Wildlife task force 90-10, etc.

The fun is just beginning.:cool::cool::cool:
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Even if Wyoming does get transferrable landowner tags the restrictions on landowner tags are pretty strict most wont ever see the open market they are going stright into outfitters hands not many small landowners in these parts. And very few landowner tags are given to each landowner i think 2 is max not sure on that
 
Bookhead said:
Even if Wyoming does get transferrable landowner tags the restrictions on landowner tags are pretty strict most wont ever see the open market they are going stright into outfitters hands not many small landowners in these parts. And very few landowner tags are given to each landowner i think 2 is max not sure on that
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You’re correct that they max the landowner at two. How they get around this is they “sell” 160 acres at a time to someone they know. I’ve seen it happen on a very small ranch in a prime elk/deer area in Wyoming. Historically the ranch received 2 elk deer and antelope. He sold off 320 acres to buddies so there is now 4 more landowner tags of each. The people that bought the land do not even have livestock. And two of them live out of state. Neither has done anything to the land they bought and I would doubt they could even point out the boundaries of their land. A lot of people would say what’s the big deal? But landowner tags come right out of the quota for the unit. So it’s been close to 80 elk and the same for deer tags taken from an area you as a resident might never draw in your lifetime.

I believe when you have land that is not currently receiving landowner tags and you apply for such the game warden for that area gives the yes/no. I don’t like this approach and I may be wrong on it, maybe someone who knows more about that portion of the process could chime in.
 
SS! said:
I believe when you have land that is not currently receiving landowner tags and you apply for such the game warden for that area gives the yes/no. I don’t like this approach and I may be wrong on it, maybe someone who knows more about that portion of the process could chime in.
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There is a qualifying method used that requires counting pellet groups in randomly placed transected circles. 2000 use days by the species is required.

It's obvious no landowner program is perfect, but as it is Wyoming's is one of the most conservative. I believe past properties that were never qualified, should be, and the process used with corporate owned land should be looked at. Minimum acres may need to be raised with a possible exception process for irrigated or cultivated land.

I would oppose any transferable tags. If even the two tags given are allowed transferable, numbers of landowner tags would double overnight because many landowners do not currently take the license they qualify for and they would if they could sell them.
 
jm77 said:
There is a qualifying method used that requires counting pellet groups in randomly placed transected circles. 2000 use days by the species is required.

It's obvious no landowner program is perfect, but as it is Wyoming's is one of the most conservative. I believe past properties that were never qualified, should be, and the process used with corporate owned land should be looked at. Minimum acres may need to be raised with a possible exception process for irrigated or cultivated land.

I would oppose any transferable tags. If even the two tags given are allowed transferable, numbers of landowner tags would double overnight because many landowners do not currently take the license they qualify for and they would if they could sell them.
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Thanks! I do recall now reading that somewhere before. I suppose in some areas the use is so obvious that they likely do not have to perform the qualifying method?

I agree I would hate to see transferable landowner tags too. But I look at who is on the TF and I can see the course to this being suggested. I hope I'm wrong.
 
jm77 said:
There is a qualifying method used that requires counting pellet groups in randomly placed transected circles. 2000 use days by the species is required.

It's obvious no landowner program is perfect, but as it is Wyoming's is one of the most conservative. I believe past properties that were never qualified, should be, and the process used with corporate owned land should be looked at. Minimum acres may need to be raised with a possible exception process for irrigated or cultivated land.

I would oppose any transferable tags. If even the two tags given are allowed transferable, numbers of landowner tags would double overnight because many landowners do not currently take the license they qualify for and they would if they could sell them.
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Heard something along the lines of having to have a full section which I would be in favor of, as SS mentioned about some land owners I believe I know where he’s talking, I’ve been past these land numerous times and tell ya the truth not sure how they justify the animals use days to said lands!! And I think landowners should have to do so much improvement each year that would benefit the animals that are said to be using these lands. Not sure I completely understand how landowners can cry damage to there lands and then deny access to hunters! Any way there land there rules but I don’t think they should be reimbursed for damage if not willing to let hunters help with the problem. At least the ones that respect the opportunity and lands!!
 
The meeting last night was fine. Nothing ground breaking either way. More or less just people voicing their opinions on a few issues. Surprised by the number of people not in support of 90/10 for anything. More in support than not but it was not unanimous by any means. A whole bunch of concern about youth opportunities. This I don't get at all. I think Wyo has fantastic youth opportunities. With Gen tags and special youth only dates in some units I don't think you could ask for more. A bunch of talk about implementing a waiting period after drawing a LQ tag. A whole bunch of people in support of this. The way it was brought up was a person suggesting that if you drew a hard to draw LQ tag you could not put in for that hard to draw LQ tag again for 5 years. This was supposed to reduce point creep. At first blush I don't think it would do that at all. It would simply cause people to jump from unit to unit. All in all, nothing that was not expected.

Josh and a man in attendance got into it. I don't recall the guys name but I see him at a lot of G&F meetings. He knows his **** and has some really solid thoughts on things. Josh got pissed at something he said. Tried calling him out on it and the guy hit back. Made me smile if nothing else.
 
mulecreek said:
The meeting last night was fine. Nothing ground breaking either way. More or less just people voicing their opinions on a few issues. Surprised by the number of people not in support of 90/10 for anything. More in support than not but it was not unanimous by any means. A whole bunch of concern about youth opportunities. This I don't get at all. I think Wyo has fantastic youth opportunities. With Gen tags and special youth only dates in some units I don't think you could ask for more. A bunch of talk about implementing a waiting period after drawing a LQ tag. A whole bunch of people in support of this. The way it was brought up was a person suggesting that if you drew a hard to draw LQ tag you could not put in for that hard to draw LQ tag again for 5 years. This was supposed to reduce point creep. At first blush I don't think it would do that at all. It would simply cause people to jump from unit to unit. All in all, nothing that was not expected.

Josh and a man in attendance got into it. I don't recall the guys name but I see him at a lot of G&F meetings. He knows his **** and has some really solid thoughts on things. Josh got pissed at something he said. Tried calling him out on it and the guy hit back. Made me smile if nothing else.
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Thanks for the update. That waiting period is interesting and something to ponder. I suppose on a few units it would increase the odds a bit.

Agree with you on the youth tags. There is plenty of opportunities for kids to get out there. I understand the issue around RS as the odds are terrible for the close antelope tags. But i don't know if there needs to be an allocation for youth regarding that.

Was there a lot of people at the meeting?
 
SS! said:
Was there a lot of people at the meeting?
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25+. More than I had expected. One NR. He born in Wyo and is the son of a former Outfitter from RS, I think it was VIc Dana's son.

More than anything I enjoy the discussion. Lots of opinions and ideas. Some aren't worth their weight in Sh!t, IMO. Like transferable PP's or transferable tags to relatives. Some give me something to think about. Like residents pick a region for Gen tags. I see both pros and cons but its an idea worth fleshing out.

The more I speak with him the more impressed I am with Sen. Hicks. He knows his stuff and has done his homework. He said it best at the end when he stated that its not 1980 anymore and Wyo residents have had it really good for a long time but that something needed to change. Much to agree with in that statement, just hard to figure out what needs to change.
 
I’ll have to agree with @mulecreek about the youth argument and the 90/10. They say that if there kids move away it would be hard for them to come back to Wyo for hunting opportunities. If they move away there probably not youth anymore. So as I see it take advantage of the all the great opportunities that Wyo has when there kids, then there is still a lot of opportunities out there where a grown kid could come back and hunt. Maybe not the well known areas but still there out there! I personally think something needs to be done with the draw system and no not any kind of points, preference, bonus, I think a waiting period would help some. @mulecreek is pretty knowledgeable on a lot of issues I personally never thought of. And the guy he mentioned, I’d say theY both got the right ideas!!
 
Also surprised at the amount of people against the 90/10 even it is just for the big 5, way to many go to nonres especially the mnt goat IMO, not much opportunities there as is and what nonres get is really sad!!
 
The number of people is what I expected but not what I would hope would show up especially with all the crying ya hear from people about things. Pretty much all the meetings that I’ve been to go this way.
 
I've got a 15 yr old and 13 yr old. Between D/E/A each of them have had no less than 3 tags each in their pocket each fall. This year they will have 4 each. Only one of which will be considered a "great" tag, oldest boy drew 102 deer. In their first three years of hunting these two have taken more big game animals than I had by age 30. Between school, sports and my work it gets darn hard to find time to go on all these hunts. Spoiled little brats don't realize how good they have it. Can't imagine what they would do with more opportunity.
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
The number of people is what I expected but not what I would hope would show up especially with all the crying ya hear from people about things. Pretty much all the meetings that I’ve been to go this way.
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Yes, agree.. I was there. I think I was the only one from Bridger Valley. Only recognized one person I knew there. Wish there would have been more people there.
Everybody complains about stuff but don't want to do anything about it
 
The 5 year waiting period seems like it would need to be fleshed out more as people would just jump to another area, especially if it’s just tied to a particular area, thus accomplishing nothing. It is already in place with moose, sheep but applies to any license drawn so they should do the same with deer/elk. Any limited quota would require a 5 year wait. Antelope is different as it is all limited quota. Another reason why antelope would be a good candidate for a resident preference point system. As a landowner of more than one section of land with good antelope numbers I would oppose transferable land tags. There is far too much abuse now with that and many prime areas we lose out as far too many licenses taken out of the area quota pool, especially in premium areas.
 
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Togwotee said:
Jesus christ this chit show is still going on ? normally these die out until one of the same douches starts the next one.

I've hunted in WY a lot over the years and I must have been really lucky because all the residents I've encountered have been decent folks. you'd never guess that if you only had this batch of narcissist for as a reference.

carry on you naughty little monkeys.
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So why does it make you so upset residents want to cut the tag allocation to 90/10 in Wyoming? I guess I can live with not being "decent folk" if it gives me, my family and friends better odds at drawing a tag here Wyoming.

I am definitely not against the NR hunter here in Wyoming and try to help when I can. I also hate that NR can't hunt in the wilderness areas of this great state, but keep supporting WYOGA they will make it all better.

Tell me again how Oregon treats NR and what you are doing to change it. Waiting....
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
Heard something along the lines of having to have a full section which I would be in favor of, as SS mentioned about some land owners I believe I know where he’s talking, I’ve been past these land numerous times and tell ya the truth not sure how they justify the animals use days to said lands!! And I think landowners should have to do so much improvement each year that would benefit the animals that are said to be using these lands. Not sure I completely understand how landowners can cry damage to there lands and then deny access to hunters! Any way there land there rules but I don’t think they should be reimbursed for damage if not willing to let hunters help with the problem. At least the ones that respect the opportunity and lands!!
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Couple of things here: almost half the state is deeded land and our wildlife depends on habitat. I think it's a little much to require a landowner who gets tags to do improvements to qualify. Also, if a landowner doesn't allow meaningful hunting, they cannot make damage claims. It's been that way a long time.
 
mulecreek said:
The meeting last night was fine. Nothing ground breaking either way. More or less just people voicing their opinions on a few issues. Surprised by the number of people not in support of 90/10 for anything. More in support than not but it was not unanimous by any means. A whole bunch of concern about youth opportunities. This I don't get at all. I think Wyo has fantastic youth opportunities. With Gen tags and special youth only dates in some units I don't think you could ask for more. A bunch of talk about implementing a waiting period after drawing a LQ tag. A whole bunch of people in support of this. The way it was brought up was a person suggesting that if you drew a hard to draw LQ tag you could not put in for that hard to draw LQ tag again for 5 years. This was supposed to reduce point creep. At first blush I don't think it would do that at all. It would simply cause people to jump from unit to unit. All in all, nothing that was not expected.

Josh and a man in attendance got into it. I don't recall the guys name but I see him at a lot of G&F meetings. He knows his **** and has some really solid thoughts on things. Josh got pissed at something he said. Tried calling him out on it and the guy hit back. Made me smile if nothing else.
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Thanks for being there Steve!

I expect that many who were opposed to 90/10 have connections to outfitters and guides and weren't saying it. I'm not sure why any resident, other than outfitters, would oppose a better allocation for residents.

Waiting periods will never work unless they are absolute; you draw a buck or bull tag and you wait x number of years for another, no exceptions. Even that way it could cause higher hunter density in general areas if the sportsman could buy general while they are waiting.

Last year my two grandsons took 9 big game animals between them in their first year of hunting Wyoming at 12 years old. This idea that some think we need more opportunity for youth is ridiculous. If a youth doesn't hunt DEA every year it's the adults fault. The easier we make it for youth, the fewer hardcore hunters we have in the next generation.

I guess it's obvious I will have much to comment about at the TF meetings.
 
jm77 said:
Couple of things here: almost half the state is deeded land and our wildlife depends on habitat. I think it's a little much to require a landowner who gets tags to do improvements to qualify. Also, if a landowner doesn't allow meaningful hunting, they cannot make damage claims. It's been that way a long time.
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Thanks, didn’t know that about the meaningful hunting and damage claims!!
 
jm77 said:
Thanks for being there Steve!

I expect that many who were opposed to 90/10 have connections to outfitters and guides and weren't saying it. I'm not sure why any resident, other than outfitters, would oppose a better allocation for residents.

Waiting periods will never work unless they are absolute; you draw a buck or bull tag and you wait x number of years for another, no exceptions. Even that way it could cause higher hunter density in general areas if the sportsman could buy general while they are waiting.

Last year my two grandsons took 9 big game animals between them in their first year of hunting Wyoming at 12 years old. This idea that some think we need more opportunity for youth is ridiculous. If a youth doesn't hunt DEA every year it's the adults fault. The easier we make it for youth, the fewer hardcore hunters we have in the next generation.

I guess it's obvious I will have much to comment about at the TF meetings.
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This post made me laugh due to i had a conversation with a guy at work today. His kids didnt draw deer or antelope. I asked what areas and they were tough areas to draw.. his solution was preference for residents. So I had to explain how his kids may wait several years to draw. I had a solution for him. Try more liberal areas, try leftover tags, try for general and blah blah blah. But for him its easier to complain and that his kids are getting ripped off.. problem is he is lazy and wanted premium tags to road hunt.

Here is my boy at 8 years old. Now 10. But this was over the counter tag. The fact he isnt old enough to hunt he was still able to participate. He helped spot the deer. He got to tell me which doe to shoot. Was a quick trip after work. I used a .243 that i won and gave it to my boys for a later day but he wanted me to use it. Learned patience after a shot and he got to do a short tracking job. Leanred importance of hunter orange.He got to learn how to indian quarter a deer. We made amazing jerky. If he was 12 he would of been the shooter. Only 2 years away till he gets to apply for tags and take advantage of the other opportunities.

I admire people that take kids hunting. I admire jim77 taking his grandkids. What a great time

2nd picture is when he was 5 or 6. Was a tropper sticking it out in the cold temps. 3rd picture is a antelope hunt with grandpa. Both kids got to participate

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grosventrehunter said:
So why does it make you so upset residents want to cut the tag allocation to 90/10 in Wyoming? I guess I can live with not being "decent folk" if it gives me, my family and friends better odds at drawing a tag here Wyoming.

I am definitely not against the NR hunter here in Wyoming and try to help when I can. I also hate that NR can't hunt in the wilderness areas of this great state, but keep supporting WYOGA they will make it all better.

Tell me again how Oregon treats NR and what you are doing to change it. Waiting....
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You wouldn’t want to hunt here………
 
hossblur said:
My question is always, how does a guy get so much time off work to attend countless meetings, and hunt as much as he claims? It's almost as if he's "working from home"?
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I'm heading up to Casper on the 8th for the second task force meeting.

I really like being able to flex my hours, days I work, paid holidays, comp time, and carrying over 240 hours of annual leave from year to year, use or lose leave balances are great too. Allows me to attend all the meetings I care to and hunt/fish all I want.

I also don't waste my leave on summer vacations either...like 99% of the rest of the world.

Choices...like I said, I make mine work for me.
 
BuzzH said:
I'm heading up to Casper on the 8th for the second task force meeting.

I really like being able to flex my hours, days I work, paid holidays, comp time, and carrying over 240 hours of annual leave from year to year, use or lose leave balances are great too. Allows me to attend all the meetings I care to and hunt/fish all I want.

I also don't waste my leave on summer vacations either...like 99% of the rest of the world.

Choices...like I said, I make mine work for me.
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What time is the meeting Buzz, I plan on bring there.
 
The hard truth is WY has an abundant resource compared to the population. The residents are lucky and should fight for their right to that resource. I can't wait for the moment I am a resident soon, and I am more than happy to contribute to the economy of a state I actually love compared to some a$$ **** state like I live in now!
 
If you are a concerned nonres and have years of applications and $ invested into the Wyo pref pt system....especially for the Big 5 species you can submit comments directly to the Task Force for the July 8th meeting. You must do this by 5:00 pm on July 6th!

90:10 would cut nonres limited tags in 1/2 and require twice as long for ALL nonres to draw tags. For the Big 5 this would likely mean that those that don't have max pts or close to max pts may never draw tags. Nonres that have invested years and $ into a draw system will suddenly have the light switch flipped off with these changes!

The more nonres willing to comment, the more attention will be given to nonres at this and other meetings!. There are no nonres members on the Task Force even though nonres stand to loose so much with decisions made! Sending comments is the only voice you have unless you attend one of their meetings.

Here's a link to submit your comments: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input
 
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jims has been all over the world wide web today rallying the nonresident troops... But did not say a whole lot when there was talk of Colorado cutting nonresident tags... In fact I think he was called out for is lack of support for us nonresidents of Colorado on this website.... I have said this before its just a matter of time before Colorado goes all LQ elk and cuts the nonresidents tags. In fact it should of been done by now Colorado or any other State should take care of its residents first and fore most...
 
I think it would be great to have a small % of the Non-Resident tags be allocated to NR youth. If that % is not met with youth, give them to adults who applied.

Today, NR youth draw in the same pool as all the other adult NR's. The reduced NR youth fees are nice as they are today vs adult NR prices.
 
copple2 said:
I think it would be great to have a small % of the Non-Resident tags be allocated to NR youth. If that % is not met with youth, give them to adults who applied.

Today, NR youth draw in the same pool as all the other adult NR's. The reduced NR youth fees are nice as they are today vs adult NR prices.
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Nope...to the first idea. No youth set asides and I'll oppose it even for Residents.

Yes, its a good idea to keep youth prices lower to allow NR/R families to hunt together at an affordable price. I would oppose anything that changes that.
 
BuzzH said:
Nope...to the first idea. No youth set asides and I'll oppose it even for Residents.

Yes, its a good idea to keep youth prices lower to allow NR/R families to hunt together at an affordable price. I would oppose anything that changes that.
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Why "nope" to the first? I'm genuinely curious.
 
copple2 said:
Why "nope" to the first? I'm genuinely curious.
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I’m curious why you think the youth should get an allocation? Does a 12 year old really comprehend how special a sheep tag is? Will they even have the time to go chase moose with school and sports? Also WY youth can already draw a moose or sheep tag already under the random draw.
 
copple2 said:
Why "nope" to the first? I'm genuinely curious.
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Because giving kids easy success in quality areas does no good in making life long hunters out of them.

Its been tried all over the West and we aren't seeing any increase in kids sticking with hunting because they got to hunt a great youth area.

Plus, IMO/E the parents end up making it about them rather than the youth hunter...and that means only allowing them to shoot something that the parent would be willing to take.

Its a chitshow from stem to stern...and does way more harm than good. Parents need to quit thinking their little johnnie and Janie are "special"...they aren't.

Plus, there's all kinds of opportunity for youth already. If a youth isn't hunting a bunch every year its because of their parents, not because of lack of opportunity. Every state has tons of opportunity for small game, waterfowl, predators, varmints, upland birds, etc. etc.

What gets them to become lifelong hunters is lots of hunting, all kinds of hunting, not drawing a special, one off, big-game tag early.
 
Let's not jump to conclusions on moose or sheep tags, SS. I could have been more clear. I'm talking general deer and antelope and elk. We don't apply for the other species in WY. In my experience, getting tags in my kids hands of any kind has been a good experience. And I'd give up a little of my opportunity to them.

Buzz, I love to get my kids out in the field. Not sure where your info comes from on getting kids out more not resulting in them sticking with hunting. Just doesn't sound logical to me. But I'd love to see the data if that's truly the case. I want to get them out as much as possible. I'd much rather see them draw a tag than myself. Would I give up a little but of my chance to draw for them? You bet. I guess my only selfish intention is that I hope they love it when they are older. But they will get to choose that for themselves.

We chase critters all year, in a handful of states, and we have been fortunate enough to hunt in WY several times for antelope and deer. Looking at my 2 youngest kids that aren't old enough to hunt big game yet, I can only hope they get to hunt the beautiful state of WY half as much as my 2 older ones have.

But regardless, you boys are entitled to your opinions. Doesn't mean they are any more right than mine. Just a little different.
 
copple2 said:
Let's not jump to conclusions on moose or sheep tags, SS. I could have been more clear. I'm talking general deer and antelope and elk. We don't apply for the other species in WY. In my experience, getting tags in my kids hands of any kind has been a good experience. And I'd give up a little of my opportunity to them.

Buzz, I love to get my kids out in the field. Not sure where your info comes from on getting kids out more not resulting in them sticking with hunting. Just doesn't sound logical to me. But I'd love to see the data if that's truly the case. I want to get them out as much as possible. I'd much rather see them draw a tag than myself. Would I give up a little but of my chance to draw for them? You bet. I guess my only selfish intention is that I hope they love it when they are older. But they will get to choose that for themselves.

We chase critters all year, in a handful of states, and we have been fortunate enough to hunt in WY several times for antelope and deer. Looking at my 2 youngest kids that aren't old enough to hunt big game yet, I can only hope they get to hunt the beautiful state of WY half as much as my 2 older ones have.

But regardless, you boys are entitled to your opinions. Doesn't mean they are any more right than mine. Just a little different.
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Sorry I assumed since the 90/10 talked about the big 5 that’s what you were referring to.

Luckily WY is a state that even as a non resident you can get tags for your kids every year.

Also there’s a problem when you make a new hunt. People flock to it because it’s new. There’s the limited quota mentality that because it’s a draw it’s good. Unless you really pump up the amount of tags the youth only hunts are going to have terrible odds.

Youth only tags are a slippery slope. Then the military vets want tags, old people want tags etc. I’m sorry you chose to sign up for the military we shouldn’t have to kiss your ass and give you tags. Sorry not sorry. Plenty of type 2 tags out there that are easy to draw and can be filled. I always laugh when they want to make the youth hunts in the trophy units. If it’s really about the youth and you’re going to make a youth hunt why does it have to be in the trophy areas???
 
SS! said:
Sorry I assumed since the 90/10 talked about the big 5 that’s what you were referring to.

Luckily WY is a state that even as a non resident you can get tags for your kids every year.

Also there’s a problem when you make a new hunt. People flock to it because it’s new. There’s the limited quota mentality that because it’s a draw it’s good. Unless you really pump up the amount of tags the youth only hunts are going to have terrible odds.

Youth only tags are a slippery slope. Then the military vets want tags, old people want tags etc. I’m sorry you chose to sign up for the military we shouldn’t have to kiss your ass and give you tags. Sorry not sorry. Plenty of type 2 tags out there that are easy to draw and can be filled. I always laugh when they want to make the youth hunts in the trophy units. If it’s really about the youth and you’re going to make a youth hunt why does it have to be in the trophy areas???
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I agree with you on the trophy areas and the big 5. Those are hard enough to get as it is.

My kids are just as excited to draw a cow elk tag or go on an OTC turkey hunt as much as they are when they draw a buck tag somewhere. I think we have more fun on antelope hunts than anything else...and we only hunt 1 point NR lope units at that (well, more like 2 points this year!).
 
copple2 said:
I agree with you on the trophy areas and the big 5. Those are hard enough to get as it is.

My kids are just as excited to draw a cow elk tag or go on an OTC turkey hunt as much as they are when they draw a buck tag somewhere. I think we have more fun on antelope hunts than anything else...and we only hunt 1 point NR lope units at that (well, more like 2 points this year!).
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Yeah the antelope tag reductions hurt this year. Antelope hunting was made for kids no doubt. I think point creep and tag reduction has a lot of people sitting out unexpectedly this year. Hope for mild winters!!!
 
Most guys here that are older grow up poor. We needed meat to survive. Our parents instilled in us how important a successful hunt was. That's where our roots come from.
Jmo...regardless youth opportunity now will never give a kid the drive we have unless the parents step up! It takes a real life teacher!
 
SS! said:
Sorry I assumed since the 90/10 talked about the big 5 that’s what you were referring to.

Luckily WY is a state that even as a non resident you can get tags for your kids every year.

Also there’s a problem when you make a new hunt. People flock to it because it’s new. There’s the limited quota mentality that because it’s a draw it’s good. Unless you really pump up the amount of tags the youth only hunts are going to have terrible odds.

Youth only tags are a slippery slope. Then the military vets want tags, old people want tags etc. I’m sorry you chose to sign up for the military we shouldn’t have to kiss your ass and give you tags. Sorry not sorry. Plenty of type 2 tags out there that are easy to draw and can be filled. I always laugh when they want to make the youth hunts in the trophy units. If it’s really about the youth and you’re going to make a youth hunt why does it have to be in the trophy areas???
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Pretty shitty attitude toward the veterans. You’re a real POS
 
lostinOregon said:
Veterans don’t get a bunch of welfare. They deserve everything they get. You get to have your opinion and free speech because of them.

Rich
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Mmmm kay. We will agree to disagree. Feel free to PM me about it if you want. Keep the focus on 90/10 please…
 
SS! said:
I’m sorry you chose to sign up for the military we shouldn’t have to kiss your ass and give you tags. Sorry not sorry.
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion in this free country we live in but you couldn’t come across as a bigger D-bag than you did with this statement. If that is how you truly feel then I can only hope you run across a physically disabled vet someday and go right up to them and say “I don’t feel sorry for you, you signed up for it.” Let’s hear the story on how that goes. Or are you only this tough hiding behind a keyboard?
 
Booner said:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion in this free country we live in but you couldn’t come across as a bigger D-bag than you did with this statement. If that is how you truly feel then I can only hope you run across a physically disabled vet someday and go right up to them and say “I don’t feel sorry for you, you signed up for it.” Let’s hear the story on how that goes. Or are you only this tough hiding behind a keyboard?
Click to expand...
I’ve came acrossed many and took a few hunting too. In fact one disabled vet has taken 3 Alaskan moose with me and a few caribou too. And I set him up with a buddy to go sheep hunting this year.

Not to mention the helmets to hard hat program my company is a part of. So yeah really if you want to discuss it further send me some PMs. I’ll even gladly give you some phone numbers of some vets you can talk to about their hunts with me. Put up or shut up. What have you done? Send me a PM. ??
 
I’ve came acrossed many and took a few hunting too. In fact one disabled vet has taken 3 Alaskan moose with me and a few caribou too. And I set him up with a buddy to go sheep hunting this year.
SS! said:
Not to mention the helmets to hard hat program my company is a part of. So yeah really if you want to discuss it further send me some PMs. I’ll even gladly give you some phone numbers of some vets you can talk to about their hunts with me. Put up or shut up. What have you done? Send me a PM. ??
Click to expand...
What have I done?
I’ve knocked on the door of a mother’s home to tell her that her son and another Marine were killed in Afghanistan. I’ve been to my cousins funeral when he was killed in Iraq on Christmas Eve. While your actions are likely much appreciated, your tone couldn’t come across more the opposite. Not once did I think “well, they signed up for it.”
 
copple2 said:
I agree with you on the trophy areas and the big 5. Those are hard enough to get as it is.

My kids are just as excited to draw a cow elk tag or go on an OTC turkey hunt as much as they are when they draw a buck tag somewhere. I think we have more fun on antelope hunts than anything else...and we only hunt 1 point NR lope units at that (well, more like 2 points this year!).
Click to expand...
No reason to set up special youth hunts to do that...and that's my point.

Sounds to me like you and your kids are doing just fine without any special set asides for youth.

The problems with set asides, is pretty soon everyone wants set asides.

No chit, there was a group of guys that all own airstream campers that wanted their own set aside of pronghorn tags for their airstream club...

We already have 80 pronghorn tags going to a one shot hunt and another 80 going to a womens only hunt now...

Where does it end?
 
This is the main problem with youth only tags and it is well documented in the research. Most often, we are PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. We’re giving the kids of folks who already hunt about 80 percent of this new youth opportunity, rather than reaching new audiences. Most of the avid hunting family kids will remain hunters without the youth tags and we dont really recruit new hunters.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it/
 
I haven't been on here in a long time.

I have been catching up a little bit in the last few days. SS I have found I tend to agree with you far more then I disagree with you for sure, but your comment about vets was out of line. I actually tend to laugh at many of your comments and find your style of humor sits well with mine, but not this time.

I agree with you no set aside tags for vets, but your way of saying it was in very bad taste. I hope you re read that comment and retract that statement, as sometimes we say or do things that maybe didn't come across the right way. I hope that this was one of those times.
 
highfastflyer said:
This is the main problem with youth only tags and it is well documented in the research. Most often, we are PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. We’re giving the kids of folks who already hunt about 80 percent of this new youth opportunity, rather than reaching new audiences. Most of the avid hunting family kids will remain hunters without the youth tags and we dont really recruit new hunters.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it/
Click to expand...
highfastflyer said:
This is the main problem with youth only tags and it is well documented in the research. Most often, we are PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. We’re giving the kids of folks who already hunt about 80 percent of this new youth opportunity, rather than reaching new audiences. Most of the avid hunting family kids will remain hunters without the youth tags and we dont really recruit new hunters.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it/
Click to expand...
Quoting an Outdoor Life article? The haven’t been the same for a long time, definitely not since Bonnier sale anyway. Now owned bya New York hedge fund led by a couple of your beloved Hershey trail hikers.
highfastflyer said:
This is the main problem with youth only tags and it is well documented in the research. Most often, we are PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. We’re giving the kids of folks who already hunt about 80 percent of this new youth opportunity, rather than reaching new audiences. Most of the avid hunting family kids will remain hunters without the youth tags and we dont really recruit new hunters.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-are-losing-hunters-and-how-to-fix-it/
Click to expand...
 
BuzzH said:
I'm heading up to Casper on the 8th for the second task force meeting.

I really like being able to flex my hours, days I work, paid holidays, comp time, and carrying over 240 hours of annual leave from year to year, use or lose leave balances are great too. Allows me to attend all the meetings I care to and hunt/fish all I want.

I also don't waste my leave on summer vacations either...like 99% of the rest of the world.

Choices...like I said, I make mine work for me.
Click to expand...


Sure.

Because no one knows the FS ain't been in office for over a year.

Wuhan has been great for some.

Others, pack your weight
 
Ugggh! I am agreeing with SS a lot as well.

There is no reason at all to divide hunters into any groups beyond resident and nonresident. No special groups at all…
No preference for vets, no preference for active military, no preference for law enforcement, first responders, firemen, trans etc. Even youth! It I should be straight across the board random odds for everyone.
The only way I would consider any youth preference would be on cow and doe tags only. Say something like the 1st 20% of the cow/doe tags set aside for youth first. But, that is not necessary in WY at all in our current setting.

Transferable tags are absolutely the worst ideas ever. There should not be any such thing. It will destroy any access programs we currently have and will absolutely gut any future possibilities. It will also raise land prices and cost to a point where many locals will sell out to wealthy out of state owners. Forever changing the state. (Yes already happening, but the money will make it worse).


instead we should focus specifically on pumping up and funding the Access YES program to the max. Making the states offering so great that landowners are on a waiting list to sign up. That the benefits can match the potential profits from private leasing.

I am planning to be in Casper on the 8th.
 
Savage110 said:
Quoting an Outdoor Life article? The haven’t been the same for a long time, definitely not since Bonnier sale anyway. Now owned bya New York hedge fund led by a couple of your beloved Hershey trail hikers.
Click to expand...
Sure, merely reporting a study compiled by the USFWS can be done from anywhere, and they have more resources than many small states.
“Hunter numbers have steadily declined since 1982. We lost 2.2 million hunters between 2011 and 2016 alone, according to the National Survey of Hunting, Fishing, and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, a report issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. In 2016, just 11.5 million people hunted. That’s less than 4 percent of the national population.”:sick::devilish::sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
 
SS! said:
FYI disabled vets can hunt at least 5 days early in WY on whatever tag they draw.
Click to expand...
Well we can all read between the lines with your contempt for veterans but at least give accurate info…”has a central visual acuity disability, is quadriplegic, upper extremity disabled, paraplegic, permanently paralyzed over at least fifty (50%) percent of their body or otherwise physically disabled so as to be permanently confined to a wheelchair (or similar device). The permit is also available to a disabled veteran with at least a one hundred (100) percent disability evidenced by a letter from the United States Department of Veteran Affairs.” It is only good for deer, elk, or antelope. You must live a pretty pathetic life if this is the battle you have to wage.
 
Booner said:
Well we can all read between the lines with your contempt for veterans but at least give accurate info…”has a central visual acuity disability, is quadriplegic, upper extremity disabled, paraplegic, permanently paralyzed over at least fifty (50%) percent of their body or otherwise physically disabled so as to be permanently confined to a wheelchair (or similar device). The permit is also available to a disabled veteran with at least a one hundred (100) percent disability evidenced by a letter from the United States Department of Veteran Affairs.” It is only good for deer, elk, or antelope. You must live a pretty pathetic life if this is the battle you have to wage.
Click to expand...
Cool story bro. What battle am I waging? I just thought I would post some info many do not know. So go back under the rock you came. Thanks! Feel free to PM.
 
quest said:
My brothers a vet he was on hamburger hill and he’s in two books. He’s never ask for any special treatment.
Click to expand...
Dang! A separate thread would be interesting to read. I’m sure there’s a lot of interesting stories from forum members.

Back to 90/10 it looks like there’s going to be a strong showing on the 8th! Great news! Please keep us updated. Thanks!
 
highfastflyer said:
Sure, merely reporting a study compiled by the USFWS can be done from anywhere, and they have more resources than many small states.
“Hunter numbers have steadily declined since 1982. We lost 2.2 million hunters between 2011 and 2016 alone, according to the National Survey of Hunting, Fishing, and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, a report issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. In 2016, just 11.5 million people hunted. That’s less than 4 percent of the national population.”:sick::devilish::sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
Click to expand...

Yet tags sell out every year! Last year was ridiculous, people frick’n everywhere, virus or not…
 
307hunter comments and ideas on the current TF meetings. I don’t agree with some of these ideas but I think he is trying to come up with solutions to long term plaguing problems.

”
Taskforce Strategy and Issue Thoughts
- First priority for the Taskforce should be to increase Resident Hunter opportunities. This begins with 90/10 (or better) for all big game tag allocation and includes resident preference for leftover tags.

- How this plays into preference points for the Big 5 (Sheep, Goat, Bison, Grizzly, Moose) and limited quota deer/elk and all antelope is where it gets tricky. If I understand correctly, currently for Sheep, Goat, Bison and Moose, 75% of resident hunter tags are awarded by preference points, and 25% are awarded by random draw. The problem is for many of these hunt areas and species, is it takes 10+ years to draw currently, and with point creep, this duration keeps increasing. Perhaps the most equitable way to allocate these tags would be to go to 100% random draw and then prevent those getting a tag from applying again for several years .... but this would be unfair to those who have been putting in for years to build their preference points. My best guess is the TF will recommend increasing the random draw percentage, and if it goes to 100%, somehow building in a transition period for those who currently have significant preference points.

- Resident preference points for deer, antelope and elk will be another issue to discuss. Right now the resident draw from these limited quota tags is random ... but some would like to implement a preference point system. Because of point creep and declining deer and antelope populations, I'm against that, but at the same time I'm sympathetic with those who put in year after year under the current system and never get lucky enough to draw - especially when they hear stories from the lucky hunters who somehow draw limited quota deer/antelope/elk tags year after year. Perhaps a solution is to keep the system random, but if you do draw a tag one year, you are ineligible to put in for the same tag for next year, or two, or three - depending on the popularity of the unit.

Landowner tags and nonresident tag set asides for outfitters - That the Taskforce is stacked with outfitters and stockgrowers means these issues are going to come up as a bargaining chip for 90/10 for elk, deer and antelope. This may surprise you, but I personally don't care how much money landowners and outfitters make from nonresident hunters - as long as resident hunter opportunity is maximized.

  • Outfitter Nonresident Tag Set Asides - The Outfitting Industry is perhaps the oldest of Wyoming's industries, and it has a proud history. I'm not interested in putting any outfitters of business. While many resident hunters oppose outfitter tag set asides, I don't. Several other states have these (Idaho, NM) and I don't care if a significant portion nonresident hunters have to hire an outfitter. In fact, the 2020 90/10 bill, SF94, included a 30% nonresident tag outfitter set aside. But for some bizarre reason, Sy and the WYOGA still opposed the bill and Sen. Hicks said he lost several senators' support because it included the set aside. (Many resident hunters absolutely hate outfitters ... ). From my perspective, if we can get 90/10 for deer, antelope and elk, I'd happily compromise on outfitter set asides. You may disagree.
  • Landowner Tags - This one is more tricky. The question for me is if landowners are allowed to transfer (i.e. "sell") their landowner tags, will this decrease resident hunter access to private land? I'm somewhat out of touch with the frustration Eastern Wyoming residents have with access as I've lived my entire life in Western Wyoming - which has plenty of public land. My guess is however, that few eastern Wyoming landowners currently allow resident hunters access for free, and what access there is comes from the G&F's "Access Yes" program. If my assumption is right, perhaps a compromise is to allow landowners to sell their tags, but .... (1) require the person or outfitter purchasing the tag to pay the appropriate G&F licensing fee; and (2) Apply a 25% "Access" Tax to the sale price. This "Access Tax" would go to the G&F Department's "Access Yes" fund to purchase Access for resident hunters. So ... if a landowner sold his/her landowner elk tag to an outfitter for $10,000, and the outfitter sold a hunt package to a nonresident hunter for $12,000, that nonresident hunter would have to pay the G&F $2,000 (or whatever the regular elk limited quota tag price was), plus the Landowner would owe the G&F a 25% "Access Tax" - or $2,500. This is just one idea to get the conversation moving.

Lodging Industry - The Wyoming Chamber of Commerce opposed this year's 90/10 Bill, SF103, because of concerns from the lodging and restaurant industry because of the possible economic impacts from fewer do-it-yourself nonresident elk, and (especially), antelope hunters. How much 90/10 would actually decrease these DIY hunters and how much they spend in motels, restaurants and sporting goods stores is not clear. We expect the Outfitters and Lodging industry to come forward with a fancy economic study with some outlandish numbers. My response: (1) Montana's, Idaho's, Arizona's, Utah's, Washington's, Oregon's, New Mexico's and Nevada's lodging and restaurant industries are doing just fine under 90/10 allocation; (2) Resident hunters support Wyoming's restaurants and sporting good stores year-round; (3) The lodging industry doesn't contribute anything to wildlife ... so how about a 1% additional state-wide lodging tax where all the funds raised go to the G&F Department general fund?

Commissioner Tags - We're on the record against all the Commissioner and Governor Tags. In my opinion, all money raised from the sale of wildlife tags should go to the G&F Department General Fund. Combined, the Commissioner and Governor Tags generate approximately $1.8 million per year. I believe these tags should be auctioned by the department itself and the revenue kept at the department.
www.307hunter.com

Leftover Tag Outrage, Next Task Force Meeting — 307Hunter.com

Leftover Tag Outrage Today was the final day we could put in for the Leftover tag draw and nothing demonstrates the lack of respect for Wyoming resident hunters amongst the Game & Fish Commission, Game & Fish Leadership (Nesvik), Governor and Legislature like Wyoming's leftover tag
www.307hunter.com www.307hunter.com
 
highfastflyer said:
Sure, merely reporting a study compiled by the USFWS can be done from anywhere, and they have more resources than many small states.
“Hunter numbers have steadily declined since 1982. We lost 2.2 million hunters between 2011 and 2016 alone, according to the National Survey of Hunting, Fishing, and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, a report issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. In 2016, just 11.5 million people hunted. That’s less than 4 percent of the national population.”:sick::devilish::sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
Click to expand...
Less hunters but more applications in every state. How is this possible? Or perhaps it is bad reporting.
 
Savage110 said:
Less hunters but more applications in every state. How is this possible? Or perhaps it is bad reporting.
Click to expand...
Because every swinging Johnson is applying for 2, 3, 5, 10 states a year.

I never hunted outside Montana until 1995 since then I've hunted/fished and/or applied in ID, MT, WY, CO, NM, AZ, UT, OR, WA, IL, AK, TX, ND, SD, NV, British Columbia...probably missed a state or two.

How much did your Dad hunt as a NR?

My Grandfather never hunted a state other than Montana (except he did hunt roe deer in Europe during WWII) his whole life.

My Dad never applied for or hunted a state other than Montana until I moved to Wyoming (his first NR hunt was in 2002).

My Brother never applied for or hunted a State other than Montana until I moved here either (also 2002).

I apply my nephews in AZ, WY, MT, and get them points in a couple others.

That's why and how hunter numbers can decrease while applications increase.
 
GeorgeE said:
I know NV and I believe we did also, had record breaking numbers of Hunting and Fishing Licenses sold…
Click to expand...
Like many of the states in the West, a mass migration out of California into all other Western states. Real Estate prices in Idaho, Utah, Co, NV. and others skyrocket.o_Oo_Oo_O
 
Savage110 said:
Less hunters but more applications in every state. How is this possible? Or perhaps it is bad reporting.
Click to expand...
Pew also reports on the USFWS but don’t listen to them, they might be reporting Fake news. LMAO.

“Hunters in the United States numbered nearly 17 million in 1980. By 2016, the number had fallen to 11.5 million, according to data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.”

Some states have Huge increased license demand, especially in the West as hunters flood out of California to other surrounding Western states. Most states however are Decreasing. The pandemic also caused a short term surge and interest. Overall though we have less hunters nationwide. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/12/14/the-pandemic-created-new-hunters-states-need-to-keep-them?amp=1
 
Having spent some time around JM77's grandsons...not only are they fine sportsmen, they're some of the most polite and respectful young men I've ever been around.

Same as my nephews...
 
Nephew 2...also a stone cold killer, runs cross country, and also a straight A student.

These kids are set...both will inherit all my rifles, mounts, hunting stuff, and 7 figures each in the bank to hunt with the rest of their lives. They won't have to worry about 90-10, preference points, and all that crap like I did. College is in the bag as well...both will get scholarships no question about it. Uncle Buzz and Aunt Pat have them covered with 529's for anything they can't cover with scholarships.

Fine woodsmen, both....

IMG_20201120_165751029.jpg


8DE5D8AA-2576-4697-898E-AFB43C05FFFA.jpg


photo0_7.jpg


photo0.jpg


1014161801.jpg
 
Sad but true? Yes

BTW. I do agree that the big 5 should be 90/10 with some short term solutions for NR with high point counts
 
Last edited:
when did they start giving our youth ram tags treedagain? You killed a baby. Did they use a ewe form for the mount?
 
I remember the older guys in Utah thinking Utah would always be rural, small population, economy based on resource extraction.

Then it changes, fairly fast.

I was Buzz's nephews age when I could get OTC tags, hunt OTC elk, pheasants in town, etc, etc, etc.

Now Utah kids can't draw deer every other year.

Wyoming is about 15-20 years behind Utah, just as we are that behind Colorado.

JM and Buzz ain't the future of our sport. They are the tail end. Neither would quit if they didn't draw, but kids do. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

BTW. I'm not Buzz biggest fan, but taking shots at "gene pools", is chicken ****.
 
hossblur said:
I remember the older guys in Utah thinking Utah would always be rural, small population, economy based on resource extraction.

Then it changes, fairly fast.

I was Buzz's nephews age when I could get OTC tags, hunt OTC elk, pheasants in town, etc, etc, etc.

Now Utah kids can't draw deer every other year.

Wyoming is about 15-20 years behind Utah, just as we are that behind Colorado.

JM and Buzz ain't the future of our sport. They are the tail end. Neither would quit if they didn't draw, but kids do. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

BTW. I'm not Buzz biggest fan, but taking shots at "gene pools", is chicken ****.
Click to expand...
That's unfortunate (bolded part) and in cases like that I reserve the right to change my mind on tag allocations for youth.

If I lived in Utah, I'd be applying them for antlerless tags, hunting birds and small game and doing some traveling to hunt.

But, keep in mind, this is about WYOMING...
 
hossblur said:
I remember the older guys in Utah thinking Utah would always be rural, small population, economy based on resource extraction.

Then it changes, fairly fast.

I was Buzz's nephews age when I could get OTC tags, hunt OTC elk, pheasants in town, etc, etc, etc.

Now Utah kids can't draw deer every other year.

Wyoming is about 15-20 years behind Utah, just as we are that behind Colorado.

JM and Buzz ain't the future of our sport. They are the tail end. Neither would quit if they didn't draw, but kids do. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

BTW. I'm not Buzz biggest fan, but taking shots at "gene pools", is chicken ****.
Click to expand...
I did not take a shot about gene pools, but I would consider taking one at BUZZ. I would make an exception for him.

Are you forgetting this is the guy that gets personal in nature with anybody and everybody that disagrees with him. In fact, didn’t he or SS rip on you for working hard in your life, suffering an injury, and having nothing to show for it (sorry if that is someone else). Hard to get more personal than that. Besides, He has reminded us many times of his thick skin so what’s the problem.

I don’t think those kids are his gene pool because they don’t look like him and he said they were polite and respectful. That’s why I know they don’t come from the same family.

If you are going to constantly place yourself on a pedestal and act so self righteous it makes people gag, while at the same time personally degrading everybody that disagrees with you, …..you better be ready for just about anything coming back at you.

That’s how I see it
 
excavator said:
I did not take a shot about gene pools, but I would consider taking one at BUZZ. I would make an exception for him.

Are you forgetting this is the guy that gets personal in nature with anybody and everybody that disagrees with him. In fact, didn’t he or SS rip on you for working hard in your life, suffering an injury, and having nothing to show for it (sorry if that is someone else). Hard to get more personal than that. Besides, He has reminded us many times of his thick skin so what’s the problem.

I don’t think those kids are his gene pool because they don’t look like him and he said they were polite and respectful. That’s why I know they don’t come from the same family.

If you are going to constantly place yourself on a pedestal and act so self righteous it makes people gag, while at the same time personally degrading everybody that disagrees with you, …..you better be ready for just about anything coming back at you.

That’s how I see it
Click to expand...
Cool story. I don’t see BuzzH crying over a few shots sent his way.

So to be clear it’s ok for hossy to take shots at peoples career path but no one can take shots at his? ????

you see it, but the problem is you need glasses but do not know it ?
 
excavator said:
I did not take a shot about gene pools, but I would consider taking one at BUZZ. I would make an exception for him.

Are you forgetting this is the guy that gets personal in nature with anybody and everybody that disagrees with him. In fact, didn’t he or SS rip on you for working hard in your life, suffering an injury, and having nothing to show for it (sorry if that is someone else). Hard to get more personal than that. Besides, He has reminded us many times of his thick skin so what’s the problem.

I don’t think those kids are his gene pool because they don’t look like him and he said they were polite and respectful. That’s why I know they don’t come from the same family.

If you are going to constantly place yourself on a pedestal and act so self righteous it makes people gag, while at the same time personally degrading everybody that disagrees with you, …..you better be ready for just about anything coming back at you.

That’s how I see it
Click to expand...
Bring it big boy...
 
George,

Happens every time, starts out with 90/10, then a pissing match and photos being posted. Like a fight in the school yard. Fun to watch though. Buzz is quite the uncle leaving all his nephews 7 figures. Very gracious.

Rich
 
BuzzH said:
That's unfortunate (bolded part) and in cases like that I reserve the right to change my mind on tag allocations for youth.

If I lived in Utah, I'd be applying them for antlerless tags, hunting birds and small game and doing some traveling to hunt.

But, keep in mind, this is about WYOMING...
Click to expand...


Life changes fast.

All those California plates ain't going to all stay in Jackson.

More kids involved is ONLY a positive.

You know the stats, data doesn't lie, and yup, even in Wyoming
 
One concern for those that do go to the meeting. Can they make Land owner tags not count towards the non-resident quota? Several limited entry hunts that only have a couple of tags - a non-resident can never draw as the 'non-resident' tag goes to a landowner. I have no issues with land owner tags, but other states don't take the land-owner tag by residency status.
 
goforbroke said:
One concern for those that do go to the meeting. Can they make Land owner tags not count towards the non-resident quota? Several limited entry hunts that only have a couple of tags - a non-resident can never draw as the 'non-resident' tag goes to a landowner. I have no issues with land owner tags, but other states don't take the land-owner tag by residency status.
Click to expand...
Really? I didn’t know it worked that way. I always thought it went something like the landowner tags come off the top then the resident/NR allocation comes from what is left over. If it’s the way you say it is that sucks!
 

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