What stage is America in?

S

stickerpt

Guest
How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states
adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander
Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the
fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years
earlier:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it
simply cannot exist as a permanent form of
government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the
time that voters discover they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for
the candidates who promise the most benefits from
the public treasury, with the result that every
democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal
policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest
civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years."

"During those 200 years, those nations always
progressed through the following sequence:


1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University
School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out
some interesting facts concerning the 2000
Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush:
2,427,000

Population o f counties won by: Gore: 127 million;
Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won
by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of
the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by
the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's
territory mostly encompassed those citizens living
in government-owned tenements and living off various
forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere
between the "complacency and apathy" phase of
Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some
forty percent of the nation's population already
having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to
twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's and
they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in
fewer than five years.

Pass this a long to help everyone realize just how
much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the
greatest danger to our freedom.



A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong
enough to take everything you have. -- Thomas Jefferson
 
Obama wants to charge them a fee and send them to the back of the line to become citizens, McCain wants to charge them a fee and start them on a program to become citizens if I understand correctly.

I say if you're not going to kick them out leave it alone at least they can't vote, but their 13 kids born here will be able to so we're screwed down the road anyway. their 13 kids who will have 14 kids each will just vote to make Mexico a state, with a new adobe house for the el presidente.

6 close to 7 is about right.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-08 AT 04:27PM (MST)[p]I'd say closer to 8 than a lot think. What amount of debt do you consider to be bondage? What percentage of tax on your income do you consider to be bondage? If you go to the store and pay $3.00 for a loaf of bread, what % of that is tax, taking into account all ingredients from the beginning and all taxes for you to get that $3.00?
 
This year election will tell us if we are at 6, 7, or 8. I am guessing we are at 7 and knockiing on the door of 8.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
that stage when your chits not quite solid but it doesnt hurt to wipe yet. you know somethings wrong but its not bad enough to fix it yet. ;-)

Wildlife population control specialist
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-08 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]We will be a socilist country in 20 years at the rate we are going. There is no states rights or individual rights any more.


If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
 
I was thinking at the beginning of 6. If you want to go off a strict timeline we got another 100 yrs to go. I say this because it was 1913 that the federal reserve act was passed along with the 15th and 16th amendments, if I remember right, shortly after that that established an income tax to pay the interest on the money we borrow from the Fed. All of its borrowed, none of its ours.

The 16th, I believe it was, moved us from a constitutional republic to a simple democracy by changing the way our congressman are elected. Instead of being elected by the state legislators, and therefore answerable to the people, they are now elected by popular election. This along with removing the ability to print money and establish its value, divorced them from having any responsibility and direct control of the economy. Sure they can make law to make things easier or not on business, but they cannot control the economy through the money supply. He who controls the gold makes the rules!

By not being answerable to the state legislators we lost a major control mechanism over them. Taxes used to be assessed by enumuration amongst the states. For instance, say they passed a budget and at the end of the yr there was a deficit. They then would return to the state and inform the state that based upon the population the state had to cough up so much money to pay for the shortfall on the budget they passed. See the beauty in this? If this was in effect today these bums would be thrown out if they didn't balance the budget. But with a simple democracy the voters vote in the people that will give them the most and this eventually will lead to our demise.

now as far as this overall federal deficit goes. Last yr I read that the fed said that the deficit is so high the US is unable to pay it. This is true but what they don't tell you is the interest money to pay the debt is never printed. So you could gather up all the dollars in the world and pay the debt but you'd still owe the interest on that borrowed money to the fed. As far as debt owed to other countries, it is far easier to inflate and make that money worth less so when the bill is due that country actually gets back less than what they bought in real dollars. Inflation is like a tax on the rest of the world, and us of course.

So....by a strict timeline we got another 100 yrs. But, I do believe that if we end up with a dem congress and president this election they will gain possibly 50 yrs. We're still trying to fix the no energy policy, let the Soviets go into Afganistan, lost Iran as an ally, spawned waco environmentalism, medicare, medicaid, social insecurity, etc, etc and no one seems to want to address the huge entitlements that we're going to have to pay out down the road. The entitlements alone are going to cut our standard of living by 2030-2050 so far its going to make your head spin.....if your still alive.
 
Alexander Tyler was a dumb azz. You guys need to calm down like Overton said!






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Okay here is what I'll do. This september I'm going to Scotland and I'll look up Alexander Tyler, I know he's been dead for quite awhile, and see what the old butt head has to say now. If he gives me any crap I'll let him know that the Athenians, just a fancy word for Greeks, have nothing to do with the greatest republic ever. Just a side note there wheren't many Greeks that helped write our founding documents.


RO
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-08 AT 01:22PM (MST)[p]Im sure the romans were smug knowing that they were invincible as well. After all, they had perhaps the greatest military that ever marched onto a battlefield. Corruption eventually let to their destruction, by barbarians no less.
ismith

48461bbc1c983664.jpg
 
There is a fine line between pessimism and realism.

Nothing short of a great bean famine will stop this country from being overtaken it's just a question of when. If Canada is smart they'll build a good fence on their southern border to keep illegals from fleeing north, like we should have.

I refuse to learn Spanish to assimilate, but my " Aye " is getting pretty good.
 
If you read what Dupe wrote it goes right back to what I have said on this board about a million times.

LIBERALS ARE A MISERABLE BUNCH. THEY HONESTLY BELIEVE AMERICA IS GOING STRAIGHT DOWN THE CRAPPER RIGHT ALONG WITH THEIR MISERABLE EXISTENCE!

Good grief!






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-08 AT 04:34PM (MST)[p]I guess that depends on how bad you want this country to become Mexico, I don't. I'm not a big Pat Buchanan fan but his book " the death of the west " is one of the things I agree with him on, so one of your moral warriors said it before me yet I'm the miserable one.

Check it out for yourself, the Pew center estimates that the US population will increase by 117 million people by the year 2050. 82% of that population will be immigrants and their American born children, guess who most of those immigrants will be and how fast they'll multiply. today hispanics make up 14% of the population and by 2050 they'll make up 29% and most will be legal to vote.

If I'm even alive in 2050 I'll be as old as McCain and probably won't care anyway, but I still don't like it. while I've only been to Mexico one time and I'll never go back I saw enough to know that's not what I want this nation to become. I don't want anymore people of any race we're overpopulated as it is, but knowing we'll become part of Mexico is even worse.

If you see the bright side of this be my guest, but don't try to tell me it's all good because I'm not buying it.
 
Im neither liberal or miserable and I do honestly believe America is going straight down the crapper. Perhaps if you removed your head out of your 3rd point of contact and took a look around you would realize our country is in one hell of a bind.
ismith

48461bbc1c983664.jpg
 
Who said I hate either? I don't care for the trouble or expense Israel brings us but I couldn't care less about their religion.

Other than workers doing the jobs lazy Americans won't I can't see anything positive about the Mexican invasion from day one. I don't hate any of them , if we're stupid enough to play along it's our fault though I still don't have enjoy it.
 
Wow it must suck to be ismith or Dupe. How do you guys even find the strength to get up in the morning?

Guys this country is nowhere near going down the craper. get a grip!






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
the parts of this country that are going down the crapper, are going down because of right wing deficit spending, the oldest continuing democracy is Switzerland since something like 1291 and we actually live in a republic, you guys need to quit hanging around bars, its depressing
 
piper, America was set up as a Republic, but it is NOT a Republic today, not by a long shot.

I hate to admit it, but on the 'Mexican invasion' I agree more with dude than 202. This 'invasion' IS hurting America and WILL speed up the demise of this great nation. They are doing to America what the Muslims are doing to Europe. The sooner we wake up and SHUT OUR BORDERS, the better our odds of withstanding this onslaught. Otherwise, we should just vote for Obama and resign ourselves to having our kids learn Spanish and their FIRST language.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
It's funny how Piper comes aboard and accuses members of hanging out at bars. I wonder if he thinks that bars are worse then the public rest rooms he hangs out at.
I also aggree that we need to shut down our border and deport a lot of the illegals here and start a guest worker program where they are only allowed to stay 6-7 months in a year and no fringe benifits that American citizens have.


RELH
 
Build a big enough fence, deport, drug test welfare thieves, mandatory work for others able to work on welfare, then use a guest worker program, and set minimum prerequesites for voting. This would be a start.
 
I equate the illegal aliens to illeagal drugs. You can have a war on drugs and you can not stop it. Hell they get as much drugs as they like in our prissons. The same thing with illegal aliens. As long as there is a demand for them they will come and keep coming and nothing will stop them.

The sure fire way to put a huge dent in this problem is to start locking up folks like Hdude that employ illegals. I guarantee you if you start throwing some of these employers in the slam. The illegals will go away for the most part.

The folks that hire the illegals are the problem.






"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
don't lock them up, but a 10.000$ first offense fine for employers that hire illegals should do, make a system for instant SS checkouts, but make guestworkers available for seasonal work, and employee shortages, if some construction projects cost a little more so be it.
 
> don't lock them up,
>but a 10.000$ first offense
>fine for employers that hire
>illegals should do, make a
>system for instant SS checkouts,
>but make guestworkers available for
>seasonal work, and employee shortages,
>if some construction projects cost
>a little more so be
>it.

That would work if they'd do it. They can do an instant background check to buy a gun, why not an instant citizenship check to get a job.
 
Because they know the laborers are needed and if a system was in place to verify them before the work was done it wouldn't get done. if you think food is expensive now wait until a union like the teamsters are doing it.

This is all crap, I could tell the cops where a dozen illegals who's numbers came back fake live and what do you think they would do about it? they'd just laugh. you want the employer to slove the problem and it's not going to work. there will always be jobs under the table or something to steal for cash. they are not going to leave the USA because it's a little tough, it's tougher where they came from.

If they're criminals arrest them, if they're not them blaming the employer who may not even know he's employing a wet back is like hiding behind you mothers skirt and asking someone else to fix your problem. the only way to be sure your workers are 100% legal today is to not hire anyone who looks or sounds like a Mexican. now that would go over real big.
 
It wouldn't be perfect, but it would help a lot to have instant check, then these big companys like halliburton and the big motel chains would not be able to do what they doing are right now, for seasonal help there are legal workers available to fill low paying jobs, in this town there are workers from Brazil, Serbia, Peru, Nepal, and Russia that I know about, all are legal. a couple years ago the ski resort had a bunch of eastern European goddesses working for the winter, try going to Canada and working there illegally, the illegals here have ruined a lot of the construction industry for American workers, I don't see whats wrong with slaping a big fine on employers that knowingly hire illegals, I know of a few guys around here that would have to get out of the pub and do a little work themselves if that were to happen
 
Dude; The reason you can tell a cop about Illegals, and they do nothing about it is because the ACLU has threaten most non-federal law enforcement with big law suits if they make any mistakes while arresting Illegals for a unlawful entry, which is a federal offense. I read the form letter that my department got years ago from the ACLU. So most departments advised their officers not to make an arrest for "unlawful entry" only, just for state and local crime violations.
But arresting employers will work, you see the ACLU would never take any action to protect a American citizen employer, so there is no fear of law suits for the local agencies. How does it feel to see your tax dollars support the ACLU and they will never give you the protection that they do illegal aliens.

RELH
 
RELH

You are arguing with a guy who thinks most of us are here illegally. Meaning anyone who is not Native American. Just maybe he wants nonindians to be miserable as some form of payback.


Ransom
 
By the way only 13/16 of me is here illegally, the other 3/16 gets to stay. Just think of the utopia this would be had the white man not crossed the Atlantic. The whole nation would mirror the reservations. What a beautiful sight that would be.
48873ffd7e3829cb.jpg



Ransom
 
Now that you admitted that, dude will call you a "blanket Indian" for siding with the white eyes.

RELH
 
RELH

I wouldn't have made a very good indian anyway. I'm a poor shot with a bow and I don't much care to sleep on the ground. Besides I like being on the winning side.


Ransom
 
I haven't seen a rez yet I didn't like better than Mexico.

Fast forward 100 years and see who the winner is, if you can read spanish that it is. at least the indians put up a fight, you're rolling over with amnisty plans for a small fee. brilliant.
 
I'm not rolling over at all. I think your beloved federal government should enforce the existing laws. If they did that the problem would be solved. BUT since we do know that the government falls short we can all do our part by not hiring illegals. If you hire illegals you are the one who is rolling over.
By the way my tribes put up a longer and more fierce fight than yours knucklehead.
 
Like I said , if they're illegal deport them, if you don't want to deport them they have to eat so they'll work or steal or both. the employer thing is just a cop out to put the burden and blame on someone else. it's just like taxes, the best plan is the one that effects someone else and who better than the employer who everyone thinks is rich and hates anyway. just deport known illegals and those using fake papers and they won't be here to ask for a job next time, what's wrong with that plan?

McBush wants to charge them a few bucks and fast track them to becoming citizens so they can vote, if that's not rolling over I don't know what is.
 
99% of the employers hiring illegals are upstanding citizens. Bust a few of these folks and watch the illegals jobs dry up in a heart beat. Employers don't want to go to the slam. The illegals will then have little to no place to work. They will in turn go home or get legal real quick and start obeying the law.

Hdude. I could give a rats azz if the cost of food goes up. The cost of gas is already doing that. Everything is relative.

I could be a tight azz and hire illegals but I don't. The scum that hire the illegals are to blame for this problem. Throw employer in slam and illegal problem melts away.





"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
>99% of the employers hiring illegals
>are upstanding citizens. Bust a
>few of these folks and
>watch the illegals jobs dry
>up in a heart beat.
>Employers don't want to go
>to the slam. The illegals
>will then have little to
>no place to work. They
>will in turn go home
>or get legal real quick
>and start obeying the law.
>
>
>Hdude. I could give a rats
>azz if the cost of
>food goes up. The cost
>of gas is already doing
>that. Everything is relative.
>
>I could be a tight azz
>and hire illegals but I
>don't. The scum that hire
>the illegals are to blame
>for this problem. Throw employer
>in slam and illegal problem
>melts away.
>
>
>
>
>
>"dude, nothing we can say will
>make us like as childish/silly
>as the rants you post.
>We HAVE posted the parts,
>you chose to ignore them.
>We get it, you like
>soldiers that sell out their
>fellow soldiers for political gain,
>and you hate or hold
>in contempt those that take
>a stand. We get that
>you manage to see NOTHING
>but bad in Republicans, and
>nothing put pure and honorable
>intentions from fellow limp wristed
>libs. We got it already,
>now move on."
>(PRO July 3, 2008)

Agreed. Just like poaching. Make the penalty large enough and enforce it and it'll 99% stop.
 
Are you actually saying if the illegals can't get a minimum wage job they'll leave? good one.

They know if they hang around long enough they'll get an amnisty deal like McCain is talking about so what would going home gain them? between what their legal relatives do for them, the handouts we give them through all sorts of government and charity programs and what they steal 99% of these people are far better off than they are at home. the kids they pop out like a pez dispenser are US citizens and will bring them here legally later on anyway and they know it, they're not going anywhere and anyone with a lick of sense knows it.

I don't mind a fine for employers I just think it's a crumby way to enforce the law by going after somebody who may not even know they're hiring an illegal while the illegal alien themself is free to go look for the next job knowing the law isn't after him. since the US miltary allows illegals to make it through there screening without detection, and they have, good luck coming up with a program an apple farmer can make work on the end of his field when 100 people show up to pick, and good luck making that fine stick.

Again , why not just arrest the wet back and deport them ? maybe then fine employers who fail to report workers who are found to be illegal so they can be deported? you'd be surprised how many are legal, about half and they could sue if I told them to get lost because they look illegal because they're a Mexican. I can tell you who is illegal that have worked for me but I can't tell you how many of the next 10 workers are illegal until the SS dept contacts me a few months from now. not your problem, it's mine right? real fair.
 
If you put the employer in jail the wetback will lose his job. But you can't send him back to Mexico because him and his weback wife have an "anchor baby" who is a legal citizen. He has no choice but to get public assistance. We're stuck with him, whether we like it or not.

The first thing to do is CLOSE THE BORDER, and deal with the ones who are here in some sort of compromise deal. We have to because we stood by and let this happen.

Now, CLOSE THE BORDER!!!!!!!

Eel
 
It cost money to put someone in jail, you fine the employers that knowingly hire wetbacks, big fines, then deal with the ones that are here, the border fence is a waste of money and a joke,most other countrys don't have problems like us because they don't allow their citizens to employ millions of illegal workers
 
Eel is right, they're not leaving.

If we're not going to get rid of them making sure they don't do the work we won't do makes no sense. let them go 100% on public assistance and steal whatever it is they can't get by doing so.

I don't care, this mess isn't going away and I'm not going to solve it.
 
Yes Dude that is exactly what I am saying and it has been proven to work. Take a look at Arizona. They cracked down on employers and the wets and the wets began leaving Arizona by the droves. Going back home. It works its just that none of our politicians have any balls to do it!







"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Going home? yeah right, they'll move to where they can get a job until that doesn't work and then they'll go to plan B. they aren't going to have a job when they get back to Mexico either so why not cash in on the handouts here until they get amnisty. only a very few are going to leave the US, they'll just seek the best feed grounds available and right now that's not AZ.


Case in point, an illegal in SF stuck in traffic jumped out with his AK 47 anf opened fire on a car killing a guy and his two teenage sons today. he's been in trouble with the law 3 times before but never deported, but if he had a job it's the employers fault right? yeah that sounds like the kind of guy who will leave on his own free will.
 
Now what was that you said the other day...........oh yea....."There are good people and bad people don't drag the good ones down with the bad"

Yea I heard about that pepper. Very sad story. To bad SF is a sanctuary city.

Thowing some business owners in the slam will not get them all to leave but I would bet 90% would.







"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)
 
Whatever, none of this matters because Obama wants to let them stay and McBush wants to make them citizens. so they won't be asking for jobs anymore they'll just go on welfare, problem solved.
 
most of them would leave. For a lot of them the only reason they come here is to work and send money back home. I say this cause I knew one a yr or so ago. He was from Guatamaula and his family had scraped and saved $5k to get him here in the false floor board of a semi truck. His plan was to send enough money home over the course of 5 yrs so he could buy two 3 or 4 bedroom houses for 30k a piece. Then he was going to rent one and live in the other and retire. I honestly have to say I hope he pulled it off, he was one helluva nice guy and worked like nothing I had ever seen in landscaping. I would consider him among that 10% that would not leave cause he only worked for cash. But if the entire US did like arizona did most of them would go, take away the jobs and cut off the welfare and whats left??

Nothing!
 

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