Why do we limit our hunting?

cantkillathing

cantkillathing

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-19 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]Just curious as hunters in utah specifically. Do you ever feel like we have screwed ourselves out of a lot of hunting opportunities by trying to raise big bull elk for the rich to hunt? My wife has been putting in for elk for 23 years now, she is about to draw a tag out of the max point group, but man is it really worth the wait. If you are rich you get to hunt the bull elk every year, but if your not, you waited a life time to hunt a bull elk in utah. So my question again, is the loss of hunting opportunity worth the wait?
For the elk we sacrifice years for one opportunity, possibly 2 if your lucky. In Utah we should look at hunting these animals a different way, and give out lots more chances to hunt them instead of raising them for the kings to hunt. I think I would rather hunt elk every 3 to 4 years rather than hunt them once or twice in a lifetime. We are sacrificing to much for the kings to enjoy the fruits of our loss of opportunity.
Dont give me the spike hunt as our opportunity, or the cow tags.
If you really look at your chances to ever draw a tag in utah it will get more discouraging if you really knew your odds if you dont have atleast 20 points.

And yes my view has changed, I use to say wait your turn and this and that, but my kids getting old enough to hunt, and putting them in really discouraged me, because i know its going to be a long shot for them ever to draw a tag. There best bet is to become rich and buy a tag..
 
To answer your question, No it is not worth the wait for me. However, there is really no way for Utah to get around the fact that you have too much demand and not enough supply. You could help that equation by decreasing the age objective and therefore increase tags. That would in theory also decrease demand since not as many people, the OP included, want to hunt smaller bulls. Not sure why you would remove the spike and cow hunts from your wish list. The only way I can see for your wait time between tags to decrease is to increase tags and then you will turn the hunts into more of a raghorn hunt. Don't know why you would rather take a 4 point than a spike or cow. But to each their own. No matter how you slice it Utah has too many people and not enough animals to make it a consistent hunt for mature animals. It will only get worse as time goes on.
 
Best bet when it comes to about anything is....."become rich". It ain't just hunting where money buys better opportunity and experiences.

The game and fish department wants money, and some people have a bundle of it and are willing to hand it over in the form of donations for those tags.

To bring in $15,000, the game and fish can sell one tag and one bull is killed. Or, they can offer 30 tags at $500 a pop to get that $15k and 20 bulls or so are killed.

I've never had a big issue with conservation tags, but I do think there are way too many of them. A few is ok. But regardless how many there are, someone will complain. If there were none, then to generate the same revenue, tag prices would need to go up and someone would complain.

A perfect balance that satisfies everyone will never be found.

35 years ago, elk hunting opportunity in Utah was near none. Far more opportunity none than then.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
That is true Brian. There is more opportunity now for elk than there was before.
I am not saying kill all the elk and we have to be successful on our hunt to be satisfied. I just think there is more ways to hunt them that will create more opportunities. I dont need to kill a 400 inch bull, that would be nice, but I wouldnt be dissapointed if I didn't get one. It does make those that have waited so long for the tag knowing they will never hunt one again need to kill a 350+ bull.
But we have sacrificed a lot of hunting opportunity to create big bulls, because now we all want a bug bull.
 
So if she's waited 23 years then it IS ALL ABOUT THE INCHES to you too since she could have drawn a "lesser" tag and been back in line for another in a couple years.

I agree that there's a need for a few conservation tags but I also agree that it's totally out of hand. With that said, even if all the con-tags were thrown back into the mix it wouldn't change the wait that much....unless you increase tags, lower the age objective and be willing to hunt smaller younger bulls, which she hasn't been to this point.

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
I'm also old enough to remember all the "opportunity" hunt for elk when most units were "general" tags.

I managed to kill elk back then because I took lots and lots of time but it was also damn tough to find them and even tougher to find anything decent. Even a small 6x6 was considered a real prize and folks would come from far and wide to see a 6x6 if someone got lucky and killed one.

I wish I had all the answers and had all the power to do something about it.

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
No with my wife and 23 points hasn't been totally about the inches, we just want to hunt our back yard, not travel to hunt. Me personally I drew an archery LaSal elk tag years ago with 5 points, because I wanted to hunt, and not wait. With 5 kids that range from 15 to 5, its not easy to pack up and take time off with 5 kids, but hunting our back yard will be easier on family situations.
 
In Utah we are pimping out our wildlife. We have made it legal for guides and outfitters to make money to hunt our public animals. So yes this does hurt the average joe. How can we compete against them on our public ground!
 
I understand. I had 5 lids too and packed them up and traveled great distances to hunt the "general" elk in hopes of finding one.

While I'm sure the wait has been difficult for her (you), we still have it so good right now that we have little else but the wait to complain about. There ARE opportunity hunts to be had but she seems disinterested in those, according to your prior comment.

Would your wife (you) be so anxious to hunt elk if she (you) knew the whole season might pass without seeing a bull?????

Like I said, increase tags, lower the age, run more folks through the system to hunt smaller bulls. It all boils down to more demand than the resource can handle. We've seen the howl that guys make when this happens so it's difficult (impossible) to have the right answer for everyone.

I hope your wife draws and you have a wonderful hunt!!!!!

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
I could spin this by saying you want to change the rules AFTER you draw the tag? LOL It's common nature. Yes it would be nice to see a few units with lower age class and maybe more primitive weapons with Oct hunt dates.
 
>thats my point Zeke, we have
>created this by limiting our
>opportunities, 23 years ago it
>didn't matter.

That's true!

We cannot have BOTH opportunity and quality on the same exact animals (mature males)...because of the people-population (demand on the resource). No one in their right mind would build 23 points for an opportunity hunt so "inches" come into play here somewhere.

If SIZE doesn't matter then there are plenty other elk hunts...but you said you didn't want to talk about those, so we won't.

We're on the same page on many things but we differ a tiny bit because I've seen it both ways.

I hope your wife has a blast on her hunt (when she draws) and that she appreciates all you've done for her!!!

Zeke

#livelikezac
 
The System is gonna Blow & it Ain't Far away!

I've Heard numerous Idiots Say:

Somethings gotta be done & They Need to Start over!

Don't know about anybody else but I'm NOT Throwing My F'N Points away!

Keep Hearing JACK-ASSES Say we need more opportunity in LE Units!

Go Hunt General Units if You want a PISSCUTTER!

Like Founder said:

You Ain't gonna Satisfy Everybody & I Don't care what's put in Place!

LE Units are already Down Some & Have been for the Last Few years!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
It sucks!

It has changed a ton in my lifetime. It is really now once in a lifetime for deer and elk if you want to kill a trophy.

It took me twenty years to draw my Henry mt. deer tag and I was fifty the year I drew it. Now I start for elk with the idea it will take about ten years to draw. That puts me at sixty. Now way I get a quality deer tag again.

I was lucky and drew an elk tag at the expo this year though.

But also keep in mind that I burned all of those years and I am only applying for archery.

I don't have the answer on how to correct the course. I just know that my kids will never get to hunt like I did.
 
Yes is worth it!..Who only hunts thier home town, state, country?.. Wait out the special tags..Go hunt, year around if you want, somewhere else!..Bh1
 
Ya. We've screwed ourselves. Go put in your 12 yr old and be honest, would you have hung around for 20 yrs waiting?

Guys keep saying " well just go somewhere else and hunt", not noticing that as Utah population expands, so does the states around us.

Bet your azz if Doyle had to worry about his customers having 5 year waits at a min to draw, the guides would collapse the point systems. They don't care because their repeat yearly customers, just buy tags. The CWMU system is even worse. Unlike other states that push block management, ours encourages more CWMU.

No one ever claims Utah is better than ID or NM. Yet they don't have a scheme.

No other state seems to need 400? tags for auction either.



"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Two different problems being discussed. 400 auction tags and LE units limiting opportunities.

As far as LE limiting opportunities it seems to me there are plenty of those type of hunts out there. Having LE hunts allow herds a healthy ratio of older class bulls and bucks. It's just not the hunting, I don't care what the wildlife agencies say, having 1 1/2 year old males breeding all the does is not a healthy herd. You need all age classes in a healthy ecosystem.

The tags, well it appears it goes back to the same old conversation and who is running the state of Utah.

Rich
 
If Utah wants to keep the quality of its animals up but issue more tags they need to change up seasons. Adjust rifle season. Limit muzzy?s like no scopes or 209 primers, etc. Give opportunity without making it so easy to kill.

They could issue more tags and still have good quality.
 
>If Utah wants to keep the
>quality of its animals up
>but issue more tags they
>need to change up seasons.
>Adjust rifle season. Limit muzzy?s
>like no scopes or 209
>primers, etc. Give opportunity without
>making it so easy to
>kill.
>
>They could issue more tags and
>still have good quality.

Part of a QUALITY Hunt is not having to Deal with Thousands of PUMPKINS!

If anybody Thinks We need More pressure than what We've already got on Our Game Herds they Best Get in the Field More often or Open a Proclamation that Offers Continuous & Over-Lapped Hunts from Mid-August thru January/February!

GEEZUS!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Hey cant?

Have You checked your PM in a while?

I'm sending you another PM!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Just for you guys to know I will be putting in for a less sought after tag next year with my 2 older kids and will draw archery tags together. We will have time to remember. Then 5 years will go and they will be out of house before I will ever get to hunt bull elk with them again Then it will take to many years to have the same experience with my younger kids. Some things need to change. Not dramatically but a little change that could work better. Like changing waiting periods on certain tags or certain units.

Zeke my wife had points before we got married. Sorry you don't have a wife that likes to hunt.
 
I agree this has been my argument every time. We can't keep the populations in our western states from growing so the only way to having opportunity is to lessen our effectiveness as hunters.
NO compounds, No scopes, old fashioned muzzle-loaders and watch our herd come back with some more mature animals all the while increasing opportunities throughout the west.
 
I have been blessed with a lot of good draw tags in my life. I started in my teens and I'm now in my 60s and I will draw another handful of tags before I'm done. I have always been addicted to hunting, I did not go to college because it interfered with hunting, everything I did involved hunting year around and scouting. I new applying in different states would take time and money but it was my investment for the future and I new if I stuck to it , I would eventually draw tags. I have been going to hunt Expo since it started, the first time it was exciting at the chance of drawing a premium once in a lifetime tags or the possibility of winning won of the sheep raffles, I took my daughter the last two years and she loves going, I would love to be able to give her the chances I had to hunt growing up, but that's not going to happen. I heard the SFW of Idaho wants to follow Utah in a big style hunt expo auctioning off Idaho tags just like Utah does. I hope this never happens, and I will fight it all the way. Yes I agree with you guys and gals from Utah, you are being ripped off, if I lived there I would be mad also, Utah puts on a big show for all of us to come to and yet we get to go home to our states and say I hope that doesn't happen here. So far we have kept Idaho to 1 Bighornsheep auction tag, but those legislators and commissioners keep pushing for more tags. I like quality hunting but that seems to be changing also. This year in Idaho, the fish and game announced they will be managing for quantities not quality, they say hunters do not want to wait out years after drawing a tag, they want to hunt every year. I also see Colorado going down the same path. I agree that auction tags do help bring the game and fish departments more money. I don't really care to read about the same old rich guys hunts and there 20 guides that took that animal they have been watching for two years. I do like reading about the humble hunter that drew a tag and his trials and hardships of an outrageous adventure.
 
This truly is the dilemma of the century for hunters. Utah has tried to have its cake and eat it too with the general season/limited entry system. I think the system probably worked great early on, but has its difficulties as time and the number of applicants increase.

In a state that is being populated the way that Utah is, you simply will not be able to manage for trophy hunting and opportunity at the same time. Utah has made a noble effort to do that, but we'll hit the breaking point soon enough. The question will be this: Will those in charge care when the time comes? Or will they keep feeding the hog they feed now?
 
Personally I feel like I have more hunting opportunities then I did back in the early 90?s.. sure we don't get to go kill 3 deer a year (archery, rifle, muzzy) but we don't have the deer numbers like we use to. However, elk hunting was almost non existant back then. These conservation groups, especially SFW has done a ton to increase our elk herds and our OIL opportunities. Without them we wouldn't have 3 herds of bison to hunt, or we would be hunting goats on 2-3 mtn ranges, and sheep hunting wouldn't be as broad as it is now. We also wouldn't have the elk hunting opportunities that you have now without them buying up gracing rights and elk transplants.

Sure they take some tags from the draws, but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't increase my odds of drawing a tag. Few years ago when I ran numbers it wouldn't even increase it 1%. When I drive down through southern Utah, or through Spanish Fork canyon I'm amassed at the juniper removal and habitat restoration that is funded from the sell of these tags.

I dont agree with everything they do, but my hunting opportunities have increased and the quality of animals have increased that I get to hunt. For me that's an easy sacrifice for the tags that they sell and give away.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 11:07AM (MST)[p]>
>Zeke my wife had points before
>we got married. Sorry
>you don't have a wife
>that likes to hunt.

I have no idea where you came up with that lame thought.
It just goes to show what you THINK you know when you assume incorrectly.

4190506082181.jpg


It's obvious that you don't want to play nice and have no room in your head for a differing viewpoints.

Zeke


#livelikezac
 
No I was just throwing assumptions like it seemed you were, You kept referring my wifes tag to me. Which seemed to me like you were trying to imply something, if I am wrong I apologize.

"Would your wife (you) be so anxious to hunt elk if she (you) knew the whole season might pass without seeing a bull?????"

"I hope your wife draws and you have a wonderful hunt!!!!!"
 
>No I was just throwing assumptions
>like it seemed you were,
>You kept referring my wifes
>tag to me. Which seemed
>to me like you were
>trying to imply something, if
>I am wrong I apologize.
>
>
>"Would your wife (you) be so
>anxious to hunt elk if
>she (you) knew the whole
>season might pass without seeing
>a bull?????"
>
>"I hope your wife draws and
>you have a wonderful hunt!!!!!"
>

I said it that way because I was talking to you and about her.
It was confusing.
No disrespect meant to her.

#livelikezac
 
I certainly recognize that conservation permits fund some significant conservation projects around the state, but I don't think that you can really argue that opportunity has increased over the last 25 years as a result of those permits.

I am not blaming these groups for the state of our deer herds but the fact is that our deer herds have struggled mightily. We used to have 250K hunters in the field and now we have 90K. The entire state has essentially moved to a LE bonus point system. I don't blame the groups for the extended droughts, increased human population, increased traffic, loss of winter range, etc., which have all impacted our deer herds. But if you are going to take credit for everything good that happens under you watch then you also have to take blame for things that don't go as well.

With regard to elk, I don't give the conservation groups a lot of credit for the growth of our elk herds. I know they have lobbied for increased objective numbers in some areas and I appreciate those efforts but I don't believe that they have played a significant role in the actual growth of our herds.

With regard to OIL species such as sheep, buffalo, moose and goats, I recognize that conservation groups have used conservation permit money to do research and transplants around the state. I recognize and appreciate those efforts. That being said, these efforts have not really increased overall opportunity for sportsmen when you look at the drawing odds for OIL permits, especially for those young hunters just entering the game.

As far as juniper removal and habitat restoration projects, those are great and the groups should be commended for those efforts. Once again, however, have those projects significantly increased opportunity for sportsmen across the board? I am not seeing it. I've heard DP refer to Utah as "the Serengeti of the West" as a direct result of conservation permits and conservation project funding. With the amount of money that Utah has invested, you would think that Utah would be overrun with big game. What do you guys think? Is hunting in Utah better than what you have experienced in other western states? I don't think so. I believe that other states have done as good of a job, if not better, than Utah without selling out hundreds of conservation permits. Utah has more conservation permits than all other western states combined. As sportsmen, are we seeing real returns for that significant investment? You tell me.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
this has nothing to do with SFW, projects have helped everything they have done has helped. this is about opportunities to hunt, and how to create more opportunities.
I just feel like inches on animals have created a rich man sport, which has caused most public loss of opportunity because we are catering to the rich and the inches of antlers.

The way we wait for a tag has caused somewhat of a persona that we have to fill our tag and we have to shoot a big bull. Because the chances of drawing again are slim to none.

A tweeking of seasons, or tweeking the waiting years could benefit in my opinion. Like maybe more archery tags, less early rifle tags, less muzzy tags, more late season tags. No waiting periods if you dont fill your tag, etc... Or on certian units there are no waiting periods, but if you draw and shoot one then yes a waiting period, maybe less waiting periods for archery, and more waiting for rifle, anyhow just throwing out ideas.
 
>this has nothing to do with
>SFW, projects have helped everything
>they have done has helped.
> this is about opportunities
>to hunt, and how to
>create more opportunities.
>I just feel like inches on
>animals have created a rich
>man sport, which has caused
>most public loss of opportunity
>because we are catering to
>the rich and the inches
>of antlers.
>
>The way we wait for a
>tag has caused somewhat of
>a persona that we have
>to fill our tag and
>we have to shoot a
>big bull. Because the chances
>of drawing again are slim
>to none.
>
>A tweeking of seasons, or tweeking
>the waiting years could benefit
>in my opinion. Like maybe
>more archery tags, less early
>rifle tags, less muzzy tags,
>more late season tags.
>No waiting periods if you
>dont fill your tag, etc...
>Or on certian units there
>are no waiting periods, but
>if you draw and shoot
>one then yes a waiting
>period, maybe less waiting periods
>for archery, and more waiting
>for rifle, anyhow just
>throwing out ideas.

What ever happened to the President of SFW when he stated that he was thinking that Utah needs to mirror Arizona as far as Elk hunting goes? Taking the rifle out of the rut and putting archery there? I hope he follows through with that comment made over 1 year ago at the Expo and WB meetings.
 
Thats the problem sometimes with communicating with people on internet or electronic typing, we take context the different way, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
 
Cant-

I believe it is all interrelated. There is always a conflict between opportunity and quality, and it is important to try to find a balance between these two competing interests. But when the states carves out hundreds of premium permits to be sold to the highest bidder by conservation groups, which of those two interests are the conservation groups going to advocate for? I think we have a situation where the tail is wagging the dog.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Hunting honestly has moved toward a money/profit driven industry. Call it a donation towards conservation but in all reality all auction tags have done is create a country club/look at me society that really only benefits those who can afford those tags and the outfitters that get to guide them. I think Doyle Moss has done quite well for himself by buddying up with guys like Denny Austad. I've personally moved away from most preference point wild goose chases across the west excluding sheep, goat and moose. I've found that making the most out of OTC and easy to draw tags and hunting them enough to get dang good at harvesting quality animals on highly pressured units has brought me much fulfillment in hunting than spending my life chasing a couple tags I quite possibly will never draw until I'm an old man. Hunting and tags are ultimately what you make of them.

Coloradoboy
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 01:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 01:45?PM (MST)

Here's how you fix it. More archery hunters and muzzleloader hunters. 2 archery hunts, shorten seasons and change the dates. Just like New Mexico does. Rifle hunts moved out of the rut (Good luck convincing the big game pimps of utah) . More primitive hunters on shorter seasons puts people through the system and age class and numbers are not affected. You could even do some units where rifle hunting is not allowed. It most likely will not ever happen. Point systems are a failure across the west. Idaho has it figured out limits on tech. some are extreme. Same draw odds across the board for great tags. They just need to get rid of some apex predator issues. New mexico has a great system as well. Utah on the other hand as for now get in line and hopefully you can force a random draw because you can't catch point creep it is completely impossible. Grandfather in everyone at 15 points plus as max points with better odds til they are drawn and no more points after that. Honest question how many of you on here voted for a point system years ago and do you feel different about it today than you did at the time?

"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
 
To increase odds for drawing limited tags why not 1. limit the number of limited entry tags an individual can apply for in a year to 1. The individual has to choose just one whether it be moose, sheep, goat, deer, elk. 2. When you do draw a tag you cannot apply for a limited tag for 3 years.

Also no point system, and no guaranteed tags for outfitters unless strictly for private land.
 
wstrntines has the answer in his post.

The problem with rich guys is they're used to having it their way.

Inches in UT will start to not matter if UT outlaws flat brim hats from being worn while hunting or Insta photo-opping. No need to get more strict on technology, it would take care if itself.

Isn't Doyle a sponsored outfitter on MM...?
 
Not the first time this has been brought up. Every other time it's usually the same scenario. I just drew a tag that took forever to get due to the high quality hunt, but now that I have it I want more tags to hunt more so nobody else can have the same quality hunt I did. I don't see the point that the argument is coming from someone who waited 23 years for a tag. There are plenty opportunities to hunt bull elk in Utah every year let alone 23 years. I agree with your point about rich people though. If the money they spent went back into wildlife instead of a few pockets like Peay I would be okay about it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-19 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]If you take the Pahvant and have 20 points this year, it will take you 19 years to still draw. so some people are half the wait, is it worth it to them to wait another 19 years. It gets worse after that.

I am just simply asking is it worth that wait. I personally couldn't wait, I knew the odds, so I did take a less sought after tag, and will again soon, Just waiting another year. I think its fine if people want to wait 40 years if it is worth it to them. I would rather have more opportunity on some of the hunts in Utah. Some tags shouldn't have to wait the 5 years to put back in. All the waiting game does, is floods the LE deer application process in my opinion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-19 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]The answer to Hawkeyes questions are simply no.

We talk about tech restrictions or limits. It doesn't need to be harsh.

Trail cams banned during the seasons don't limit families enjoying pics. They will make outfitters scout. They will make us as well.

The rifle during elk rut is a no brainer.

Limit scopes to 9x.

Adopt Colorado muzzy rules.


5 year wait after any LE tag, drawn or auction.


Grab some low hanging fruit, see what happens.





"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Limit Scopes to 9X?

Should be enough for My SmokePole Right?:D







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
How about these ideas?

ONCE, let me repeat, ONCE-in-a lifetime per OIL species regardless of the source of the permit, ie: Standard public draw, Expo draw, auction, CWMU draw, CWMU purchase, and Sportsman draw. If you want to hunt more than one of any OIL species, you can go to another state.

Limited Entry permit waiting periods should also apply regardless of the source of the permit. (see above)

Pull the OIL and big game LE tags out of the mentoring program. It's counterproductive to our hunting future to keep grooming generations of trophy hunters. Or, if we leave them in, the youth are subject to the same regulations and status of the mentor, ie: ONCE-in-a-lifetime or a 5 year waiting period. After all, we're managing HUNTS aren't we, and the youth are HUNTING just as much as the mentor.

Lower and limit the number of auction tags. And regulate the percentage per species, ie: percentage of any given species in the auction pool and percentage of auction AND Expo tags vs. overall tags per species (5%?).

Limit buck deer and bull elk hunters annually to a choice of EITHER a General OR a Limited Entry hunt for each species.

Trying to draw lines on hunting equipment technology may be difficult, but drawing lines on the distribution of permits is much easier and more enforceable. You're either hunting in the right area during the right season with the right weapon per your permit or you're not!
 
My opinion Mz and Archery need to go one way or the other. This is general speaking throughout the West.

Example = most if not all I think ID archery hunts are compound bow.. the technology is in the bows to make a 70 yd broad side shot, but your sight capabilities are restricted.

My opinion it's like a bud taking a GUNWERKs rifle with a 3x9 scope and make a 1000 yd shot.

Either make it long bow
Hawken muzzloader
Factory rifle 3x9 scope

I guess my point is states need to embrace current technology or revert back to traditional type setups.

Cause in most states muzzy and archery weapons exceed there sighting options.

Yet buds still flip arrows and sling lead cause they think they're smokepole or stick flipper can make the shot....
 
"Trying to draw lines on hunting equipment technology may be difficult..."

Yep. People will still practice and try to make a 70 yard shot with a longbow.

It's not the equipment, it's the shooter behind it. Limiting across the board is group punishment only practiced by weaklings afraid to confront the problem.

The problem is glamorizing the inches an animal has. Not too many antlerless animals have been shot at 1000 yds, but plenty of bucks and bulls have been...
 
>My opinion Mz and Archery need
>to go one way or
>the other. This is general
>speaking throughout the West.
>
>Example = most if not all
>I think ID archery hunts
> are compound bow.. the
>technology is in the bows
>to make a 70 yd
>broad side shot, but your
>sight capabilities are restricted.
>
>My opinion it's like a bud
>taking a GUNWERKs rifle with
>a 3x9 scope and make
>a 1000 yd shot.
>
>Either make it long bow
>Hawken muzzloader
>Factory rifle 3x9 scope
>
>I guess my point is states
>need to embrace current technology
>or revert back to traditional
>type setups.
>
>Cause in most states muzzy and
>archery weapons exceed there sighting
>options.
>
>Yet buds still flip arrows and
>sling lead cause they think
>they're smokepole or stick flipper
>can make the shot....


What's your opinion on using .22's at night in city limits?
 

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