That’s the main problem with the Paramounts. Lots of quality control issues lately to boot I hear. I’d stay away from CVAs. If money is no object tell him to buy/build a custom .45.
Same here.
What does concern for getting components have to do with quality control? What have you heard?
Components and quality control issues are separate. The Powerbelt line of bullets are widely considered subpar terminal performers. So, I personally wouldn’t consider buying a rifle that was designed to shoot them. Lots of recent CVA quality control (inaccuracy, fit, finish, etc) issues discussed on other dedicated muzzleloader boards. For the money you’d spend on a Paramount, you could have a much nicer smokeless-capable rifle.
I had MGM put a barrel on my Thompson as well. 45 caliber Blackhorn 209 sizing die. To size the bullet to the barrel. No sabot needed. Shoots better then most rifles. Touches all the bullets at 100 yards. Arrowhead rifles also puts some nice muzzleloader rifle together.
“True magnums?” You’re describing a niche ignition system which is mainly useful in smokeless guns. No need to go to rifle primer system for any muzzleloader hunting inside 350 yards (which is further than 90% of guys should be shooting) IMO. If a guy has 10-20 years of experience killing with a “non magnum” muzzleloader and/or wants to target shoot at 800-1000 yards with his custom 15-65 lb smokeless rifle then he may want to mess around with a HIS/DIS/Variflame type systems. Not necessary for the vast majority of us.
You’re correct on the fact that a 209 will burn enough powder for ethical shots to 300-350 yards. It won’t beyond that. Mine will burn 122gr BH209 (by weight) and leave a clean barrel and extend my ethical range to 600-700. If that’s not what you’re after then that’s fine but a lot of guys are nowadays. Smokeless has nothing to do with it. You need the heat of a large rifle primer to burn more then about 80gr of BH209 (by weight)
While the long range muzzleloaders might be a good option for now, those long range guns will be useless if scopes are banned on muzzleloaders.
Can you shoot 600-700 yards with open sights?
He’s asking about Utah general muzzy which scopes are legal. I am good to 700 with the turret scope on it. I have a red dot I use on it where magnification isn’t legal. I’m good to 350 with that but holdover gets tricky. I have a globe front and peep rear for it for NV and CO and I’m good to 300 with those as long as the light is good. Sighted 3” high at 100 it’s dead on at 225 and 3” low at 250 so my max PBR is 285 with it. Hold on their back line at 325-350. If I was shooting my old 209 rifle my max PBR drops by almost 100 yards.
You’re joking?! Lots of guys are shooting out to 1000 with BH209 and 209s. And we have a clean barrel when we’re done.
Says who? Tell us more about this whizz bang rifle you’re shooting!
I’ve run way over what probably should be shot out of a 209 primed encore. They just get dirtier and shoot worse after about 80gr BH209 (by weight).
How much BH209 you running in it? I’m guessing at 1000 you don’t have much gas left in it. My rifle shoots 300gr Parker’s at 2650fps with 122gr BH209 over a LRM primer. My old encore leveled off about 2000fps and just got dirtier the more powder I put in it.
I shoot 120 grV BH209. Which is the load guys have been shooting at the NMLRA inline 1000 yd shoot for several years.
120gr by volume is 84gr by weight. Not far enough off from the 80 I said in my initial post that you thought was so ludicrous. My rifle is a Bad to the Bone muzzleloader out of Las Cruces NM. Again, I said that a 209 doesn’t burn much past 80gr and you pretty much summed that up with your load. Mine will completely burn 122gr by weight (158 volume) and crank out about 650fps more then yours. It is actually set up to kill stuff that far out it not just poke holes in paper. To come back around to the point I was making, you could beef up an action and dump 122gr by weight of BH209 in there and torch it off with a 209 primer and most of it would go out the end of the barrel and make a mess. Hence why you shoot 84gr by weight out of yours and why I said around 80 is where you start getting diminishing returns on it with 209 primers. So where did I go wrong to get your panties so bunched up? You need a magnum rifle primer to burn more then that. Which again takes me back to my first post.
I’m not sure where to start.
Congrats. Sounds like you’re a great shot. You also have a gun that has enough energy to use in hunting situations to around 300-350 yards (just like I said in my original post yet here we are). Hunting and paper punching are two vastly different things (but you probably know that….). I haven’t gotten any newer lots of BH209 so I haven’t compared weight to volume on them but was going off of my standard which I’m guessing is close to your standard from older lots as it is close with every lot I’ve had since I started messing with it in 2009 or so. But you probably knew that too….
I wouldn't recommend the optima unless you actually hold and shoot one and like it. My dad bought one on recommendations, and hates it. I don't like to shoot it either. Is very uncomfortable. To the OP, look at muzzleloaders, actually hold them and get a sight picture with them. That is how you find a gun that fits you. Not by looking online. And shooting a thousand yards with a muzzleloader???? WTH you guys are crazy. lol I loved muzzleloader hunting for the thrill of the chase. Not sitting back and sniping.
I bought an Optima last year and have no issues with it. Replaced the factory rear sight with a peep rib and left the front site alone.
There's not really an issue with it. Just doesn't fit right for some. The way it is designed, doesn't feel comfortable to me. That's the meaning of my post. A gun can feel great to one person, and horrible to another. Best to get your hands on them.
Yet
will a Federal 209 A primer work with the BH209 120 volume?
Yes - no problem
Yes
Found ya one. Sending PM.
