Warrior Heath Care. . .

T

TFinalshot

Guest
I'll bet a few of you guys have a good explanation for the health care of US wounded at Walter Reed and other locations around the nation.

I guess some of you were right Bush, he sticks to his guns. He still believes "major combat operations" are over.

This story as been around for at least a year and a half, but now the truth finally comes out.

What do you Bush supporters have to say about how the administration has handled health care for our returning wounded?

This really is Bush's issue; he could have done something about it but did NOT! Imus broke this story over a year ago and told the administration, but what happened - NOTHING!

Someone needs to wake them up.
 
I cant speak for what it is now at Walter Reed, but I cant see much change from 26 years ago, one of the biggest problems is that most of the medical staff through out the country is just in to do there time from the federal student loans contracts they used to get thru medical school. X much aid for X many years service. A lot of new doctors are there just to get real world experience before going out into private practise and pay off there debt to the government. As you know you can not sue the federal government for malpractice, and they get to learn or try new techniques.

Speaking for myself in 1981 I went thru the Hospital ship in the mediterranean, to Germany, then to Walter Reed, and finally ended up in Rehab at Mira Mar NAS.

I may be brainwashed, but I can walk and get around which is more than I thought I would be able too at the time. So I was happy with the service provided at the time and made it thru Desert Shield/Storm before finally having to retire.

The service I receive here in Utah is just about what I received when active, New Resident/Intern/Doctor every different visit when I wish I had the same person all the time so I would have better continuity of care.. but In my case I need a ENT and they are all over in Iraq or Afghanistan or at Walter Reed helping active duty soldiers coming back. That's where I believe they need to be so I hold no grudge about them being there And I will continue to be seen by a intern or resident from the U of U.

When you have a high turn over rate like in the military alot of things get overlooked or promises unfulfilled..

Nature of the beast I guess you could say.
 
T-final it doesnt surprise me one bit that the military health care system sucks, Ive known that for a fact since Clinton was pres. How refreshing, the blame game is. Perhaps this whole damn country is going straight to hell and we are all to blame, even you T-final.
ismith
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-07 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]Boy, there you have it, the ol "glass-is-half-full" attitude. Nice going, why not just give up. . . ?

So, why does it take a big scandal before something gets done that should be done anyhow? This administration must be more accountable - they still are in power, therefore it's NOT a blame game, it's asking for accountability NOW, TODAY, not in five years. . . Part of the war planning is to have a budget to help our men and women when they come home.

Treating wounded men and women this way is horrible, not matter what. I pointing out that this is a problem that CAN and should be fixed, moreover, it never should have happened, it's a symptom of a systemic, problem called the Bush administration. . . It sure quacks like a duck. . .

How about admiting there's a problem, then developing a plan to fix it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-07 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]T,
There is no defense of the substandard treatment our wounded has recieved however, I know you get a rise out of blaming Bush for everything this failure is not just GWB's but the entire generation of Politicians going back to at least the Nixon admimistration. GWB should be held accountable for allowing this to continue and I think that there is going to be hell to pay because it gives politically powerful weapon to the democrats, who will use it for their own political purposes.



Here is a long article about the problem:




'It Is Just Not Walter Reed'
Soldiers Share Troubling Stories Of Military Health Care Across U.S.

By Anne Hull and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, March 5, 2007; A01



Ray Oliva went into the spare bedroom in his home in Kelseyville, Calif., to wrestle with his feelings. He didn't know a single soldier at Walter Reed, but he felt he knew them all. He worried about the wounded who were entering the world of military health care, which he knew all too well. His own VA hospital in Livermore was a mess. The gown he wore was torn. The wheelchairs were old and broken.

"It is just not Walter Reed," Oliva slowly tapped out on his keyboard at 4:23 in the afternoon on Friday. "The VA hospitals are not good either except for the staff who work so hard. It brings tears to my eyes when I see my brothers and sisters having to deal with these conditions. I am 70 years old, some say older than dirt but when I am with my brothers and sisters we become one and are made whole again."

Oliva is but one quaking voice in a vast outpouring of accounts filled with emotion and anger about the mistreatment of wounded outpatients at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Stories of neglect and substandard care have flooded in from soldiers, their family members, veterans, doctors and nurses working inside the system. They describe depressing living conditions for outpatients at other military bases around the country, from Fort Lewis in Washington state to Fort Dix in New Jersey. They tell stories -- their own versions, not verified -- of callous responses to combat stress and a system ill equipped to handle another generation of psychologically scarred vets.

The official reaction to the revelations at Walter Reed has been swift, and it has exposed the potential political costs of ignoring Oliva's 24.3 million comrades -- America's veterans -- many of whom are among the last standing supporters of the Iraq war. In just two weeks, the Army secretary has been fired, a two-star general relieved of command and two special commissions appointed; congressional subcommittees are lining up for hearings, the first today at Walter Reed; and the president, in his weekly radio address, redoubled promises to do right by the all-volunteer force, 1.5 million of whom have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But much deeper has been the reaction outside Washington, including from many of the 600,000 new veterans who left the service after Iraq and Afghanistan. Wrenching questions have dominated blogs, talk shows, editorial cartoons, VFW spaghetti suppers and the solitary late nights of soldiers and former soldiers who fire off e-mails to reporters, members of Congress and the White House -- looking, finally, for attention and solutions.

Several forces converged to create this intense reaction. A new Democratic majority in Congress is willing to criticize the administration. Senior retired officers pounded the Pentagon with sharp questions about what was going on. Up to 40 percent of the troops fighting in Iraq are National Guard members and reservists -- "our neighbors," said Ron Glasser, a physician and author of a book about the wounded. "It all adds up and reaches a kind of tipping point," he said. On top of all that, America had believed the government's assurances that the wounded were being taken care of. "The country is embarrassed" to know otherwise, Glasser said.

The scandal has reverberated through generations of veterans. "It's been a potent reminder of past indignities and past traumas," said Thomas A. Mellman, a professor of psychiatry at Howard University who specializes in post-traumatic stress and has worked in Veterans Affairs hospitals. "The fact that it's been responded to so quickly has created mixed feelings -- gratification, but obvious regret and anger that such attention wasn't given before, especially for Vietnam veterans."

Across the country, some military quarters for wounded outpatients are in bad shape, according to interviews, Government Accountability Office reports and transcripts of congressional testimony. The mold, mice and rot of Walter Reed's Building 18 compose a familiar scenario for many soldiers back from Iraq or Afghanistan who were shipped to their home posts for treatment. Nearly 4,000 outpatients are currently in the military's Medical Holding or Medical Holdover companies, which oversee the wounded. Soldiers and veterans report bureaucratic disarray similar to Walter Reed's: indifferent, untrained staff; lost paperwork; medical appointments that drop from the computers; and long waits for consultations.

Sandy Karen was horrified when her 21-year-old son was discharged from the Naval Medical Center in San Diego a few months ago and told to report to the outpatient barracks, only to find the room swarming with fruit flies, trash overflowing and a syringe on the table. "The staff sergeant says, 'Here are your linens' to my son, who can't even stand up," said Karen, of Brookeville, Md. "This kid has an open wound, and I'm going to put him in a room with fruit flies?" She took her son to a hotel instead.

"My concern is for the others, who don't have a parent or someone to fight for them," Karen said. "These are just kids. Who would have ever looked in on my son?"

Capt. Leslie Haines was sent to Fort Knox in Kentucky for treatment in 2004 after being flown out of Iraq. "The living conditions were the worst I'd ever seen for soldiers," he said. "Paint peeling, mold, windows that didn't work. I went to the hospital chaplain to get them to issue blankets and linens. There were no nurses. You had wounded and injured leading the troops."

Hundreds of soldiers contacted The Washington Post through telephone calls and e-mails, many of them describing their bleak existence in Medhold.

From Fort Campbell in Kentucky: "There were yellow signs on the door stating our barracks had asbestos."

From Fort Bragg in North Carolina: "They are on my [expletive] like a diaper. . . . there are people getting chewed up everyday."

From Fort Dix in New Jersey: "Scare tactics are used against soldiers who will write sworn statement to assist fellow soldiers for their medical needs."

From Fort Irwin in California: "Most of us have had to sign waivers where we understand that the housing we were in failed to meet minimal government standards."

Soldiers back from Iraq worry that their psychological problems are only beginning to surface. "The hammer is just coming down, I can feel it," said retired Maj. Anthony DeStefano of New Jersey, describing his descent into post-traumatic stress and the Army's propensity to medicate rather than talk. When he returned home, Army doctors put him on the antipsychotic drug Seroquel. "That way, you can screw their lights out and they won't feel a thing," he said of patients like himself. "By the time they understand what is going on, they are through the Board and stuck with an unfavorable percentage of disability" benefits.

Nearly 64,000 of the more than 184,000 Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans who have sought VA health care have been diagnosed with potential symptoms of post-traumatic stress, drug abuse or other mental disorders as of the end of June, according to the latest report by the Veterans Health Administration. Of those, nearly 30,000 have possible post-traumatic stress disorder, the report said.

VA hospitals are also receiving a surge of new patients after more than five years of combat. At the sprawling James J. Peters VA Medical Center in the Bronx, N.Y., Spec. Roberto Reyes Jr. lies nearly immobile and unable to talk. Once a strapping member of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry, Reyes got too close to an improvised explosive device in Iraq and was sent to Walter Reed, where doctors did all they could before shipping him to the VA for the remainder of his life. A cloudy bag of urine hangs from his wheelchair. His mother and his aunt are constant bedside companions; Reyes, 25, likes for them to get two inches from his face, so he can pull on their noses with the few fingers he can still control.

Maria Mendez, his aunt, complained about the hospital staff. "They fight over who's going to have to give him a bath -- in front of him!" she said. Reyes suffered third-degree burns on his leg when a nurse left him in a shower unattended. He was unable to move himself away from the scalding water. His aunt found out only later, when she saw the burns.

Among the most aggrieved are veterans who have lived with the open secret of substandard, underfunded care in the 154 VA hospitals and hundreds of community health centers around the country. They vented their fury in thousands of e-mails and phone calls and in chat rooms.

"I have been trying to get someone, ANYBODY, to look into my allegations" at the Dayton VA, pleaded Darrell Hampton.

"I'm calling from Summerville, South Carolina, and I have a story to tell," began Horace Williams, 62. "I'm a Marine from the Vietnam era, and it took me 20 years to get the benefits I was entitled to."

The VA has a backlog of 400,000 benefit claims, including many concerning mental health. Vietnam vets whose post-traumatic stress has been triggered by images of war in Iraq are flooding the system for help and are being turned away.

For years, politicians have received letters from veterans complaining of bad care across the country. Last week, Walter Reed was besieged by members of Congress who toured the hospital and Building 18 to gain first-hand knowledge of the conditions. Many of them have been visiting patients in the hospital for years, but now they are issuing news releases decrying the mistreatment of the wounded.

Sgt. William A. Jones had recently written to his Arizona senators complaining about abuse at the VA hospital in Phoenix. He had written to the president before that. "Not one person has taken the time to respond in any manner," Jones said in an e-mail.

From Ray Oliva, the distraught 70-year-old vet from Kelseyville, Calif., came this: "I wrote a letter to Senators Feinstein and Boxer a few years ago asking why I had to wear Hospital gowns that had holes in them and torn and why some of the Vets had to ask for beds that had good mattress instead of broken and old. Wheel chairs old and tired and the list goes on and on. I never did get a response."

Oliva lives in a house on a tranquil lake. His hearing is shot from working on fighter jets on the flight line. "Gun plumbers," as they called themselves, didn't get earplugs in the late 1950s, when Oliva served with the Air Force. His hands had been burned from touching the skin of the aircraft. All is minor compared with what he later saw at the VA hospital where he received care.

"I sat with guys who'd served in 'Nam," Oliva said. "We had terrible problems with the VA. But we were all so powerless to do anything about them. Just like Walter Reed."

Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report
 
My dad was in the military for 30 years and I was in the Army so I know the military health care and hospitals are not the best. It has been this way for a long time. It is hard to keep good Doctors because they could make two to three times what they get paid from the military in the outside world.

I don't see how the place got so run down. That is not ok. It did not get that way overnight so thety need to check into that. I'm sure Bush was not in charge of monthly walk through inspections of the buildings so you can't put the blame right on him. I'm sure the chain of command has some explaining to do.

You could go to half the hospitals around the country and get substandard care. Most of those PTs only have colds and a little flu. Now go to Walter Reed hospital and they have probably seen thousands or tens of thousands of major trauma victims. They should get a little credit.

This story is just like the rest of the war. 90% of the coverage is about the bad stuff that happens and ignore everything good that goes on. How many soldiers have they saved or helped out during this war? Why don't we hear about the success stories? Because they would not make Bush look bad.
 
"Why don't we hear about the success stories?" Mybe because you dont listen?

Have you been watching TV over the past 4 years??????? I've seen a half-dozen specials on the good work they do, and if you've been paying ANY attention to this issue, the media is pointing out that there's a lot of good being done at WR. How may specials have been made about wounded men and women at WR, I'll bet at least a dozen. .
 
TFinalshot,
As NeMont pointed out, this is NOT a new problem. Myself, I am 20% disabled and after ETSing from active duty had a tough time joining and staying in the national guard I had a very painful foot injury that was made worse by army "physicans assistants" that had a miricle drug called "motrin" aka "ranger candy". Yeah take 1000mg of motrin and youll be fine. Took a year and a half to get me to a civilian pediatrist. Luckly he gave a rats ass about his job and knew what the hell dislocated bones looked like. Too bad the damage of 6 months of running on it and a year of limping around like a frikin zombie was already done. So instead of completely recovering, I will always have some foot pain.
As to the degree of planning for this war, I think you probally know damn well that nobody was planning on it dragging out this long with this many casulties. Big mistake on the governments part. Just like the bleeding south border and a various other problems facing this country. So yeah, Im a bit pesimistic about the direction this country is headed. I am disheartened and sickened by the anti-war movement and the mexican flag waving pro-mass-immigration movement. Yeah we already know everything is Bush's fault.
ismith

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
"As to the degree of planning for this war, I think you probally know damn well that nobody was planning on it dragging out this long with this many casulties."

You cant be serious about that statement. I think there were plenty of people who warrned of a long war, and even said send in 300,000 troops and plan for a long bloody war. I also dont think it's right to just say, oh-well, we did not think it would get this bad.

Weak my friend, that's just not acceptable. WE all MUST hold our government to a much higher standard than that.

I believed early on, after watching the former USSR get their's handed to them, that any war over there will be long, hard and costly, aftera all, it is tribal, and I happen to know a little about that.

I thought that we were making a big mistake thinking that we could go over there with minimal force and be back home with little to no loss. Just never in my mind thought it would be easy.

So, even if the administration did not plan for it, it has had plenty of time to ramp it up. Dont you think the administration has had enough time to figure it out by now?
 
If you want a good example of the way veterans are treated here is a good case in point..

2 years ago the Utah state legislature decided to fund there part of a veterans nursing home to be built here in Ogden Utah. The state said that when The federal government sent in there $20 million it would be built. well we are still waiting for the federal money to come in. Utah just had a $2 billion surplus this year, I spent 3 days down in SLC the last 2 weeks with the VFW and DAV trying to get the legislature to front the money till the federal Government sent there part... The answer was a resounding "NO".. the state doesn't trust the federal government to pay up...

But, they did see fit to fork over $20 million to keep a soccer team in Utah and build them a stadium at taxpayer expense, while the only nursing home in Utah is a 80 bed facility with a 1 1/2 year waiting list to get in and we have over 200,000 veterans in the state. Our veterans are dieing waiting to get in.

So I'm pretty well pissed at the State of Utah.

Soccer is more important than our Veterans in Utah and don't think I will not remember this come election time.
 
I think that's a great example of what's gone on in this country. The NATION is NOT at war Bush is at war, otherwise we, as states and citizens would be more engaged. I also dont think this example, the one chawk posted, is partisan, it is what it is, and I'll bet it would be the same outcome no matter what state it was in. . .
 
"You cant be serious about that statement"
No Im damn serious about that statement! This war had overwelming support in the beginning, so why are all the liberals thumping their chests, saying "I told you this was a bad idea bubba, wink, wink". Give me a frikin break! Your right about the majority of Americans not being part of this war, your dead wrong that this is only Bush's war.
ismith

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
If I knew for sure Id be a millionare! Id say somewhere in Pakistan. Although Id like to see him dead as much as anyone out there, I question the sanity of considering the war won or lost in regards to whether or not OBL is breathing.
ismith

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
I think the subject of how our Vets are treated can not be talked about enough. This has been going on since the Vietnam era. It was like this in the 80s, 90s, and it is still like this. I think it is great that there is a big shake up to get this fixed now.
My question is where the heck were all of these politicians that are up in arms now been for the last 30 years! I can tell you where some of them have been.
Federal Bldg. 3rd st. January 1991 Seattle, Wa, Bagdad Jim McDermott protesting the Iraq war along with 120 other Anarchist nut jobs bussed in from Oregon, blocking the doors of the federal Bldg keeping the Vets from getting their benefits. One of the protesters pulled the flag down and turned it upside down and ran it back up the flag pole. It took a squad of Lite Infantry guys from fort Lewis and a few of us vets to clear a path to the door so the disabled vets could get to their benefits. Whole time this is going on Bagdad Jim just keeps on talking. I helped an (Vietnam era amputee on crutches) make his way to the door, half way there he notices the flag. He turns and forces his way through the crowd to the flag pole where he proceeds to bring the flag down and turn it right side up then run it back up. two Light Infantry guys positioned them selves under the flag to keep the scumbags away. You should have seen how quiet it got when those protesters realized all they were doing was keeping vets from their benefits. They quietly moved off down the street.

The way I see it, is even though these politicals are screaming and having hearings today because they can get a few miles out of this for their own agenda. If that makes the situation get fixed or at least get better I am all for it.
Bush did not create this problem with the VA, but neither did it get fixed under his watch. Put the blame where it is do. Not just the Democrats and not just the Republicans, both are just as guilty.
The problem is with all of us for letting this go on for so many years

There are only two types of people - The Hunters and the hunted,
I hunt.
Alchase
 
Well said Alchase.
ismith

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
I wondered how quickly this would get blamed on Clinton, it sure didn't take long. If the election had gone the other way that piece of human waste Rummy would still be in office.

This story would have never made it to the press, which is evidenced by the fact that nobody in power prior to the elections addressed this problem when Imus broke the story. Remember, Rummy wanted to do this on the cheap. Screw Zinni, Shinseki, and Powell what do those clowns know.

I remember when Reagan cut the V.A. budget and soon the homeless populations in major cities grew with Viet Nam vets. I still remember guys holding up signs at street corners looking for handouts "Please Help Viet Nam Vet."

So, it's cool that we lost $10,000,000,000.00 of which we have no accounting for. Black Ops money is almost impossible to trace but we know that we are now supporting Sunni factions in Lebannon to against Hezballah. Congress hasn't approved funds for this support, I wonder where they got the money?

Funny, there was no request or monies rubber stamped to reinvest into the VA system. Yet Bush supporters, who claim to be conservatives seem to be okay with all of this.

The V.A. system has always been a shambles, a place to conveniently cut budgets. Why? Simple, the majority of the military has become an avenue for poverty stricken americans.

We have a meat puppet for a president, a leader of the private Military Industrial Complex as a Vice President, and an air force general as the head of the CIA. Does it really come to any surprise that we find ourselves in this chaos as individuals or a nation?

If you really want an eye-opener go to your local VA and simply ask the young and old vets what they think of the treatment they receive and VA budget cuts.

We handed out Visa cards to Katrina Victims without hesitation. But if you apply for Disability as a Iraq veteran, first you must bring in a picture or some proof you served in Iraq. Then there can be determining factors like how you scored on your SAT. So if you receive a brain injury from a IED, but you scored low on your SAT, you only receive 50%. Amazing....
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-07 AT 03:54PM (MST)[p]Find somewhere that placed all the blame for this mess on Clinton.

You may believe only GWB is responsible for this and that is certainly a view held by many. However if you believe in anything approaching fairness then you need to do a little learning.

Start with actual documents and expand to what really happened.

http://veterans.house.gov/news/106/3-26-99.htm



NO ADMINISTRATION or CONGRESS has done enough. Doesn't matter if there was a (D) or and (R) after their names. It is a disgrace that nobody has dealth with. Period.

Bush's Administration is going to be blamed for it and that is the way it should be but don't pretend that the VA health care system has not been underfunded for years and years even under your hero WJC. The chickens have finally come home to roost and now we have to deal with how we are treating our wounded soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors.

Nemont
 
Forthewall,
Who was blaming anything on Clinton? If your refering to my mention of Clinton your taking it out of context. You could pass the blame all the way down the line. Nobody has done squat about the VA for many years.
ismith

"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous
 
Nemont I'm sorry you insist on placing words into posts that do not exist. It only took 2 posts before Clinton's name was raised.

Forget the fact that I never blamed GWB. Forget the fact that I mentioned that short changing the VA and our vets is nothing new.

Just keep inserting words into other people's posts then accuse them of bias. If you do a little research of your own, you will see many ADMINISTRATIONS AND CONGRESS have provided ample support and funding for our Vets and VHA.

March 5, 2007

Akaka Fears Budget Fails Veterans' Funding Needs
Washington, D.C. -- Today Senator Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI), joined by Senator Patty Murray (D-WA), offered a measure to add $1.5 billion for Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Health Care. The amendment failed by a vote of 46 to 54.

Before the vote was cast, Senator Akaka told his colleagues the current Budget resolution does not go far enough to meet the needs for our nation's growing veteran population.

"What is again missing -- in dollars and in deed -- is that this Administration still does not count caring for veterans as part of the cost of war. Defense spending for our service members while in combat has necessarily gone up. Accordingly, so must our commitment to caring for veterans once they return home," stated Senator Akaka.

"We are all too familiar with the scenario last year. VA wildly underestimated the number of younger vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. And this year, the Administration thinks even fewer vets will come for care. This is a terrific gamble, as this miscalculation was one of the primary causes of last year's shortfall.

"The Administration's approach -- and the resolution before us -- asks veterans to pay more for their care through increased copayments for medications and a new user fee for middle-income veterans. Our approach, instead, asks for appropriated dollars."

Senator Akaka is the Ranking Member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee.



As for the Clinton Hero rhetoric, I'll be happy to say in front of any crowd, anywhere, that I voted for him twice. Just like I voted for Bush Sr. and Reagan twice.

As for our current Supreme Leader, well, I didn't like him as a Governor and I wish he wasn't President. Too bad Jeb was to smart to become Cheney's meat puppet. I would have voted for Jeb if he had run without Cheney on the ticket.

I jsut wonder how many Bush suporters will proudly state they voted for him TWICE at anyplace, anywhere.
 
Ismith,

If I have taken your post out of context...I apologize. It appears we are of a shared opinion of VHA funding and veteran services in general. Even today the senate shot down $1.5 billion, why do you think that is Ismith?
 
"I wondered how quickly this would get blamed on Clinton"
I do believe those are your words Forthewall. I still dont see where anyone has blamed Clinton.
ismith
 
Forthewall,
Do you believe that the VA's problems with caring for vets started with GWB's administration?

I don't like many, many things about Bush, I could make a list too long to read. I however believe in fairness and he has been blamed just because people hate him.

This crisis of adequate facilities did not happen overnight nor was it attended too in a timely fashion. Short changing our veterans should be unacceptable but it has happened regardless who sits in the White House.

It will be intersting to see what the new congress does with this.

Nemont
 
>Even today the senate shot
>down $1.5 billion, why do
>you think that is Ismith?
>

Because they hate America and want to see the effort in Iraq become even more mired and embarrassing than it already is.
 
Money makes an interesting observation I wonder if he might want to tell all of us his definition of "america" and why it is that the senate of the united states of american hates itself. . .
 

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