Vaccine question....Poll

Should employers be allowed to require their employees to be vaccinated for Covid-19??


  • Total voters
    114
Employers - hire/fire/coerce/pressure whoever you legally want to according to your own morals. But I strongly feel you should get out of the business of providing “bubbles” from real world troubles and spread bull like you have an “absolute obligation to provide a safe environment” otherwise no matter WHAT goes wrong on your premises you are at fault through your own twisted logic. Here’s a fact - you CAN’T provide shelter from every virus, disease, act of god accident, meteor strike. If employers worried so much about simply avoiding stress which leads to employee heart attacks, or provide a healthy salad bar (while banning employees from eating poorly on premises, no doubt) you would definitively save lives. I don’t see that happening? Should you all be sued now? No. Look, voluntary vaccine use is pretty high and climbing. Why take the responsibility of this experiment on your shoulders? My view, you are being played as suckers by the gov/vaccine industry, leveraging YOUR business’s authority to serve THEIR ends, not yours.
 
Fine. Provide me blanket immunity from whiney ee’s suing me for a workers comp case.

Your employerer can make you shave your beard if you have to wear a respirator. Don’t like it, tough.

That imaginary lawyer bullchit is real.
 
Fine. Provide me blanket immunity from whiney ee’s suing me for a workers comp case.

Your employerer can make you shave your beard if you have to wear a respirator. Don’t like it, tough.

That imaginary lawyer bullchit is real.
Worker's comp in almost every state is sole remedy and you are alright immune from EE's suing to get it. That is left in the hands of the WC carrier and the law.

As for a requirement to be vaccinated to be employed I think any Employer who thinks they can require a jab as terms of employment should read the terms of the law. Congress reviewed and passed the Emergency Use Authorization for operation Warp Speed.

EUAs are clear: Getting these vaccines is voluntary

The same section of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act that authorizes the FDA to grant emergency use authorization also requires the secretary of Health and Human Services to “ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed … of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product.”

Likewise, the FDA’s guidance on emergency use authorization of medical products requires the FDA to “ensure that recipients are informed to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances … That they have the option to accept or refuse the EUA product …”

 
Worker's comp in almost every state is sole remedy and you are alright immune from EE's suing to get it. That is left in the hands of the WC carrier and the law.

As for a requirement to be vaccinated to be employed I think any Employer who thinks they can require a jab as terms of employment should read the terms of the law. Congress reviewed and passed the Emergency Use Authorization for operation Warp Speed.


That's one opinion, here's another...


"Can employers require employees to get a COVID-19 vaccine? If so, can employers terminate an employee who refuses to comply?

Yes, employers generally can require employees to be vaccinated for COVID-19, and they may be within their rights to terminate employees who refuse. The vaccination requirement, however, cannot be absolute. Employers must accommodate an employee's disability and religious beliefs."



 
EEOC said a vaccine may be required if it's "approved or authorized" by the FDA.

"In December, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission updated its guidance to indicate companies could require a COVID-19 vaccine as long as they provide for certain exemptions, mainly on the basis of religious beliefs under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and medical exemptions under the Americans With Disabilities Act."

Straight from the source... https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-...and-ada-rehabilitation-act-and-other-eeo-laws
 
I would suggest that for the vast majority of employers do not want to be a test case for whether it can or can not be made mandatory.

Think if an employer required a jab and the person reacted with one of the blood clot cases. Does that make the employers liable?

Read the whole thing you posted from the eeoc.gov link.
 
I would suggest that for the vast majority of employers do not want to be a test case for whether it can or can not be made mandatory.

Think if an employer required a jab and the person reacted with one of the blood clot cases. Does that make the employers liable?

Read the whole thing you posted from the eeoc.gov link.
Yeah, I did. A business owner could drive himself crazy thinking of all possible outcomes. What happens when an employer requires everybody to travel 30 miles to a training course and the employees engine blows up or they get in a car wreck? Are they personally responsible for the injuries or to replace the motor? No.

I'm not requiring it of my employees, but if I did, I'd feel comfortable defending my actions as reasonable if there was an adverse reaction with the available information we have. The employee's remedy would be with the Federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund, not with me as an employer.

To use your blood clot reference, the J&J has 6 known cases out of 6.8MM injections given. There are much riskier endeavors... like getting COVID.

Several businesses currently require vaccines (like my brother's work in Nebraska) and I know of no successful lawsuits against it so far.
 
I am not getting the vaccine. Period.
If my employer says I need it to keep my job. I’ll be looking for a new job. Same when the mask mandate happened. Told them if you want me to keep working I’m not wearing the mask. I kept working, with out a mask.
 
Your employerer can make you shave your beard if you have to wear a respirator. Don’t like it, tough.

Far cry different than injecting something into you that can't be reversed. Most guys will have their bumper guard back within the week and some sooner.

A large majority of people don't have an issue with a vaccine because we, as a society, have been conditioned to "need" it. It's the whole mandatory thing that gets a lot of people.

Funny thing, this God Complex some people have. The "ability" to make you do something or else...
 
This is obviously a bit tongue n cheek, but where is the line? You say they have the right to require this. To me this isn't asking an employee to wear long sleeves to cover their tattoos because that's not the image you want to project. This is getting involved in a person's health decisions, I assume to protect your business. Will we allow castration to prevent sexual harassment lawsuits? If you wanna keep yer nuts you can work somewhere else right? "Eunuchs only need apply!"
 
And what??? I need to spell it out for you? Ummm.... OK.

And.... Employers are requiring all sorts of things of people as a condition of employment. If you can fire someone for having pre-marital sex, then you can pretty much fire someone for just about anything (that isn't protected by discrimination or other laws). Good thing, too! Don't want any slutty gals walking around my office. That would bring down the morals (so called) of the whole place!!! Then there's the risk of STD. Yikes!!! :ROFLMAO:

God bless America!!!!
 
It's called a code of conduct, probably in her signed contract. How does this relate to the topic of forcing new vaccines on current employees?
 
I 100% disagree with your argument because I am not forcing anyone to get a vaccine. They can simply go someplace else to work if that's what they want. Simple!

I find your last sentence about "choice" flawed, in that it does not recognize MY choice as a business owner to run my business they way I want. I am not taking away anybody's ability to choose to get a vaccine or not. They don't have to. Their choice. ;)

Did you argue for mask mandates??? I didn't, because I want the choice to wear one or not (and to make them mandatory in my business or not). I didn't want the government mandating that. Did you???

There are a few flaws in your thought process. Let me explain.

1st off you say you don't force anyone to take the experimental vaccine and you are not forcing them to take it, but in reality if they need the job they will take the vaccine unwillingly whether you believe it or not. I know of several people that "had" to take the flu shot to keep their job in the past. Thinking you are not forcing someone is ignoring that possibility. That is reality.

Secondly there are candidates that may be looking for a new job that will not work for you due to that restriction. I know of several top tier, well sought after educated employees that would look the other way and work for someone else, preventing you from hiring those top candidates that potentially could help your business. I have been in the Business environment for over 40 years and have done well with great employees that have driven bottom line results mediocre employees could only dream of. People make the Business and having great employees helps the business sustain itself and excel. These top employees mentioned above have provided me a nice retirement due to their skill set and dedication to the business model that I have had and the pleasure of managing.

Good luck in your Business venture. I know it's demanding running your own business and rewarding if successful in the same respect.
 
Last edited:
There are a few flaws in your thought process. Let me explain.

1st off you say you don't force anyone to take the experimental vaccine and you are not forcing them to take it, but in reality if they need the job they will take the vaccine unwillingly whether you believe it or not. I know of several people that "had" to take the flu shot to keep their job in the past. Thinking you are not forcing someone is ignoring that possibility. That is reality.

Secondly there are candidates that may be looking for a new job that will not work for you due to that restriction. I know of several top tier, well sought after educated employees that would look the other way and work for someone else, preventing you from hiring those top candidates that potentially could help your business. I have been in the Business environment for over 40 years and have done well with great employees that have driven bottom line results mediocre employees could only dream of. People make the Business and having great employees helps the business sustain itself and excel. These top employees mentioned above have provided me a nice retirement due to their skill set and dedication to the business model that I have had and the pleasure of managing.

Good luck in your Business venture. I know it's demanding running your own business and rewarding if successful in the same respect.
Yep, I follow you on your line of thinking in point one. But I guess we'll just disagree on it at this point. If they take it unwillingly, then that in turn of course insinuates they were forced. There is ALWAYS an option for them to quit instead, therefore they are not really forced. Whether they can or cannot go get another job at another place is not my business, nor my problem in this case. As said, I think the interpretation of "forced" is where I'm hung-up at this point, and hence I guess we'll just disagree. ;)

Your second point is well taken, but to me really isn't a "flaw" in my thought process regarding whether a business owner should have the right to require vaccinations of their employees or not. Your are simply stating the obvious, which is that by taking that stance, a business owner would be limiting their candidate pool and possibly lose out on top candidates. That point could be made regarding multitudes of possible employment stipulations; morality clauses, non-smokers only clauses, mask mandates (or not) ,etc... As you of course know, each business owner is going to make their choices and will deal with the consequences one way or the other. It could be just as easily argued that a business owner may lose top talent by not requiring vaccinations. ;) I don't really see where this is a flaw in my argument for business owners being able to run their businesses how they see fit.

To me the bottom line is that just like I didn't like the government mandating masks, I also don't want the government dictating to me how to run and staff my business.

Indeed running a successful business is demanding AND rewarding in many ways. ?
 
It's called a code of conduct, probably in her signed contract. How does this relate to the topic of forcing new vaccines on current employees?
Relates at least loosely, in that it speaks to the rights of business owners to run their business as they see fit without government interference.

It wouldn't be "forcing" any current employee to get a vaccine. They would be free to not get the vaccine and go work someplace else if they choose. ;)

DW, were you in favor of government mask mandates?? Were you in favor of the government forcing business owners to limit the number of customers allowed in their establishment??? I was NOT in favor of either of those instances of the government telling business owners how to run their establishments, and I'm NOT in favor of the government dictating this either. ;)
 
So...let me get this right. We have the right to identify as what ever sex we want to....even a sex that doesn't exist biologically. People get their feelings hurt if I claim that a home has a "walk in closet" or that the "master bedroom" is over sized. Those that say that someone should be fired for NOT getting the vaccine is as crazy as allowing someone to KEEP their jobs for NOT getting the vaccine. Get it...it just doesn't matter. There is no right or wrong answer these days. It's a frickin free for all....no structure...no rules to follow to be law abiding citizens. I know sever cops who say the only cases they follow up on these days are murders, violent crimes and sexual crimes against minors. The rest are put not worth their time to follow up on.
I wish we could go back to the 50's where the man knew what was best and everyone just fell in line.
I haven't got the vaccine yet and if I had an employer tell me I HAD to get it, I'd tell him/her/it that I identify as a vaccinated, homosexual African American hermaphrodite.
 
DW, were you in favor of government mask mandates?? Were you in favor of the government forcing business owners to limit the number of customers allowed in their establishment??? I was NOT in favor of either of those instances of the government telling business owners how to run their establishments, and I'm NOT in favor of the government dictating this either. ;)


I wasn't in favor of any of it either AZ. I don't want my government to play dictator, nor would I want my employer. Fortunately like yourself, I'm self employed. I work the fall for a company in a different line of work. They came out saying they would require the vaccine for the fall. They suddenly had a mutiny on their hands. They quickly reversed course. Strength in numbers.
 
All of last year, from day one of any shutdowns through the present, I have shown up to work, in person mostly, at the office or often out in public, often having to meet and work with strangers. I have continued to do my job, write proposals, win work, and pick up slack well beneath my position for many colleagues and younger subordinates that were “working from home” due to covid. I have an older mother, a wife, kids, other family, a cancer survivor sister. I didn’t know what was going on any more than the next person, and was careful around documented at-risk people but put aside those worries for myself in order to survive financially and help save my company from disaster. There were a few others like me, not many - but the good ones. Now, having got through it, the fair weather friends who barely produced and got paid with PPP money and from other funds that folks like myself were able to earn, have cautiously emerged from their bunkers and dabbled back into the real world work, and many have gotten their vaccines. Its the talk of the town., alway “Did you get your shot yet??” Yet??? F-off. I didn’t have it when the world was collapsing and I don’t need it now. If my employer was to turn around and now require I get vaccinated against something I am not worried about and which I was probably exposed to a hundred times on their behalf, would be a slap in the face of the first order. Face it, companies need people like me more than 10 nervous nellies once the **** gets “real” and survival of the business is at stake, but once the clouds part, all of a sudden, for many it seems, the workhorse contrarians seem suddenly expendable. So far my company has shown good judgement and not mandated anything. Hopefully that doesn’t happen. I’d hate to have to quit.
 
And what??? I need to spell it out for you? Ummm.... OK.

And.... Employers are requiring all sorts of things of people as a condition of employment. If you can fire someone for having pre-marital sex, then you can pretty much fire someone for just about anything (that isn't protected by discrimination or other laws). Good thing, too! Don't want any slutty gals walking around my office. That would bring down the morals (so called) of the whole place!!! Then there's the risk of STD. Yikes!!! :ROFLMAO:

God bless America!!!!

You spelled it out for yourself. Ramsey's employees agreed before employment commenced as a condition of employment.

Did your employees have to agree to something similar? They have to agree you can make them comply to something on a whim?

You're in the wrong and unjustified to mandate solely based on because you think so. If your business has a high contact rate with a representative sample of the population up to and including the highly susceptible, that's one thing. So they, "your" employees, don't get sick and make you take a personal pay cut is an entirely different thing.

Poor comparison on the Ramsey write up...
 
All of last year, from day one of any shutdowns through the present, I have shown up to work, in person mostly, at the office or often out in public, often having to meet and work with strangers. I have continued to do my job, write proposals, win work, and pick up slack well beneath my position for many colleagues and younger subordinates that were “working from home” due to covid. I have an older mother, a wife, kids, other family, a cancer survivor sister. I didn’t know what was going on any more than the next person, and was careful around documented at-risk people but put aside those worries for myself in order to survive financially and help save my company from disaster. There were a few others like me, not many - but the good ones. Now, having got through it, the fair weather friends who barely produced and got paid with PPP money and from other funds that folks like myself were able to earn, have cautiously emerged from their bunkers and dabbled back into the real world work, and many have gotten their vaccines. Its the talk of the town., alway “Did you get your shot yet??” Yet??? F-off. I didn’t have it when the world was collapsing and I don’t need it now. If my employer was to turn around and now require I get vaccinated against something I am not worried about and which I was probably exposed to a hundred times on their behalf, would be a slap in the face of the first order. Face it, companies need people like me more than 10 nervous nellies once the **** gets “real” and survival of the business is at stake, but once the clouds part, all of a sudden, for many it seems, the workhorse contrarians seem suddenly expendable. So far my company has shown good judgement and not mandated anything. Hopefully that doesn’t happen. I’d hate to have to quit.
Well said!
 
You spelled it out for yourself. Ramsey's employees agreed before employment commenced as a condition of employment.

Did your employees have to agree to something similar? They have to agree you can make them comply to something on a whim?
A business owner certainly has the right to alter their policies as situations change, and a pandemic of a brand new virus would certainly count as a change of situation. No employer can be expected to foresee all possible scenarios at the date of hire. And if they operate in a Right To Work state the employees are at-will employees anyway.

@roadrunner, do you live in NM?

I'm assuming @azhunteraz lives in AZ?

I'm just wondering if the difference in opinion on the rights of a business owner come down to what we're used to living with. The following states are "Right To Work" states: Arizona, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Dakota, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Generally speaking, the conservative-leaning states are RTW and the liberal-leaning states are not.
 
Worker's comp in almost every state is sole remedy and you are alright immune from EE's suing to get it. That is left in the hands of the WC carrier and the law.
/[/URL]
This is misleading. It is the sole remedy if the parties agree to a settlement. Otherwise it’s in court or somehow tangled up with a bunch of insurance company lawyers.

As you point out, not all states are the same. In WY for example, you are “captive” to the state program. Most places it’s private coverage. Here in CO, you are responsible for the EE’s safety and well being 24/7 if they are working away from home. Yup, fall off a bar stool in the hotel bar and you got a WC case.

But this is tangential to the argument that there are a hundred federal, state and local laws that make the employer responsible for the health and safety of their employees, and require that they take steps to do so.

I agree that a “good” employer would make it voluntary and provide it. From a practical standpoint, the aviation and health sectors will determine what compliance really means anyway.

I don’t see a lot of difference between an airline requiring an employee to be vaccinated, or requiring it’s customer to be.
 
You spelled it out for yourself. Ramsey's employees agreed before employment commenced as a condition of employment.

Did your employees have to agree to something similar? They have to agree you can make them comply to something on a whim?

You're in the wrong and unjustified to mandate solely based on because you think so. If your business has a high contact rate with a representative sample of the population up to and including the highly susceptible, that's one thing. So they, "your" employees, don't get sick and make you take a personal pay cut is an entirely different thing.

Poor comparison on the Ramsey write up...
Grizz already sort of hit on this regarding changing conditions, etc...

That being said, I'm not sure if your two questions are rhetorical or direct, so I'll answer them. No and no. They do not have to agree to something similar, and they do not have to agree I can make them comply with something on a whim. ;) As Grizzly correctly pointed out, I am in a 'right to work' state, and hence I have the right as a business owner to run my thing as I see fit (Thank God!!).

Your final paragraph regarding me being in the wrong and unjustified literally made me laugh. :ROFLMAO: Are you in a union or something???? Those two adjectives are simply your view point, and are not fact. Therefore they have absolutely zero credibility and bearing on my decisions regarding requiring vaccines or not (or anything else) from my employees. Your backhanded comment regarding my employees getting sick so I don't take a personal pay cut is also a little funny. You have no idea what my business is or how it is run, nor the motivation I have to mandate (or not) vaccines. I promise you that no matter whether I mandate vaccines or not, I will not be taking a pay cut. ;)

I have the same question for you that I have asked others. Did you support government mask mandates?????? I did NOT support that anymore than I support the government's involvement in any other aspect of my life or business. So, are you in favor of mask mandates???
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom