I completely agree. It’d be interesting to see what formula they’re using to come up with their numbers.
When Dax made the comment about how they see deer in one area one year and that they move somewhere else the next winter, I blurted out something. Deer don’t live like that.
Does anyone,
@slamdunk actually know how they do their counting and come up with the numbers?
I get the feeling that some of the board members don’t trust the numbers that the DWR reports, and probably question much more. I know if I were on the board I’d be questioning the count methods and the accuracy they report.
Sign me up for a ride-along when they do these counts!!
Based on conversations I’ve had with various local biologists from South Central Utah, starting back in the 1980s, through 2012, if a unit biologist goes out in November to do the annual fall mule deer count and he comes back with less total deer counted than previous years, because he can’t locate them in the traditional locations, and he turns in the count, his State supervisor sends his report back and tells him to do redo the count. Then…….. if he does the count and he still can’t find enough deer to meet the “an adequate statistical sample sized number” for the unit, he is told, by the Supervisor, keep looking…… “until you get enough counted”. Then submit the count.
(Not a lot different than what Corey was saying when he said, if they aren’t on one side of mountain, go check the other side. Surprise, surprise, as Founder said in Post #59.
“Deer don’t live like that.”
Mule deer live in family units. They only know about areas their parents and grandparents know about. Deer don’t talk to each other about some green pasture they can go to. Look at the Wyoming mule deer migration maps, collared deer move back and forth from winter to summer range for 5-6 years in a row, following the exact same path and going back to the same places every years, they don’t wander around exploring and relocation like other species do.
If mule are gone from their traditional area, they don’t exist anymore, they haven’t moved to the other side of the unit. Yet…… this DWR is telling you they base their recommendations on good science.
You decide……. based on this nonsense.
I was told of one, for sure, and possibly two biologists, that left the DWR over these count conflicts.
When I heard Corey say, (not perfectly quoting here) our mule deer units are currently at or near herd objectives and unit carrying capacity, I nearly puked. Then I heard him go on and on about how hard the DWR is working to increase mule deer populations across the State my head nearly exploded.
I also heard him say something to the effect that unit and State deer population estimates are based on hunter success. It really set me off again. If we are killing 20,000 to 25,000 bucks a year when populations are from 280,000 up to 380,000…….. I’d love to hear him say what the deer population was in 1983 and 1984 when the buck harvest was over 82,000 and nearly 70,000.
You younger folks that can do a simple math ratio and can figure it out easy enough……… but why should it matter now anyway?
It should matter because if Corey and the DWR believe we are at or near carrying capacity now, at 380,000 or less, how in hell did these unit carry two to three times as many deer in the 1980s and before and they can only carry 380,000 now…… after all the millions upon millions of dollars have been invested in habitat restoration, road crossing improvements, predator reduction programs, (like the sheep man on the Board, spoke about in this small unit area, over 4,500 killed in 4 years I think he said) and millions spent on mule deer science research…….. after all that and we still only kill 25,000 bucks a year, as compared to the bucks killed prior to these “efforts” when we where killing 50,000 to 70,000 buck a year, for decades, oh and yes, through drought years and extremely harsh winter years as well.
How in hell can Corey say we are at or near carrying capacity now.
And……. don’t tell me about all the development in the State and double the population……. The Wasatch Front takes up less than 20% of the States geography. So pull that 20% off the numbers and your still hundreds of thousand of mule deer short now.
If we are at or near carrying capacity now…… then the DWR has redefined “carry capacity” from how I was defined prior to the 1990’s.
If you young guys are willing to swallow and accept this BS as valid and real, you deserve what you’re getting.
