Utah Mule Deer Herd Trend

highfastflyer

Very Active Member
Messages
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A little bit of optimism and positive trend for Utah’s Mule deer herd by two upbeat DWR biologists. Worth 20 mins. If you have some free time.
 
Results on the ground today show just how bad dwr "models" are. That podcast was last Feb.

Models are only as good as the numbers put in, and it's pretty apparent, the, the numbers are way off.

The actual result of the DWR models, is the models suck.
 
Results on the ground today show just how bad dwr "models" are. That podcast was last Feb.

Models are only as good as the numbers put in, and it's pretty apparent, the, the numbers are way off.

The actual result of the DWR models, is the models suck.
They actually discuss which model they use and who developed it. It is the same one Colorado utilizes. Models and modeling though I agree aren’t the whole picture.
 
They actually discuss which model they use and who developed it. It is the same one Colorado utilizes. Models and modeling though I agree aren’t the whole picture.


Garbage in garbage out.

There are some real good biologists, but there are a handful of bad. After getting inflated numbers year after year, then seeing the results, you'd think the inflated numbers would need addressing. It doesn't seem hard to figure out bad counts/counters vs end result.

So I agree that's not the models fault entirely.
 
THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

Ya!

That Fixed Everything!
 
Remember 2 years ago when the DWR said the deer numbers were as high as they have ever been in recent history? Only to get called out by every deer tag holder in the state that just got their azz handed to them a 2 weeks before that, then a month later they changed their mind and the numbers were back in the hole again?

don’t believe the story they are always trying to sell. Fake news doesn’t just target trump and politics.
 
Wondering how Kentucky can go from about harvesting 1,000 deer to harvesting over 125,000 deer a year and have good elk herds too. While the Utah DWR can't even keep wolf's alive.
 
Is it possible that the numbers were fudged to try and help SFW look good for Option 2?

It would be bad and SFW would have some real explaining to do if the deer herd was in the dumps after Option 2.
 
Is it possible that the numbers were fudged to try and help SFW look good for Option 2?

It would be bad and SFW would have some real explaining to do if the deer herd was in the dumps after Option 2.
Lmao! Option 2 was never actually used. A tool that was bought, brought home and tossed on the work bench by and a lazy agency that has never properly managed our deer herds. Vanilla...was it the SFW that wanted Opt 2???
 
If The Deer Herd WAS in the Dumps?

Was?


Is it possible that the numbers were fudged to try and help SFW look good for Option 2?

It would be bad and SFW would have some real explaining to do if the deer herd was in the dumps after Option 2.
 
Vanilla...was it the SFW that wanted Opt 2???

Yes, SFW strongly supported Option 2.

I’m old enough to remember how it all went down, including the giant ceremonial check delivered as a giant middle finger to anyone willing to question Peay’s authority.
 
Yes, SFW strongly supported Option 2.

I’m old enough to remember how it all went down, including the giant ceremonial check delivered as a giant middle finger to anyone willing to question Peay’s authority.
Lol....ok....those that know....know.
 
Lol....ok....those that know....know.

I’m not sure why every one of your retorts on these things has to be a condescending veiled comment completely void of anything useful. Actually, I’m pretty sure why they are that way…

I was in meetings. I had discussions with people. I watched the public spectacle and debacle this turned into. I saw DWR biologists speak against the proposal. So if all that was some elaborate plan and a ruse to cover up for the real puppet master and SFW was just nobly taking arrows for them, then spill the beans. You won’t, because you can’t. Those of us that know….know why.
 
I’m not sure why every one of your retorts on these things has to be a condescending veiled comment completely void of anything useful. Actually, I’m pretty sure why they are that way…

I was in meetings. I had discussions with people. I watched the public spectacle and debacle this turned into. I saw DWR biologists speak against the proposal. So if all that was some elaborate plan and a ruse to cover up for the real puppet master and SFW was just nobly taking arrows for them, then spill the beans. You won’t, because you can’t. Those of us that know….know why.
I watched it as well. Many things behind the scenes were done for this to go through. The DWR as a whole opposed it. Yet here we are, 9 years later, and things have only gotten worse.
 
For 49 Years & Counting it's got Worse!

Too Many TARDS Wanting to Kill a PISSCUTTER Every Year!

And Nobody With Enough GUTS To Stand Up & Straighten This SShhiittt Show Up!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

She's Been Milked Just a little More than Enough!
 
I’m not sure why every one of your retorts on these things has to be a condescending veiled comment completely void of anything useful. Actually, I’m pretty sure why they are that way…

I was in meetings. I had discussions with people. I watched the public spectacle and debacle this turned into. I saw DWR biologists speak against the proposal. So if all that was some elaborate plan and a ruse to cover up for the real puppet master and SFW was just nobly taking arrows for them, then spill the beans. You won’t, because you can’t. Those of us that know….know why.
Vanilla,
The battle happen long before SFW jumped on board. In fact it was a fight that had actually started before SFW was even around. There were several public pushes and the facts are that SFW and Don particularly voted and pushed against smaller units and focused management. Thus Dedicated Hunter program and Regional units (both with Don and SFW actually did support and push for). About the time Opt 2 came about there was an opportunity and alignment that allowed those that wanted multiple unit management to make a big push. They made the push and out of the gate SFW was silent...not until SFW realized that Opt 2 was pretty much a done deal did they actually become vocal and show support. The DWR never did want the Opt 2 tool and thus tossed it aside rather than utilize it. The SFW didn’t really want it either, thus they never made any big push to get the DWR to use it. Opt 2 is still a very viable management tool if it was actually utilized. But hey what do I know... I wasn’t at the same meetings you were. ;)
 
For 49 Years & Counting it's got Worse!

Too Many TARDS Wanting to Kill a PISSCUTTER Every Year!

And Nobody With Enough GUTS To Stand Up & Straighten This SShhiittt Show Up!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

$$$!

SSS!

$$$!

And More $$$!

She's Been Milked Just a little More than Enough!
So now Hell Right is not a thing? It's all about people shooting pisscutters instead?

It absolutely blows my mind that people still think the salvation of mule deer is tag cuts.

Are they doing well in any state? No they are not. Cut all the tags you want. The decline will more than likely continue.

Do we need to kill the very last one? No. Can we reduce tags to the point that a few people get the opportunity to kill the biggest, baddest current champion? We probably can.

Is that what everyone wants? Yippee I get to hunt every 30 years. What a legacy we are leaving.
 
So now Hell Right is not a thing? It's all about people shooting pisscutters instead?

I Never said that!

It absolutely blows my mind that people still think the salvation of mule deer is tag cuts.

No,Don't Cut Tags!

Just Keep Finding Ways To Hunt Them Harder & Longer!

Are they doing well in any state? No they are not. Cut all the tags you want. The decline will more than likely continue.
I Never said they Were Doing Well in Any State!

PISS POOR Management in Every State along with other Issuers!


Do we need to kill the very last one? No. Can we reduce tags to the point that a few people get the opportunity to kill the biggest, baddest current champion? We probably can.
How Many BIG Bucks Do You Think are Left in this State?

Is that what everyone wants? Yippee I get to hunt every 30 years. What a legacy we are leaving.
If It Keeps Going like it has for the last 49 Years!

You Might only Get To Hunt PISSCUTTERS every 30 Years!
 
Vanilla,
The battle happen long before SFW jumped on board. In fact it was a fight that had actually started before SFW was even around. There were several public pushes and the facts are that SFW and Don particularly voted and pushed against smaller units and focused management. Thus Dedicated Hunter program and Regional units (both with Don and SFW actually did support and push for). About the time Opt 2 came about there was an opportunity and alignment that allowed those that wanted multiple unit management to make a big push. They made the push and out of the gate SFW was silent...not until SFW realized that Opt 2 was pretty much a done deal did they actually become vocal and show support. The DWR never did want the Opt 2 tool and thus tossed it aside rather than utilize it. The SFW didn’t really want it either, thus they never made any big push to get the DWR to use it. Opt 2 is still a very viable management tool if it was actually utilized. But hey what do I know... I wasn’t at the same meetings you were. ;)


Nothing says leadership like waiting until it's "a done deal", then supporting it. Sure is good $fw gives voice to "the average Joe"?
 
Vanilla,
Did that answer not fit your narrative???

It actually didn’t answer anything. You talked in circles with a coy little “I know something you don’t know,” like you always do. Yet never actually answered anything. Again, as usual.

And I don’t have a narrative. Schemers have narratives they are interested in to help their schemes. I’m not a schemer.
 
Cutting tags is about the only tool the wildlife management agencies actually have. All the rest is wishful thinking.
 
It actually didn’t answer anything. You talked in circles with a coy little “I know something you don’t know,” like you always do. Yet never actually answered anything. Again, as usual.

And I don’t have a narrative. Schemers have narratives they are interested in to help their schemes. I’m not a schemer.
No I was pretty clear with my comment. Opt 2 was a done deal before SFW ever jumped on board. Individuals outside of SFW had tried to push multi units in the state of Utah for a long time. Long before SFW was around. SFW fought against that change until they saw the alignment on WB with those that had tried to get it implemented for years.
Your agenda is always to lay blame on SFW. Even when that’s not even the factual case. It’s your agenda to an extent that even when I give a clear answer you can’t comprehend it.
 
THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

THE HERD IS GETTING BIGGER/BETTER!

Especially out at the Book Cliffs! ?
 
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