Utah Trail Cam Restrictions - Archery Point Creep

Vitalwave

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Utah is now making the trail cam season end on July 31st. Seems like trail cams have been talked about to death lately but how do you all think this will effect Utah archery deer and elk hunt point creep? Do you think people who apply archery will now apply for muzzle or rifle now since cams cant be used? It seems like a trail cam is the most valuable on early season hot weather watering holes? Thoughts?
 
I can't imagine anyone changing there hunting tactics because of the way cams are going to be regulated, if they can still use them up to the end of July! They should of got rid of the damm things when the changes were made.

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Trail camera ban will make zero difference in anyone's application strategy.
The big difference is you will now be able to draw a LE elk or deer permit in 3-5 years. lol

I'm glad trail cams are banned, but it will make zero difference.
 
You’ll have more archery guys jump ship because of the baiting ban than you’ll have from the camera ban. But even then, I bet the numbers who change won’t be noticeable
Yeah you are probably right. I was just wondering because a camera in August feels like when it would be the most useful. Especially on a water hole for bucks and pre rut bulls. If you knew that a bull/buck was hitting water every couple days on a specific place you would be able to ambush him. From July 31st to three weeks later in Aug a lot can change. Thats why I was wondering if that now makes archery less exciting for Utahs limited entry units? I guess time will tell.
 
Next year it will.

All the dudes talking "never killed with a cam", will see that, THEY ACTUALLY DID.

The results from baiting ban, showed it hurt, especially outfitters.

The same will be true with cams.

It will be year 2, that all the IG Fame chasers will look for easier ways to get famous.

I'm hurting for the HUSH guys as we speak.
 
I don’t think trail cams will affect much as far as application, but here’s a different question for everyone, Do you guys think a ban on scopes for muzzleloaders would cause people too jump? I think it might play a factor, same reason more people hunt rifle than archery, they like too spot and shoot not spot and stalk.
 
I don’t think trail cams will affect much as far as application, but here’s a different question for everyone, Do you guys think a ban on scopes for muzzleloaders would cause people too jump? I think it might play a factor, same reason more people hunt rifle than archery, they like too spot and shoot not spot and stalk.
I bet it would be a factor for sure. The question is does that just make the rifles hunts that much harder to draw if you pull magnifying scopes off muzzleloaders? I think so. I think many hunters are going to take the path of highest success rates. I don't really feel like that is necessarily an evil thing. People hunt for all sorts of reason and those change from hunt to hunt. I love a challenge but also expect more opportunities to harvest when I apply for 20 + years. I have hunted and harvested with a bow but also enjoy rifle hunting. I like fly fishing but am not ashamed of using a worm/bait.
 
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If they do, it proves the whole point of the Cam law.
There is no question cameras help hunters otherwise people wouldn't use them. Im still not convinced they are any more or less evil or unethical than every other piece of equipment hunters use to their advantage. I think it all comes down to how you define hunting. That definition is different for each hunter and for me changes on the tag I have. Makes for an interesting debate.
 
There is no question cameras help hunters otherwise people wouldn't use them. Im still not convinced they are any more or less evil or unethical than every other piece of equipment hunters use to their advantage. I think it all comes down to how you define hunting. That definition is different for each hunter and for me changes on the tag I have. Makes for an interesting debate.

If you start from a minimal requirement that hunting should require a guy to actually be in the field, then I think it makes sense to start with cams.

But yes. With the new developments in weapons, especially in scopes the military is financing, we will very soon need to address that as well.
 
Vitalwave-

On the flipside, we might also get some hunters out there who jump TO archery if they feel their chances are now equal to those who usually run dozens of trail cameras all year... In fact, I think there will be some shakeup as to where many people are/will put in for LE hunts. Knowing that an extreme advantage that outfitters had is now gone, I think some of the better units (the ones that are flooded with outfitters), will see Average Joes applying there now.
 
Vitalwave-

On the flipside, we might also get some hunters out there who jump TO archery if they feel their chances are now equal to those who usually run dozens of trail cameras all year... In fact, I think there will be some shakeup as to where many people are/will put in for LE hunts. Knowing that an extreme advantage that outfitters had is now gone, I think some of the better units (the ones that are flooded with outfitters), will see Average Joes applying there now.
Perhaps you are right? It will be interesting to see. The whole trail camera thing to me felt like they could have addressed it with the guides. An example of the 1% ruining it for the 99%. All I have heard on this forum is examples of abuse from the guides with 100's of cameras. I would bet most Average Joe hunters who use cams have no more than two or three tops. Speaking personally I have a hard time keeping track of three cameras during a season because I don't have a fleet of worker bees hiking in to install and check them for me like some guides do.
 
If restrictions on hunting equipment affect your choice of hunts then you are a handicapped, poor hunter and definitely not a sportsman. Sell your gear and buy some new golf clubs.

If you disagree with this statement or it chaffs your rectum in any way then you will know deep down inside of your soul that hunting isn't for you.
 
If restrictions on hunting equipment affect your choice of hunts then you are a handicapped, poor hunter and definitely not a sportsman. Sell your gear and buy some new golf clubs.

If you disagree with this statement or it chaffs your rectum in any way then you will know deep down inside of your soul that hunting isn't for you.


Yup

If it means more chances to be afield, that's how I feel
 
If restrictions on hunting equipment affect your choice of hunts then you are a handicapped, poor hunter and definitely not a sportsman. Sell your gear and buy some new golf clubs.

If you disagree with this statement or it chaffs your rectum in any way then you will know deep down inside of your soul that hunting isn't for you.
I'm all three of those, but I can't swing a golf club for obvious reasons. Any other suggestions for me? My rectum is chaffed more times than it's not as well.
 
If restrictions on hunting equipment affect your choice of hunts then you are a handicapped, poor hunter and definitely not a sportsman. Sell your gear and buy some new golf clubs.

If you disagree with this statement or it chaffs your rectum in any way then you will know deep down inside of your soul that hunting isn't for you.
Um, I'm guessing this comment was made with more of your gut rather than your head..?
Restrictions on hunting equipment LITERALLY affect each and every one of us and our hunting choices. We have to choose between Archery, rifle, muzzy, handgun, shotgun, etc... each and every year. I guess we're all handicapped.? All poor.? And none of us are sportsmen.?
 
When you change the rules of the game, you automatically change the way it is played! And sometimes the new maneuvers and actions are worse than the old ones. Be careful what you wish for. The outcome may not be the one you changed the rule for.
 
My personal experience has always included a but load of miles putting boots on the ground in the summer scouting. For the purpose of intel. Which is far more valuable than a camera. Should we make scouting illegal?
Early July til mid August to me….shows the deer at their most vulnerable and most consistent patterns. Equating to the least need for a trail camera. Once velvet is peeled and bow hunters start bumping them, then the transitions begin. No need for these critters to hear gunshot’s to make changes. It’s the late muzzy and rifle hunts where cameras for me would be most important for intel. As general rifle season kicks off, I feel the least knowledgeable about where they are at. Especially as those fall weather patterns begin to impact the deers behavior besides guys and gals with rifles aimlessly move around and the animals hunker down or move to deeper canyons and more secluded places.
Even though I don’t bow hunt, I still spend countless days and miles scouting to find and pattern the biggest bucks during that summer time when they are most consistent which is well before hunting season starts. Which gives me intel of the quality and quantity.
Take my cameras, don’t need them. Take my magnified scope from my muzzleloader (although the success rates haven’t varied much to warrant it) I’ll still be chasing them with my muzzleloader because it’s the timeframe that I find them somewhat consistent. I’ll just have a higher probability of missing or wounding them since my eyes are deteriorating.
But the intel that I gather, has kept my finger off the trigger far more occasions than times than I did. It is that intel that has saved the lives of yearling bucks almost EVERY SINGLE YEAR
All the experiences that I’ve witnessed or seen on my own hunts and while helping others, I’ve never witnessed a muzzy shot over 185 yards and I’ve helped a lot of folks. My brothers LE muzzy hunt two years ago was a shot at 45 yards. My only muzzy deer kill was 85 yards.
I think most GS muzzy hunters don’t own a LR muzzy nor have the practice, skill, loads or capabilities to kill deer at 300+ yards.
It’s a small minority of hunters who use those set ups.
A magnified scope on my muzzy only helps me take more ethical shots.

Now I’ve recently looked at harvest success rates for GS muzzy deer hunts. Based on the data I’ve looked at, there was nothing I could see that would indicate that magnified scopes have impacted the number of deer killed.
I would like to see data based information that suggests otherwise. But I think some peoples assumptions have gathered support from misinformation.
2013-2015 statewide average success rate was 33.5% 2016 magnified scopes were legalized on muzzleloaders.
2017-2019 statewide average success rate was 35.2% (increase of 1.7%)
In the 29 units, there were 17 units that had an average increase in success rates and 12 units that had a decrease.
The facts about declining mule deer herds has a variable of determining factors that all have an impact.
There is no information or data out there for you or I nor the state WB to see that shows without a shadow of a doubt that magnified scopes on muzzleloaders has made us too good at killing.
Just a lot of opinions
So would my hunting strategies change? Absolutely not! But it might save a mature big deers life in the rare opportunities that I get. But maybe that’s the purpose or intentions for the restrictions.
Maybe taking the technology away might force me to kill more deer when the opportunity arises instead of being selective. Because the opportunities to kill for me are annual.
Be careful what you wish for

Maybe everything about my experiences involving hunting,scouting, technology and the belief that my equipment doesn’t dictate my personal limitations…. Is a minority. But I’m quickly seeing alot of reasons to lower hunter recruitment and turn hunters off as continuous restrictions are put into place for all because of a few.
I once heard a WB member say something in a meeting that made me proud. “we shouldn’t be managing our animals on social issues”
But it’s come to that and it’s turned hunter versus hunter inevitability.
 
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