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treedagain

treedagain

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Utah's DWR takes blame for bighorn sheep killed 'illegally' on Nebo

Robyn Waldrip has a passion for shooting very large wild animals. The Texas bodybuilder pays a
archive.sltrib.com archive.sltrib.com

TRISTATE, here is a link to the full KSL story when Wade made his statements about regular hunters....no cut and paste
Screenshot_20200215-173606_Chrome.jpg
 
Doesn't look like he was complaining about "regular hunters". Looks like he is talking about people who complain about the ram. Which by the looks of the title the state of Utah took responsibility for. Thanks for clearing that up.


Next time don't be all butthurt about being called a knucklehead. Especially when you are acting like a knucklehead.
 
If it squeaks like a duck....most likely it's a duck. You should move back to California.....

What do you call the "guys who buy a $25 tag?

Like I have said before...your not a Texan, maybe an Austin liberal, but still a liberal knucklehead.
 
The next sentence which is finished by the author and not Wade. The author is counting on readers to be knuckleheads. He's in luck and you're hooked.

Kind of low hanging fruit if you asked me.
 
treedagain said:
Like I have said before...your not a Texan, maybe an Austin liberal, but still a liberal knucklehead.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure this isn't a political issue.

I'd imagine Lemon is a Trump-supporter and he's the one that made the comments of note; so I don't see how the political persuasion of Lemon's MM Cheerleader is relevant at all as that would make it nothing more than a liberal defending a conservative. Hard to put much stock in whatever conclusion that leads you to.

There are all types of people in every state and on every side of the political spectrum.
 
Tristate......even a Liberal Texan should know what "quotation" means. I guess I was wrong.

I wonder if they had that lion in a pen just before you ran it?
 
If the quoted comments are correct, it's a pretty uncool comment.

"Lemon said his clients "put a lot of money into Utah," more than those complaining about the ram.
"These knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spit-balling these people. Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat" for habitat conservation, he said."
 
The actual quotes by Lemon are

"Put a lot of money into Utah "

"These knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spitballing these people "

"Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat"

Those are mix and matched sentence fragments. THE REST OF THE QUOTE IS THE AUTHOR'S WORDS.
 
That's what you don't understand. I am not a "spokesman" for Wade Lemon. I would say the exact same things if these things were done to you, or founder, or even Hossblur. I am a spokesman for logic and reason. Two things which are seriously lacking on the internet.
 
No Wade is referring to the Waldrip's being spitballed. You have read the article wrong Tri. Here it is, Lemon said his clients "put a lot of money into Utah," more than those complaining about the ram. Here's the next sentence. "These knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spit-balling these people. Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat" for habitat conservation, he said. (WADE LEMON) So it appears your reading comprehension needs work TRI.
 
Also from the article

"We had the go-ahead. We are in the right," said Lemon. (Go ahead does not justify something being legal)

According to DWR, the employee Lemon had spoken with "does not work in the region that oversees the Nebo unit and was unaware of the rule that requires the two hunters to alternate hunting years. Consequently, the employee told the outfitter that he believed it was legal." Believed and is are two different things.
 
Westerntines,

The words between quotation marks are Wade's only words the rest are the authors. That is grammar.


Again. Look at the title of the article. That is the important fact. UTAH TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM. Quit ignoring things for hate and jealousy.

Answer a question. Why do you think THE STATE OF UTAH TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM? Why would they do that?
 
Yes, Utah does have fault in it. The employee should have lost his job So does the guide he should lose his outfitters license. So does the hunter. In their case they deserve a verbal warning or minimal fine. It clearly reads in the big game rule book it is your job to know where you are hunting. The DNR slams average joe's on that one all day long. And no you don't know how to read an article, again here it is. "These knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spit-balling these people. Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat" for habitat conservation, he said. If it were the authors opinion it would say I said, I believe ect. It's alright you can just admit you read it wrong, because you clearly have. And I'm not jealous they knew what they were doing. They knew what they were doing when the guy on the pauns. pulled his stunt. They knew what they were doing when they pulled their mexico stunt. Guess what there is another video of an incident on the Pahvahnt on a muzzy elk hunt where they did something shady in 2018. The guide tried to play dumb about it. A buddy and another guy filmed the whole ordeal. Do I hate WLH absolutely they are what is wrong with guided hunting. Too much money involved and willing to do whatever even if it is shady. All for a hash tag and paycheck. And the problem is they get away with it. This wouldn't fly with an average DIY hunter. They'd be nailed to the wall.
 
"It clearly reads in the big game rule book it is your job to know where you are hunting. "


It is quite interesting that what is "clearly stated in the big game book" is the source of your anger and hatred but not the reason for you understanding why THE STATE OF UTAH TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM.

I asked you that question so hopefully you would actually think. Instead you only reacted. The best thing that came out of your post is your admission of hate.

Now try and answer the question. WHY would the state of Utah take responsibility for the killing of the ram?
 
grizzly said:
I hit the IGNORE button on chub's profile. Best thing I ever did! His garbage doesn't even show up on my screen. If it weren't for people responding to him by name, I wouldn't even know he existed. Love this new MM format!
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Then why are you posting Grizzly? There's nothing left for you. Are you scared people here might learn the truth about something or develop a different opinion than yours? You made your decision boy. I'm proud of you. Go talk to the yes people.
 
The state probably took responsibility because of deep pocket hunters and shady guides contributions to the state fish and wildlife.

If you are ok with that then fine. Many aren't. But not much can be done about it. Aside from calling a spade a spade on a popular Utah hunting forum and .....hopefully....getting through to enough people to put a dent in said shadynguides bank accounts.

If the state of Utah wants to sell its azz to these people I guess they will. Prostitution is a choice. Shouldnt be the right one for ethical hunters and state wildlife agencies....but it is a choice.

Bill
 
Tristate said:
"It clearly reads in the big game rule book it is your job to know where you are hunting. "


It is quite interesting that what is "clearly stated in the big game book" is the source of your anger and hatred but not the reason for you understanding why THE STATE OF UTAH TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM.

I asked you that question so hopefully you would actually think. Instead you only reacted. The best thing that came out of your post is your admission of hate.

Now try and answer the question. WHY would the state of Utah take responsibility for the killing of the ram?
Click to expand...

The rule of knowing where you can and can’t be would take presidence in a court of law over the missing rule. As it would be the foundation . It’s pure common sense. You missed the reasoning why I hate lemon read that one again. Why did the division take blame. Same reason politicians wanted the Epstein case to go away. They were bangin under aged girls as well or they knew about it and he had dirt on them. Same thing with lemon and the dnr he’s probably got something on them. I doubt it has to do with underage girls or anything of that type of nature. Where there is smoke there’s fire and WLH sure produces a lot of smoke.
 
Just to put this in perspective a little...

My son and I were hunting cow elk on private property, we came out with two cows and no hunter orange and a DWR officer was waiting at my truck... That was a $170.00 each lesson learned...

I wonder if big name outfitters and their clients would have the same outcome?
 
Huntindad4,

Thanks for trying to answer the question although you missed the mark. Westerntines was actually very close to the answer when he invoked the big game guide book in his post. Yall are overthinking this. It's no conspiracy. No payouts. Just the same problem that effects all business, public and private.

What does putting a dent in anyone's bank account do for you?
 
wstrntines said:
The rule of knowing where you can and can’t be would take presidence in a court of law over the missing rule. As it would be the foundation . It’s pure common sense. You missed the reasoning why I hate lemon read that one again. Why did the division take blame. Same reason politicians wanted the Epstein case to go away. They were bangin under aged girls as well or they knew about it and he had dirt on them. Same thing with lemon and the dnr he’s probably got something on them. I doubt it has to do with underage girls or anything of that type of nature. Where there is smoke there’s fire and WLH sure produces a lot of smoke.
Click to expand...


You really think that? The prosecuting attorney and dnr are totally separate. Do you think a middle class working guy in rural Utah holds dirt on the dnr and prosecutors???????? Why would he waste time outfitting hunts if he had that much power?????? Man that's some conspiracy.

Your first sentence is interesting. So what happens when the defendant produces documents approved and supplied by the state before the hunt began specifically placing the tag holder in that area???? Then what happens in a court of law? I know, you know, and the state knows. That's why they aren't wasting time on this and that's why they took responsibility.
 
Tri, you forgot to add the front of your comment the term....in my opinion.......in my opinion anyways.

I know YOU like to THINK that YOU are the smartest individual on the internet but the reality is the smartest people on the internet know not to engage in conversations like this with people who THINK they are the smart ones...follow?

Ever heard the term, if you think you’re the smartest person in the room/conversation/website pizzing match, you’re probably the dumbest?

Bill
 
Putting a dent in someone’s bank account does nothing for me, but does do something TO them.

Kinda like fines....they work, sometimes.

Bill
 
Tikka said:
Just to put this in perspective a little...

My son and I were hunting cow elk on private property, we came out with two cows and no hunter orange and a DWR officer was waiting at my truck... That was a $170.00 each lesson learned...

I wonder if big name outfitters and their clients would have the same outcome?
Click to expand...


I believe they would be ticketed Tikka. When I went cat hunting a couple of weeks ago I had to register my cat with a game warden. He knew I hunted with an outfitter. He did not treat me any different than the wardens back home when I am DIY. He was professional and on task.

I have to admit for a minute I couldn't find my license stub in my pack and honestly I didn't know I had to retain it after tagging the carcass. I wasn't thinking I'll be fine because I was with an outfitter. I was scared I had done something stupid that was going to cost me. Luckily I located the stub in the pack.
 
huntindad4 said:
Tri, you forgot to add the front of your comment the term....in my opinion.......in my opinion anyways.

I know YOU like to THINK that YOU are the smartest individual on the internet but the reality is the smartest people on the internet know not to engage in conversations like this with people who THINK they are the smart ones...follow?

Ever heard the term, if you think you’re the smartest person in the room/conversation/website pizzing match, you’re probably the dumbest?

Bill
Click to expand...


There's no need to make this about me now. I have never accused you of not being smarter than me. Don't turn this into some emotional attack just because you may have to realize the THE STATE OF UTAH TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM for dam good reason.
 
huntindad4 said:
Putting a dent in someone’s bank account does nothing for me, but does do something TO them.

Kinda like fines....they work, sometimes.

Bill
Click to expand...
I fine is justice. Hoping someone loses money based on rumor and gossip isn't justice.
 
Tikka said:
Just to put this in perspective a little...

My son and I were hunting cow elk on private property, we came out with two cows and no hunter orange and a DWR officer was waiting at my truck... That was a $170.00 each lesson learned...

I wonder if big name outfitters and their clients would have the same outcome?
Click to expand...
Damn Tikka the same thing happened to my two sons and mysel. 170.00 each?
 
You are correct Tri, you have never made that accusation.

It is in method of response, you always think you are being factual and correct and others are being solely emotional. Sometimes you are correct. Others you are way off. It’s an air you have about you.

The fact that the state took responsibility for the poaching of the ram is disgusting. If I was to shoot something illegally on the word of some guy who answered a phone in a game and fish office and it turned out he was wrong, I would be held accountable, simple as that.

The reason they took responsibility is not because the rules were unclear to a point that even an educated fish and wildlife employee couldnt figure it out. It’s possible that the poacher had a high dollar lawyer that convinced them that a jury would see it that way. But any half smart prosecutor would argue that the employee saying “I’m not sure” or “I’m pretty sure“ would indicate, not that he couldn’t figure it out but that as an employee not responsible for figuring it out he simply had no motivation to do so.

Your arguments imply that you believe if a person can get away with, whether it is ethical or legal, through some loophole, then he should.

As for a fine being justice, well there was zero chance for justice in this case. So, just as if someone breaks into my home and steals my shotgun and nobody from law enforcement or the courts choose to do something about it, through some loophole, then I see someone out hunting ducks with said shotgun, I will be administering some justice myself. Still justice IMO.

BILL
 
A Colorado Warden Was Watching me I Guess!

Stopped Me And Said:

(While I'm in My Truck!)

You're Orange Better be Reachable!

Show Me that Law/Rule?


Tikka said:
Just to put this in perspective a little...

My son and I were hunting cow elk on private property, we came out with two cows and no hunter orange and a DWR officer was waiting at my truck... That was a $170.00 each lesson learned...

I wonder if big name outfitters and their clients would have the same outcome?
Click to expand...
 
The fact that the state took responsibility for the poaching of the ram is disgusting. If I was to shoot something illegally on the word of some guy who answered a phone in a game and fish office and it turned out he was wrong, I would be held accountable, simple as that.


And that's my point. It wasn't just as simple as that. There was more than that. That's what people here don't want to admit.

Treedagain,

I'm actually at a basketball tournament. It's a great day.
 
If tri had to actually deal with the negative side of wlh like the rest of us, he'd think differently. Their holding his hand, that's why he defends the guy.
 
We'll never know berryblaster. Apparently the authorities got the answer and didn't think it changed anything.

Huntindad4,

When someone breaks into your house and takes your shotgun and the courts and law enforcement don't prosecute them it's not called a "loophole". Its called a warrant. I would suggest not confronting them.
 
Tristate said:
We'll never know berryblaster. Apparently the authorities got the answer and didn't think it changed anything.

Huntindad4,

When someone breaks into your house and takes your shotgun and the courts and law enforcement don't prosecute them it's not called a "loophole". Its called a warrant. I would suggest not confronting them.
Click to expand...


Some of us do know.

Price wasn't the first office they called. I learned that when I CALLED cedar city, which WAS WLH local office. Seems WLH didn't get the answer he wanted in Cedar.(Mostly because WLH is famous for this stunt).

So they called Price, and talked to a fisheries biologist.


Unlike Tri. I actually talked to the biologist.


They weren't prosecuted, NOT because the attorney didn't see wrong doing(I asked), but because the court cost against the WALDRIPS would have cost too much. Nebo County doesn't have a huge budget. The Waldrips do.

Now. That's the end of my actual knowledge.

The rumor or theory I got from a DWR official, was that the WALDRIPS spend a ton in Utah, plus the black eye of the gov tag being charged poaching would have put a dent in the deep pockets that use Utah as their playground.

I can't prove that, but it's pretty logical.

We all read the rulebook. It is very specific that WRITTEN RULE overruled spoken. We also all know it wasn't WLH first gov tag. We know they promote themselves as the best sheep outfitters in the state. We also know that WLH would have zero problem talking to DWR director. Last. They called. They were aware of the law, that's proven by tgem calling in the first place.

So TRI. They weren't charged because OF PR.

The knucklehead comment was 100% Wade.

He did another interview where he backed off it.
 
And so you know Tri.

I called those offices, and talked to those people because I POSTED the sheep thread and I grew tired of the circular BS you spewed.

So thanks to You I did some homework.

Oh, and there were GRAMMA filed.

So there it is.

The OP was a new state record sheep.

Guys like me jumped on to see.

Then rumors started rolling about being shot on closed unit. RUMORS.

You kept saying "rumors"

THEN BLAAAAMMM!
Not sure why you posted that, but in about 5 min all the local guys were pointing out the nebo bowls in the background. Thanks to your pic, Texas flag and all, chit hit the fan.

I called. Others called. GRAMMA requests. Tribune articles.

All thanks to you.

Can you imagine the chit storm that hit at WLH. Lawyering up. Assaults on social media. Articles. Bad press.

Can You imagine just how damm pizzed Wade was when he found out the source of all of it was some dude out of Texas posting pics on a forum, OF SOMEONE ELSES SHEEP?

WE ALL KNOW how pizzed. Pizzed enough he found you and sent you a cease and desist.

I'm guessing Robyn ain't exactly gushing about her love for you either. That hunting show she was lobbying for hit the skids after that too.


Like I've always said. You are a gift.

Grizz is foolish to block you. Your a gift
 
You wrote a book.?????

A fiction book. Its awesome to see the amount of crazy you can cook up in your head. ????

You stayed up late writing all that made up stuff with lawyers and fake phone calls and made up history. I like the lawyers and cease and desist letter part.

The best part though is when you state

"I can't prove that but its pretty logical".

????????

Not really. Not at all.??????
 
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I will say hossblurs story is out there....but I think it may be closer to the truth than saying that one of the top guides in Utah didn’t know where he was supposed to hunt with one of only two sheep tags for a premier sheep unit...

Bill
 
Sounds like Tristate just got it handed to him. That is true. It is true that Tristate is pro poacher. It is true that Tristate does not have a firm grip on reality. It is true Tristate cares more about you got than how you got it. It is true that Tristate really does not care about game laws, why would he? He is Tristate, sitting on his internet throne, king of nothing but himself.

Not even debatable by a liberal Texas fool.
 
Hoss, Where is Nebo County?
Can I hunt sheep there?
Just hassling you!
I think you meant the county Nebo resides in which if I remember right this case was was looked over by Utah county. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Man Tristate must be one bored poor soul. to spend as much time trying to Argue about stuff in a state he has no clue about. Face Triatate your not a Utah'n hell I doubt anyone in Texas would blame you
Tristate the troll of all trolls
 
Five straight posts about me because yall have been forced to realize that this entire thread and your hatred is based on bullcrap. Its easier just to admit it.
 
Just ignore the troll. We know how wlh operates, whatever it takes to get the job done. How does a guy find out about the supposed citations on the island? The rumors are it was wade's own kid that was one of the two.
 
"Just ignore the troll. We know how wlh operates, whatever it takes to get the job done. How does a guy find out about the supposed citations on the island? The rumors are it was wade's own kid that was one of the two. "

Are you sure you are a man?

What kind of person types that garbage?
 
I personally did not know there was such a rule as the Governers tag and the Sportsmans sheep tag they could not hunt certain units on select units on every other year, I do believe a needed and good rule/law.
I do believe Wade Lemon did know the rule/law and playing ignorant of the rule/law is a poor excuse at best.
But with all that has been said I do not blame the County DA he could only prosecuted according to what evidence he got handed from the DWR, which I have no idea what the DA got giving to him.
As far as i know all the evidence the DA got was the said hunter was guided by said guide on said unit they were not supposed to be on that year but a employee of the DWR said they could hunt it that year.
Though case for County DA to prosecute.
Back in the early 1990 the Manti and Fishlake elk units first started with the LE elk hunts the boarder was the boarder fence that separated the two National Forests that boarder fence is mostly just a 4 strand barb wire fence which always has spots knocked down by cattle or elk and every year there was a few elk that got shot by someone that did not have the right tag for the unit they shot there elk in. The Sanpete and Sevier county attorney spent alot of money trying to prosacute these cases finally it was agreed on to move the unit boundaries to Interstate 15.
I know not the same as Wade's lame excuse but I am just trying to say not always the District Attorneys fault often in DWR cases the evidence is pretty circumstantial. Not bacause lack of try on the Fish and Game officers part it is just the nature of investigating wildlife crimes.
 
"But with all that has been said I do not blame the County DA he could only prosecuted according to what evidence he got handed from the DWR, which I have no idea what the DA got giving to him.
As far as i know all the evidence the DA got was the said hunter was guided by said guide on said unit they were not supposed to be on that year but a employee of the DWR said they could hunt it that year. "


Guess who doesn't know all the evidence?

ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY ON THESE FORUMS INCLUDING ME.

Apparently there was strong enough evidence that THE STATE OF UTAH TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.
 
Tristate is in his own dream land again.

You sure talk like you have all the facts
Just because you are wrapped up with the Wade Lemon group and drink his koolaid daily means Jack crap to anybody who is looking at this with an open mind.

Just another entitled Texan spewing garbage. I know quite a few Texan's some of the best people you will find anywhere, gals like you give them a bad name.
 
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Haha, from what I can infer from the comments above...

Tri is telling everybody they're wrong while asserting nobody has all the facts. If that's true, then how can he be so sure everybody else is wrong?

And the good thing is, I won't even have to see his reply!!!
 
notdonhunting said:
Hoss, Where is Nebo County?
Can I hunt sheep there?
Just hassling you!
I think you meant the county Nebo resides in which if I remember right this case was was looked over by Utah county. Correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...


Pretty sure that was one of the loopholes. The jurisdiction wasn't clear.





DWR law enforcement officers investigated the incident and handed their findings to the Juab County prosecutor, who declined to file charges. -SLC TRIBUNE
 
Went back an read the entire article as some stuff I've forgot. Found this nugget I'd forgot


Lemon's guides took Waldrip to Nebo on Sept. 1, the day the season opened. A DWR biologist called the outfitter informing him that Nebo was not open this year to conservation tag holders. By the time Lemon reached his guides by cellphone, the client had already made the kill. - SLC TRIBUNE

Im sure WLH was just torn up that they missed the message. Just like I'm sure WLH who has guides all over God's country didn't own a sat phone or inreach. Im sure his guides send smoke signals when they kill and need the horses or a pickup.

It's awesome how on one hand WLH is the world's premier sheep guide, guides gov tags, is hired all over North and South America because they ate just that good, but they don't own communication, they don't know laws regs. They spent all summer scouting that ram, including video footage I'm sure, yet the old flip phone just didn't work. And after decades he had No idea the nebo was closed. He just randomly called a fish cop in Price. Probably wondering how Joe's Valley was fishing.

Tri. That's me peeing down your leg. It ain't raining

Hey Tri.

You should go read it. There's a beautiful pic of a pretty lady with a big ram, and a gun with a Texas sticker on it.

Why would you ever take down your pic?
 
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Jurisdiction was clear, that was not an issue. It was not in Utah County. Charges were not filed because the DWR, which was the law enforcement agency in charge of investigating the incident, bungled this one beyond repair and specifically asked the county attorney to not file charges.
 
It's fine to debate (argue), but no name calling, calling others stupid, etc. You all know. This thread probably needs to be locked soon if it continues to require a bunch of time.
 
Juab County didn’t do anything wrong here. They can only take the evidence, facts, and cases that are given to them.

Tri is correct about one thing on this one: the DWR (who he calls “the state of Utah”) really screwed this one up badly.
 
Vanilla said:
Juab County didn’t do anything wrong here. They can only take the evidence, facts, and cases that are given to them.

Tri is correct about one thing on this one: the DWR (who he calls “the state of Utah”) really screwed this one up badly.
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Sorry my bad I stated that wrong. I meant thanks for correcting me i had stated earlyer Utah county.
I thought i had maid it clear in earlier post i did not think it was County Attorney fault.
 
How did the DWR figure out that the wrong information had been givin to WL? They must have realized they screwed up if they contacted WL to try to stop the hunt. How much time elapsed from "the call" to trying to shut it down?
 
elkantlers said:
How did the DWR figure out that the wrong information had been givin to WL? They must have realized they screwed up if they contacted WL to try to stop the hunt. How much time elapsed from "the call" to trying to shut it down?
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Id assume when they heard WLH had called numerous DWR offices fishing for an answer?

If you are waiting for me to defend the State, don't hold your breath.

I agree with WLH, i think his guys "memorized the proclaimation".

And I'm sure after seeing that ram on nebo and doing so, they knew there was a loophole. That's why you talk to a biologist in Price rather tgan call the DWR office in SLC. Or the sheep "boss".

He saw a loophole. He exploited it. Combine that with a gazillionaire doing the killing and it's pretty easy to see how it went down.

But someone else mentioned it.

Funny how WLH seems to keep popping up in these issues.

Lots of guides in this state. One seems to always "just happen" to be part of them. And that's the illegal stuff. I'm gonna assume the unethical, dirty, shady stuff is numerous.
 
elkassassin said:
The Battery Mighta went Dead Shortly after that Call!

KIDDIN!
Click to expand...

I bet you right...


hossblur said:
If you are waiting for me to defend the State, don't hold your breath.
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I believe the State got played but they were still in the wrong.

I just find it interesting that WL waited until opening day to make a call to an office in a different region as the unit they were asking about. Also, Mrs Texas must have been on the mountain in the wrong unit when the call was made after the office opened up for the day.
I know we're beating a dead horse on this particular issue but talking about it keeps WLH's shenanigans on everyone's mind and one day him or one of is "elite" guides is going to do something "illegal enough" that the DWR won't de able to turn a blind eye any longer.
 
The sheep incident is one that will never go away for me. It’s as dirty as it gets, and should never be swept under the rug or forgotten.

It’s too bad that money and greed have driven hunting to where it is today. People used to hunt because that is just who they were, it was a way of life. Now it’s about status and likes.

At least we’ll always have tri to come in here and blow an issue up more than it ever could have been on its own. The sheep incident isn’t the only one he did that for. Remember his posts on the Hyde Park buck that was poached? I happen to know the thread he kept going on MM specifically led to evidence that resulted in that conviction. So in his bid to defend poachers, he’s actually harming them. I’ll take it!
 
I am sure the game wardens are not all that happy about this. It is their job to enforce the game laws and I am sure they do like guides taking advantage of "loopholes". I have to believe they will keep a closer eye on WLH
 
Tristate said:
Then why are you posting Grizzly? There's nothing left for you. Are you scared people here might learn the truth about something or develop a different opinion than yours? You made your decision boy. I'm proud of you. Go talk to the yes people.
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Tri, you do realize you are responding to someone who will not see the response.....right?
 
Rutcrazed,

You do realize he is responding to me with his posts. He ain't ignoring me. Don't kid yourself.


I think its funny yall think it was loopholes and someone pulling a fast one on the state. Do yall actually believe the state would be taking responsibility for it if anyone had manipulated the system????????? Hellllllllllll no they wouldn't.

THE STATE OF UTAH TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS BECAUSE THEY SCREWED UP AND IT WAS THEIR FAULT.

None of you know what the hell went on here. NONE OF YOU KNOW. Yet you have all grabbed onto little tidbits of info and are willing to gossip yourselves into a hissy.



Vanilla,

I want you to answer a straight question. No B.S. If you lost a murder trial and the guy got off with something you thought was a manipulative loophole would the state come out and take responsibility for the homicide???????
 
The state has dismissed murder charges due to state actor mistakes many times in this state and in all others. That is nothing new.

Doesn’t change the fact that there is still a dead person.
 
You are dodging the question Vanilla. Have you ever seen the state accept responsibility for the homicide after the charges were dismissed????????? Answer that.


Rutcrazed,

You asked this question.

"Can you seriously say that only the State was at fault?? "

Yes you can if you know all of the evidence. With only what you provide to us it is difficult. But that's my point is there is a lot none of us know about this fiasco. Justice isn't about picking what you want to know from the internet and deciding to lynch people over it. I can tell you this though, THE STATE TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM. The fact that they did that tells me there is a lot more evidence than the fragments we talk about and think we know on the internet.
 
Just like anything else as long as there's thousand $$$ and thousand $$$ Of dollars involved there is always going to be greed curuption and unethical garbage going on and as long as there is people willing buy their trophies it's not going change things here in utah and alot of these people are going to do whatever they have too to get their share of the take and the regular hunter (sportsman) and our big game is going to take it in the shorts
 
Tri you're twisting again...

The State is taking responsibility for the way the ram died not that he died.

Bill
 
huntindad4 said:
Tri you're twisting again...

The State is taking responsibility for the way the ram died

I'm not twisting anything. The article clearly states they are taking responsibility for the illegal killing of a ram on the Nebo.
Click to expand...
 
Tri,

I honestly have no dog in this fight and don't really care what guides do or don't do. However, you continue to state that no one knows ALL the information in the fiasco. This is true, but if this is true and you continue to point out that no one knows all the information, why are you so ignorant to admit that maybe there are reasons unknown to you as to why the State TOOK RESPONSIBILITY (all caps just like you enjoy doing)? Maybe the State was looking at a lawsuit from the hunters lawyers. Maybe the State truly are the only ones at fault. Maybe WLH are the ones that manipulated the system and should be at fault, but the State didn't have enough evidence to prosecute. Maybe Juab County didn't have the means to prosecute WLH and the hunter. Again, you are the one saying no one has all the information, so for you to vehemently defend WLH as to them doing nothing wrong is asinine at best.

Your question back to Rutcrazed illustrates your double standard. He asks, "can you seriously say that only the State was at fault" and you respond with "yes you can if you know all of the evidence." Then you proceed to say no one knows all the evidence. So an honest question to yourself, based on your own admission to not knowing everything should be.... How can I Tristate, wholeheartedly and 100% place all the blame on the State when I myself don't even know all the facts?


Rutcrazed,

You asked this question.

"Can you seriously say that only the State was at fault?? "

Yes you can if you know all of the evidence. With only what you provide to us it is difficult. But that's my point is there is a lot none of us know about this fiasco. Justice isn't about picking what you want to know from the internet and deciding to lynch people over it. I can tell you this though, THE STATE TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RAM. The fact that they did that tells me there is a lot more evidence than the fragments we talk about and think we know on the internet.
[/QUOTE]
 
hunter03, you are trying to work in the world of reason. Not his realm. You are making way too much sense.

Tri, you are trying to box this in a absolutes. Nobody else is... true he is not criminally guilty but if this were a lawsuit, wherein one is as a judge or jury able to reasonably deduce that WL knew full well what he was doing...this is the box everyone else is using.

Twist and spin...

Bill
 
Tri keeps claiming that nobody here knows what happened. Another completely false statement by him. He assumes because he doesn't know, that nobody else does. But we've been down that road before. I'm sure he'll go talk to three fake lawyers at a dinner that didn't happen and they'll give him sound legal advice on this one.
 
I apologize and realize I wasn't clear in my answer. I was trying to answer Rutcrazes question as if he was asking it without the state already taking responsibility. I thought that was what he was asking.

If you want me to answer the question regarding can I say the state was solely at fault when they take responsibility? Yes. They are the governing body that makes all the rules, enforces the rules, and prosecutes the offenders. THEY HAVE ACCESS TO ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE. Not the internet gossip but the real evidence. And at the end of the day they say they are not prosecuting anyone and that the DWR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. Yes I can put all responsibility on the state. They know the evidence they have the authority and they have decided to take the blame.

Let me also state that there isn't one shred or infantesimal iota of evidence that anyone within the dwr or county attorney's office is corrupt or has entered into a conspiracy with any of the involved parties . None. Zero. No one here has produced anything of the sort. If they have said evidence I suggest they turn it over to federal authorities.

As for your question as to whether the state did not have enough evidence to prosecute. That can happen but in those cases the state doesn't turn around and take responsibility for the crime.

As for your hypothetical scenario of Juab county not having adequate funding to prosecute. This can happen. Again when the happens the state doesn't take responsibility for the crime. It just doesn't happen.

Vanilla dodged the question because even he knows it wouldn't happen.

The state doesn't take responsibility for a crime unless it realizes it was at fault. No prosecutor has lost or dropped a case against a criminal over a technicality or loophole or funding and the state come out and say well it was really our fault for the crime UNLESS THE STATE IS ACTUALLY AT FAULT. Period
 
Vanilla you still dodged the question I asked you. You know dam good and well if you tell the truth and answer the question it show you and the rest of these social justice warriors are engaged in nothing more than an internet lynching. Quite frankly it is disgusting that a person of your profession behaves that way. I can't put it any clearer.
 
Hunting dad4,

I am trying to get people to use logic. I am trying to get people to actually behave like gentlemen. Now you want to talk about civil courts. Fine, get you a lawyer and get after it. Start rolling around with the money grubbing litigators and come back and tell us how rich you got. This box you describe is not the box you claim everyone else is using. They are picking what facts they think they know in an effort to belittle and besmirch a businessman. Some have clearly stated they want to hurt his business. Quite frankly that is disgusting behavior. Something is fundamentally wrong with people who literally have not been damaged or lost a single scent because of Wade Lemon but feel compelled AND GAIN SATISFACTION if they think they can hurt him or his company and his employees. Those are families and jobs. And you and these others think your entertainment is more valuable than that. Shame on you.
 
So if I poach an animal and get caught I pay an extra fine for it if it is a trophy animal because I have caused damage to the taxpayers and hunters of the statree of utah.

The animal was poached. The state taking PARTIAL responsibility for that changes nothing. So damages were incurred by someone. So who pays?

The fact that the state takes PARTIAL responsibility for the dead ram doesnt change the fact that others at least share the responsibility. So who?

If you are stupid enough to believe that one of the foremost sheep guides in the state didnt KNOW that area was closed for the tag they had and he watched the ram all summer and filmed it but waited until the day before or of the season opener to call and clarify it, then that is on you.

If others are not that challenged then you really cant blame them.

People are looking at facts and basing their opinions on the available FACTS. That they dont have all the facts doesnt would ONLY matter in criminal court.

In the court of public opinion, which everyone is entitled to, the guide is wide open to whatever you or I or anyone else wants to say or feel.

Anyone who makes their money in the field of fish and wildlife HAS TO KNOW ALL OF THE LAWS. If you were an irresponsible taxidermist in the state of CA and had a high paying client that wanted a mountain lion (killed legally in another state) mounted but you knew you couldn't do it, but decide to call every fish and game office in the state until you found a fish bio to say well yeah I guess so you did it. Then you get caught but the state decided since the fish bio said it was ok not to charge you, did you still break the law?

Bill
 
An agent of the DWR made a mistake. The DWR could not say that he didn't. That still does not make what happened right.

To me it is just the fact that the guides are running that close to the edge of the law.

It was pretty apparent out on AI this year that someone flagrantly flouted the rules that resulted in temporary banners reminding everyone no off trail travel was permitted.
 
Tristate said:
I apologize and realize I wasn't clear in my answer. I was trying to answer Rutcrazes question as if he was asking it without the state already taking responsibility. I thought that was what he was asking.

If you want me to answer the question regarding can I say the state was solely at fault when they take responsibility? Yes. They are the governing body that makes all the rules, enforces the rules, and prosecutes the offenders. THEY HAVE ACCESS TO ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE. Not the internet gossip but the real evidence. And at the end of the day they say they are not prosecuting anyone and that the DWR IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. Yes I can put all responsibility on the state. They know the evidence they have the authority and they have decided to take the blame.

Let me also state that there isn't one shred or infantesimal iota of evidence that anyone within the dwr or county attorney's office is corrupt or has entered into a conspiracy with any of the involved parties . None. Zero. No one here has produced anything of the sort. If they have said evidence I suggest they turn it over to federal authorities.

As for your question as to whether the state did not have enough evidence to prosecute. That can happen but in those cases the state doesn't turn around and take responsibility for the crime.

As for your hypothetical scenario of Juab county not having adequate funding to prosecute. This can happen. Again when the happens the state doesn't take responsibility for the crime. It just doesn't happen.

Vanilla dodged the question because even he knows it wouldn't happen.

The state doesn't take responsibility for a crime unless it realizes it was at fault. No prosecutor has lost or dropped a case against a criminal over a technicality or loophole or funding and the state come out and say well it was really our fault for the crime UNLESS THE STATE IS ACTUALLY AT FAULT. Period
Click to expand...

There was evidence Epstien didn't kill himself. Oh wait it the video of the jail cell is now gone mysteriously. Hmm you trust the govt. and a dirty outfitter. Let alone the govt. who the outfitter helps do bear and cougar studies for, with a high dollar client who doesn't know what mountain they are on and doesn't know which North, South, East, and west is because the land isn't flat like texas. Which they could care less because they have crap ton of money and WLH will do whatever it takes to get it done. And then you trust small county court to pursue anything from a customer who brings revenue to the county Wade has lived in. You really are a whole new level of clueless. Tell me he doesn't know those people on a friend basis. And how the hell do you know what evidence their is and isn't you don't even live in Texas. You have nothing more than second hand gossip from the Waldrips. One of these WLH guys will get lead in their guts by the some guy that has waited a quarter century to hunt a buck, bull or ram. And they aren't gonna take being called a Little F##ker well. And then what their wife will tell their kids daddy won't make it home. He decided to do some illegal things on the mountain and a public hunter put a bullet in him. That should be worth it all for a fat check to go in WLH account. But hell with the widow and the kids, they were probably just knuckleheads applying for 25 dollar deer tags doing nothing for conservation . And for what so they can say they killed a sheep on a closed unit or a 210" buck and pound their chest to stamp a photo with a logo and smack their slongs up and down in the paunsagaunt sand. Follow the rules and you have nothing to worry about. Doyle sure gets bashed but guess what not one video. Not one in the day and age of tech. No the only stories I heard about Doyle on the pauns this year were good ones. Helped a MM'er kill a buck he was pumped for without a guide fee. Just being a good guy and helping someone out. And then killing the largest buck in the state while pairing up with NRO two groups of guys just wanting to help a guy kill a buck of 10 lifetimes. The only time doyle makes the news is when mossback knocks down something giant. WLH on the other hand it's screwing average joe's in pursuit of a giant. So there you have it where there is smoke there is fire.
 
Westerntines,

That was a special kind of crazy post there. That's almost as good as hossblurs crazy narrative. You have a government conspiracy, an assumption that people who hunt are willing to murder people who they think could mess up their hunt, and an awesome punch line at the end. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Wow. Devastating. You want a junior g-man badge for that?

What smoke? The bigfoot video? The video of two guys having a verbal altercation. The still picture of a bush??????

What you call smoke is nothing but internet garbage. The only smoke is the smoke that's getting blown up your shorts by the rest of these childish haters.
 
Tristate said:
Vanilla you still dodged the question I asked you. You know dam good and well if you tell the truth and answer the question it show you and the rest of these social justice warriors are engaged in nothing more than an internet lynching. Quite frankly it is disgusting that a person of your profession behaves that way. I can't put it any clearer.
Click to expand...
You may not have brought the rope but you rallied everyone to the tree. You see that right?
 
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