Utah Trail Cam Ban

The Last Pic the Guy Got Before BLooD Left the Scene!:D

BLooD Trail Cam.jpg
 
I can hunt all year out east and never see a camera. But out west its like litter on the water holes. Would support a ban 2 weeks before the start of any season.
 
Good thing I don’t use trail cams to track wildlife. If this law passes it has nothing to do with tracking people in my hunting area. That’s all I use mine for. I like to see if people are coming through. If an animal gets captured on camera, that is an accidental, non intentional use of the cam. ?
 
Poor argument. It's impossible to enforce shooting deer with a bow the night before the opener, but that doesn't mean it should be legal.
Not really. Not really even an arguement. Most laws on the books are a result of a politician pandering for votes then next time they beg the public to get their jobs back.

If these questions are asked, idiotic bills wouldn't even make it out of committee.

Only a fool thinks they need a law for everything...
 
Not really. Not really even an arguement. Most laws on the books are a result of a politician pandering for votes then next time they beg the public to get their jobs back.

If these questions are asked, idiotic bills wouldn't even make it out of committee.

Only a fool thinks they need a law for everything...
Welp, I guess we've got another Tristate here arguing against laws protecting wildlife.

And this one because it might be difficult to enforce. Why even have season dates and bag limits at all. I guess all of us who abide by the law even when we won't get caught are now fools.
 
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Difficulty in enforcing is a valid consideration, but shouldn’t determine if something is good policy or not.

If something is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce, then I think it is per se bad policy. We shouldn’t have laws on the books that we are completely unable to enforce. But just because it’s hard to enforce doesn’t mean it’s bad policy.

This one would be very tough to enforce as written. They could change that by declaring any camera on a tree after said dates is legally abandoned property. That is an extreme step that I’m not sure I actually support, but it would be the easiest way to enforce this policy if it passed.
 
Welp, I guess we've got another Tristate here arguing against laws protecting wildlife.

And this one because it might be difficult to enforce. Why even have season dates and bag limits at all. I guess all of us who abide by the law even when we won't get caught are now fools.
Welp, what we have here is someone confused what protecting wildlife really is. Using, or not using, a laser range finder is not protecting or harming wildlife in anyway. If said laser burned a hole in them, your arguement would have validity.

A game camera disrupting the ability of wildlife to go about their business of survival unfettered for a period of time is another matter.

If hunting is a means of herd management, the more proficient the predator, the easier it is to meet management quotas. Knowing yardage prior to shot execution allows you, as the hunter, to decide to take the shot or not based on your ability.

As far as tech in general being ostracized as poor wildlife game laws, better saddle up Hoss, because your 4x4 hurts wildlife by helping you get yourself up to them without expending as much effort.

Disagree just to disagree. I'll wait...
 
Welp, what we have here is someone confused what protecting wildlife really is. Using, or not using, a laser range finder is not protecting or harming wildlife in anyway. If said laser burned a hole in them, your arguement would have validity.

A game camera disrupting the ability of wildlife to go about their business of survival unfettered for a period of time is another matter.

If hunting is a means of herd management, the more proficient the predator, the easier it is to meet management quotas. Knowing yardage prior to shot execution allows you, as the hunter, to decide to take the shot or not based on your ability.

As far as tech in general being ostracized as poor wildlife game laws, better saddle up Hoss, because your 4x4 hurts wildlife by helping you get yourself up to them without expending as much effort.

Disagree just to disagree. I'll wait...
Lasers burning holes in wildlife, 4x4s, and shot execution? You're all over the place.
 
I contend that trail cams result in the death of more animals than long range shooters with rangefinders.

Trail cams help you “hunt”. Long range rifles help you “kill”. Rifle/rangefinder tech does nothing to help you find game. And for western hunting on public, finding game is the hard part.

I think we need to go easier on tech that helps you hunt (find game)
 
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Maybe someone else has posted this, but this will only really hurt us DIY self guys more, that are limited in time and money to scout. It will benefit the guided hunts and outfitters that have time and money to be in the hills all morning and evening. What will be consequence of using one? Will it only be big enough fine that poor person would not use one and someone with money they won’t care?
 
Maybe someone else has posted this, but this will only really hurt us DIY self guys more, that are limited in time and money to scout.
Scout? The bill still allows anybody to have cameras on the mountain until August 1.

We can all still know what's in the area before the hunt starts. We just have to pull cameras before guys actually start releasing arrows.
 
Scout? The bill still allows anybody to have cameras on the mountain until August 1.

We can all still know what's in the area before the hunt starts. We just have to pull cameras before guys actually start releasing arrows.
For you archery hunters yes, but rifle hunters no
 
For you archery hunters yes, but rifle hunters no
Rifle hunters can run cameras until August 1st too. Same with muzzleloader folks.

After August 1st, guys will have to be in the field to find animals or check water holes for tracks, rutting areas for scrapes, and other tactics that were common before the proliferation of trail cameras and SD cards. It's the same as several other states, and they do just fine.
 
Maybe someone else has posted this, but this will only really hurt us DIY self guys more, that are limited in time and money to scout. It will benefit the guided hunts and outfitters that have time and money to be in the hills all morning and evening. What will be consequence of using one? Will it only be big enough fine that poor person would not use one and someone with money they won’t care?

Don’t know how anyone even hunted 20 years ago. Prob not worth the trouble to put in for those hunts
 
Face the music in Utah though. We manage for 15-17 bucks. Units are there based on DWR data. If you believe the data then you don’t need to save bucks, why does it matter if we are successful if this is the management plan?
I am for more buck on the landscape but if we go over the 17 bucks then more tags are just given out.
I have always been a proponent of throwing buck to doe ratio out the door and only have a minimum like 15 but who cares if it gets to 45, if the land can handle it.
Mule deer management needs to change.
 
Hey cant!

It's needed Change for 49 years now!

Oh We've Had Change Alright!

The Buck to Doe Ratio Management is the Poorest Way of Management for Mule Deer Ever!

"That Little PISSCUTTER with NUBS & MILK ON HIS LIPS is a Buck"

Count Him!

Enforce "HELL-RIGHT" or throw the Towel In!

Face the music in Utah though. We manage for 15-17 bucks. Units are there based on DWR data. If you believe the data then you don’t need to save bucks, why does it matter if we are successful if this is the management plan?
I am for more buck on the landscape but if we go over the 17 bucks then more tags are just given out.
I have always been a proponent of throwing buck to doe ratio out the door and only have a minimum like 15 but who cares if it gets to 45, if the land can handle it.
Mule deer management needs to change.
 
You guys know this has nothing to do with our general season deer hunts, this has everything to do with LE hunts and that Piss on average joe was finding some of the bigger bucks and bulls that the outfitters have been watching, convince me I am wrong, nobody cares about the General Season units, if it was about all units about helping animals, the statement should be and we would like to also ban, radio's, range finders, spotting scopes.
Anyone using more than 1 guide, hell they limit dogs on bears, why not guides helping hunters.
 
You guys know this has nothing to do with our general season deer hunts, this has everything to do with LE hunts and that Piss on average joe was finding some of the bigger bucks and bulls that the outfitters have been watching, convince me I am wrong, nobody cares about the General Season units, if it was about all units about helping animals, the statement should be and we would like to also ban, radio's, range finders, spotting scopes.
Anyone using more than 1 guide, hell they limit dogs on bears, why not guides helping hunters.
This will affect the guides just as hard or probably harder then the average joe. Guides relying on cameras to keep tabs on where the game is during the season will now not be able to cover every portion of the unit every day of the week, they will have to spread out and physical be at those spots early in the morning and late in the evening to keep tabs on whatever animals they are interested in, also no more night time surveillance after the game goes nocturnal. That alone will be huge for the bigger more mature animals. How many times is it a night time photo that reveals a bomber buck or bull is in the area.

Ultimately i feel this will be positive for the animals, and the mature animals in particular. I've been a little on the fence but feel like i can support this effort.
 
I didn’t show them anything, I just saw the proposed legislation and am passing it along. I think you might be underestimating how much of an impact this is going to have on hunting success if this law is enforced. (Big “if” - I know)

This would be significant. For better or for worse probably depends on exactly how many trail cameras you run and if they send the photos to your phone so you never even have to leave the house.

Yeah bessy, this won’t solve all the issues. But this one will have a large impact on hunting success. Less animals killed...isn’t that what you want?
Obviously many of you hunt different areas than I do. No cell service where I go. Nothing being sent to my phone. If you don't all realize this is just one more step against hunting in general. It don't seem like a big deal, then next year or two the dates change. Then an all together ban. Then on to the next thing. Then on to the long range guns, the range finders, the binoculars, compound bows. Don't **** yourselves this is just a step in the wrong direction.
 
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Obviously many of you hunt different areas than I do. No cell service where I go. Nothing being sent to my phone. If you don't all realize this is just one more step against hunting in general. It don't seem like a big deal, then next year or two the dates change. Then an all together ban. Then on to the next thing. Then on to the long range guns, the range finders, the binoculars, compound bows. Don't **** yourselves this is just a step in the wrong direction.
So by that logic we can't do anything but keep plugging away the way we are, no changes to anything or we lose everything.......

Ok then.
 
Obviously many of you hunt different areas than I do. No cell service where I go. Nothing being sent to my phone. If you don't all realize this is just one more step against hunting in general. It don't seem like a big deal, then next year or two the dates change. Then an all together ban. Then on to the next thing. Then on to the long range guns, the range finders, the binoculars, compound bows. Don't **** yourselves this is just a step in the wrong direction.
I’d like to see and have a chance at bigger bucks like I used to, rather than watch the herds decline to nothing. The last few years have been terrible in the areas that I hunt. Quality is gone. Turret twisters are everywhere. Ban the long range guns. Make everything open sights.
 
Let me explain this again. Utah has a mule deer plan that won’t allow buck populations to grow, they are managed for either 15-17 or 18-20 on general season units. Most if not all units are at there mark. Banning cameras to save a buck will do nothing in Utah, the plans will not allow buck population to grow. If we want more bucks on the landscape you have to focus on making changes where it will help, and to help Utah you have to get rid of buck to doe ratios and manage units different. Let me be loud and clear again...Utah’s deer plan will not allow more bucks....banning cameras won’t help....If we go above 15-17 or 18-20 the DWR has to give out more deer permits to bring the buck population back down....change the plan to make the difference.....
 
Let me explain this again. Utah has a mule deer plan that won’t allow buck populations to grow, they are managed for either 15-17 or 18-20 on general season units. Most if not all units are at there mark. Banning cameras to save a buck will do nothing in Utah, the plans will not allow buck population to grow. If we want more bucks on the landscape you have to focus on making changes where it will help, and to help Utah you have to get rid of buck to doe ratios and manage units different. Let me be loud and clear again...Utah’s deer plan will not allow more bucks....banning cameras won’t help....If we go above 15-17 or 18-20 the DWR has to give out more deer permits to bring the buck population back down....change the plan to make the difference.....
That’s one of the more logical posts I’ve seen on this topic so far
 
Let me explain this again. Utah has a mule deer plan that won’t allow buck populations to grow, they are managed for either 15-17 or 18-20 on general season units. Most if not all units are at there mark. Banning cameras to save a buck will do nothing in Utah, the plans will not allow buck population to grow. If we want more bucks on the landscape you have to focus on making changes where it will help, and to help Utah you have to get rid of buck to doe ratios and manage units different. Let me be loud and clear again...Utah’s deer plan will not allow more bucks....banning cameras won’t help....If we go above 15-17 or 18-20 the DWR has to give out more deer permits to bring the buck population back down....change the plan to make the difference.....
Banning camera's and bait have absolutely nothing to do with rebuilding our deer numbers.
 
Banning camera's and bait have absolutely nothing to do with rebuilding our deer numbers.
I know that, but the hype of everyone thinking it’s going to save a buck isn’t going to happen because in Utah it won’t happen because of the plan, we will not see more bucks than the plan will allow,
 
I know that, but the hype of everyone thinking it’s going to save a buck isn’t going to happen because in Utah it won’t happen because of the plan, we will not see more bucks than the plan will allow,
It's not about saving a buck either, it's about finally drawing some lines in the sand about "fair chase" and technology.
Most of this stuff is being capitalized on by big money trophy hunting on public land animals.
 
An example of why I would like to see technology restricted on hunts:

I was hunting with a buddy, watching a deep, cliffy canyon that held big bucks. We located an absolute wall mount. Problem was, he was bedded 700 yards from us. So we came up with a plan to skirt the rim of the canyon and drop down through a chute to get within 200 yards.
In the mean time, a turret twister pulls up with his wife and they small talk with us as they scan the canyon below. We tell them we have a bedded buck that we’re going after. They spot a nice 3x4 and decide to set up for the 600 yard poke. (Not knowing how BIG the buck is we were going after). The guy dials gun, gives it to wife, she shoots deer but buck doesn't go down. At that point, our buck stands up and we’re all trying to keep tabs on where he’s going when another shot rings out and I see dust kick up around the buck we were going after! They saw our buck and said screw the 3x4 at that point and just had to have that monster buck instead!

I confront the SOB and ask them why they are taking another shot at a different buck when they already wounded the first! He says oh we didn’t. We were just finishing off our buck. A heated argument ensued.

Our buck cleared the canyon to live another day. Words were exchanged and I told this guy and his wife they had better get their azz’s down there, find and recover their deer or I’d get the authorities involved.

I stuck around to baby sit them. I bet that woman quit hunting after that day! That was a nasty hike to “hopefully” recover a 3x4.

That’s why I do not appreciate the turret twisting cannons. Very few respect their capabilities. Everyone thinks, “just dial and shoot.”
Trail cams and other technology enable wildlife harassment at the expense of these creatures just trying to survive.

There’s a right and a wrong way to use all technology. Hard to regulate the wrong way so you ban it!
 
Didn't somebody post a montage of long range kill shots from best of the west called "Dial it. Dump'em."

Some of the shots were so bad they hit them in the head. Because we all know when you hunt OIL sheep tags you aim for the head if its under 1000 yards.?
 
Hey BLooD!

I Have a Similar Story!

Several Years ago Me & Jr was headed up to Hunt Bucks!

We Start in the Bottom & Start Hiking up the Ridge!

We Spot a PISSCUTTER on the Hillside & My Son says:Dad We need To Spook the Buck just a little so He doesn't get shot!

I Said:No!

If He's still on this Open Face when We Hike back down out of here We Might Walk His Direction & get Him out of Harms Way,but I Don't wanna Spook anything above us where We'll be Hunting!

So We Make Our Hike,seen a couple Medium Sized Bucks And started heading back down!

We Get back down to where it Opens up a little Bit & I can see a TURRET TWISTER below us!

He Doesn't see us!

But He does have the PISSCUTTER Spotted!

We Dropped off the edge of the Ridge & We got just below Him & Watched!

The Scope is 1/2 as long as His Gun!

He's all Set Up & We're Thinking:He Surely Ain't gonna Shoot that Little MOTL Buck is He?

150 Yard Shot,KABOOM!

KA-WHOP!

You didn't need to Guess where that Hit!

The Loudest GUT-SHOT I've ever Heard!

So We Keep watching the Shooter!

He Sits there for a While,gathers His Ssshhiiiitt up & Starts walking toward us/back down to His Wheeler!

I Step out in Front of Him & Ask Him if He's gonna Retrieve His Trophy Buck?

What F'N Buck? He Says!

I Said the Little PISSCUTTER I Seen You Just shoot on the Hillside!

He Was PISSED!

I Tells Him:

You're Gonna Take Care & Retrieve it Or I'll make a Phone Call & Have Your Ass Arrested!

The Attitude was BAD!

We Wasted 1/2 the Day Watching Him & Making Sure He Took His Trophy Out!

This Is How ARROGANT This PRICK WAS:

When He finally got the 65 Pound Trophy down to His Wheeler!

He Tied the Head to the Rear Rack on His Wheeler & Drug it for a few Miles behind the Wheeler back to His Truck!

Instead of just throwing it up on the Rack!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!

This JACK-ASS was not Happy with Me!

Makes You Wonder How Much BS He's Pulled off in His Day when nobody was watching?
 
This law is very much a hunter management law, not a game management law. And cantkillathing is right, to make a difference in herds you have to start managing deer/elk, not hunters.

But this law is not about herd numbers. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think the sponsor has mislead anyone on his motives here. This is about restricting hunters, not managing game. The question simply is do we need the restriction? That is a tough question to answer and how you feel probably depends upon where you hunt.
 
You are making to big a deal out of it. The Plastic crap does not belong in the forest. You get rid of them now, you won’t have every radical environmental group hanging them On trees, or getting in your face when the Wolves start popping up. Think Ahead. Plus your hunting maybe more pleasurable when you don’t know every animal or hunters that are out in the woods.
 
This is about restricting hunters, not managing game. The question simply is do we need the restriction?


Do you remember when you would go hunting and part of the hunting was getting away? Feeling free again. Not having a boss, a woman, or an over restricting government agency up your a55 every minute.

Now we hunters have become everything we tried to go to the woods to get away from. We sit and watch and pick apart everything all the other hunters do and decide how we are going to sick big government on them with some new laws or regulations. Kind of a "I'll fix them" attitude.
 
Hey BLooD!

I Have a Similar Story!

Several Years ago Me & Jr was headed up to Hunt Bucks!

We Start in the Bottom & Start Hiking up the Ridge!

We Spot a PISSCUTTER on the Hillside & My Son says:Dad We need To Spook the Buck just a little so He doesn't get shot!

I Said:No!

If He's still on this Open Face when We Hike back down out of here We Might Walk His Direction & get Him out of Harms Way,but I Don't wanna Spook anything above us where We'll be Hunting!

So We Make Our Hike,seen a couple Medium Sized Bucks And started heading back down!

We Get back down to where it Opens up a little Bit & I can see a TURRET TWISTER below us!

He Doesn't see us!

But He does have the PISSCUTTER Spotted!

We Dropped off the edge of the Ridge & We got just below Him & Watched!

The Scope is 1/2 as long as His Gun!

He's all Set Up & We're Thinking:He Surely Ain't gonna Shoot that Little MOTL Buck is He?

150 Yard Shot,KABOOM!

KA-WHOP!

You didn't need to Guess where that Hit!

The Loudest GUT-SHOT I've ever Heard!

So We Keep watching the Shooter!

He Sits there for a While,gathers His Ssshhiiiitt up & Starts walking toward us/back down to His Wheeler!

I Step out in Front of Him & Ask Him if He's gonna Retrieve His Trophy Buck?

What F'N Buck? He Says!

I Said the Little PISSCUTTER I Seen You Just shoot on the Hillside!

He Was PISSED!

I Tells Him:

You're Gonna Take Care & Retrieve it Or I'll make a Phone Call & Have Your Ass Arrested!

The Attitude was BAD!

We Wasted 1/2 the Day Watching Him & Making Sure He Took His Trophy Out!

This Is How ARROGANT This PRICK WAS:

When He finally got the 65 Pound Trophy down to His Wheeler!

He Tied the Head to the Rear Rack on His Wheeler & Drug it for a few Miles behind the Wheeler back to His Truck!

Instead of just throwing it up on the Rack!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!

This JACK-ASS was not Happy with Me!

Makes You Wonder How Much BS He's Pulled off in His Day when nobody was watching?
Elk!

Good on you for policing that losers decisions! You almost gotta plan on dedicating some time each hunt to watch the behavior of others!

Because we’re living in ignorant times where the disregard for life is a common theme just as trashing the woods is!
 
An example of why I would like to see technology restricted on hunts:

I was hunting with a buddy, watching a deep, cliffy canyon that held big bucks. We located an absolute wall mount. Problem was, he was bedded 700 yards from us. So we came up with a plan to skirt the rim of the canyon and drop down through a chute to get within 200 yards.
In the mean time, a turret twister pulls up with his wife and they small talk with us as they scan the canyon below. We tell them we have a bedded buck that we’re going after. They spot a nice 3x4 and decide to set up for the 600 yard poke. (Not knowing how BIG the buck is we were going after). The guy dials gun, gives it to wife, she shoots deer but buck doesn't go down. At that point, our buck stands up and we’re all trying to keep tabs on where he’s going when another shot rings out and I see dust kick up around the buck we were going after! They saw our buck and said screw the 3x4 at that point and just had to have that monster buck instead!

I confront the SOB and ask them why they are taking another shot at a different buck when they already wounded the first! He says oh we didn’t. We were just finishing off our buck. A heated argument ensued.

Our buck cleared the canyon to live another day. Words were exchanged and I told this guy and his wife they had better get their azz’s down there, find and recover their deer or I’d get the authorities involved.

I stuck around to baby sit them. I bet that woman quit hunting after that day! That was a nasty hike to “hopefully” recover a 3x4.

That’s why I do not appreciate the turret twisting cannons. Very few respect their capabilities. Everyone thinks, “just dial and shoot.”
Trail cams and other technology enable wildlife harassment at the expense of these creatures just trying to survive.

There’s a right and a wrong way to use all technology. Hard to regulate the wrong way so you ban it!
I agree with your story and agree we need to draw some lines in the sand, but I clearly remember guys banging at bucks across canyons with all calibers and regular crosshair, non turret scopes even back in the 80's and it will never stop.
 
I agree with your story and agree we need to draw some lines in the sand, but I clearly remember guys banging at bucks across canyons with all calibers and regular crosshair, non turret scopes even back in the 80's and it will never stop.
You’re correct. It won’t stop. But minimum viable solution is better than increasing the options for wounding more animals through technology.

This topic is a never-ending discussion. A discussion that needs to be had before we remove quality altogether from our herds and force uninvited decisions to be made by our wildlife management reps.
 
You’re correct. It won’t stop. But minimum viable solution is better than increasing the options for wounding more animals through technology.

This topic is a never-ending discussion. A discussion that needs to be had before we remove quality altogether from our herds and force uninvited decisions to be made by our wildlife management reps.
We definitely are more efficient at cherry picking the best quality animals these days, but we are not killing "more" deer than before.
Quantity is a whole other chapter.
 
This is absolutely comical.
Hunters are our own worst enemy. This is only directed at some of you. A few of the people posting on this thread are the loudest to cry that something needs to be done to help your Utah herds. Over and over again a few of you complain, on every single thread. It’s nauseating. So, what do those specific people do when something is proposed that may, albeit in a very limited fashion, benefit the resource? They cry that it won’t work and whine about enforcement difficulties or that it’s not big enough or that it’s not the real problem. At the end of the day, some people just want to cry and nothing will ever please them. Sorry bout your misfortune. For the record, I support the proposal, seems like a win for wildlife.
 
Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to on this for me personally. I run cams for fun. Not hunting info. I’ll take my cams and my salt out when the snow allows me, and I’ll pick them up when it’s convenient for me. Probably around the first of November. I don’t mark my cams in any way, and I make sure my cards are cleared and have no pics of me on them when I leave. If the authorities or tattletale Nancy’s want to confiscate or report them, more power to them. I doubt they can get them off the tree, but again, if they feel the need to, I really don’t care either way. I’ve got plenty more to replace it with. I never get pics of other hunters any ways so I doubt this will be the year my sites are flooded with hunters. Regardless if it’s right or wrong, Doyle, his crew, sheep poacher and his minions, and other outfits will all have theirs out year round as well. Last time I checked I have just as much right to the public land and wildlife out there as they do. And I’m not selling the locations of these wildlife to hunters for a premium price. I’m just enjoying their beauty with my kids and family who aren’t physically fortunate enough to go see them themselves in person. Our government and authorities are so fukt in these days, when was the last time they did ANYTHING to benefit anyone but themselves. They’ve spent the last year ruining an economy, lying to the public, destroying lives, violating personal and American rights, and all for what? Definitely not the good of the people. Or the good of our nation. This bill isn’t for the good of the people, the wildlife or the resources. There’s a personal agenda being pushed here, which is why they are bypassing the current system they have in place to discuss and enact new laws regarding hunting, wildlife and natural resources.

so in summary, take my cams. take a little more of my freedom. And take a little more of my happiness, which is getting harder and harder to find these days. I don’t care. I’ll keep putting more up. And you’ll have a dang hard time proving it’s my camera in the first place. If you do decide to invest time and resources to identify the ”criminal” taking pics of the wildlife, what a star detective you must be. Think of all the poaching crimes you could have solved with those resources, but chose to use them on a camera runner instead. Bravo.
 
Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to on this for me personally. I run cams for fun. Not hunting info. I’ll take my cams and my salt out when the snow allows me, and I’ll pick them up when it’s convenient for me. Probably around the first of November. I don’t mark my cams in any way, and I make sure my cards are cleared and have no pics of me on them when I leave. If the authorities or tattletale Nancy’s want to confiscate or report them, more power to them. I doubt they can get them off the tree, but again, if they feel the need to, I really don’t care either way. I’ve got plenty more to replace it with. I never get pics of other hunters any ways so I doubt this will be the year my sites are flooded with hunters. Regardless if it’s right or wrong, Doyle, his crew, sheep poacher and his minions, and other outfits will all have theirs out year round as well. Last time I checked I have just as much right to the public land and wildlife out there as they do. And I’m not selling the locations of these wildlife to hunters for a premium price. I’m just enjoying their beauty with my kids and family who aren’t physically fortunate enough to go see them themselves in person. Our government and authorities are so fukt in these days, when was the last time they did ANYTHING to benefit anyone but themselves. They’ve spent the last year ruining an economy, lying to the public, destroying lives, violating personal and American rights, and all for what? Definitely not the good of the people. Or the good of our nation. This bill isn’t for the good of the people, the wildlife or the resources. There’s a personal agenda being pushed here, which is why they are bypassing the current system they have in place to discuss and enact new laws regarding hunting, wildlife and natural resources.

so in summary, take my cams. take a little more of my freedom. And take a little more of my happiness, which is getting harder and harder to find these days. I don’t care. I’ll keep putting more up. And you’ll have a dang hard time proving it’s my camera in the first place. If you do decide to invest time and resources to identify the ”criminal” taking pics of the wildlife, what a star detective you must be. Think of all the poaching crimes you could have solved with those resources, but chose to use them on a camera runner instead. Bravo.

You put out salt and cams just for fun! Right. That makes sense. I for one wouldn’t spend one minute worrying about who put them up. Just hope you have a good supply of extras.

You can put up cameras on your own property any time without recourse. But you can only put them up legally on land you share with me if a majority of people say it is legal to do so. Has nothing to do with taking away your “rights”. Just like you don’t get to make the rules when you drive down a highway that we, the public, share. Try putting up some cams there and see what happens.
 
I’ve never hunted 2 of the units I have cams in. Never even applied for tags in them. General units. I just like to spend time in the areas.

I stand corrected.

That would also imply that you haven’t shared any info from them with people who have hunted those areas.

To be honest, I have used and enjoyed cams on public and private, so I will be sad if that has to end. But I will understand the reasons, and am ok with giving up something to gain something.
 
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Major improvements in technology are taking a toll on an already struggling resource. Let’s start by banning trail cameras. I think it will help the resource and will take some preside off of nature animals. We may need to consider additional restrictions in the future. Sometime we as hunters are our own worst enemies!

Hawkeye
 
I think it might lower harvest some, but I am for the ban as much because it will reduce the number of people tromping through the woods and near watering holes checking on their cameras. All that traffic can be a stress on the animals in some areas.
 
So when trail cams are banned and the only ones who can use them year round are outfitters and guides who have surgically implanted knee pads, and our deer and elk numbers are still at a sharp decline, what other rights will they take from the peasants next?

kind of ironic that the guides and outfitters who target trophy animals specifically, will be the ones exempt from any of these rules created to “benefit wildlife” in the long run and hopefully allow bigger animals more of a chance to survive every hunting season.

DWR should really consider issuing a complimentary personal K&Y lube tube when a peasant renews their yearly combination license. Getting bent over more and more annually would at least be a little easier to tolerate.
 
Where does it say that outfitters are exempt from this on public land? If it really says that, then I change my vote. Anyone can use them on private land, but if such a law passes, it has better apply to anyone on public. If not, it is truly a waste of the paper it is written on.

Here is the bill and I can’t see where anyone is exempt on public land except govt. am I missing it?

 
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Where does it say that outfitters are exempt from this on public land? If it really says that, then I change my vote. Anyone can use them on private land, but if such a law passes, it has better apply to anyone on public. If not, it is truly a waste of the paper it is written on.

Here is the bill and I can’t see where anyone is exempt on public land except govt. am I missing it?

You're correct. @Dirt_Road_Warrior is wrong, there is not an exemption for outfitters.
 
You're correct. @Dirt_Road_Warrior is wrong, there is not an exemption for outfitters.
Of course it doesnt say they are exempt. But we all know they will be. When have outfitters and guides been subject to follow laws and regulations that peasants have to follow? Look At the Nebo bighorn sheep incident. Had your average hunter done that chit, they would have hung him in the streets publicly. Did anything happen to the outfitter or hunters involved on that deal? No. Last time I checked, the public can’t go run a camera line out on Antelope island. They’d crucify them if they did. But Doyle has cams strung all over that place. What about harassing deer to push them into a legal hunting area? If a public hunter did that, they’d lose hunting right for YEARS. WLH does it and they just get asked to leave. There’s incident after incident involving guides and outfitters doing shadyshit all the time and does anything ever happen to them? No. The public hunter does it though, and they make examples out of them.
 
I stand corrected.

That would also imply that you haven’t shared any info from them with people who have hunted those areas.

To be honest, I have used and enjoyed cams on public and private, so I will be sad if that has to end. But I will understand the reasons, and am ok with giving up something to gain something.
No, the only ones who know what’s on those cameras are my children. I don’t sell out animals to people just to be liked by people. You wanna know what’s in an area I’m watching? Get out of bed early and go for a hike yourself
 
Of course it doesnt say they are exempt. But we all know they will be. When have outfitters and guides been subject to follow laws and regulations that peasants have to follow? Look At the Nebo bighorn sheep incident. Had your average hunter done that chit, they would have hung him in the streets publicly. Did anything happen to the outfitter or hunters involved on that deal? No. Last time I checked, the public can’t go run a camera line out on Antelope island. They’d crucify them if they did. But Doyle has cams strung all over that place. What about harassing deer to push them into a legal hunting area? If a public hunter did that, they’d lose hunting right for YEARS. WLH does it and they just get asked to leave. There’s incident after incident involving guides and outfitters doing shadyshit all the time and does anything ever happen to them? No. The public hunter does it though, and they make examples out of them.

I hear your frustration, and there is a lot of truth in what you say, but I guarantee you that If this passes, it won’t be the wildlife dept that enforces it, it will be normal hunters that hunt those areas. So Doyle’s cameras aren’t staying up any more than yours, if a hunter who knows the law finds them.

But it’s a little ironic that you rail against outfitters using them, but it would be ok for you to continue.
 
Of course it doesnt say they are exempt. But we all know they will be. When have outfitters and guides been subject to follow laws and regulations that peasants have to follow? Look At the Nebo bighorn sheep incident. Had your average hunter done that chit, they would have hung him in the streets publicly. Did anything happen to the outfitter or hunters involved on that deal? No. Last time I checked, the public can’t go run a camera line out on Antelope island. They’d crucify them if they did. But Doyle has cams strung all over that place. What about harassing deer to push them into a legal hunting area? If a public hunter did that, they’d lose hunting right for YEARS. WLH does it and they just get asked to leave. There’s incident after incident involving guides and outfitters doing shadyshit all the time and does anything ever happen to them? No. The public hunter does it though, and they make examples out of them.
You're 100% correct that there is a double standard with certain outfitters and organizations.
 
No, the only ones who know what’s on those cameras are my children. I don’t sell out animals to people just to be liked by people. You wanna know what’s in an area I’m watching? Get out of bed early and go for a hike yourself

I already know enough about you to know that you wouldn’t sell info to hunters. I was talking about a son, daughter, brother, uncle, nephew, best friend......

I will say this, you are passionate about your beliefs and about hunting and I admire that. I disagree with you on this issue but I will never say my way is the only right way. Your opinion is just as valid as mine.
 
The biggest issue with HB295 is that it has been brought by a single state legislator based only on his opinion on the matters. Zero data, zero research...in fact, no mention of what goal is trying to be accomplished (harvest reduction? wildlife harassment? we literally have no idea) with the bill and impending law. Not only that, but the bill purposefully sidestepped the normal process for wildlife regulations in this state, the RAC committees, meaning no public input was allowed.

I am not at all automatically opposed to trail cam regulations and/or baiting bans, but all of us as hunters should demand better...even if you agree with this particular issue and would like to see cameras and/or baiting gone, that's just fine, but the process should not work this way. A single legislator should not be able to bring and push a bill based solely on his own personal agenda. What happens when the next legislator doesn't like trapping, or doesn't like the idea of hounds for lions or bears, or any other number of "controversial" outdoor-related issues? Slippery slope.

Do a little reading on Casey Snider's "reasoning" for bringing the bill and you will see nothing but one man's opinion. Zero data. Do cameras, cell or otherwise, increase harvest statistics? I don't know. Possible they do, but having that info available (among other data points) as part of this would be a nice start, no?

This SL Tribune article has zero fact, only opinion, hearsay, and hyperbole at best (outright lies at worst). To say there is not a single water source in the state without "dozens" (Casey has used "a half-dozen" at times as well) is not true at all. Implying that hunters are getting a text message that a deer is at the apple pile and killing it 5 mins later is a pretty damn broad brush to paint with, but any non-hunter that reads that article will likely agree (as many of us would) that a scenario such as that is wrong. Problem is, again, there if very little (more like any) proof this is actually happening outside of an isolated incidence here and there, someone's brother-in-law's buddy did it type of thing.

Read the article. Read some of Casey's posts online about the bill.

 
My support for this change is not based on the legislator that is pushing the bill. Nor is it based upon the amount (or lack) of research studies or polls conducted. My support is based upon my own personal hunting experiences in the mountains and common sense. It would be nice if the wildlife board would address an issue like this but that process is largely broken. Trail cams and baiting or a major problem and that problem will only get worse if we do not address it now.

Kudos to SFW for coming out in support of this bill. I have busted their balls on many occasions but I’m happy to recognize when they are on the right side of an issue.
 
My support for this change is not based on the legislator that is pushing the bill. Nor is it based upon the amount (or lack) of research studies or polls conducted. My support is based upon my own personal hunting experiences in the mountains and common sense. It would be nice if the wildlife board would address an issue like this but that process is largely broken. Trail cams and baiting or a major problem and that problem will only get worse if we do not address it now.

Kudos to SFW for coming out in support of this bill. I have busted their balls on many occasions but I’m happy to recognize when they are on the right side of an issue.
Fair point of view, for certain. The viewpoint could easily be flipped though, if the next piece of legislation is something you feel equally passionate about but that the proposed legislation does not support. I've said it many times, I'm not instantly against regulations here, but I'm definitely against this bill as it currently stands and it currently written. Back to the drawing board to solve some of the very clear issues (ie, cameras are used for more than just hunting (think campsites, traplines, etc and salt is or isn't bait, among others) and run it through the proper channels, let's talk.
 
I hear your frustration, and there is a lot of truth in what you say, but I guarantee you that If this passes, it won’t be the wildlife dept that enforces it, it will be normal hunters that hunt those areas. So Doyle’s cameras aren’t staying up any more than yours, if a hunter who knows the law finds them.

But it’s a little ironic that you rail against outfitters using them, but it would be ok for you to continue.
Im not an outfitter. I’m not targeting trophy animals. My camera photos of “trophy” animals are not being used to sell locations of animals and essentially placing hits on those trophy animals. I’m not guiding people to these animals and I’m not making money off it. In no way does what my trail cam purpose mirror what an outfitters does. The whole thing is to help trophy animals evade being detected right? My cams are used to let me know if cow elk have moved into or out of my area, so I’ll know where I need to be hunting that week with my general OTC tag. Not with my client who paid 50k and is flying in once I call him to tell him I know which tree he’s currently asleep under.

and his cameras are already staying up longer than mine since I can’t go put them out on AI, but he can... when I wouldn’t be trying to kill the deer on those pics, but of course he is.

if you think WLH and MB will be taking their cams down aug 1 just like everyone else is expected to, then you haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on around the state every year and the crap both outfits keep pulling and getting away with.
 
if you think WLH and MB will be taking their cams down aug 1 just like everyone else is expected to, then you haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on around the state every year and the crap both outfits keep pulling and getting away with.

You maybe right, but if they do leave them up, I have a feeling they won’t be operating too well when they go to check on them. Although many may just destroy them, it would also be simple to take a little bit of your drinking water, and a little bit of dirt, and make some mud. And that mud could be smeared over just about anything, like a camera lens. ? Sooner or later it would be enforced by someone.

And no, your use of cameras is not the problem.
 
Welp, what we have here is someone confused what protecting wildlife really is. Using, or not using, a laser range finder is not protecting or harming wildlife in anyway. If said laser burned a hole in them, your arguement would have validity.

A game camera disrupting the ability of wildlife to go about their business of survival unfettered for a period of time is another matter.

If hunting is a means of herd management, the more proficient the predator, the easier it is to meet management quotas. Knowing yardage prior to shot execution allows you, as the hunter, to decide to take the shot or not based on your ability.

As far as tech in general being ostracized as poor wildlife game laws, better saddle up Hoss, because your 4x4 hurts wildlife by helping you get yourself up to them without expending as much effort.

Disagree just to disagree. I'll wait...
If states managed wildlife herd numbers by issuing one tag for each animal they want removed from the population that they want removed that would be one thing but that's not the way it is. Here in Utah they manage for money. If they think that the success rate for a particular hunt is 20% then they will Issue five times the number of tags compared to the number of animals they expect to be killed.

The truth is they don't usually have a clue what the herd size is and because they don't require notification of every tag filled success rates could be double or triple what they think they are. With increasingly efficient hunting tools and methods those success rates will only increase and the state is too stupid to recognize this.
 
If states managed wildlife herd numbers by issuing one tag for each animal they want removed from the population that they want removed that would be one thing but that's not the way it is. Here in Utah they manage for money. If they think that the success rate for a particular hunt is 20% then they will Issue five times the number of tags compared to the number of animals they expect to be killed.

The truth is they don't usually have a clue what the herd size is and because they don't require notification of every tag filled success rates could be double or triple what they think they are. With increasingly efficient hunting tools and methods those success rates will only increase and the state is too stupid to recognize this.
As long as the hunter is willing to just fill the tag for the intended purpose of herd management. As long as the total of the mighty bone inches is a thing, tech will never have the impact it's implied to have.
 
Here’s something to consider for those in the camp of banning them.

do you not already have rules and regulations regarding leaning personal property on the mountain for longer than say, oh, 14 days? Like a trailer? And how often is that rule enforced? Pretty close to never. Leaving the honest guy being the one who gets boned, again. And now we expect cam seasons to be enforced, by who? We don’t even have enough officers to respond to all the poaching reports in a timely manner. Now you’re gonna send them out to track down cam season violators? Gee what a great use of a limited resource ?
 
I’m afraid that your still gonna see just as many cameras, but the only difference is that the honest guy won’t be able to use them but most other people will.
 
do you not already have rules and regulations regarding leaning personal property on the mountain for longer than say, oh, 14 days? Like a trailer? And how often is that rule enforced? Pretty close to never.
If your argument is that trailers left on the mountain should be towed away... I totally agree. They need to increase enforcement.
 
61% of the people who responded to the poll on the Utah forum are in favor of the ban. what percentage of non hunters do you suppose think taking their picture without consent on public land is a great idea ?

If you like your trail cams you don't want to let the voters decide so try another angle. just say'in.
 
If your argument is that trailers left on the mountain should be towed away... I totally agree. They need to increase enforcement.
My argument is these trailer laws have been in effect for how many years? And how often is it enforced? Even when reported? Almost never. And you think officials policing trail cam violations will be more likely to happen? Yeah right! A trailer is next to a road and they won’t ticket or tow violators. Trail cams deep in the hills? Hahahaha that’s a big ‘NO’.

and you’re gonna steal them if you find them after the season is over? Why not steal a trailer that’s been on the hill for 2 months or longer? I understand it’s comparing apples and oranges, but it’s the same concept
 
I’ll only take a trailer in violation of the 14 day policy if it’s a newer fifth wheel with a fire place and at least three slide outs.
 
So let’s say you got some cams up in some remote areas of utah. You placed them in 2018, but since then your 2 year old lost the keys to your locks when he went digging through a drawer he shouldn’t have when he was left unattended for a minute. They are lagged to a tree and these aren’t just your average locks you can break or cut off... and your info is sharpied on the front of the lock boxes. Are you screwed if someone find them and reports them after the season is over?

asking for a friend of course.
 
You're so tough ridge
I didn't say I'd hurt someone over a trail cam but there are plenty of guys out there that would. I'm personally not going to steal or damage someone else's property unless the law specifically says you can remove them and turn them into a specific agency.
 
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Or it can pay for your surgery and hospital visits after you messed with the wrong persons personal property!
Lighten up Ridge!

I’ve never messed with anyone’s property!

Because I wouldn’t want someone messing with mine!

When I say mine, I mean my camp! Don’t own a trail camera!

Not to say I haven’t wanted to “tune” a few vehicles parked in closed areas!
 

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