Vaccine question....Poll

Should employers be allowed to require their employees to be vaccinated for Covid-19??

  • Total voters
    114
I think that the vaccine would be something a thoughtful person would seek to get on their own...but lots of discussion from guys on here that don’t plan to get it
and I can respect that.
I do NOT think anyone should be required, by any external force, to get the vaccine.
Things like this should be an individual choice made by an informed person and done in the spirit of what they think is right for THEMSELVES.
Zeke
 
I believe employers should be able to choose to hire or fire whomever they'd like (obviously subject to discrimination and whistle-blower laws). Utah, for instance, has very loose restrictions on personnel compared to some other states, and I support that as part of limited government.

Current US law says employers can require vaccinations with certain exemptions...

www.natlawreview.com

Employers' Next COVID-19 Conundrum: To Mandate Vaccination, or Not to Mandate Vaccination?

With COVID-19 vaccinations underway across the United States, many employers are considering whether to implement a mandatory employee vaccination policy. The following Q&A presents various legal and practical considerations that employers should think through when deciding how to approach this...
www.natlawreview.com www.natlawreview.com

As a business owner, I don't want the government telling me what rules I can/cannot put in place at my business. I'm not requiring vaccinations at my office, but I don't want the government telling somebody else they can't require it at theirs. That would be me attempting to force my beliefs on others.

Telling a business owner how to manage his business/employees can't be done in the name of small government and personal freedom. That would be antithetical. Small government cuts both ways, let the markets figure it out.
 
I marked “don’t know” but it really should be “depends”, partly for the reasons Grizz gave but also because worker’s compensation laws and OSHA/MSHA regulations would need to be tweaked.

If workplace safety and insurance laws aren’t changed correspondingly, I’m a hard “yes”.
 
im surprised by so many no votes. I figured 90% of the grouchy old guys here remember the fight to “cure” polio etc.
1617669511239.png
 
roadrunner said:
Wonder what people would think about an HIV or Hep C test as a pre-employment requirement?

The CoV-2 vaccine is not long term like others are. It's stupid to make it a requirement when the virus itself is losing its foothold.
Click to expand...
Hep-C is blood to blood so shouldn't be a concern except for needle sticks.
 
I tried turkey hunting. The only thing that would come to my calls were coyotes. Going halibut fishing Wednesday.
 
roadrunner said:
Wonder what people would think about an HIV or Hep C test as a pre-employment requirement?

The CoV-2 vaccine is not long term like others are. It's stupid to make it a requirement when the virus itself is losing its foothold.
Click to expand...

I feel your comment calls for a little closer examination.

There's no evidence of an outbreak of Hep C or HIV in the workplace except in the adult film industry, where testing is required.

We don't know how long-term the CoV-2 vaccine is good for yet (?? on getting the virus name correct). Some say it will be yearly, others say much longer. Only time will tell.

Overall things are much better than they were a few months ago and I think we're all grateful for that, but I think it's clear that much of those gains are due to the vaccine... not in spite of it.
 
Last edited:
DH56 said:
Requiring someone to take an experimental vaccine and then something goes south down the road opens the door to litigation.
Click to expand...
I don't think any reasonable person is advocating the requirement of vaccination. But, there should be no requirement that an employer MUST employ a certain individual either.
 
eelgrass said:
I tried turkey hunting. The only thing that would come to my calls were coyotes. Going halibut fishing Wednesday.
Click to expand...
Nice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!
 
roadrunner said:
The point is being forced to disclose something normally protected by law...
Click to expand...

?? Gotcha

My take is that nobody is forced to take the tests, they just may choose to work somewhere else. Nobody has a "right" to be employed by a small business owner that doesn't want them there.

As a business owner, my concern is greater for the employer being forced by the government to employ people against the owners guidelines than for the employee who gets to demand employment because the government said the business can't decide whom they hire.

The employee has the choice to abide by the rules or work somewhere else. The business owner should also have the choice to employ a certain person or sever that relationship if the employee doesn't agree to workplace rules.
 
Slightlysober said:
Nice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!
Click to expand...
I loved fishing for Kings in Alaska in May. Out of Sitka and the early run on the Cook Inlet. No better eating fish in the world.

I can see where an employer would like to see the employees vaccinated. Every year when flu season hit there was a lot of loss in production at the sawmill. 150 employees and 10 a day calling in sick with the flu makes it hard on the other employees too. They offered us $10 flu shots but very few people took advantage of it. I did a few times. And if you miss work you lose the money too.
 
PRIVATE buisness should be free to do WHATEVER it chooses. Including vaccine requirements, non compliance with handicapped accessibility, and YES, even racial, religious, sexual discrimination.

PUBLIC employers should not have any such leeway.
 
eelgrass said:
I loved fishing for Kings in Alaska in May. Out of Sitka and the early run on the Cook Inlet. No better eating fish in the world.

I can see where an employer would like to see the employees vaccinated. Every year when flu season hit there was a lot of loss in production at the sawmill. 150 employees and 10 a day calling in sick with the flu makes it hard on the other employees too. They offered us $10 flu shots but very few people took advantage of it. I did a few times. And if you miss work you lose the money too.
Click to expand...


I quit playing basketball, because injuries= no paycheck. When you work in an industry where not showing up ONLY hurts you(no sick leave paid by employer), you quickly align yourself with the employers desire to not have you out sick or hurt.

So IMO the employer should be able to mandate whatever they can to keep things going. Be that shots, or PPE.

But it SHOULD NOT be forced by the government.
 
Slightlysober said:
Nice! We won’t start halibut up here till late mayish. But kings will be showing up soon!
Click to expand...
We can fish for California Halibut right now and Pacific Halibut opens May 1st
We do pretty good out of Eureka and Shelter Cove on Pacific Halibut but not as big as in Alaska but some go 70-110 pounds
 
hossblur said:
PRIVATE buisness should be free to do WHATEVER it chooses. Including vaccine requirements, non compliance with handicapped accessibility, and YES, even racial, religious, sexual discrimination.

PUBLIC employers should not have any such leeway.
Click to expand...
Except that public employers hire private citizens...
 
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.

If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.

Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
 
I really don't think it matters in the long haul if you get vaccinated or not. We're getting back to normal? That's a pipe dream. What do these mask companies know that we don't?

The Ghost Shield

The Ghost Shield by Virushield is a Clear, Strapless Face Covering that is the leader in the Transparent Mask niche. It's made in the USA and Reusable and Recyclable. Perfect for Glasses or Lip Reading
theghostshield.com theghostshield.com
 
Togwotee said:
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.

If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.

Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Click to expand...
This entire post is a crock...
 
I can't really find the thread that differentiates socialist policies with the government forcing me to pay an employee that I don't want to employ anymore... for whatever reason that may be. They would literally be regulating money out of my pocket via government control.

A private business should be able to decide who their customers are and whom they employ.

It goes along with what Mike Lee said in support of vaccine passports for private businesses, "I think vaccines are good, and I think once people have gotten a vaccine that they have the ability to present credentials to private property owners who might decide they want their customers to have been vaccinated."
 
The problem I see as a business owner is that we have an absolute requirement to provide a safe working environment for protected classes (in this case pregnant / nursing / immunocompromised employees). It's not enough to just say "do whatever you want" in regards to the vaccine choice -- the employer has to be able to show they made some effort to protect these vulnerable people.

In our case (my wife & I own our business) we didn't want to require vaccination but did want to strongly encourage it.

Our solution: we offer a large cash incentive to employees to get vaccinated (more than 2-weeks net pay for many of them), paid time for going to the appointments, and a paid day off after each vaccination if needed.

For those that declined (<10%) , they had to sign a waiver stating they are assuming this risk and are on the hook for any lost work time, etc that's COVID related and they have to (for now) get a COVID test every other week.

So far everyone seems happy with the policy.

What I suspect will happen in the future is that entry into numerous venues will be vaccine dependent and it'll at some point become so inconvenient to lack that vaccine that a herd immunity level of the population gets it.
 
Utahlefty said:
The problem I see as a business owner is that we have an absolute requirement to provide a safe working environment for protected classes (in this case pregnant / nursing / immunocompromised employees). It's not enough to just say "do whatever you want" in regards to the vaccine choice -- the employer has to be able to show they made some effort to protect these vulnerable people.

In our case (my wife & I own our business) we didn't want to require vaccination but did want to strongly encourage it.

Our solution: we offer a large cash incentive to employees to get vaccinated (more than 2-weeks net pay for many of them), paid time for going to the appointments, and a paid day off after each vaccination if needed.

For those that declined (<10%) , they had to sign a waiver stating they are assuming this risk and are on the hook for any lost work time, etc that's COVID related and they have to (for now) get a COVID test every other week.

So far everyone seems happy with the policy.

What I suspect will happen in the future is that entry into numerous venues will be vaccine dependent and it'll at some point become so inconvenient to lack that vaccine that a herd immunity level of the population gets it.
Click to expand...
So, what's the end game? This vaccine isn't permanent, not like polio or smallpox. If someone can fight it off just fine, they can still spread it. The vaccine allows you to do that. Until you fight it off, you can still spread it.

The vaccine doesn't give somebody an instant death enzyme for the virus if they come in contact with it. People who get the vaccine against those who constantly test negative are no different from one another.

The vaccine helps or boosts the person's immune system. It minimizes its affects for you to finish it off and nothing more.

Remember, the flu at one time was very deadly on a global scale. I've yet to be asked if I received a flu vacc to get a job, keep a job, or buy a loaf of bread at the store...
 
I'm not sure (and don't believe anyone is) of the end game. For now this I believe our approach is the best we can do right now.

As for the second part of your post, the latest data contradicts you, quite strongly. The m-RNA vaccines in particular are highly effective at preventing asymptomatic infections (even in kids in the preliminary data dumps) as well as preventing spread from a vaccinate to a non-vaccinate. They're also virtually 100% effective at preventing disease severe enough to require medical intervention.

It's also worth noting that up to 30% of these "easy infections" have long term side effects, which the vaccines largely prevent.
 
Utahlefty said:
I'm not sure (and don't believe anyone is) of the end game. For now this I believe our approach is the best we can do right now.

As for the second part of your post, the latest data contradicts you, quite strongly. The m-RNA vaccines in particular are highly effective at preventing asymptomatic infections (even in kids in the preliminary data dumps) as well as preventing spread from a vaccinate to a non-vaccinate. They're also virtually 100% effective at preventing disease severe enough to require medical intervention.

It's also worth noting that up to 30% of these "easy infections" have long term side effects, which the vaccines largely prevent.
Click to expand...
Excellent posts. Well thought-out and concise. Please stick around.
 
Utahlefty said:
I'm not sure (and don't believe anyone is) of the end game. For now this I believe our approach is the best we can do right now.

As for the second part of your post, the latest data contradicts you, quite strongly. The m-RNA vaccines in particular are highly effective at preventing asymptomatic infections (even in kids in the preliminary data dumps) as well as preventing spread from a vaccinate to a non-vaccinate. They're also virtually 100% effective at preventing disease severe enough to require medical intervention.

It's also worth noting that up to 30% of these "easy infections" have long term side effects, which the vaccines largely prevent.
Click to expand...
So you're telling me a vacc recipient is now immune forever? You did mention the preventing of infections to the degree of negating medical attention. Is that zero symptoms at all or the equivalent of hay fever? What I have read is that is lessens the symptoms, not eradicates them.

If they've wiped out one corona virus, sounds like dozens will now follow.

The person may not be "sick", but they still carry the virus for a time.

As an employer, you've already rewarded employees to vaccinate, would those who don't be punished beyond being out of a paycheck for a couple of weeks and face possible termination? What about signing the waiver "under duress"?

Just asking. I'm sure your legal staff or attorney said it is legit. As an employer, I know it's your obligation to provide a safe work environment.
 
There's been discussion on this thread regarding to what level the vaccines prevent infection or merely symptoms. This chart may help...

Screenshot_20210330-135417_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
I'm scheduled to get my first shot April 14th. They don't know which brand. A month after I get my second shot I'll be ready to go to work. If anyone is looking for someone to count wild elephants in California for $50/hr. I'm your guy.
 
Togwotee said:
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.

If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.

Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Click to expand...
?
 
From what I've read so far all the shot does is lessen the severity of the symptoms. Those that have received the shot can still get, and spread the virus.
 
The vaccine works end of story. yes there will be boosters or follow up shots required. BFD as long as people get them.

We can force anyone to get a shot but we don't have to condone selfishness and paranoid delusions either. I say once everyone who want a shot gets one kick the doors wide open and let the chips fall.

If you refused the shot medicare, medicade and private insurance will not pay for your treatment and hospitals will have no obligation to admit you. you think you're a rebel then GFYS not on my dime.



the virus really doesn't scare me I'm healthy and nothing has ever put me in the hospital, but I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
 
Togwotee said:
The vaccine works end of story. yes there will be boosters or follow up shots required. BFD as long as people get them.

We can force anyone to get a shot but we don't have to condone selfishness and paranoid delusions either. I say once everyone who want a shot gets one kick the doors wide open and let the chips fall.

If you refused the shot medicare, medicade and private insurance will not pay for your treatment and hospitals will have no obligation to admit you. you think you're a rebel then GFYS not on my dime.



the virus really doesn't scare me I'm healthy and nothing has ever put me in the hospital, but I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
Click to expand...
This is actually the scariest post I have ever seen on MM. Its hard for me to fathom that there are Americans that actually have these thoughts and feelings. This is truly Psychotic literature.
 
Togwotee said:
If you refused the shot medicare, medicade and private insurance will not pay for your treatment and hospitals will have no obligation to admit you.
Click to expand...

Prove it. Quite certain you are wrong.

Togwotee said:
I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.
Click to expand...

Maybe some of us are just waiting to make sure everyone who needs one can get it, and NOT being selfish and only thinking of ourselves.
 
Togwotee said:
We can force anyone to get a shot but we don't have to condone selfishness and paranoid delusions either. I say once everyone who want a shot gets one kick the doors wide open and let the chips fall.

Kick the $#%&@! doors open yesterday! If you're scared, stay home!

you think you're a rebel then GFYS not on my dime.

From someone in one of the most subsidized industries in the country. Whose dime exactly?


the virus really doesn't scare me I'm healthy and nothing has ever put me in the hospital, but I'll get my shot because I give a FF about someone other than myself. that's really what this is all about.

Not sure anybody here is buying that, but it's your story, tell it anyway you want.
Click to expand...
 
I got both of mine. Not because I had 2. Because I wanted 2. I look at it this way, same as the flu shot. If I get it, it will be a milder case.

I wear a mask when I go to work because I have to wear a mask to be able to go to work

I wear a mask when I go into Walmart because Walmart says I need to wear a mask to go into Walmart.

I was in Texas last week and wore a mask in places I did not have to, because I wanted to.

I do see them as a benefit to help slow flu and colds. Don't hurt me a bit. Tell me I have to wear them in public by a state or government and that's a different story.
 
treedagain said:
I got both of mine. Not because I had 2. Because I wanted 2. I look at it this way, same as the flu shot. If I get it, it will be a milder case.

I wear a mask when I go to work because I have to wear a mask to be able to go to work

I wear a mask when I go into Walmart because Walmart says I need to wear a mask to go into Walmart.

I was in Texas last week and wore a mask in places I did not have to, because I wanted to.

I do see them as a benefit to help slow flu and colds. Don't hurt me a bit. Tell me I have to wear them in public by a state or government and that's a different story.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day it's about choice and the ability to make a choice. Not some cheap politicians

And this public shaming crap needs to stop. Those who play that game are no better than cheap retread politicians.
 
I was one of the people that were very skeptical about how the vaccine was being developed and how quickly it was being brought into use. I also have some extremely intelligent friends that work in the bio science field. They spent some time explaining to me how the vaccine methods that are being used have been developed over the last 15 years. And even though this specific vaccine was being moved through rapidly, the technology is not new.

I got my J&J one and done shot last week. I had a sore arm and a little headache but all in all very minor side effects.

My friends that are suffering the long term affects of having Covid sure wish they only had to deal with a sore arm. The people I know that have died because of Covid would have much rather been alive I'm sure.

Yeah, I have friends who had mild symptoms for a couple days. And probably quite a few that had no symptoms. I would much rather be part of the solution for getting life back to normal and our economy fully functioning again, than just sit back and b#%* and moan about how this is all some deep state conspiracy.

This reminds me of all the posts about how deer/elk hunting has gone to pot and the herds are all dying off. When there's is a solution presented, many decide that they don't want to be a part of the solution. They would much rather sit back and whine about why they can't draw a tag or kill a bull.
 
Still waiting on somebody's expert friend to tell us what the long term effects of this vaccine are. I think I've got a long wait ahead of me.
 
EVILNR said:
If it was an ACTUAL pandemic, no one would have to be persuaded to get the vaccine.
Click to expand...
If the politicians, and even the doctors, hadn't lied time and again to us about the disease someone might trust them.

I actually read an article back before November written by an American doctor in a medical journal about how CHINA had much better "leadership " than the US and they were winning the battle against Covid.?

Here's a message to the politicians and doctors. If you don't think your words garner the respect and obedience of the American people anymore, QUIT BEING LYING SACKS OF CRAP! Now you understand why integrity has value and you don't sell your soul and bet on the public to be stupid subjects for you to manipulate and push around.
 
DW said:
From what I've read so far all the shot does is lessen the severity of the symptoms. Those that have received the shot can still get, and spread the virus.
Click to expand...

That is correct- it can shed to someone else for up to two weeks after the shot. It's also being said that the shot is only good for 6 months and may require additional "experimental" vaccinations which is what is currently being administered.
 
DH56 said:
That is correct- it can shed to someone else for up to two weeks after the shot. It's also being said that the shot is only good for 6 months and may require additional "experimental" vaccinations which is what is currently being administered.
Click to expand...
Newly released date from Pfizer contradicts this.

They measured antibody levels 3 weeks post vaccine and 6 months post vaccine -- there was NO drop off in antibody levels in any patient. This is way better than the antibody response to actual infection. Duration is still unknown - not enough time has passed- but it's not unreasonable to expect at least 1-2 years.

Both Moderna & Pfizer are currently testing kids 6months - 17 years and prelim data dump shows the vaccines prevent both asymptomatic infections as well as transmissible viral load in vaccinates. (Pfizer has submitted for EUA for 12-16YO with 6months and older EUA expected by Sept). They know this b/c most of this age group is asymptomatic and they've had to do a whole lot more testing than they did in the original adult study.

**I'm both a veterinarian and a member of our county's disaster/biohazard response team and have kept up on this quite closely.
 
Kids in these age groups have the lowest risk to the Virus-according to current studies and testing. The potential to pass it on is still there to an unknown extent. My Brother was infected with the Virus from his grand daughter who is under 10 years old. Children have more of an impact as carriers. I would prefer to see testing on the higher risk groups where the virus has more of a detrimental impact and where it is needed the most.

The primary goal of clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccines was to show whether the vaccines prevent symptomatic infections and, in some cases, moderate or severe COVID-19.

Most trials weren’t designed to show whether the vaccines also block asymptomatic infections — those that don’t cause symptoms.

"Since those first studies, researchers have carried out additional research. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released initial results from on the real-world effectiveness of the two mRNA vaccines approved in the United States, those developed by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna-NIAID.

The vaccines were 90 percent effective at blocking infections — symptomatic and asymptomatic — in people who had two doses of the vaccine, and 80 percent effective in people who had one dose.

That means there was a 90 percent decrease in infections in people who were fully vaccinated compared with a similar unvaccinated group of people."

When you look at the probability of over 98% survival rate as a whole(varies by age group) for those infected with the virus, it comes down to the 2% of the population that this would help with the 80-90% survival rate and where it would impact the most.
 
SARs-COV-2 will never really go away at this point. We missed the window to contain/eliminate it like we did with SARS-1 and MERS.

Right now it's mutating so quickly that we're just chasing it -- some variants are more dangerous than others and some are more dangerous than the "original" version - the version the vaccines were initially tested against.

Data is becoming outdated almost as soon as it's published - this is, I guess, one of the drawbacks of doing science on live TV as it were. Usually all of this is worked out prior to being presented to the public and it can be hard to cut through the noise in real time - even those that happen to be in the field....
 
I don't think my 2 covid vaccination shots are working right! The turkeys are still smarter than me so I have not filled my tag with deliciousness YET. Maybe this coming weekend!
The wife is anxiously awaiting some of my famous (in my mind) turkey stew.

Zeke
 
White paper with peer review speaks to SARS-1 being treatable with the "demon" treatment that the pundits of DC said wasn't viable for SARS-2.

When SARS-1 broke out, that country kept it contained because it didn't have a pelosi, a schumer, a de blasio, and a cuomo screwing everything up.

This virus is mutating like all viruses do, and will join the ranks of the flu strains in chasing our tails trying to match the worst predicted from here on out.

Reality of life, might as well get used to it...
 
And Who is SKEERED?

Again?

Ocho!

That's Who!

It's Working Perfectly!



Togwotee said:
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.

If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.

Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Click to expand...
 
The moral of the OP... 79% of MM voters want the government to tell a private business whom they have to employ. They literally make a small business owner give money to somebody against their will. It's hard to get more socialist than that.

We're way beyond making a business sell a wedding cake against their wish, now we want to make them write somebody a paycheck for thousands of dollars a month.

Nevermind that there are businesses with real consequences for their employee's actions, like nursing home staff. Or a business with a high-risk individual that can't get vaccinated due to an allergy, etc.

Employees think they have a "right" to work where they want and the business owner better get used to it. SMH
 
I happen to know beyond a shadow of a doubt everything you hear about global warming on the national news is a lie. "Hottest Year on Record"....blah, blah. That's why I question what I'm hearing about this virus, especially when I hear many qualified people questioning the vaccine. It's amazing how many people all of a sudden love boomers now....something smells.

Don't be a climate denier.....I mean a vaccine denier. HA!

Do whatever you want and listen to whoever you want. Jump on the wagon, you're not alone, but don't do it thinking you're getting back to normal.

Here's another joke. 100 days from Jan.20th will be April 30th. Are you taking off your mask? Not a chance.

1:22 seconds

 
grizzly said:
The moral of the OP... 79% of MM voters want the government to tell a private business whom they have to employ. They literally make a small business owner give money to somebody against their will. It's hard to get more socialist than that.

We're way beyond making a business sell a wedding cake against their wish, now we want to make them write somebody a paycheck for thousands of dollars a month.

Nevermind that there are businesses with real consequences for their employee's actions, like nursing home staff. Or a business with a high-risk individual that can't get vaccinated due to an allergy, etc.

Employees think they have a "right" to work where they want and the business owner better get used to it. SMH
Click to expand...


Are small businesses above individuals? I've gonna back and forth on this grizz (if you can even see this) It's a genuine quandary.
 
Togwotee said:
Those who refuse to get vaccinated are riding on the backs of those who do. herd immunity welfare.

If we achieve herd immunity before the welfare recipients mutate the virus enough the vaccine fails.

Employers can and should require the vaccine . if you don't like it find another job , capitalism can't be held hostage by cowards.
Click to expand...
Why on Earth would I get an experimental vaccine for something that literally does not scare me in the least? Is it because it scares you and you think everybody else should get it because and it fits your beliefs? Nope not getting it, no thanks. If I was worried and scared how some are I would get it. You got the vaccine it sounds like, good for you I have no problems with that. IMO nobody should go tell anybody else they should get it, it is an individual choice.
 
Last edited:
schoolhousegrizz said:
Why on Earth would I get an experimental vaccine for something that literally does not scare me in the least? Is it because it scares you and you think everybody else should get it because and it fits your beliefs? Nope not getting it, no thanks. If I was worried and scared how some are I would get it. You got the vaccine it sounds like, good for you I have no problems with that. IMO nobody should go tell anybody else they should get it, it is an individual choice.
Click to expand...


It's the "my body my choice" crowd demanding everyone get it. You can't make this chit up!
 
Zeke said:
I don't think my 2 covid vaccination shots are working right! The turkeys are still smarter than me so I have not filled my tag with deliciousness YET. Maybe this coming weekend!
The wife is anxiously awaiting some of my famous (in my mind) turkey stew.

Zeke
Click to expand...

It's that white mask you're wearing. Change to camo and you should be good.
 
elkassassin said:
Last I Knew This is Still America?

Where We use to have a Choice/Choices We Could Make For Ourselves?

But They're Trying to Change it:

DO AS I SAY!

SLOWLY!

BUT DAMN SURELY!
Click to expand...
This IS still America, and as a business owner I have the right to run my business as I see fit. I don't need or want the government, you, or anyone else telling me how to run my business.

If I choose to require the vaccine as a condition of employment, then that is my right as a business owner. If someone doesn't want to work at my place of business as a result of that condition, they are welcome to go find employment somewhere else.

You want the government to tell you how to run your business??????
 
azhunteraz said:
If I choose to require the vaccine as a condition of employment, then that is my right as a business owner. If someone doesn't want to work at my place of business as a result of that condition, they are welcome to go find employment somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Your attorney good with that statement...?
 
roadrunner said:
Your attorney good with that statement...?
Click to expand...
regardless of the merit of either side, this is perfectly legal and has long precedent (for example, in the majority of jobs in the medical field, receiving the flu vaccine annually is a condition of employment).

a shocking number of vaccines are required of the military and more than a handful of vaccines are required to set foot in a school or daycare.
 
DW said:
Still waiting on somebody's expert friend to tell us what the long term effects of this vaccine are. I think I've got a long wait ahead of me.
Click to expand...
DW,
Think of all the shots the Navy gave you without any information other than being told to, "Get in line". You have any lasting affects from those? Just saying in the long term we are all dead.

I really don't care if you decide one way or the other , it should be up to you, but it seems like you want answers to a question that cannot be answered until the long term happens. Nobody really knows but I will bet you that for the vast majority of people there will be no long term damage to their health.

Nemont
 
Last edited:
azhunteraz said:
You want the government to tell you how to run your business??????
Click to expand...
So telling someone he/she has to take a vaccine and that is ok? Forcing people to do just that is just like you not liking the government or anyone else telling you what to do.

It's about choice and that concept America has lost in many areas of life.
 
Utahlefty said:
regardless of the merit of either side, this is perfectly legal and has long precedent (for example, in the majority of jobs in the medical field, receiving the flu vaccine annually is a condition of employment).

a shocking number of vaccines are required of the military and more than a handful of vaccines are required to set foot in a school or daycare.
Click to expand...
As long as their is understanding before hand that it is a requirement and/or condition of employment. In essence, a full disclosure. The flu vaccine is a proven occurrence, as you say, a long precedent. News today, however, the Johnson and Johnson version is currently on hold via the outcome of some patients that developed severe blood clotting, so no long precedence has been established for the SARS-2 vaccine. Yet...

azhunteraz said:
Other than a VERY few exceptions having to do with ADA (disabilities act) oversight, I absolutely CAN require a vaccination as a condition of employment if I so choose.

I am in Arizona. What state are you in??
Click to expand...

I find that it's a little hypocritical for someone to state they don't want government telling them how they should run their business, yet a business has the right to dictate the health and safety of an individual with a treatment, that although has passed clinical trials, has no long term data (to date) to establish any kind of trend or "precedence".

Hope you can prove what someone's moral convictions are or what they determine as their freedom of conscience is. The tenets of a religion don't necessarily constitute the very definition of the First Amendment for an individual. All that means is that that religion most closely aligns to what their deep held beliefs are. Termination over an innate fear of something or deep held belief is dangerous ground.

A high level (legal) review made for the purposes of generalizing is one thing, specifics are another. You as the employer, if under 15, would need to first try to make accommodations, according to the write up.

I would hate to be on the receiving end of a distraught widow with 2 children under the age of 5 suddenly without a primary bread winner and dad because he was mandated to receive a vaccine he was against and then had a weird allergic reaction to. Just sayin'...

Cheers.
 
What if a person refuses to get vaccinated because of a religious belief? Can a employer refuse to hire someone because of their religious beliefs? I don't know.
 
NeMont said:
DW,
Think of all the shots the Navy gave you without any information other than being told to, "Get in line". You have any lasting affects from those? Just saying in the long term we are all dead.



Nemont
Click to expand...


That's the primary reason I'm sittin this one out..
 
roadrunner said:
As long as their is understanding before hand that it is a requirement and/or condition of employment. In essence, a full disclosure. The flu vaccine is a proven occurrence, as you say, a long precedent. News today, however, the Johnson and Johnson version is currently on hold via the outcome of some patients that developed severe blood clotting, so no long precedence has been established for the SARS-2 vaccine. Yet...



I find that it's a little hypocritical for someone to state they don't want government telling them how they should run their business, yet a business has the right to dictate the health and safety of an individual with a treatment, that although has passed clinical trials, has no long term data (to date) to establish any kind of trend or "precedence".

Hope you can prove what someone's moral convictions are or what they determine as their freedom of conscience is. The tenets of a religion don't necessarily constitute the very definition of the First Amendment for an individual. All that means is that that religion most closely aligns to what their deep held beliefs are. Termination over an innate fear of something or deep held belief is dangerous ground.

A high level (legal) review made for the purposes of generalizing is one thing, specifics are another. You as the employer, if under 15, would need to first try to make accommodations, according to the write up.

I would hate to be on the receiving end of a distraught widow with 2 children under the age of 5 suddenly without a primary bread winner and dad because he was mandated to receive a vaccine he was against and then had a weird allergic reaction to. Just sayin'...

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I absolutely do NOT want the government telling me how to run my business. Just like I didn't like them dictating whether masks should be worn or not, I don't want them telling me whether I can or cannot require vaccines as a condition of working at my company. Did you agree with the government mandating masks?? Not me! I don't want the government mandating masks OR conditions of employment.

I am not at all dictating the health and safety of an individual. That individual has the option to go someplace else to work if they don't want to take a vaccine in this case. It is completely within their control to do that. Free country! I don't see it as hypocritical at all.

I am a business owner in Arizona because I love it here. It also happens to be a 'right to work' state, which sounds to some like it favors the employee but in reality is a plus for the business owner too, IMO. No unions in my company, in part due to right to work laws, and I like it that way.

Your extreme analogy regarding being on the receiving end of a distraught widow is lame for two reasons, IMO. First, the "bread winner" has the option to go someplace else to put bread on the table. Simple as that. Second, what about the woman who is widowed because someone who refused to take the vaccine then came into contact with someone doing business with my establishment and gave them a killer case of COVID? Just sayin'.... LOL
 
DH56 said:
So telling someone he/she has to take a vaccine and that is ok? Forcing people to do just that is just like you not liking the government or anyone else telling you what to do.

It's about choice and that concept America has lost in many areas of life.
Click to expand...
I 100% disagree with your argument because I am not forcing anyone to get a vaccine. They can simply go someplace else to work if that's what they want. Simple!

I find your last sentence about "choice" flawed, in that it does not recognize MY choice as a business owner to run my business they way I want. I am not taking away anybody's ability to choose to get a vaccine or not. They don't have to. Their choice. ;)

Did you argue for mask mandates??? I didn't, because I want the choice to wear one or not (and to make them mandatory in my business or not). I didn't want the government mandating that. Did you???
 
Wow i am very grateful where I work. We are considered essential so Couple months ago work got us in line for the vaccine. Choices were yes or no and that's it. We have over a 120 employees during campaign and 50 in the off season. Since we are in intercampaign and only 50 of us are around about 7 people went and got the vaccine. No consequences for us that didn't get it. Back during campaign we were never forced to wear a mask unless you wanted to. It Was a personal choice. Social distancing hardly ever happened but for those that asked were respected to have their space.We have young and old people. Ages from 18 to 78 years old.For covid cases at work we had 3 people that were postive. We had maybe 8-10 people that played the covid card but were seen in public so basically finding an excuse not to work .

Now one thing i noticed January 2020 we had a bug go through the factory. Was it covid?? Who knows..several of us had to take sick days. The symptoms were all covid signs. But every year a bug flu comes through and hits some and not others
 
@azhunteraz obviously thinks like a business owner. Business owners get to decide who works for them, as long as it's within the bounds of Federal Antidiscrimination Laws.

No employee is "forced" to do anything, they get to choose whether or not they keep their job. They don't have a "Right" to employment by the business of their choice.

Freedom rings on both sides of the bell.
 
azhunteraz said:
This IS still America, and as a business owner I have the right to run my business as I see fit. I don't need or want the government, you, or anyone else telling me how to run my business.

If I choose to require the vaccine as a condition of employment, then that is my right as a business owner. If someone doesn't want to work at my place of business as a result of that condition, they are welcome to go find employment somewhere else.

You want the government to tell you how to run your business.
Click to expand...
Sorry, after thinking about this I don't agree with people getting fired for not taking an EXPERIMENTAL VACCINE! Johnson and johnson was just recalled for blood clots. There have been plenty of problems with the other brands as well.
 
Last edited:
So let's say an employer wants to bang his secretary. He tells her she has to put out. Hey if she doesn't want to she can just work somewhere else??? Right??? She has choices. Nobody is forcing her.
 
Tristate said:
So let's say an employer wants to bang his secretary. He tells her she has to put out. Hey if she doesn't want to she can just work somewhere else??? Right??? She has choices. Nobody is forcing her.
Click to expand...

Nope. I just barely covered that.

grizzly said:
Business owners get to decide who works for them, as long as it's within the bounds of Federal Antidiscrimination Laws.
Click to expand...
There are federal discrimination laws that prevent that. Sexual Harassment has been adjudicated to be protected as sex discrimination.
 
I'm not talking about the law and what you can get away with Grizzly. I'm talking about the right of a woman to not have to pick between employment and whether or not to put something in her body, and a man having to pick between employment and putting something in his body.
 
Tristate said:
I'm not talking about the law and what you can get away with Grizzly. I'm talking about the right of a woman to not have to pick between employment and whether or not to put something in her body, and a man having to pick between employment and putting something in his body.
Click to expand...
A person can choose what they put in their body. They can't choose to work for a business that doesn't want them.

A business can't force a person to get a shot, but they can release an employee they choose not to employ (at least in my state).

If those two ideals are at odds then there is a clear solution. The person doesn't get the shot, the business doesn't employ them.

tenor.gif
 
grizzly said:
A person can choose what they put in their body. They can't choose to work for a business that doesn't want them.
Click to expand...
Now you are contradicting yourself Grizzly. You just said a woman can choose to work for a business that doesn't want her.
 
Tristate said:
Now you are contradicting yourself Grizzly. You just said a woman can choose to work for a business that doesn't want her.
Click to expand...
No I didn't. I clearly said their employment can be rescinded as long as it doesn't violate Federal Law. I said that twice in the last few minutes. You gave some sort of ridiculous sexual assault scenario which clearly violates the very federal law I mentioned and then you said you weren't talking about the law anyway.

You can keep talking about creepy boss/secretary theoreticals but I won't respond to them. Have a good one.
 
Tristate said:
So let's say an employer wants to bang his secretary. He tells her she has to put out. Hey if she doesn't want to she can just work somewhere else??? Right??? She has choices. Nobody is forcing her.
Click to expand...
Dumb analogy, IMO. There are laws specifically against sexual harassment, so your argument has absolutely zero cred when debating the topic at hand.

I'm assuming you know that though, and are just throwing a lame contrarian view out there. ?
 
I already told yall this isn't about law and what it will let you get away with. This is about the fact that one person seems to have rights to their body and other people have no rights to protect their body as they see fit and you take advantage of that.
 

Similar threads

Dr_Hunter
  • Poll
Late-Season Elk Hunt
Replies
74
Views
5k
Shadow
S
hikenhunt
when is it time for cadfg to realize their bullshit
Replies
43
Views
2k
chrisamx
chrisamx
Founder
  • Poll
Your Favorite Method of Hunting? (Poll)
Replies
55
Views
2k
heywouldya
heywouldya

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

20201225_220610.jpg
FB_IMG_1668989948181.jpg
STC_0333.JPG
P1010671.JPG
Screenshot_20210823-141312_Gallery.jpg
20141028_173641.jpg
IMG_1905.jpg
IMG_8712.jpeg
3145848F-B899-486C-A4EF-4412EE529529.jpeg
49168734-877B-4638-AAAC-4366691D7F85.jpeg
tmj3.jpg
image000000(5).jpg
Back
Top Bottom