the place up?
 
TinCup said:
and too many "good" cops look the other way when the "bad" ones are playing their games

Another point - have any of you witnessed the militarization of police departments? Does the Worland PD need tanks and other pieces of heavy artillery? If you think their cannons are there to protect you, what'cha gonna' do when them cannons are pointed straight at you? I heard that the Cody PD will, in a crisis, such as an 80 year old women getting pulled over for speeding, will rush to the police station and change into army fatigues and then swarm the poor lady with 13 squad cars and 30 cops playing GI Joe.

And ya all want cops to have qualified immunity.................
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've been locked up before. All misdemeanors or a few felonies? Do you always blame others when you're at fault. Typical of most criminals these days. Mommy and daddy should of taught you right from wrong.
 
grosventrehunter said:
Sounds like you've been locked up before. All misdemeanors or a few felonies? Do you always blame others when you're at fault. Typical of most criminals these days. Mommy and daddy should of taught you right from wrong.
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Misdemeanors. The ones that are felons come back as born again holy rollers. He hasn’t asked any of us non-believers to call him yet.
 
Ha! Ya'all talkin' and cryin' bout a "rogue" game warden yet will turn a blind eye to the bad cops? Hey JM77 aka Mr. grandMom, you've always come across as having so much clout with the G and F...so make a phone call and get the warden fired!
 

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