WE GONNA LET THIS SSHITT KEEP HAPPENING???

How is this allowed? There really shouldn’t be much hesitation to take this thing out, if they are sure of what it is. Debatably, even if they didn’t know what it is…

The article stated this has happened in the past as well. Has the US always allowed this sort of surveillance, and I just didn’t know? Or are they starting to let things like this slide now?
 
Just heard a report saying the Chinese claim it’s a weather balloon that drifted off course, and they apologize for the intrusion… that’s pretty dang far off course! That sounds about as legitimate as “the dog ate my homework”.
 
The balloon at that altitude isn't providing anything that a satellite wouldn't provide. They are simply gauging our response - similar to their activities near Taiwan. Imo, we failed by not detecting it sooner and taking action.
 
The balloon at that altitude isn't providing anything that a satellite wouldn't provide. They are simply gauging our response - similar to their activities near Taiwan. Imo, we failed by not detecting it sooner and taking action.
Supposedly we have been aware since it was in the Aleutian Islands a few days ago.
 
I agree anything it gathers is probably already available from satellites. This just feel a little closer to being an intrusion, in our airspace. Doesn’t seem right.

I have absolutely no background or experience with this sort of thing, but it seems like something we shouldn’t allow.
 
balloon.jpg
Nothing to worry about. Just an early Valentine greeting....
 
The balloon at that altitude isn't providing anything that a satellite wouldn't provide. They are simply gauging our response - similar to their activities near Taiwan. Imo, we failed by not detecting it sooner and taking action.
We knew about it long before it was made public. Nobody here knows when it was first detected. Like you mentioned, it's at an altitude that doesn't even affect airlines... over 80,000 feet. If they want to take pictures from that elevation, they'd use high-tech satellite equipment, not a balloon floating along the jet stream.

The Defense Department also says this isn't the first balloon we've tracked over our airspace.
 
Just imagine if YOU had done this and it flew over the White House.
Go get a really big balloon and let it go in the Midwest and it just may float over the White House, or anywhere else on the east coast.

They'll do nothing about it, it's literally flying higher than our U2 Spy Planes can fly.

People let weather balloons go all the time, some of them invariably cross over Washington DC.

Remember the Red Bull jump? It was from 128,000'. It had a view of sensitive military sites... and nothing happened. We don't shoot down balloons, they're common and are used for legitimate purposes all the time. The spying we need to worry about is the stuff we CAN'T see.

red-bull-stratos-balloon.jpeg.jpg
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Actually, I was thinking of releasing say 1000 balloons. Pretty sure I'll get in trouble for it. There has to be rules/laws on this. Don't have time to look this up but that chit has to come down sometime.
 
How is this allowed? There really shouldn’t be much hesitation to take this thing out, if they are sure of what it is.
I'd love to hear your plan on how to do that.

It's higher than we can fly... even a U2 Spy Plane. So what's your plan? Launch a Surface-to-Air missile at it while it's over the Dakota's and try and pop it?

Maybe try and hit it with an ICBM that we then direct over Canadian airspace to the Artic Ocean and detonate it over water?

Sounds like a good plan.
 
What you sayin Grizz? You chinese?
Haha, nope, just somebody that can think beyond the fear-mongering and consider real world implications and applications.

What does this really mean? And what's a reasonable response?

Say it is a weather balloon... What would we expect of China when they launched it? To have a small C4 charge so they can blow it up if it gets caught in a jet stream? That's ridiculous.

It can't see anything a satellite can't see. It's not like we have our military secrets sitting out on a runway for Chinese satellites so why would they be visible to a low-tech balloon. China can't even retrieve the balloon to gather sensitive info, they can only get the info it broadcasts. This broadcast would have to go to, wait for it, satellites with line-of-sight. So we're acknowledging the satellites are already up there.

It makes no sense that this is anything nefarious. Plus, China would know we'd be watching it the whole time. The people screaming about it just aren't thinking things through, they're reacting to stuff they heard on their favorite podcast or "news" page, but aren't backing up and really considering all the info.
 
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Go get a really big balloon and let it go in the Midwest and it just may float over the White House, or anywhere else on the east coast.

They'll do nothing about it, it's literally flying higher than our U2 Spy Planes can fly.

People let weather balloons go all the time, some of them invariably cross over Washington DC.

Remember the Red Bull jump? It was from 128,000'. It had a view of sensitive military sites... and nothing happened. We don't shoot down balloons, they're common and are used for legitimate purposes all the time. The spying we need to worry about is the stuff we CAN'T see.

View attachment 101959View attachment 101960
Bull!!

There isn't a balloon ever released that doesn't turn up stuck in a tree during elk hunt?
 
I'd love to hear your plan on how to do that.

It's higher than we can fly... even a U2 Spy Plane. So what's your plan? Launch a Surface-to-Air missile at it while it's over the Dakota's and try and pop it?

Maybe try and hit it with an ICBM that we then direct over Canadian airspace to the Artic Ocean and detonate it over water?

Sounds like a good plan.
Creedmoor. Easy peasy.

Reminds me of the classic, Lawnchair Larry.

 
Actually, I was thinking of releasing say 1000 balloons. Pretty sure I'll get in trouble for it. There has to be rules/laws on this. Don't have time to look this up but that chit has to come down sometime.
Here you go... These can go to 125,000 feet and are 43 feet across. Buy online.

 
I'd love to hear your plan on how to do that.

It's higher than we can fly... even a U2 Spy Plane. So what's your plan? Launch a Surface-to-Air missile at it while it's over the Dakota's and try and pop it?

Maybe try and hit it with an ICBM that we then direct over Canadian airspace to the Artic Ocean and detonate it over water?

Sounds like a good plan.
Not sure what this means but looks like our government can do something about this.

"Instances of this kind of balloon activity have been observed previously over the past several years. Once the balloon was detected, the U.S. government acted immediately to protect against the collection of sensitive information."

Just maybe our DOD has some ideas about how to take this down. Then again you might be smarter than DOD?
 
Well, I'm no balloon expert, but the Pentagon is saying it was launched and flown over us intentionally.

Seems we are constantly getting probed by China, don't think this would be surprising or different.

I'm saving ammo for drone delivery. Don't care about balloons
 
Haha, nope, just somebody that can think beyond the fear-mongering and consider real world implications and applications.

What does this really mean? And what's a reasonable response?

Say it is a weather balloon... What would we expect of China when they launched it? To have a small C4 charge so they can blow it up if it gets caught in a jet stream? That's ridiculous.

It can't see anything a satellite can't see. It's not like we have our military secrets sitting out on a runway for Chinese satellites so why would they be visible to a low-tech balloon. China can't even retrieve the balloon to gather sensitive info, they can only get the info it broadcasts. This broadcast would have to go to, wait for it, satellites with line-of-sight. So we're acknowledging the satellites are already up there.

It makes no sense that this is anything nefarious. Plus, China would know we'd be watching it the whole time. The people screaming about it just aren't thinking things through, they're reacting to stuff they heard on their favorite podcast or "news" page, but aren't backing up and really considering all the info.
I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic in some of your responses.

There are many things that a satellite can't capture that a balloon, or more widely used drone, can capture. It's the reason why we use drones for surveillance even though we have satellites as well. Drones and balloons can stay over an area longer to get a better idea of patterning. Do yourself a favor and look up "unblinking eye" and what that has to do with surveillance of an adversary. I believe it was coined during either Afghanistan or Iraq wars.

China doesn't need to gather the balloon to retrieve the sensitive material it was gathering. More than likely that info was gathered in real time via satellite....balloon sends it to satellite, satellite to the homeland. I would imagine we are most likely able to intercept these though.

As far as your statement about satellites being able to see the same thing as the balloon, not true. Atmospheric conditions, weather, etc can allow a balloon or drone to capture things a satellite might not be able to because of conditions.

Do you have any info to back up your statements about it not being something nefarious going on? I didn't think so, you only know what the rest of us know.
 
I'd love to hear your plan on how to do that.

It's higher than we can fly... even a U2 Spy Plane. So what's your plan? Launch a Surface-to-Air missile at it while it's over the Dakota's and try and pop it?

Maybe try and hit it with an ICBM that we then direct over Canadian airspace to the Artic Ocean and detonate it over water?

Sounds like a good plan.
I would not pretend to know the best way to address it, but I’m sure there are plenty of people who could come up with a good plan. You know, someone who might be some expert in the field?

I wonder, if this has no steering capabilities, how long does something like this reliably fly? Is it coming down eventually, where ever it happens to drift?

Is it higher than we can fly? You reference the U2, which does cruise at 70k, but is this really our ceiling? Is cruising elevation the same as actual capabilities? Just curious
 
I'd love to hear your plan on how to do that.

It's higher than we can fly... even a U2 Spy Plane. So what's your plan? Launch a Surface-to-Air missile at it while it's over the Dakota's and try and pop it?

Maybe try and hit it with an ICBM that we then direct over Canadian airspace to the Artic Ocean and detonate it over water?

Sounds like a good plan.
What year are you living in? Do you really think we don't have the tools to take down a balloon and drop it in an 25sq mile unpopulated area if we wanted to?
 
I would not pretend to know the best way to address it, but I’m sure there are plenty of people who could come up with a good plan. You know, someone who might be some expert in the field?

I wonder, if this has no steering capabilities, how long does something like this reliably fly? Is it coming down eventually, where ever it happens to drift?

Is it higher than we can fly? You reference the U2, which does cruise at 70k, but is this really our ceiling? Is cruising elevation the same as actual capabilities? Just curious
Why does it matter how high we can fly? So we can go up and inspect it? We can get a very detailed picture from right here on the ground.
 
I agree anything it gathers is probably already available from satellites. This just feel a little closer to being an intrusion, in our airspace. Doesn’t seem right.

I have absolutely no background or experience with this sort of thing, but it seems like something we shouldn’t allow.
Correct Mr Wbrim!

That and the fact that so many are on tictoc and the info is tracked by the Chinese.

Seems they'll do anything to get the upper hand.....while we rot from the inside and become a hollow shell of what we once were.

Our ultimate undoing will be from within. Just look at Washington and y'all get back with me if you disagree.

Zeke
 
Correct Mr Wbrim!

That and the fact that so many are on tictoc and the info is tracked by the Chinese.

Seems they'll do anything to get the upper hand.....while we rot from the inside and become a hollow shell of what we once were.

Our ultimate undoing will be from within. Just look at Washington and y'all get back with me if you disagree.

Zeke
100% agree Zeke
 
Well, I'm no balloon expert, but the Pentagon is saying it was launched and flown over us intentionally.

Seems we are constantly getting probed by China, don't think this would be surprising or different.

I'm saving ammo for drone delivery. Don't care about balloons
If “Probing Montana” isn’t a rock band name, it needs to be. Or the next Borat movie.
 
Just maybe our DOD has some ideas about how to take this down. Then again you might be smarter than DOD?
You're referring to the same people that decided to not do anything about it.

Maybe the DOD is smarter than the people telling you it's a super secret spy balloon and that we need to shoot it down and that it somehow is evidence of a weak United States?

You can just go ahead and keep criticizing the people like myself that take the same position as our military while pretending that you're smarter than the military while also touting the abilities and intelligence of the very military that decided the balloon isn't a threat and doesn't need to be destroyed, even though you're convinced it does ?
 
I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic in some of your responses.

There are many things that a satellite can't capture that a balloon, or more widely used drone, can capture. It's the reason why we use drones for surveillance even though we have satellites as well. Drones and balloons can stay over an area longer to get a better idea of patterning. Do yourself a favor and look up "unblinking eye" and what that has to do with surveillance of an adversary. I believe it was coined during either Afghanistan or Iraq wars.

China doesn't need to gather the balloon to retrieve the sensitive material it was gathering. More than likely that info was gathered in real time via satellite....balloon sends it to satellite, satellite to the homeland. I would imagine we are most likely able to intercept these though.

As far as your statement about satellites being able to see the same thing as the balloon, not true. Atmospheric conditions, weather, etc can allow a balloon or drone to capture things a satellite might not be able to because of conditions.

Do you have any info to back up your statements about it not being something nefarious going on? I didn't think so, you only know what the rest of us know.
Government regulations say that private satellites can only release images with resolution of 25cm. Clearly they have capabilities exceeding that since the regulation exists, and we can only guess how good our spy satellites are, but Trump tweeted a classified image of at least 10cm a few years ago. Certainly even commercial-grade satellite imagery would provide China with the info it needs about our operations. They don't need to read the newspaper on our front porch to find our bombers sitting on runways. We certainly operate at all times as if spy satellites are watching us, because they likely are.

I also clearly stated information could be transferred from the balloon, via satellite, to China. Don't know why you felt the need to reiterate that at length.

I love your condescending last paragraph stating I don't have information the balloon isn't nefarious as if you have information that it is. ?

I take the same position as the military that actually does have all the information and solutions available... and I'm the one that is out of line? The conspiratorialists are always on a hair-trigger nowadays!

The same military that executed a botched withdrawal from Afghanistan and left $100’s of Millions in weapons and cash for our enemies? That military braintrust? ?

You clearly know more than DoD so you might want to reach out to them and explain why their decision to leave the balloon alone is incorrect. I recommend you try busting through a gate to get into the Pentagon... or maybe float over the fence in a balloon ?
 
You're referring to the same people that decided to not do anything about it.

Maybe the DOD is smarter than the people telling you it's a super secret spy balloon and that we need to shoot it down and that it somehow is evidence of a weak United States?

You can just go ahead and keep criticizing the people like myself that take the same position as our military while pretending that you're smarter than the military while also touting the abilities and intelligence of the very military that decided the balloon isn't a threat and doesn't need to be destroyed, even though you're convinced it does ?
Uh.....the Military doesn't get to make the decision....The CIC does....
 
Uh.....the Military doesn't get to make the decision....The CIC does....
We really should come up with a panel of six to eight military leaders to compile intelligence and contingency plans that reports directly to, and advises, the President. They would then be responsible for the military response and to follow his orders.

Let's call it ? The Joint Chiefs of Staff

___________


EDIT: I just found out it already exists, I even had the name correct.

Of course, somebody here is going to say that the President is going against the Joint Chiefs even though a nonmilitary response has been the case for all past balloons that have entered our airspace; which would've been declared by the far right to be spy balloons that were a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States.... had the evil media only told us about them.

But that person probably thinks Trump is still President and is running a shadow presidency behind the scenes and secretly has control of the military and will soon be "reinstated" as President. So there is that ?

(Not to mention the fact that if a past balloon was destroyed by our military, and we decided not to do so this time, it only strengthens the argument that this balloon isn't actually nefarious. We've either destroyed past balloons and decided not to do so this time, or we've never destroyed them because they're not truly a threat... or because we don't have a viable option to do so.)
 
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We really should come up with a panel of six to eight military leaders to compile intelligence and contingency plans that reports directly to, and advises, the President.

Let's call it ? The Joint Chiefs of Staff
AND....the bought and payed for CIC still gets to say no....
 
We really should come up with a panel of 6-8 military leaders to compile intelligence and contingency plans that report directly to, and advise, the President.

Let's call it ? The Joint Chiefs of Staff
Well, flip the scenario. If the US started flying balloons over China, I wonder what their reaction would be.

Sometimes- it's more about the message than the actual threat. And that's where leadership (anyone know who that is??) comes in.
 
I have no idea if it needs to be shot down......BUT....if it does need to be shot down and we can't do it over MT or KS without fear of hitting someone on the ground.....we can't shoot anything down anywhere is the continental US.....
 
Well, flip the scenario. If the US started flying balloons over China, I wonder what their reaction would be.

Sometimes- it's more about the message than the actual threat. And that's where leadership (anyone know who that is??) comes in.
I'm confident we know much about what is going on in China, probably far better than a camera dangling under a balloon. I bet we even have people on the inside. I'm sure we have very sophisticated intel on them and they assume that to be so. They're probably even providing counterintelligence with that in mind.

Like I said above, the spying we need to worry about is the stuff we CAN'T see.
 
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I have no idea if it needs to be shot down......BUT....if it does need to be shot down and we can't do it over MT or KS without fear of hitting someone on the ground.....we can't shoot anything down anywhere is the continental US.....
It was in Alaska first, seems like as good as place as any.
 
I'm confident we know much about what is going on in China, I bet we even have people on the inside. I'm sure we have very sophisticated intel on them.
I agree. The point is more about how the president makes decisions. Yes, he has the Joint Chiefs, CIA, FBI, CDC and I'm sure a diversity and inclusion council. But the president gets advice from them, not direction. It sends a message to both your citizens and other countries when you decide to let them fly observation equipment over your country, right?

I understood his reasoning was "It might drop on somebody in Montana". JSMN! Lamest rationale ever. He CLEARLY doesn't know anything about the likelihood of hitting ANYTHING in Montana. Leadership is really, really helpful in circumstances like this.
 
But the president gets advice from them, not direction.
... and he heeded their advice.

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There are people here acting like I'm speaking out of turn and without all the info when I'm simply deferring to the military... erstwhile, they're the ones second-guessing the military WITHOUT ALL THE INFO ?

PS. If the military said to shoot it down and Biden did, I'd support it because he was following the advice of his military advisors.
 
... and he heeded their advice.

View attachment 102003

There are people here acting like I'm speaking out of turn and without all the info when I'm simply deferring to the military... erstwhile, they're the ones second-guessing the military WITHOUT ALL THE INFO ?

PS. If the military said to shoot it down and Biden did, I'd support it because he was following the advice of his military advisors.

He was probably counting the 50% women of the women on his staff and had zero clue what recommendations were coming his way.
 
... and he heeded their advice.

View attachment 102003

There are people here acting like I'm speaking out of turn and without all the info when I'm simply deferring to the military... erstwhile, they're the ones second-guessing the military WITHOUT ALL THE INFO ?

PS. If the military said to shoot it down and Biden did, I'd support it because he was following the advice of his military advisors.
Grizz- think about what a leader does.

Joint Chiefs: "The threat of this balloon is minimal, and there is a 1/100,000 chance it lands on a sheep".

President: "But what message does it send to China, and our people when we allow this?"

Joint Chiefs: "That's not our job, ask the Diversity and Inclusion council."

President: "They are out making posters right now. I have no choice but to go with your recommendation!"
 
Testing Us!

Oh It's Just A Weather Balloon!

Most Americans SUCK It In!

Next Time They Show Up Nobody Pays Any Attention To Them!

We Get Our Asses Kick Because:

Oh It's Just Another Weather Balloon!

I've Never Known A Weather Balloon To Have a Satellite Mounted To it Facing Straight Down!
 
We can fly spacecraft to the moon but can't figure out how and when to shoot down this where it can fall to earth in a good place ?
 
See post 67. It appears we may have put it down.
The video was from Montana but last I heard the balloon is over Missouri?

The gov't has confirmed a second balloon in South America though.

Anyone heard of that supposed 2nd balloon in Canada? Was that ever confirmed?
 
Balloons are cheap....if I were China and had paid millions to the Biden crime family.....I would be releasing one every 10 minutes....
 
... and he heeded their advice.

View attachment 102003

There are people here acting like I'm speaking out of turn and without all the info when I'm simply deferring to the military... erstwhile, they're the ones second-guessing the military WITHOUT ALL THE INFO ?

PS. If the military said to shoot it down and Biden did, I'd support it because he was following the advice of his military advisors.
You are quoting from the biggest lying sack of shiz next to Brandon.?
Man you would be barn full of laughs around a campfire.?
 
Grizz- think about what a leader does.

Joint Chiefs: "The threat of this balloon is minimal, and there is a 1/100,000 chance it lands on a sheep".

President: "But what message does it send to China, and our people when we allow this?"

Joint Chiefs: "That's not our job, ask the Diversity and Inclusion council."

President: "They are out making posters right now. I have no choice but to go with your recommendation!"
It seems you want a military response and you consider that a sign of leadership.

I recommend you read Peacemaker as you may gain respect for how President Reagan faced constant provocation from the Soviets and how his restrained response saved us from World War III and a potential nuclear catastrophe.

It doesn't take Small Man Syndrome to be a leader, it takes much more than that. Roosevelt famously said, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Shooting down a balloon because you think it would send a message of strength doesn't exemplify that doctrine.
 
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Guys calm down Winnie the Pooh is just trying to find a 180” buck in eastern MT for his upcoming 2023 guided hunt.
 
I have an idea. When it gets to Wyoming, Buzz can order it taken down because I know from reading MM he is in charge and the decision maker for WY. We will just tell him it is a NR heading for a LE hunt before he can personally change all the rules. It will be gone in seconds.
 
As a guy who’s suspicious of Big Government and the Deep State, I think we should be worried about what we’re doing in Montana.

Confusing times.
 
It seems you want a military response and you consider that a sign of leadership.

I recommend you read Peacemaker as you may gain respect for how President Reagan faced constant provocation from the Soviets and how his restrained response saved us from World War III and a potential nuclear catastrophe.

It doesn't take Small Man Syndrome to be a leader, it takes much more than that. Roosevelt famously said, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Shooting down a balloon because you think it would send a message of strength doesn't exemplify that doctrine.
Actually, I would be OK without a military response. But saying we aren't responding for the reason stated is weak. If he had laughed at the puny balloon, told the American people that this was a joke, shows weakness on China's part, and letting the stupid thing run it's course and not wasting missiles was an actual slap in the face to China- OR anything that didn't sound so dang wimpy, I wouldn't be critical of it.

My issue with Biden is this: He constantly states that he follows the direction of (CDC, Joint Chiefs, his lawyers, DOJ, and the dang D&I council) others, and it looks like he has never made a decision on his own. The worst example is his constant non-answers about the silly secret docs thing. Pence finds docs, states it the next day. Biden finds docs, doesn't tell us for two months and only then when CBS found out about it. His excuse? Following the advice of ..........
 
Can you Imagine The Amount Of Spying Going On In Today's World?

The F'N Balloon/Balloons Might Be Filled With COVID 57 or Some Other Kinda BS!

This Is the USA Where People Get Paid To Watch People That Are Watching You!

 

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