Utah Late Hunts changed??

Stubaby

Very Active Member
Messages
1,451
If the LE elk late hunts are gonzo and there’s now a late LE “HAMS” hunt and later archery hunt, then why do some elk hunts available for the expo show late any weapon like normal? What am I missing?

9E58AF51-B3C1-4464-AFC4-D5CEBE40C011.jpeg
 

elkhunterUT

Very Active Member
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2,258
As far as I know from the RAC and WB meetings, late rifle hunts are still a thing.

LE Elk Tag allocation percentages are broken down as follows:

Archery: 25%
Muzzy: 15%
Any Legal Weapon: 60%; with that 60% divided up as follows for the various ALW hunts: 10% early, 30% mid, 17% late, 3% multi-season
 

Stubaby

Very Active Member
Messages
1,451
As far as I know from the RAC and WB meetings, late rifle hunts are still a thing.

LE Elk Tag allocation percentages are broken down as follows:

Archery: 25%
Muzzy: 15%
Any Legal Weapon: 60%; with that 60% divided up as follows for the various ALW hunts: 10% early, 30% mid, 17% late, 3% multi-season

So when and how do the HAMS and late archery work?
 

elkhunterUT

Very Active Member
Messages
2,258
Here are the new dates for LE Elk hunts next year (2023):

  • Limited-entry elk archery: Aug. 23–Sept. 19, 2023
  • Limited-entry late-season archery elk: Dec. 2–17, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk muzzleloader: Sept. 25–Oct. 6, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk early any weapon: Sept. 20–24, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk HAMS/restricted weapons: Nov. 11–30, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk any legal weapon mid-season hunt: Oct. 7–19, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk late any weapon: Nov. 11-19 2023
The HAMS hunts have historically not been held on the “traditional” LE units.
 

tallelkchaser

Member
Messages
69
As far as I know from the RAC and WB meetings, late rifle hunts are still a thing.

LE Elk Tag allocation percentages are broken down as follows:

Archery: 25%
Muzzy: 15%
Any Legal Weapon: 60%; with that 60% divided up as follows for the various ALW hunts: 10% early, 30% mid, 17% late, 3% multi-season
So did the expo really get all these early rifle tags or will some of these actually be mid season rifle?
Seems as if this was all allocated before the elk plan changes so I am curious is these actually are what they say they are.
 

Stubaby

Very Active Member
Messages
1,451
Here are the new dates for LE Elk hunts next year (2023):

  • Limited-entry elk archery: Aug. 23–Sept. 19, 2023
  • Limited-entry late-season archery elk: Dec. 2–17, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk muzzleloader: Sept. 25–Oct. 6, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk early any weapon: Sept. 20–24, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk HAMS/restricted weapons: Nov. 11–30, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk any legal weapon mid-season hunt: Oct. 7–19, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk late any weapon: Nov. 11-19 2023
The HAMS hunts have historically not been held on the “traditional” LE units.

Ok. Thanks.

So are units like the FL, Manti, and Snatch going to have the HAMS and the late going on or is the HAMS still not being held on “traditional” units like you say.

Also what’s the allocation for that late season archery? Part of the early archery allocation.
 

DBG3285

Active Member
Messages
806
Here are the new dates for LE Elk hunts next year (2023):

  • Limited-entry elk archery: Aug. 23–Sept. 19, 2023
  • Limited-entry late-season archery elk: Dec. 2–17, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk muzzleloader: Sept. 25–Oct. 6, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk early any weapon: Sept. 20–24, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk HAMS/restricted weapons: Nov. 11–30, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk any legal weapon mid-season hunt: Oct. 7–19, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk late any weapon: Nov. 11-19 2023
The HAMS hunts have historically not been held on the “traditional” LE units.
This is what is shown on the DWR website.

Maybe I am missing something here??

75ABE87F-F914-473B-AAE8-21020FCC4FA1.jpeg
 

elkhunterUT

Very Active Member
Messages
2,258
I wouldn’t put too much stock in what was listed on the DWR website. Originally in that same press release, they did not list dates for the LE muzzleloader elk hunt, leading one to believe that hunt wasn’t happening. Lots of questions came in and they updated the info to show those dates and acknowledged it was a “miss”.

I think the same thing is happening here-the information is not complete so I guess we won’t really know what is happening for sure until the new application guidebook comes out for 2023, but I am almost certain the late any weapon hunt for LE elk was not removed and will still be an available hunt to apply for.
 

Vanilla

Long Time Member
Messages
3,005
From the RAC and Wildlife Board packet, and what was passed by the Board on December 3rd:

EFFA3F24-14FD-41E2-87CF-78733B90ADB0.jpeg


Seasons are set. All that is left is to determine how many permits each hunt will get, which won’t happen until May 4th.
 

Stubaby

Very Active Member
Messages
1,451
So are they pulling the allocated tags from the early archery seasons to make way for the super late? Any ideas on how many tags will be available for the late archery?
 

Vanilla

Long Time Member
Messages
3,005
I don’t think they’ll be pulling from anywhere. The new age objectives in the new elk plan will cause every unit in the state to have more permits.

The discussion was they would not do the full increase in year one but increase incrementally each year until they get up to the new permit numbers. That means they can add these hunts and permits without taking from somewhere else.
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,884
I can't make sense of it hopefully Epic covers it well. all I'm sure of is a NR with 25 points is going to get screwed somehow.
 

gundog2

Active Member
Messages
282
I can't make sense of it hopefully Epic covers it well. all I'm sure of is a NR with 25 points is going to get screwed somehow.
A bunch of high-point holders are going to get screwed. Even residents like myself, with 24 points, are trying to figure out how to navigate this situation. There might be opportunity to cash out on a mid-season hunt in one of the better units, but you’re going to compete with a mob of general season spike hunters squatting on the best camping and glassing spots. I’m thinking that early-season hunts with lower age objectives might be the best way out if they reduce the number of hunters, but it is not clear if that will happen.
 

Deerlove

Long Time Member
Messages
5,686
A bunch of high-point holders are going to get screwed. Even residents like myself, with 24 points, are trying to figure out how to navigate this situation. There might be opportunity to cash out on a mid-season hunt in one of the better units, but you’re going to compete with a mob of general season spike hunters squatting on the best camping and glassing spots. I’m thinking that early-season hunts with lower age objectives might be the best way out if they reduce the number of hunters, but it is not clear if that will happen. Gun theres not as many Spike Hunters off the beaten path as you might think
 

huntin50

Very Active Member
Messages
1,476
Does anyone know if they will have mid season elk rifle hunts on HAMS units, where last year it was just archery, spike elk, and HAMS hunts?
thanks
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,687
So are they pulling the allocated tags from the early archery seasons to make way for the super late? Any ideas on how many tags will be available for the late archery?

So are they pulling the allocated tags from the early archery seasons to make way for the super late? Any ideas on how many tags will be available for the late archery?
The late archery tags are in addition to the early and do not pull from any of the previously stated allotments.

It will be 1% of the total tag allocated or 5 tags whichever is more. And those tags do not go against the archery tag quota % of 25%. They are in addition to that number.

If the LE elk late hunts are gonzo and there’s now a late LE “HAMS” hunt and later archery hunt, then why do some elk hunts available for the expo show late any weapon like normal? What am I missing?

View attachment 98236
The late hunts are not gone, there is actually more units with them now. There are only a few units with HAMs hunts on them, and less than there previously was as they took a few and made them general season.

Ok. Thanks.

So are units like the FL, Manti, and Snatch going to have the HAMS and the late going on or is the HAMS still not being held on “traditional” units like you say.
No the units that did not have a HAMs unit before this year will not have one this year. They did not add any new HAMs hunts


So did the expo really get all these early rifle tags or will some of these actually be mid season rifle?
Seems as if this was all allocated before the elk plan changes so I am curious is these actually are what they say they are.
yes they did, and no they wont. The expo tag contract was already established before the changes were made so this will be the last year with this many early rifle tags at the expo. I got that info from the Big Game Coordinator himself.

Hope that cleared some things up for folks.
 

Shiras

Member
Messages
28
Have better have your ducks in a row if you want the early rifle with a 5-day hunt
Imagine needing more than 5 days to kill a rutting bull elk with a rifle capable of shooting 500+ yards…. Surprising the success rates aren’t 100% every year.

And then add in all the “helpers” these tag holders have running around the entire unit ruining things for everyone else. How anyone eats a tag is beyond me. But they do, every year. And then the excuses about how all the big bulls are already dead because the archery hunters killed them all or it’s the DWRs fault, start flyin! 😂
 

Shiras

Member
Messages
28
They should do the late LE archery tag OTC, but you lose any elk points you have and make it a 10 year wait period before they can apply again. You clear a lot guys out and keep them out for a while! I’d do it. So would every other flatbrim blow hard out there who thinks they are a big deal on YouTube.
 

elkhunterUT

Very Active Member
Messages
2,258
They should do the late LE archery tag OTC, but you lose any elk points you have and make it a 10 year wait period before they can apply again. You clear a lot guys out and keep them out for a while! I’d do it. So would every other flatbrim blow hard out there who thinks they are a big deal on YouTube.
You can already do that every year if you want on the Wasatch front into December (and unfortunately many flat brimmers are doing it)

I doubt many would do what you proposed with a 10 year wait and losing your points on a late archery hunt with success rates in the single digits. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

smokepolejohnson

Very Active Member
Messages
1,164
They should do the late LE archery tag OTC, but you lose any elk points you have and make it a 10 year wait period before they can apply again. You clear a lot guys out and keep them out for a while! I’d do it. So would every other flatbrim blow hard out there who thinks they are a big deal on YouTube.
Id burn my more than double digit flat brims for a hunt like that, have it mirror the OTC bison hunt, that clean out some points in a hurry.
 

Shiras

Member
Messages
28
You can already do that every year if you want on the Wasatch front into December (and unfortunately many flat brimmers are doing it)

I doubt many would do what you proposed with a 10 year wait and losing your points on a late archery hunt with success rates in the single digits. 🤷🏻‍♂️
You’d have more than you think. I promise. Especially if they got to pick their unit. Put a cap on each unit, let’s say 30 tags, do it on a FC, FS basis, just like when the general tags go on sale. I doubt you’d get many with 10+ points giving up their points and buying tags, but I’m certain you’d have a whole pile of 5 points of less guys who’d do it. Let’s say success is 5-9%? So 2 tags would get filled? You kill that many bulls on a highway each month in every unit. That’s nothing. More money for the division. More opportunity for hunters. More people pulled from the draw for an extended period of time and helps with point creep. Win/win/win
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,687
You’d have more than you think. I promise. Especially if they got to pick their unit. Put a cap on each unit, let’s say 30 tags, do it on a FC, FS basis, just like when the general tags go on sale. I doubt you’d get many with 10+ points giving up their points and buying tags, but I’m certain you’d have a whole pile of 5 points of less guys who’d do it. Let’s say success is 5-9%? So 2 tags would get filled? You kill that many bulls on a highway each month in every unit. That’s nothing. More money for the division. More opportunity for hunters. More people pulled from the draw for an extended period of time and helps with point creep. Win/win/win
It actually does nothing for point creep, it just pushed it somewhere else. Now you got a pile of guys putting in for deer or antelope. People forget that part of the equation.

There is no need for waiting periods when you limit people to one species. I wish they would do away with the waiting period and just let people go for what they want to hunt.
 

Shiras

Member
Messages
28
It actually does nothing for point creep, it just pushed it somewhere else. Now you got a pile of guys putting in for deer or antelope. People forget that part of the equation.

There is no need for waiting periods when you limit people to one species. I wish they would do away with the waiting period and just let people go for what they want to hunt.
We are already limited to 1 species. Unless you are talking about reducing opportunities even more and making people just pick 1, regardless of GS, LE or OIL.

And every year deer and pronghorn guys draw tags and shift into the elk draw. It all works out. And when you can draw a LE archery pronghorn with 1 point and a late LE muzzy deer with 3-7 points for a lot of units, so what if they shift to other pools when they draw the elk tag. That’s a non issue. If you want to hunt LE deer, the opportunity is there. If you want to hunt LE pronghorn, the opportunity is there. I suppose the same could be said for elk, but those options are much smaller than the deer and pronghorn if your goal is just to get a tag
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,687
We are already limited to 1 species. Unless you are talking about reducing opportunities even more and making people just pick 1, regardless of GS, LE or OIL.

And every year deer and pronghorn guys draw tags and shift into the elk draw. It all works out. And when you can draw a LE archery pronghorn with 1 point and a late LE muzzy deer with 3-7 points for a lot of units, so what if they shift to other pools when they draw the elk tag. That’s a non issue. If you want to hunt LE deer, the opportunity is there. If you want to hunt LE pronghorn, the opportunity is there. I suppose the same could be said for elk, but those options are much smaller than the deer and pronghorn if your goal is just to get a tag
I know they already do that now, that is what I am saying, but the difference is there is a lot more LE elk tags and units than there is LE deer tags now you want to double the elk waiting period and that will just push even more people into the deer pool. I am saying do away with the waiting period and let people put in for what they want to put in for every year, why force people to go for deer when they would rather hunt elk? A waiting period makes sense when you are allowed to put in for all the species, (which I do not want them to do) But how it is now it just causes point creep in the other animal's hunts.

What LE deer tag can you draw with 3-7 points? unless you are talking about the late general muzzy hunts, I guess there might be a few of those, but while they use your LE points, I do not consider those true LE hunts, but even most of them still take 8+ points to draw.
 

MrShane

Active Member
Messages
117
As far as I know from the RAC and WB meetings, late rifle hunts are still a thing.

LE Elk Tag allocation percentages are broken down as follows:

Archery: 25%
Muzzy: 15%
Any Legal Weapon: 60%; with that 60% divided up as follows for the various ALW hunts: 10% early, 30% mid, 17% late, 3% multi-season
Any ideas on dates for Youth Any Bull?
 

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