WY Commission tags

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
5,971
Apparently a new Wyoming based group is taking on the issue of WGF Commission licenses.

Many sportsmen in Wyoming have been biting around the edges of the issue for a long time, but this group has clearly put the leg work in and compiled one hell of a comprehensive report.

I would expect some changes to happen. There is a detailed link in the article with past purchasers, where the hunt are taking place, etc.

Some key findings from the report:

? Commissioner Licenses generated upwards of $8 million for the recipient organizations with an average sale price of over $11,000.

? At least 116 of the Commissioner Licenses sold/auctioned/raffled were donated to organizations without conservation, hunting, fishing, or wildlife missions, including agricultural organizations, industry groups, veterans groups, hockey and baseball groups, county and town government entities, churches, food banks, etc. This generated at least $1.25 million in total revenue for these non-hunting, non-conservation organizations.

? Multiple Commissioner Licenses were donated to nonprofits located outside of Wyoming.

? Records on the tag species, and the dollar amount generated by the license auction or raffle are not complete.

? Organizations receiving the donated Licenses were not required to specify how the money raised would be spent, or account for its distribution after the fact.

? Elk tags are by far the bulk of the tags being donated by the Commissioners. Completed records from 2008-2018 indicate 474 elk, 103 deer and 5 antelope tags were donated. 125 tags did not have a species designated.

? 96 of the Commissioner tags purchased 2008-2018 were used for Area 7 (Laramie Peak) bull elk.

? Nonresidents purchased 564 of the 701 Commission License offered from 2008-2018, or 80.5%.

? The Wyoming Wildlife Federation, Muley Fanatics Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Wyoming Wild Sheep Foundation and Wyoming Game Warden Association have all received in excess of $300,000 in funding via Commissioner License donations and subsequent tag sales/auction/raffles since 2008.

Full story here:

https://www.mtnpursuit.org/
 
Buzz,

What do you think the direction is? Less tags, only WY groups? Species specific tags to lessen the burden on the high end elk hunts? Elimination of the tags?

Rich
 
what a bombshell. data so simple even a politician can understand it. do away with all wealth tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]The group doing the study provided their solution in the link provided.

They want to limit the commission tags to a total of 50 elk, 10 deer, and 5 pronghorn per year. The GF would auction them and keep all the funds in-house.

There is a huge problem in Wyoming with these tags, as well as Governors tags and other complimentary licenses.

In any given year there are 56-80 commission licenses issued, another 25 Governors tags (5 each...sheep, moose, bison, elk, deer) 160 complimentary pronghorn tags, some others complimentary licenses as well.

Many of these tags, as the information points to, is not being used in any way to support wildlife. Further, there was a breach in the MOU by Wyoming's Gov. Mead going outside the MOU and giving private orgs elk and sheep Governors tags. I was not happy when it happened with just the elk tag, was absolutely furious when the sheep tag was given outside the MOU.

There is flat too much abuse and wayyy too many of these tags.

Another problem they create is with seasons. I know of at least one deer area that will not be opened for a late season because of Commission/Governors tags. I also know that at least one sheep area is keeping a lower quota so it doesn't qualify for hunting by Governors tags. Some elk tag quotas in NW Wyoming are being kept very low to R and NR hunters through the draw because of the impact by Governors and Commission tags.

IMO, when these tags start taking opportunity away from both R and NR hunters because of their impacts, there needs to be some changes.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]Very good write up and some great concerns brought up.


although I did read the mission statement on other issues on this link. A few I do not agree with
 
Interesting. I always knew there was a mess with the tags in WY, but this really highlights how far off course WY is when it offers these tags. It should be a big deal and I hope this gets sorted out.

As for the new group.... I am good with some, but disagree entirely with the stance on baiting and electronic calls.
 
>Very good write up and some
>great concerns brought up.
>although I did read the mission
>statement on other issues on
>this link. A few I
>do not agree with


I hope this gets going with the wide abuse these tags represent and eventually the majority of these "give away" tags are put into the draw pool along with the raffles by the G&F that was mentioned. I also have a big problem with a number of items in their mission statement, such that I would never be a member of their group.
 
Well I called WYGF and asked to talk to someone about this very same topic. After reading the entire report I felt I had a good understanding of the Commissioner tag giveaway. Well 10 minutes later I get a call from Director Scott Talbott. We discussed the research of Mountain Pursuit and he was well aware of it's content. He explained his take on it and what can be done to remedy the current commissioner tag giveaway. It is totally out of his hands and out of the Commissions hands. This has to be fixed through the State Legislature. Director Talbot recommended for anyone who wants change to contact your legislator.
 
Some good info given from their research. I have to agree about the commission tags and they need to be limited and the money or at least a good percentage donated back to WY game and fish.
I don't really agree with some of the other statements and goals of mountain Pursuit though especially bear baiting and killing coyotes. Predators need to be managed.
 
Careful. While the tag issue sounds like home(Utah), the rest of that group? Especially cutting of NR tags? We face a huge challenge in trying to present a common, United front against land grabbers. We need NR, non western dudes to help. What does this dude think will happen when he shuts down NR hunters, they will gladly tell him to pound sand when Mike Lee wants to sell off region G, or the thoroughfare.

We are a small enough group(hunters), we don't need to fracture on state borders as well.

Western states guys will lose in that, eastern guys have little public land, whereas we depend on it(70% of us).




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 07:09PM (MST)[p]>Well I called WYGF and asked
>to talk to someone about
>this very same topic. After
>reading the entire report I
>felt I had a good
> understanding of the Commissioner
>tag giveaway. Well 10 minutes
>later I get a call
>from Director Scott Talbott. We
>discussed the research of Mountain
>Pursuit and he was well
>aware of it's content. He
>explained his take on it
>and what can be done
>to remedy the current commissioner
>tag giveaway. It is totally
>out of his hands and
>out of the Commissions hands.
>This has to be fixed
>through the State Legislature. Director
>Talbot recommended for anyone who
>wants change to contact your
>legislator.


I guess I don't understand why he would say it's out of the hands of the Commission. I don't believe they are forced to give out any of those tags that is authorized by the Legislature. Seems to me that it would be much easier to put enough pressure on those few individuals to not give them out even if they weren't put back into the draw than hope that the Legislature would reverse what is happening now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]Correct Mike, the Commissioners don't have to issue a single tag. The current statute uses the "may", it is totally up to them.
 
I think it's a great thing, IF the money goes directly back into the resource.

The money going to unrelated causes makes no sense at all.

















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
I'm sure I will get blasted here, but folks need to understand Wyoming as there is a bigger picture involved. I can understand then perspective that these tags should only go to conservation efforts, but I don't agree as explained later. For those against the commissioner tags because it may impact their opportunity by a fraction of a percentage, frankly, that is just gross selfishness.

On to the bigger picture. By surface area Wyoming is the 9th largest state and by population it is the least populated. Most reading this know that, but don't really understand what that means or looks like. To help put that into perspective consider these facts...

The biggest city only has 62,000 people. Only 10 towns in the state have populations greater then 10,000 people. Only 17 towns have populations over 5,000 people. The bulk of the towns have less then 1,000. So why do I bring this up? In my opinion the commissioners do a good job balancing the need to support conservation, but also the need to support community. Our commissioners understand the struggles these small communities have to provide opportunities to their community. The non-profits that the commissioners help support, add tremendous value and opportunity to many of small communities in the state. My community has benefited greatly by the generous support provided by our commissioner.

I can't talk to the all the non-profits supported but I do trust the commissioners enough to believe they are being prudent in a balanced support of both community and conservation.
 
>I'm sure I will get blasted
>here, but folks need to
>understand Wyoming as there is
>a bigger picture involved. I
>can understand then perspective that
>these tags should only go
>to conservation efforts, but I
>don't agree as explained later.
>For those against the commissioner
>tags because it may impact
>their opportunity by a fraction
>of a percentage, frankly, that
>is just gross selfishness.
>

If there were no Commissioner tags, there wouldn't be another 56 licenses available to the public. You missed the point.


>On to the bigger picture. By
>surface area Wyoming is the
>9th largest state and by
>population it is the least
>populated. Most reading this know
>that, but don't really understand
>what that means or looks
>like. To help put that
>into perspective consider these facts...
>
>
>The biggest city only has 62,000
>people. Only 10 towns in
>the state have populations greater
>then 10,000 people. Only 17
>towns have populations over 5,000
>people. The bulk of the
>towns have less then 1,000.

Yeah, I saw all that once when I googled "Wyoming"


>So why do I bring
>this up? In my
>opinion the commissioners do a
>good job balancing the need
>to support conservation, but also
>the need to support community.
> Our commissioners understand the
>struggles these small communities have
>to provide opportunities to their
>community. The non-profits that the
>commissioners help support, add tremendous
>value and opportunity to many
>of small communities in the
>state. My community has benefited
>greatly by the generous support
>provided by our commissioner.
>
>I can't talk to the all
>the non-profits supported but I
>do trust the commissioners enough
>to believe they are being
>prudent in a balanced support
>of both community and conservation.
>

Two things: First, non-wildlife related nonprofits should't benefit off the back of wildlife. We have enough shortfalls in conservation as it is.

Secondly, giving tags to nonprofits from outside of Wyoming is a far stretch from supporting community in Wyoming.

Commissioner tags should only go to wildlife related groups in Wyoming.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]The legislature came up with the idea to create a revenue flow. There are several non-profit organizations in Wyoming that are making money off the sale of these tags and using the money to help fund worthwhile projects in Wyoming communities. The legislature new these elk, deer and antelope tags would bring in a good deal of revenue. 80.5% is going to The Wyoming Wildlife Federation, Muley Fanatics Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Wyoming Wild Sheep Foundation and Wyoming Game Warden Association have all received in excess of $300,000 in funding via Commissioner License donations and subsequent tag sales/auction/raffles since 2008. This is a good thing. The thing that needs to change is the monies leaving Wyoming. Just keep the money in Wyoming.
If you have the time look at the list of all the non-wildlife non-profit organizations in Wyoming making money off of the tags and you will agree it is good idea.
 
Their list of issues is pretty broad. It seems to me that some of their issues or mission exist merely to garner maximum support. I expect the issues that will really be pursued are those that are the most self serving to them or their primary allies.

Regarding resident/non-resident tag allocation; I can't believe they think resident tags should be increased. Wyoming is already, without a doubt, the best state to be a resident hunter in. Wyoming residents already have it so much better than any other states? residents it is ridiculous! I know people that have literally moved to that state just for the hunting. Heck, I have pondered it myself.
 
This guy is after Topgun!

?We?re not going to be for everyone,? he said. ?If you're a guy in Michigan and want to go hunting in Wyoming you're probably not going to like us, because we're going to cut you off the team.?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-19 AT 07:49PM (MST)[p]Excavator, I am glad you think us resident don't need anymore tags. Well I guess you know people who moved here and once "pondered" it yourself, so you're the expert. Unbelieveable!!
 
"Wyoming residents already have it so much better than any other states? residents it is ridiculous!"

So people having a great thing is ridiculous? Jealousy definitely clouds judgment.
 
It's not really jealousy it just stating a fact. you don't know how good you have it. you can share with the NR or we might just move in and join you. then we're direct competition . I've thought of it myself, being a WY resident isn't an exclusive club you know.

WY's been good to me and so have the people I've met hunting there. I have no gripes.












Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Thanx Buzz. I appreciate the fact that your finger is continually on pulse of these things. Thank you for the information you provide, it sure helps to give insight and understanding into these things for many of us.
 
I bet out of those 96 tags used in area 7 for elk, at least 50% or more were bought by the Wagonhound Ranch or the Outfitter and the price was jacked up and resold to the Realtree boys or Richard Childress of Nascar fame and his grandsons or his drivers he sponsors! Is that even legal for an outfitter to purchase them for said prices and "resell" them as a hunt? should it be legal? I'm sure they are making money off of the liscenses by doing this or they wouldn't do it. Wouldn't that be like me drawing same elk tag and selling it to someone who didn't draw it and making money off of it? Maybe i'm missing the point here or my opinion of "reselling" these tags as a hunt is wrong. Just curious as to the laws on this? Would love to hear your take on this Buzz.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-19 AT 12:41PM (MST)[p]Minus the cost of the raffle/auction, ?% of the money raised should go back into paying for wildlife management in Wyoming... I don't care who buys the tags but the public should know where the money is being spent.

Jake Swensen
 
LAST EDITED ON May-07-19 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]Fackelberry,

I think a more common practice, rather than reselling and increasing the price is that the hunter already has a hunt booked with the Outfitter and the person hunting either bids directly on the tag at auction or has the outfitter bid for them over the phone. Wagonhound is like a 3rd or 4th home to Childress, Jordan and the bunch. I suspect this is what they are doing.

It is not uncommon to have people on the phone at RMEF banquets bidding on the comm tags. I don't believe the tag can be resold to another person but it can be given to another person. I know contractors that have won auction tags and then given them to others as a thank you for work with no money exchanging hands for the tag itself. Additionally, I have seen instances of raffle tags being won and then re-raffled by the winner to attempt to raise more money for the cause. I purchased a square on a raffle board for a comm tag a few years ago. The money was being used for childhood diabetes, IIRC. The winner turned around and asked the group running the original raffle board to do it again. They filled the second board as well.
 
+1 Jake & Mule....yea don't knock the customer! Put the money back into habitat/ wildlife...is money pissed away as it is. If an organization can't float a non profit then it is what it is. Wildlife for wildlife if you will!
 
The G&F Commissioners in Wyoming do a good job selecting/balancing who they donate their allotted tags too, to best suite the needs of both wildlife and Wyoming communities. They are connected with the communities that they live in and know what benefits are provided to those communities as a result of their actions. The wildlife of Wyoming belongs to all residents of Wyoming.

For those arguing tags should only go to benefit wildlife...this arguments logic says all Commisioner tags should be auctioned off or raffled by only the G&F department. This cuts out the middlemen non-profit wildlife orgs being ran by six figure salaries.

I don't want to sound to harsh here, because I do support non residents having opportunities to come hunt in the state, and I'm good with non-residents casting their two cents in on non-resident hunting opportunity issues. Frankly however, how G&F Commissioners distribute Commisioner Licenses is a debate that should engage all Wyoming residents and only Wyoming residents.
 
Last I knew the tag could be re-sold as long as the seller doesn't profit from the transaction.


Years back an acquaintance of mine purchased one at a banquet with the intent to resell at profit. Didn't work out for him. I can't remember if he resold it for what he paid for it or if he used it himself. But he was told by WGFD that he couldn't profit from selling it.
 
The Commissioners Tag sold at the Muley Fanatics Banquet on Saturday only sold for $14.5K, pretty good tag for that money.
 

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