UTAH DFW to add General Elk tags to draw for 2022

bpbigperm

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The link below has the article. Essentially they are going to try a one year trial and see how it works out. Their goal is to alleviate the rush to get tags the last two years.

"Varney said that they’ve asked for an update to the database that expands its capabilities. But in the interim, they want to include the general-season “any bull elk and spike elk” permits in the big game drawing."

https://kslnewsradio.com/1958652/elk-hunt-permit-changes-in-utah-proposed-by-utah-dwr/
 
This would be a huge bummer. The LAST big game tag in Utah that you could legitimately purchase OTC. I know several folks who walked into the grocery store at 10am this year and purchased their tags on the day they became available. If you don't want "points" for general elk tags, speak up now!

Get your comments into the RAC's today! Before meetings start next week.
 
This would be a huge bummer. The LAST big game tag in Utah that you could legitimately purchase OTC. I know several folks who walked into the grocery store at 10am this year and purchased their tags on the day they became available. If you don't want "points" for general elk tags, speak up now!

Get your comments into the RAC's today! Before meetings start next week.
And then there were other guys thinking they could just walk in and buy a tag but there was one guy in line that was buying tags for 15 of his friends and family members. Which held up the line for over an hour just for that one guy. I'm indifferent on this issue, definitely won't loose sleep whatever happens.
 
I don't generally participate in this hunt so don't have skin in the game personally but I do think running it through the draw software will be more fair to applicants.

It's not really an OTC tag (except for youth and archery) and they sell out in 8-10 hours even with all the computer crashes from peeps gaming the system with a dozen screens open hoping one gets through.

Current system: half-day scrum, may not get online at all, may sell out while you're waiting in line in person= 0% chance at a tag

Proposed system: your spot is reserved in advance, true random draw. Odds= who knows?

IMO, trying something new is likely better than sticking with a broken system
 
Did you happen to scroll down and see the proposal to bump up tags to the max point
Holders.It would go up to 60%
 
Stupid idea, only being done to get the $10 application fees.

I have a solution to alleviate the strain on the DWR'S tag system and most likely make it so the tags don't sell out on day 1.

Make all over the counter tags true "over the counter" tags. Meaning: you can only buy them in person, no online sales for these tags.

You want a tag, then go pick one up, I guarantee they will not sell out on day one, and the tag vendors should like it because it brings people into there stores who are more likely to buy something else as well. Win/win in my book.
 
Stupid idea, only being done to get the $10 application fees.

I have a solution to alleviate the strain on the DWR'S tag system and most likely make it so the tags don't sell out on day 1.

Make all over the counter tags true "over the counter" tags. Meaning: you can only buy them in person, no online sales for these tags.

You want a tag, then go pick one up, I guarantee they will not sell out on day one, and the tag vendors should like it because it brings people into there stores who are more likely to buy something else as well. Win/win in my book.
Whoa!!! Way to much common sense in this comment for 2021 and beyond....really though this would fix a major percentage of what's wrong with what they're doing now
 
We Thought it Would Happen in 2021!

2022 Here We Go!

I Didn't Walk In To Our Local Store Till Mid-Afternoon & Bought the Elk Tag!

Not Another Sole in the Store other than the Gal Working in the Store!

I Didn't See a Problem with The Way I Purchased the Permit!

Wait Time = 0!
 
The DWR will generate another $250k+ in app fees and not do a damn thing to make these hunts/habitat/access any better.

Mark my words...points will be next. The "one year test" will turn permanent.
 
In person tag sales and do away with the multi season tags. Muzzy hunters are getting screwed with the multi season. Way more people "trying it out". And while we are at it. Change the archery season to the whole month of September. Problem solved. We would get more archers with the proper dates. Tags started selling faster with the introduction of the multi season tags.
 
In person tag sales and do away with the multi season tags. Muzzy hunters are getting screwed with the multi season. Way more people "trying it out". And while we are at it. Change the archery season to the whole month of September. Problem solved. We would get more archers with the proper dates. Tags started selling faster with the introduction of the multi season tags.
Well said. I like these suggestions.
 
I'm surprised no one has brought up how the DNR wants to switch from a 50/50 split to a 60/40. She snuck it in the last 30 seconds of the video. Thoughts???

Here is the video:

 
Those who have max points have specifically chosen to wait for the tag they desire. If they didn't know in the beginning they have had many years to figure it out.
 
The real problem is only offering 3,100 LE and OIL permits.

That is a fraction of what all other western states offer.
 
Ok, so roughly 6,200 total. Still the problem...
Agree, if the current CWMU tag ratio was changed from its current 9:1 ratio to say a 1:1 split and Utah stopped giving 200 tags to the Hunt Expo that would put more of a dent in point creep than switching to a 60/40 split on the draw. Looking at the 2021 resident LE elk applicants last year 56,078 people applied for 2756 elk tags. 8750 where first time applicants, a big portion our kids, that might not draw an elk tag for 35 years with the current point creep.

2021 Limited Entry Elk .png
 
Agree, if the current CWMU tag ratio was changed from its current 9:1 ratio to say a 1:1 split and Utah stopped giving 200 tags to the Hunt Expo that would put more of a dent in point creep than switching to a 60/40 split on the draw. Looking at the 2021 resident LE elk applicants last year 56,078 people applied for 2756 elk tags. 8750 where first time applicants, a big portion our kids, that might not draw an elk tag for 35 years with the current point creep.

View attachment 57593
If they made the CWMU give tags at a 1:1 ratio, they would all just shut them down, and go back to hunting general season dates. Most likely continuing to guided hunts on most of the properties, or selling trespass fee type hunts. That would make point creep even worse.
 
In person tag sales and do away with the multi season tags. Muzzy hunters are getting screwed with the multi season. Way more people "trying it out". And while we are at it. Change the archery season to the whole month of September. Problem solved. We would get more archers with the proper dates. Tags started selling faster with the introduction of the multi season tags.
You are right right, but ??? the DWR gets three times more revenue on multiseason tags.
 
Has anyone seen any of the money generated from the GREAT HUNT EXPO in salt lake go to any of the hunting units in the state?I personally spent time this summer on the Dutton
Pahvant Henerys La Sal San Juan,I never see any activity from the famed SFW doing anything to improve the wildlife areas that they say they are working on with all of the MILLIONS of dollars generated from the expo.Want to do something to help the wildlife in Utah get rid of the Hunt Expo and Don Peays SFW and close off at least one half of the dirt road systems in the State and make it a walk in or Horse ride access only and watch what would happen within two to three years for the Deer and Elk herds?? (Just my humble opinion)
 
How far do “millions” of dollars really go when you are talking about landscapes as big, rough, dry, and heavily used as they are in Utah? I would guess that weather, land use, and natural terrain dictate 99.9% of the overall variability in deer habitat quality.
 
Stupid idea, only being done to get the $10 application fees.

I have a solution to alleviate the strain on the DWR'S tag system and most likely make it so the tags don't sell out on day 1.

Make all over the counter tags true "over the counter" tags. Meaning: you can only buy them in person, no online sales for these tags.

You want a tag, then go pick one up, I guarantee they will not sell out on day one, and the tag vendors should like it because it brings people into there stores who are more likely to buy something else as well. Win/win in my book.
JakeH exactly! OTC tags should only be available over the counter.
 
They are defined as “general season“ hunts, not OTC. It is no different than deer. Now that all general hunts require lottery they might as well be combined with LE hunts, which would help fix point creep in a very big way. The state has too many people and not enough deer and elk to offer unlimited OTC tags, for deer and elk, AND also offer high quality LE hunts without a ridiculous amount of point creep. Can’t have it both ways folks. The only thing in the way fixing the system is the lifetime deer tags, but I the elk situation is clear of that.
 
Well seen this coming for sometime now...

LE elk units have ruined this state and has caused this problem! there are more than 70% of our elk herds is on LE units.
Look at the map we have 30 LE elk Units it's not hard to figure out what is going on here.

They proposed to change 3 of the LE units to general season and what did they do instead! change them to a ham's hunt still a LE unit (Covey did say this is what will happen if we don't Act now)well guess what he was right.

I think they should get rid of the 3 season tag and go unlimited on the elk tags for residence only .

But in order to do this we need to we have to change the structure on things.

This is where we need to focus on is 4 point or better on Elk that is how we get away with unlimited tags....

Leave the Archery hunt and the youth hunt where it's at.

Run the Muzzleloader elk hunt during the muzzleloader deer hunt with no scopes open sights only.

split the rifle hunt up into 3 - 5 day hunts.
So for instance.

I'm going of of this years calendar
#1 season hunt
10/9 - 10-13 then the animals get a 2 day break
#2 season hunt
10/16 - 10/20 then the animals get a 2 day break
#3 season hunt
10/23 - 10/27 this would be during the rifle deer hunt

I think this will a few things it will reduce over crowding in a big way.
and it will also give us opportunity to hunt every year.

If we would stop spike hunting in this state we would have more bulls on the landscape and the points creep would reduce in a big way.
 
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Agree, if the current CWMU tag ratio was changed from its current 9:1 ratio to say a 1:1 split and Utah stopped giving 200 tags to the Hunt Expo that would put more of a dent in point creep than switching to a 60/40 split on the draw. Looking at the 2021 resident LE elk applicants last year 56,078 people applied for 2756 elk tags. 8750 where first time applicants, a big portion our kids, that might not draw an elk tag for 35 years with the current point creep.

View attachment 57593
There is one big thing we can do to reduce the points creep but people don't care to fix it.

#1 quit hunting spikes this will fix a lot of the problems

#2 Top tier point holders get the tags none of this 50-50 or 60-40 split at all if someone turns there tags back in it goes to a secondary draw which everyone can apply unless your on the waiting period...

Back to spikes

I'm going to try and explain it how I see it

So lets do Manti as an example
Manti age objective is 5.5-6.0

If we harvest 50 spikes every year that is 50 less bulls I Guarantee this is higher.
update it shows in the annual report that 188 spikes get harvested alone on rifle and 19 during muzzleloader and 51 during archery so the total is. 258 I still think this is a lot higher...

but if we save 50 bulls every year and x that by 5.5 age objective =275 more tags that could get allocated out in 5.5 years.

I know this isn't accurate by any means but i just wanted to show this
Now take 275 and x it by the remaining 29 LE units and the total is 7,975 more tags available to our LE hunters.

We currently offer 2,756 tags now if you add the 7,975 to that the total is 10,731 its pretty easy to get rid of points creep.. no more 5 year waiting period and no more waiting 20 plus years to draw a tag.

Utah can grow elk we just struggle with deer....
 
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I don't hunt spikes but where are those 17k hunters going to go? There just going to jam up the any bull areas.
 
I don't hunt spikes but where are those 17k hunters going to go? There just going to jam up the any bull areas.
great question

Easy solution it got proposed earlier this year to open up some LE units to GE elk units and they shut it down to turn them right back into other LE units
Nine mile
South west desert north
Cache north
we could definitely add 3 corners to it.

by not hunting spikes we could get away with shutting these units down that i just listed.

That will help with crowding but in order for all this to work we have to do away with this Multi season hunt and restructure the dates a little.


Archery and youth runs as it is.

Muzzleloader either stays where it is or move it to the muzzy deer hunt with no scopes open sight only

Rifle hunt needs to be broken up into either 2 - 6 day hunts starts Saturday and ends Thursday and then the second rifle hunt starts the following Saturday and goes till Thursday.
 
great question

Easy solution it got proposed earlier this year to open up some LE units to GE elk units and they shut it down to turn them right back into other LE units
Nine mile
South west desert north
Cache north
we could definitely add 3 corners to it.

by not hunting spikes we could get away with shutting these units down that i just listed.

That will help with crowding but in order for all this to work we have to do away with this Multi season hunt and restructure the dates a little.


Archery and youth runs as it is.

Muzzleloader either stays where it is or move it to the muzzy deer hunt with no scopes open sight only

Rifle hunt needs to be broken up into either 2 - 6 day hunts starts Saturday and ends Thursday and then the second rifle hunt starts the following Saturday and goes till Thursday.
I wish ?
Something definitely needs to happen
 
Got an email from game and fish today related to these topics. The wildlife board voted to keep the over the counter elk tags as is so no draw. they also voted to stay at 50% for bonus point tags.

Check out the utah division of wildlife web site.
 
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There is one big thing we can do to reduce the points creep but people don't care to fix it.

#1 quit hunting spikes this will fix a lot of the problems

#2 Top tier point holders get the tags none of this 50-50 or 60-40 split at all if someone turns there tags back in it goes to a secondary draw which everyone can apply unless your on the waiting period...

Back to spikes

I'm going to try and explain it how I see it

So lets do Manti as an example
Manti age objective is 5.5-6.0

If we harvest 50 spikes every year that is 50 less bulls I Guarantee this is higher.
update it shows in the annual report that 188 spikes get harvested alone on rifle and 19 during muzzleloader and 51 during archery so the total is. 258 I still think this is a lot higher...

but if we save 50 bulls every year and x that by 5.5 age objective =275 more tags that could get allocated out in 5.5 years.

I know this isn't accurate by any means but i just wanted to show this
Now take 275 and x it by the remaining 29 LE units and the total is 7,975 more tags available to our LE hunters.

We currently offer 2,756 tags now if you add the 7,975 to that the total is 10,731 its pretty easy to get rid of points creep.. no more 5 year waiting period and no more waiting 20 plus years to draw a tag.

Utah can grow elk we just struggle with deer....
So you use the largest elk heed unit in the State to figure your numbers. Probably would take the bottom half of elk units numbers to equal the Manti elk numbers.
If you really want to do serious damage to the elk herds and the deer herds then start carrying a large percent of older bulls. It takes as much as 3 cows worth of feed and as much as 6 deer worth of feed to feed one mature bull.
Just my two cents
 
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