Wilderness Law

[grosventrehunter]

So let's hear it! What is everyone's thoughts, concerns, comments. I would like to address the TF on this issue and want to hear from others on the subject. I think most know where I stand on this subject. This should be something both NR/R can stand together on.

 

[Millsworks]

It does have plenty of supporters.
I can see how it can create areas for animals, and residents to escape crowds of nonresident hunters, creating a kind of sanctuary/ buffer zone.
But, when we are talking about federal land that supposedly belongs to all U.S. citizens.......
Doesn't seem right to exclude people from access, just for big game hunting.
That kinda sets up a monopoly for outfitters especially. Many times I am sure it causes a mass of hunters in certain areas, because people can't spread out like they should be able to.
I sure would like the wilderness law dropped. But apparently that's easier said than done.
It's sure been around longer than I thought was possible.

 

[nfh]

I get your frustration. You can camp, fish, hike, scout but cant hunt. As a resident the benefit i see is the low pressure. Its nice to be able to hit trails without a buttload of people. Take the bighorns for example, its literally a city up there

 

[Millsworks]

I hate not accessing areas I see on the map that look like great spots.
But I can see the good parts of the wilderness law. Sometimes anyway.......

 

[grizzly]

From other thread...

They (Wyoming Game Fish) have the right to manage R/NR allocations, outfitter licensing, tag quotas, pricing, etc... And if NR don't like it, they can apply elsewhere or move to WY and get residency.

But once the state issues the tag to a NR, I don't see the equity in forbidding licensed hunters from hunting solo on publicly-owned land (owned equally by ALL Americans, not just WY residents) that Resident hunters can legally hunt on their own.

And to the "safety" fallacy of the Wilderness Rule that doesn't apply to any activity outside of hunting...

Yeah, people never get lost or fall to their death in Utah. We can ignore all the people that die in the Uintas and Southern Utah (where the most desolate portions aren't Wilderness Areas), seemingly every year.

I'm just impressed with the innate ability that every Wyoming resident is born with (or acquires when the U-Haul pulls into town) that automatically makes them know how to survive in the mountains... they are even qualified to be Resident Guides for the hapless non-resident merely by their mailing address.

But even more impressive is the ability of grizzlies to identify non-residents so they know which people to maul!

 

[Cahunter805]

I get the idea for a resident to have some place that isn’t overrun with people. It’s definitely a valid point.
What makes no sense is giving outfitters a handout like that and singling out the NR along with it.
I doubt you will get rid of the outfitters from the wilderness so the only logical idea is NR can hunt it also.
If the wilderness is supposed to be a buffer/low impact area why not make it like some of the HMA and draw a certain number of permits per area for hunting.

 

[jm77]

The WL was never meant for residents to have a place to hunt without NR, it was pushed through the Legislature on the notion that NR need to be guided or outfitted in the wilderness due to safety issues, bears, etc. We all know this is ridiculous. Anyone who goes to the wilderness and is not prepared, is like a fool who spends his time fighting 90/10 on internet forums when he isn't a resident. I bet the vast majority of resident hunters don't even know about the law or care about it. It needs to go.

 

[GeorgeE]

Guess I’ve never really given it that much thought…So many other areas to hunt with great access, just have never seen the need! Just do the research…That and the friend/resident rule comes into affect if I were to need hunting access…

Is the rule fair, no…Do I-get all bent out of shape over it, nope!

 

[highfastflyer]

A compromise might be a hunter has to take a mandatory weekend 48 hour course costing $500 with an Outfitter where he teaches back country survival, wilderness communications options and participants practice using bear pepper spray and survival and defense. During the hunting season the hunter gets certified and signs up with the Outfitter who would be on call for Emergency search and rescue for like $300 per member using a fee like an Insurance Rescue policy. Only those certified by an Outfitter in that Wilderness area could enter and hunt during hunting season.

 

[grosventrehunter]

A compromise might be a hunter has to take a mandatory weekend 48 hour course costing $500 with an Outfitter where he teaches back country survival, wilderness communications options and participants practice using bear pepper spray and survival and defense. During the hunting season the hunter gets certified and signs up with the Outfitter who would be on call for Emergency search and rescue for like $300 per member using a fee like an Insurance Rescue policy. Only those certified by an Outfitter in that Wilderness area could enter and hunt during hunting season.

Dumb....

 

[highfastflyer]

Dumb....

We’ll see how dumb the Outfitters think it is shortly in the next few TF meetings. LMAO.

 

[Conrad8899]

A compromise might be a hunter has to take a mandatory weekend 48 hour course costing $500 with an Outfitter where he teaches back country survival, wilderness communications options and participants practice using bear pepper spray and survival and defense. During the hunting season the hunter gets certified and signs up with the Outfitter who would be on call for Emergency search and rescue for like $300 per member using a fee like an Insurance Rescue policy. Only those certified by an Outfitter in that Wilderness area could enter and hunt during hunting season.

U got to be joking right? We are trying to do away with outfitter welfare for heavens sake...

 

[highfastflyer]

U got to be joking right? We are trying to do away with outfitter welfare for heavens sake...

Certainly not a joke. I doubt it will go away anyway as Zero Outfitters would be in favour of it, this was just a small compromise to aid both parties. Many non hunting residents and NR also enjoy the buffer zone for the wildlife.

 

[Conrad8899]

I am a resident and would not support any $500 dollar welfare check for a NR to take a survival class with a outfitter for gods sake... What the hel makes a outfitter a professional survival expert any way? Its time the outfitters stand on there own and stop nursing of the State utter... Please stop with the buffer zones...

 

[SS!]

Dumb....

This is what happens when he shares his own thoughts. He should stick to quoting other people and articles…

 

[highfastflyer]

I am a resident and would not support any $500 dollar welfare check for a NR to take a survival class with a outfitter for gods sake... What the hel makes a outfitter a professional survival expert any way? Its time the outfitters stand on there own and stop nursing of the State utter... Please stop with the buffer zones...

If you ask most non- hunters how they feel about a buffer zone in Wilderness areas I think we both know the answer to that. Perhaps we should increase the scope of the Law and allow ZERO big game hunting in Wilderness areas, creating a BIG BUFFER ZONE.

 

[Conrad8899]

If you ask most non- hunters how they feel about a buffer zone in Wilderness areas I think we both know the answer to that. Perhaps we should increase the scope of the Law and allow ZERO big game hunting in Wilderness areas.

I do not no what the answer would be... U really think the outfitters will fall for this when they are booking hunts for thousands of dollars and U are offering them $500 and another $300 if they have to stop guiding paying customers to go rescue sum one else... U have to be nuts....

 

[highfastflyer]

I do not no what the answer would be... U really think the outfitters will fall for this when they are booking hunts for thousands of dollars and U are offering them $500 and another $300 if they have to stop guiding paying customers to go rescue sum one else... U have to be nuts....

They certainly might if they ran the numbers. Getting $800 X 100 NR hunters is a mere $80,000 and they didn’t even have to go pack anybody into the Wilderness. Easy money, maybe you should hurry out and get your Outfitting license.

 

[Conrad8899]

U go ahead and propose that at the next meeting please let us no how that works out for U.... No more outfitter welfare they can stand on there own.....

 

[diablo]

There’s just as much wilderness in a number of other states and no such restriction. It’s absolute crap! IMHO

 

[highfastflyer]

U go ahead and propose that at the next meeting please let us no how that works out for U.... No more outfitter welfare they can stand on there own.....

I won’t be asking for any changes. Realise the anti hunting groups are already working on getting hunting closed down in Wilderness areas. The 1964 Wilderness Act states that the Forest Service must manage designated wilderness as “An area where the earth and its community of life are untrammelled by man, retaining its primeval character and influence and which is protected and managed so as to preserve its natural conditions.” Insisting more hunters go stampeding and stomping around the Wilderness is just going to hasten their fight and remember most non hunting Residents and NR like wildlife Buffer Zones.

 

[BBB]

90/10, allow non-residents to make the choice to hunt their wilderness land without a guide when they draw their Wyoming tag.

 

[grizzly]

"Buffer Zone"... Really? With a straight face?

If that was what the WR was really about then leaving it in place while increasing Resident Tags (and thus people hunting in those "Buffer Zones") would make no sense.

Neither would the idea that Outfitters hunting with clients in those "Buffer Zones" somehow affect wildlife less.

I make a motion nobody is ever again allowed to use "Buffer Zone" in a discussion about the Wilderness Rule. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[highfastflyer]

"Buffer Zone"... Really? With a straight face?

If that was what the WR was really about then leaving it in place while increasing Resident Tags (and thus people hunting in those "Buffer Zones") would make no sense.

Neither would the idea that Outfitters hunting with clients in those "Buffer Zones" somehow affect wildlife less.

I make a motion nobody is ever again allowed to use "Buffer Zone" in a discussion about the Wilderness Rule. It's absolutely ridiculous.

You have to know the Wyoming history from where this derives. Realise ALL hunting by NR for deer, elk, bear and sheep was done only with the services of a guide from 1957 when the legislation passed until 1973. The law was challenged and changed but the Wilderness Act was gaining steam by then so Wyoming enacted the Wilderness area access restrictions which are still in place today and have been challenged in Courts but upheld. The bigger battle will be against the anti hunting community who want to STOP all hunting in Wilderness areas as the initial Wilderness Act promises to protect. Regarding buffer zones, that is a common known term in Wildlife management and many Government agencies call for the use of Buffer Zones. https://phys.org/news/2015-06-natural-wilderness-areas-buffer-zones.html

 

[WapitiBob]

jimss hijacked hff's account

 

[highfastflyer]

jimss hijacked hff's account

Nah, me and JIMS have opposing views on how much NR spend in Wyoming. LMAO.

 

[grizzly]

You have to know the Wyoming history from where this derives. Realise ALL hunting by NR for deer, elk, bear and sheep was done only with the services of a guide from 1957 when the legislation passed until 1973. The law was challenged and changed but the Wilderness Act was gaining steam by then so Wyoming enacted the Wilderness area access restrictions which are still in place today and have been challenged in Courts but upheld. The bigger battle will be against the anti hunting community who want to STOP all hunting in Wilderness areas as the initial Wilderness Act promises to protect. Regarding buffer zones, that is a common known term in Wildlife management and many Government agencies call for the use of Buffer Zones. https://phys.org/news/2015-06-natural-wilderness-areas-buffer-zones.html

I get the idea, but that's not the reason for the Wilderness Rule. If it is, then keep Residents out too.

Going 90/10, so that 90% of all tag holders (plus any of the 10% that hire a posse to take them) have unfettered access, clearly identifies that the Wilderness Rule is not about a Buffer Zone.

 

[jm77]

Once again lowslowloser attempts to ruin a good thread.

People, don't feed the troll!

 

[highfastflyer]

I get the idea, but that's not the reason for the Wilderness Rule. If it is, then keep Residents out too.

Going 90/10, so that 90% of all tag holders (plus any of the 10% that hire a posse to take them) have unfettered access, clearly identifies that the Wilderness Rule is not about a Buffer Zone.

Likely that will happen and sooner than you think as we lose our hunting heritage and the majority of citizens no longer hunt. There are currently several anti-hunting groups trying to ban ALL hunting in Wilderness areas. Then we will have a very BIG BUFFER ZONE for wildlife.

 

[grizzly]

Likely that will happen and sooner than you think as we lose our hunting heritage and the majority of citizens no longer hunt. There are currently several anti-hunting groups trying to ban ALL hunting in Wilderness areas. Then we will have a very BIG BUFFER ZONE for wildlife.

Then it wasn't very smart for WYOGA to identify the delineation of Wilderness Areas for hunting restrictions in the first place or the Wyoming Legislature to agree to it. As that will prove to be the gun that was turned around and used against themselves.

Wyoming should quickly undue the WR to make it clear that those areas are open to hunting by all. WYOGA has made Wilderness Areas the low-hanging fruit.

 

[highfastflyer]

Once again lowslowloser attempts to ruin a good thread.

People, don't feed the troll!

You can go steal another hot pocket from your mommy’s fridge then wander off to the basement of her single wide using her freely provided internet and troll away. We know you have nothing valuable to contribute.

 

[highfastflyer]

Then it wasn't very smart for WYOGA to identify the delineation of Wilderness Areas for hunting restrictions in the first place or the Wyoming Legislature to agree to it. As that will prove to be the gun that was turned around and used against themselves.

Wyoming should quickly undue the WR to make it clear that those areas are open to hunting by all. WYOGA has made Wilderness Areas the low-hanging fruit.

Whatever they decide will likely be of little or no importance if the Federal Judges trump them and order the Forest Service to follow the letter of the law of the Wilderness Act or the majority of non-hunting citizens want Congress to create that Big Wilderness Buffer Zone closing down all hunting in Wilderness areas. Obviously this TF is pro-hunting but future groups may not be so tolerant both on State and Federal levels. For now I doubt this TF as it is so dominated by Outfitters and large landowners will be willing to change as you seem to want and it now has nearly 50 years of historical designation. Opening it up for all with no restrictions would obviously cause the most disturbance of those pristine lands.

 

[BuzzH]

Whatever they decide will likely be of little or no importance if the Federal Judges trump them and order the Forest Service to follow the letter of the law of the Wilderness Act or the majority of non-hunting citizens want Congress to create that Big Wilderness Buffer Zone closing down all hunting in Wilderness areas. Obviously this TF is pro-hunting but future groups may not be so tolerant both on State and Federal levels. For now I doubt this TF as it is so dominated by Outfitters and large landowners will be willing to change as you seem to want and it now has nearly 50 years of historical designation. Opening it up for all with no restrictions would obviously cause the most disturbance of those pristine lands.

Have you ever even read the wilderness act?

If you have, you clearly don't comprehend it.

 

[ralphie]

I’m a resident and I’m for the wilderness law. I get the outfitter welfare part, but I like it as a perk for residents.

 

[highfastflyer]

Yes I actually have though my opinion is not what matters. There are a quite large group of anti-hunting groups trying to do radical proposals like shutting down all hunting in Wilderness areas. The Wilderness Act is increasingly being attacked and Legislation could certainly be passed with more restrictions or Judges with more liberal interpretations. Remember the far majority of citizens now no longer hunt. Just look at all the Court cases the Western states have been shut down due to the Federal Courts. Now a group is suing to stop all Wolf hunting by trapping and commercial hunting in Wilderness areas. Give them an inch they’ll take a mile.
“A coalition of groups has petitioned the Forest Service asking it to prohibit commercial hunting and trapping of wolves in wilderness areas in Montana and Idaho.

The move comes after both state Legislatures recently passed bills that would allow individuals to be paid to hunt and trap wolves in both states.

In essence, the groups claim, it’s bounty hunting and contrary to the the Wilderness Act.

They claim the new laws “will degrade wilderness character in these areas by authorizing direct and intentional predator-control actions aimed at eliminating or reducing wolf populations through, among other things, commercial activity.”

The petition specifically asks the Forest Service to enact:

• New measures to prohibit wolf hunting and trapping activities by private contractors in congressionally designated wilderness areas.

• New measures to prohibit wolf hunting and trapping activities by private individuals obtaining, seeking, or intending to seek reimbursement from any person, firm, or club for expenses incurred in such hunting and trapping activities, or seeking or intending to sell any part of hunted or trapped wolves.” https://www.sierraclub.org/press-re...ght-for-wolves-idaho-montana-wilderness-areas

 

[Bluehair]

CO just charges everyone a quarter to put in the rescue pot. I’m sure someone can spend a fortune to come up with a more complicated solution.

 

[hossblur]

We could really quickly end that law. The other 49 states could simply require Wyoming residents to hire guides to hunt in their state, period. Wilderness or otherwise.

And Wyoming based guides, have to hire guides, to guide in other states.

Afterall, the animals are the states.

Something tells me that overturns rather quickly

 

[SS!]

We could really quickly end that law. The other 49 states could simply require Wyoming residents to hire guides to hunt in their state, period. Wilderness or otherwise.

And Wyoming based guides, have to hire guides, to guide in other states.

Afterall, the animals are the states.

Something tells me that overturns rather quickly

?

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Everyone knows the wilderness law is total crap. Many residents tolerate or support it simply because it screws non-residents who they hate. I don't support denying anyone equal access to public land use. ---SS

 

[MTunderRadar]

I’m confused by some on here. Res want to be like other states and have a “more fair” 90/10 license allocation, but don’t want to be “more fair” like other states and allow NR to hunt Wilderness?

 

[jm77]

I’m confused by some on here. Res want to be like other states and have a “more fair” 90/10 license allocation, but don’t want to be “more fair” like other states and allow NR to hunt Wilderness?

I agree, you are confused.

 

[highfastflyer]

I’m confused by some on here. Res want to be like other states and have a “more fair” 90/10 license allocation, but don’t want to be “more fair” like other states and allow NR to hunt Wilderness?

It is two completely separate issues though I do understand your plight.

“t’s probably not my job to tell you life isn’t fair, but I figure you already know that. So instead, I’ll tell you that hope is precious, and you’re right not to give up on hope.


C.J. Redwine, Defiance

 

[highfastflyer]

We could really quickly end that law. The other 49 states could simply require Wyoming residents to hire guides to hunt in their state, period. Wilderness or otherwise.

And Wyoming based guides, have to hire guides, to guide in other states.

Afterall, the animals are the states.

Something tells me that overturns rather quickly

Change Alaska first then you can force Wyoming residents to hire a guide.

 

[hossblur]

Change Alaska first then you can force Wyoming residents to hire a guide.

Nah. We can start with WY

 

[heywouldya]

?

What's he smoking?

 

[muleylover]

The wilderness rule is dumb and unfair. Public lands are all public access, last time I checked Grizzly Bears don't know where the wilderness boundaries are. The deer unit we finally drew has a lot of wilderness and a lot of roadless areas, guess what? Also lots of grizzly bears. We will hunt the non wilderness, and I won't pay a guide to be a babysitter. We will be smart, keep a clean camp, and be prepared. I don't need a guide to educate me or watch over me.

 

[highfastflyer]

The wilderness rule is dumb and unfair. Public lands are all public access, last time I checked Grizzly Bears don't know where the wilderness boundaries are. The deer unit we finally drew has a lot of wilderness and a lot of roadless areas, guess what? Also lots of grizzly bears. We will hunt the non wilderness, and I won't pay a guide to be a babysitter. We will be smart, keep a clean camp, and be prepared. I don't need a guide to educate me or watch over me.

The Wyoming Outfitters and Guide Association (WYOGA). also want to keep you safe while hunting in Grizzly country and they have excess money to produce some helpful videos from all those paying clients so they are sharing this for your safety.

 

[appaloosa]

I've lived in Wyoming my whole life. Killed my biggest bull and my biggest buck outside of wilderness. If you guys can't sleep at night knowing someone else is hunting the wilderness and you can't, knock yourselves out. I'll be just fine.

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

That video just proves guide/outfittter or not if a bear wants ya it will get ya!! And yes I agree the law is inappropriate and not needed also same with Alaska for nonres and certain species!

 

[highfastflyer]

I've lived in Wyoming my whole life. Killed my biggest bull and my biggest buck outside of wilderness. If you guys can't sleep at night knowing someone else is hunting the wilderness and you can't, knock yourselves out. I'll be just fine.

Probably a good idea, only allow NR hunting for big game in Wilderness areas only so as to keep us residents safe from all those big fanged Grizzly. Residents can then safely hunt the non Wilderness areas all by ourselves and be safe.

 

[Chesterwyo]

I think the solution here is to only allow hunting with primitive weapons in wilderness areas.

 

[MTunderRadar]

Jm, my post was bait to showcase the extreme bias, selfishness, and lack of decorum by some. HFF, I have no plight, life is absolutely not fair, and hope is a beautiful part of life. None of them have anything to do with my post. Do whatever you do down there. So it takes me an extra year to draw a general tag that allows me to archery hunt 350+ bulls on public non-wilderness land. I have zero interest in your wilderness or the ridiculous rule, but any reasonable person can’t admit that it’s not dumb. Confusing, I know.

 

[highfastflyer]

Again, you're an idiot. No friends or have you ran them all off. Every village has at least one idiot and you're MM one and only. No wonder people don't take the village idiot seriously with his buffer zones. Poor little guy....

We all know who has no friends as Residents so he desperately tries to line up some NR twinks to go hiking the Hershey trail in the Wilderness areas. Again..... stealing another hot pocket from your mommy’s fridge then going down the basement of her single wide to troll away on her freely provided internet. Sad.... The Wilderness area has always been quite a good buffer zone of keeping out high hunting pressure.

 

[Muleyears]

has anyone ever seen a single wide with a basement??

 

[4blade]

If Wyo has to have the WL law then so be it...at least call it what it is! There would be a lot less disgruntled hunters if Wyo wasn't putting their BS spin on it.
Man up Wyo, we are not a bunch of idiot liberals!

 

[grizzly]

has anyone ever seen a single wide with a basement??

It even has a walkout

 

[hossblur]

It even has a walkout

View attachment 45854

That's so Wyoming 60mph "breeze" don't blow it over

 

[BrianID]

All of us know that the wilderness law is just "outfitter welfare".

If you residents want to reduce competition, why don't you pass a law that makes it illegal to guide hunters on public land?