WY license revenue

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copple2

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I received my Wyoming Outdoors publication in the mail today and they had a little breakdown on where the license revenue comes from for the state of WY. I was surprised the % from non-residents was so high!

$12M in preference points alone!

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lostinOregon

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I saw this also and wondered if it would get posted. Some of our friends in Wyoming all say the revenue could be replaced. I also saw that some of the biggest deer were shot by celebrity hunters. Seems some may get the biggest bucks available saved for them.

Rich
 

jm77

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I saw this also and wondered if it would get posted. Some of our friends in Wyoming all say the revenue could be replaced. I also saw that some of the biggest deer were shot by celebrity hunters. Seems some may get the biggest bucks available saved for them.

Rich
Rest assured that 90/10 is not going away. I am more in favor of the change for moose, sheep goat and bison, in which case the revenue is easily replaced and then some to make up for some PP loss. This is going to be a topic in the newly formed Wildlife Task Force.
 

SlowElk

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Pretty much that way in all states that have preference points, isn't it? I know Arizona really hammers non resident hunters for licenses and tags, compared to residents.
 

Zeke

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Lots of people with money to burn on preference points!

Non-residents sure do pony up a large chunk of the revenue for just a little tiny portion of the tags.
Yes, we do pay to play but *Wyoming* has been very generous to the visiting hunters! I hope this trend continues but my fear is the residents will eventually get their way, at least on the more exotic species.

None of the western States are as kind to nonresidents as they are to their residents. That's just the way it is. Period.

We'll all play by the rules but I hope they don't change.

Zeke
 

Founder

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Yes, we do pay to play but *Wyoming* has been very generous to the visiting hunters! I hope this trend continues but my fear is the residents will eventually get their way, at least on the more exotic species.

None of the western States are as kind to nonresidents as they are to their residents. That's just the way it is. Period.

We'll all play by the rules but I hope they don't change.

Zeke
Yep, residents don't want to lose any hunting opportunity either so they'll keep up the fight and will win in the end. I guess we've just got to make the most of it while opportunity, health and money will allow us to. I know my opportunity at tags is limited, so I'll be making the most of each by valuing them as though each is my last.
After that, I guess I'll just be taking pictures and living vicariously through others.
 

nfh

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As my link says non-residents are paying for elk, deer and antelope points and residents don't. The wyoga cant break that down. sounds better when non-residents paid 12 million and residents pay much less. piss poor report on wyoga part.
 
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elkantlers

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As my link says non-residents are paying for elk, deer and antelope points and residents don't. The wyoga cant break that down. sounds better when non-residents paid 12 million and residents pay much less. piss poor report on wyoga part.
For now, Just a matter of time until residents will get to pay to play.
 

highfastflyer

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For now, Just a matter of time until residents will get to pay to play.
Wyoming desperately needs non-res. money for antelope, doe and cow tags and whitetail deer hunts in the Black Hills and on fully outfitted and private ranch hunts. Not so much on DIY, public land hunts for bucks n bulls, and rare draw species. Please continue to support us, like and subscribe, favorite us and leave a comment below. LOL.
 

lostinOregon

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Rest assured that 90/10 is not going away. I am more in favor of the change for moose, sheep goat and bison, in which case the revenue is easily replaced and then some to make up for some PP loss. This is going to be a topic in the newly formed Wildlife Task Force.
Honestly don't care it if it goes away or not. I have always felt that Wyoming is more than fair to NR's and am thankful for what I have been able to hunt there. It is just the prevailing attitude in society any more. Me, me, me, socialism, life is not fair, I should get mine, placing people in groups, us versus them. Life isn't fair and it won't be even after 90/10.

Rich
 

ss13

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What will this said “task force” do? Call me skeptical, but to me it has special interest written all over it. A small group of guys fighting for their wants.

Will this group fight for a way to address point creep when tags eventually go to 90/10? Doubt it! Say goodby to any chance at a LE big 3, deer or elk tag if the 90/10 goes through. The new guys, look at AZ, Nevada, Oregon, will never have a chance at drawing a LE tag.

Id support said task force if they attempted to address and solve the issues surrounding tag allocation and draw process for ALL western hunters. The entire western system is broken.
 

ss13

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I guess my point is, some residents are quick to support change by reducing nonresident tags, but do nothing to address the point creep problems that reduced tags cause. Then it’s us, the non resident who have to play with the crappy hand dealt. It would be nice if those same residents would actually try to implement a way to more fairly distribute the limited tags. 10-20 years down the road any young non resident hunter is going to be screwed!
 

Founder

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Sy GIlliland text me the other day talking about the task force some. For NR’s, when it comes to tag numbers, WYOGA is about the only ones helping us. NR’s won’t likely see any tag increases in quality areas, but managing how quickly they’re taken away and slowing that as best we can is about all we’ve got going.
Obviously I like to hunt outside my state and don’t want to see that opportunity taken away. If that’s a selfish attitude, then so be it. I’m good with that.
As for what the “task force” will do, it sounds like a lot but here are a few issues he mentioned;

Landowner licenses
Preference points resident
Resident general deer licenses
Quota splits between res/non res
Additional issues like draw dates and license fees for residents and non residents
 

wytex

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Sy can pound sand. He is only worried about his bottom line.
Residents do not want PP and we want our general deer licenses too.
Landowners would like to transfer their licenses but I truly hope that never happens.
Lets give PP draw to landowners and see how they like it.
WYGOA has shown their true colors and residents do not like what they see, thankfully their influence is somewhat waning on the commission, we hope anyway.
 

Founder

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Sy and WYOGA. The biggest "special interest hunting group" in Wyoming. Looks like old Sy is recruiting Founder and MM. Shocking.....
I’ve known Sy for many years. We text back and forth every now and then about things. I really don’t know much about Sy and WYOGA other than we both want to keep as many NR tags available as possible. I have more shared interests there than with most who want to decrease NR tags. So, I’m routing for them to succeed in keeping tag numbers where they are.
 

jims

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Wyo nonres have 2 things going for them. Wyo outfitters and the poor wyo boom and bust economy. Until wyo res step up and are willing to fork out more $ for tags and fees I doubt if much will change.
 

jm77

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"Landowners would like to transfer their licenses but I truly hope that never happens."

I doubt this will ever happen, but most landowners don't actively advocate for this, it's the outfitters who lease their lands that do.
The Task Force will make some recommendations, but those will still have to go through the public process as required by law. It is also my understanding the public will also be allowed comments at the Task Force meetings.
 

ss13

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"Landowners would like to transfer their licenses but I truly hope that never happens."

I doubt this will ever happen, but most landowners don't actively advocate for this, it's the outfitters who lease their lands that do.
The Task Force will make some recommendations, but those will still have to go through the public process as required by law. It is also my understanding the public will also be allowed comments at the Task Force meetings.
Who are the members of this task force and how did it get created? What authority does it have? Does it plan on addressing any of the non residents concerns over point creep and the current system?
 

jims

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JM is correct about opportunity. More big game in the hills equates to more tags issued. Obviously nothing can be done to change what Mother Nature tosses at wildlife but it is possible to improve wildlife and habitat health.
 

ss13

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After reading the outline on the fish and game website, I fear that the few who get a seat on the board will have major power in the decisions being made about hunting structure and tag allocation. Seems like a special favor, scratch my back type of task force.

Again I ask, will this group make suggestions on behalf of non residents to solve point creep problems before they before they get too out of hand? Because I guarantee if/when the state goes to 90/10 it WILL be terrible. Any 6-9pt area for deer, elk, antelope will turn into OIL tags, unless you draw on the random side. In addition, opportunity will continue to drop as only non resident tags are being slashed in general deer areas (looking at you g and h).
 

jm77

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After reading the outline on the fish and game website, I fear that the few who get a seat on the board will have major power in the decisions being made about hunting structure and tag allocation. Seems like a special favor, scratch my back type of task force.

Again I ask, will this group make suggestions on behalf of non residents to solve point creep problems before they before they get too out of hand? Because I guarantee if/when the state goes to 90/10 it WILL be terrible. Any 6-9pt area for deer, elk, antelope will turn into OIL tags, unless you draw on the random side. In addition, opportunity will continue to drop as only non resident tags are being slashed in general deer areas (looking at you g and h).
I'm sure NR point creep is not on the agenda. Point creep is nothing more than less tags or more applicants or both. Happens in the random draw too. I highly doubt anyone will care much about NR drawing odds and I don't say that for spite.
 

ss13

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I'm sure NR point creep is not on the agenda. Point creep is nothing more than less tags or more applicants or both. Happens in the random draw too. I highly doubt anyone will care much about NR drawing odds and I don't say that for spite.

I hear you. Seems like no one cares when it doesn’t affect them, or until it’s too late. Seems like a perfect storm across the west, no one except non resident care and it’s almost past the point of no return. I just wish there would be one state that actually did something about the problem. New Mexico is the closest, except for the stupid guide pool!
 

grosventrehunter

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New Mexico is closest? Wow maybe you need to look into that a little deeper. I think most of us who have been around a little while remember how bad NM screwed the NR not too long ago. However, I don't ***** about it on the internet just choose not to spend my money there. If Wyoming went that route you would really be up in arms. Just saying...
 

ss13

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New Mexico is closest? Wow maybe you need to look into that a little deeper. I think most of us who have been around a little while remember how bad NM screwed the NR not too long ago. However, I don't ***** about it on the internet just choose not to spend my money there. If Wyoming went that route you would really be up in arms. Just saying...
Im referencing the system, not the allocations. As I stated, their guide pool is crap. No point system works and all have creep.

Most states do something good, but none of them have a perfect system. You could model a new system off of several states and have a pretty darn good one and still bring in the same amount of revenue.
 
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jm77

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Im referencing the system, not the allocations. As I stated, their guide pool is crap. No point system works and all have creep.

Most states do something good, but none of them have a perfect system. You could model a new system off of several states and have a pretty darn good one and still bring in the same amount of revenue.
Point creep/lower random drawing odds = same thing. Much ado about nothing.
 

BuzzH

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The task force is going to try to come up with recommendations to some of the lingering issues that have been ongoing for years. I don't expect they will solve anywhere close to all of them. The recommendations will help either the game and fish or the legislature to hopefully draft either good regulations of legislation. We waste a lot of time trying to pass crap legislation...regulation is somewhat better because the commission sort of knows regulation.

I think that a 90-10 situation is inevitable in wyoming. As residents here are limited in nearly every other state to a maximum of 10% of tags in the states they apply for as NRs, it only seems appropriate we return the favor. It's always funny how all the NRs that come to wyoming expect more than 10% of the tags, yet none seem to give a chit the states they are residents in limit NRs to 10% down to zero in their home states. I'd rather trade applying in other states as a NR in other states for more opportunity here.

I really hope out of all the issues, the task force gets 90-10 pushed through...long overdue.
 

BuzzH

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Dang all that money and we still can't go into a wilderness area without paying a lot of money to that outfitter group..........
Oh, but some like jim's, think the outfitters are all NRs have going for them...
 

elkantlers

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Residents do not want PP and we want our general deer licenses too.
Enjoy both of these while you can. My bet is they are gone in less than 10 years. I hope you guys can keep it going longer, But I'm not too optimistic.
 

grosventrehunter

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I'm sure if you ask the savior of all things NR, Sy and his cronies (WYOGA), to help out with the wilderness law they would be glad to help. Maybe if you reach out to him he can start a group text to include you and founder. Anyone who thinks Sy is pro-NR has their head in the sand. Sy is only protecting his pocketbook and his cronies at WYOGA.
 

ss13

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it only seems appropriate we return the favor.
I know how you feel, but that's a crap way of doing business! That's why our country is where its at politically, screw the other guy. There are other states that provide more than 10% to non residents, or have some sort of unlimited quota tag, and you know it. If you want to reduce tags, use a better excuse than what's quoted above. It just makes you sound like an a hole.

Knew it was a matter of time. Insert Buzz to throw fuel on a fire. Are you on the this taskforce, God I hope not. Buzz, when are you going to start your 90/10 split post for this year?

Its quite frustrating that residents want to change the quota, but not fix the certain problems that are to come as a result. To be fully transparent, I could care less if the split is 90/10, if it weren't for point creep. Again, its the screw the other guy attitude that's bothersome.
 

Hunt_the_West

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I'm sure if you ask the savior of all things NR, Sy and his cronies (WYOGA), to help out with the wilderness law they would be glad to help. Maybe if you reach out to him he can start a group text to include you and founder. Anyone who thinks Sy is pro-NR has their head in the sand. Sy is only protecting his pocketbook and his cronies at WYOGA.
I agree that his number 1 objective is protecting his pocket book. That said I don’t see where Sy lobbying for more NR tags is disadvantageous to said Nonresidents.
 

Conrad8899

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ss13 what do U want residents to do about nonresident point creep? We as residents have to put up with our own point creep moose sheep and mt goat. I dont see residents on here crying about there favorite deer or elk areas going from %30 draw odds to %15 resident draw odds... Maybe I should go to the Colorado site and ask the residents to help me out with point creep in Colorado since i am invested 10 preference for deer and elk...
 

grosventrehunter

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Let's see...close down the wilderness to NR and lease up all the private so NR can't even pay a trespass fee anymore. Yup, sounds like a Sy is really helping the NR. Sy is only interested in the NR who hires an outfitter, not the NR DIY guy/gal. Next, he will be asking for outfitter sponsored NR tags out of the NR pool/quota. Be careful what you wish for or who you stand with.
 

ss13

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ss13 what do U want residents to do about nonresident point creep? We as residents have to put up with our own point creep moose sheep and mt goat. I dont see residents on here crying about there favorite deer or elk areas going from %30 draw odds to %15 resident draw odds... Maybe I should go to the Colorado site and ask the residents to help me out with point creep in Colorado since i am invested 10 preference for deer and elk...

Not sure if your reply it honest or sarcastic, but I’ll do my best to reply. To be clear, in my mind this is not just a WY issue, we just happen to be talking on a WY specific forum.

What should residents do to address non resident creep? Well, I guess the first thing to figure out is, is creep a real issue. At the moment, under current WY structure, no it’s not. In my opinion, under current structure it wouldnt be a problem for 8-10 years. With the 90-10 split, which will eventually happen, creep will instantly double in LE areas. General areas will follow suite and increase rapidly as years pass. I believe with a 90-10 split that in 10 years if you want to draw a LE tag (big 3, deer, elk and some antelope) or even some general deer you’ll need max points or win the random draw. Is this a problem, I think so. What happens 20 or 30 years down the road? Will we be ok with deer and elk tags taking 20 or more points?

What do I expect Wy residents to do? Well, it would be nice for conversation to begin that actually admits that the point system is broken. That would be a start. If, big if, that happens, then begin developing a system that is fair for all (new into the system vs back end of career). There are ways to provide revenue and also eliminate pts.

Wy system isn’t terrible and it’s treading water with the current tag allotment. But soon it’ll also begin to drown like all other point systems across the west. Given enough time, all fail.

Colorado’s system is crap compared to Wy. 3rd and 4th season deer and all LE elk are on life support there. The only reason you can still draw a tag with few points is because they have so many seasons to choose from. Oh, and they give out more than 10%.
 

Hunt_the_West

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Not sure if your reply it honest or sarcastic, but I’ll do my best to reply. To be clear, in my mind this is not just a WY issue, we just happen to be talking on a WY specific forum.

What should residents do to address non resident creep? Well, I guess the first thing to figure out is, is creep a real issue. At the moment, under current WY structure, no it’s not. In my opinion, under current structure it wouldnt be a problem for 8-10 years. With the 90-10 split, which will eventually happen, creep will instantly double in LE areas. General areas will follow suite and increase rapidly as years pass. I believe with a 90-10 split that in 10 years if you want to draw a LE tag (big 3, deer, elk and some antelope) or even some general deer you’ll need max points or win the random draw. Is this a problem, I think so. What happens 20 or 30 years down the road? Will we be ok with deer and elk tags taking 20 or more points?

What do I expect Wy residents to do? Well, it would be nice for conversation to begin that actually admits that the point system is broken. That would be a start. If, big if, that happens, then begin developing a system that is fair for all (new into the system vs back end of career). There are ways to provide revenue and also eliminate pts.

Wy system isn’t terrible and it’s treading water with the current tag allotment. But soon it’ll also begin to drown like all other point systems across the west. Given enough time, all fail.

Colorado’s system is crap compared to Wy. 3rd and 4th season deer and all LE elk are on life support there. The only reason you can still draw a tag with few points is because they have so many seasons to choose from. Oh, and they give out more than 10%.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by the general tags you are referring to. The general tags for deer are entirely separate from the LQ and as far as elk goes whatever remains after the LQ drawing is deducted from the statute quota is distributed as general licenses. In theory 90/10 would actually help your general elk license draw odds, but I guess that’s a topic for another day. Antelope is really where NR would take the biggest hit.
 

Hunt_the_West

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Let's see...close down the wilderness to NR and lease up all the private so NR can't even pay a trespass fee anymore. Yup, sounds like a Sy is really helping the NR. Sy is only interested in the NR who hires an outfitter, not the NR DIY guy/gal. Next, he will be asking for outfitter sponsored NR tags out of the NR pool/quota. Be careful what you wish for or who you stand with.
I agree with you but at the same time a NR can’t hunt the wilderness or find that trespass fee if he has no tag to even hunt. I’m just saying a guy could agree with Wyoga on tag allocation but still be enemies by Monday over everything else. Heck we can all be honest I don’t expect residents to lobby for NR opportunity at a loss of their own.
 

ss13

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I’m not exactly sure what you mean by the general tags you are referring to. The general tags for deer are entirely separate from the LQ and as far as elk goes whatever remains after the LQ drawing is deducted from the statute quota is distributed as general licenses. In theory 90/10 would actually help your general elk license draw odds, but I guess that’s a topic for another day. Antelope is really where NR would take the biggest hit.

From my understanding of the 90-10, you are correct about elk. That number of guaranteed tags is locked in by law. So, less Lq tags would mean more general. Point still stands that pts needed to draw would double overnight is 90-10 goes through. That creates other issues, but like you said, another day. My point about general was in reference to region deer tags. A lack of Lq deer tags will cause the overflow into region tags. That will cause substantial creep across the board. Like you said, antelope would be a mess.
 

Conrad8899

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This thread was started by nonresidents who where bragging about 12 million dollars in preference point dollars do U really think Wyoming is going to give that up? How do U propose Wyoming making up 12 million dollars from there budget? Are U willing to pay more for Ur nonresident tags? Maybe a sit amount nonrefundable application fee weather a nonresident draw or not..
 

jm77

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What do I expect Wy residents to do? Well, it would be nice for conversation to begin that actually admits that the point system is broken. That would be a start. If, big if, that happens, then begin developing a system that is fair for all (new into the system vs back end of career). There are ways to provide revenue and also eliminate pts.
Hmmm, Wyo G&F gets $12 million from NR PP system, don't see that going away anytime soon.

And there is no system that is fair for all. Next?
 

ss13

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Hmmm, Wyo G&F gets $12 million from NR PP system, don't see that going away anytime soon.

And there is no system that is fair for all. Next?
So, are you saying points aren’t broken or your unwilling to work on a solution? Clearly residents don’t want points for a reason! The residents of WY know it’s a garbage system. But for NR’s, it’s fine. Got it. Haha
 

BuzzH

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So, are you saying points aren’t broken or your unwilling to work on a solution? Clearly residents don’t want points for a reason! The residents of WY know it’s a garbage system. But for NR’s, it’s fine. Got it. Haha
Go talk to your outfitter buddies and let them solve the preference point problem, they're the ones that pushed it. Also the ones that pushed for the high fees to go with points. Why T.F. should the average wyoming resident be saddled with a bunch of crap we didn't create? Solve your own problems...not my pig, not my farm.
 

grosventrehunter

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This thread was started by nonresidents who where bragging about 12 million dollars in preference point dollars do U really think Wyoming is going to give that up? How do U propose Wyoming making up 12 million dollars from there budget? Are U willing to pay more for Ur nonresident tags? Maybe a sit amount nonrefundable application fee weather a nonresident draw or not..
Wyoming could also require you to buy a yearly, nonrefundable license just like Utah and Nevada. That should help make up some of the difference.
 

jims

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Comes down to $! Take a look at the original post. The budget would be a mess without nonres support. If pt creep converts to pt leap with 90/10 you can be guaranteed a chunk of nonres will drop out of wyo draws. Not only will wyo loose $ from every tag that originally sold for big money to nonres and sell for a fraction of the price to res but they will loose all the pref pt $ as nonres drop out of the draws. Why pay $30 to $150/species each year for pref pts when draw odds are cut in 1/2 and it takes twice long to draw tags?

Buzz and others disagree but nonres bring big $$$$ to small town communities that are also lost revenue with 90/10.

Wyo’s economy is in the pits and covid isn’t helping out. How the heck is wyo going to generate the millions lost? There’s no way wyo is going to 90/10 in the near future but isn’t it fun quarreling about it! The same ole....same ole if you ask me!
 

ss13

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Go talk to your outfitter buddies and let them solve the preference point problem, they're the ones that pushed it. Also the ones that pushed for the high fees to go with points. Why T.F. should the average wyoming resident be saddled with a bunch of crap we didn't create? Solve your own problems...not my pig, not my farm.

Don't have any outfitter friends. I’m a diy hunter.

About the answer I’d expect from you. 😂 Chairman none the less.
 

BuzzH

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From my understanding of the 90-10, you are correct about elk. That number of guaranteed tags is locked in by law. So, less Lq tags would mean more general. Point still stands that pts needed to draw would double overnight is 90-10 goes through. That creates other issues, but like you said, another day. My point about general was in reference to region deer tags. A lack of Lq deer tags will cause the overflow into region tags. That will cause substantial creep across the board. Like you said, antelope would be a mess.
None of them would be a mess. A majority of pronghorn tags drawn by NRs are tags residents don't even apply for. All it would do is give more tags to residents in the better areas and free up tags in other areas for NRs that residents don't draw on second choices. Just a shift in where residents draw more tags, revenue wouldn't change.

These are the facts that are going to be brought to the new task force...and that will create positive changes that favor resident hunters.
 

ss13

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Comes down to $! Take a look at the original post. The budget would be a mess without nonres support. If pt creep converts to pt leap with 90/10 you can be guaranteed a chunk of nonres will drop out of wyo draws. Not only will wyo loose $ from every tag that originally sold for big money to nonres and sell for a fraction of the price to res but they will loose all the pref pt $ as nonres drop out of the draws. Why pay $30 to $150/species each year for pref pts when draw odds are cut in 1/2 and it takes twice long to draw tags?

Buzz and others disagree but nonres bring big $$$$ to small town communities that are also lost revenue with 90/10.

Wyo’s economy is in the pits and covid isn’t helping out. How the heck is wyo going to generate the millions lost? There’s no way wyo is going to 90/10 in the near future but isn’t it fun quarreling about it! The same ole....same ole if you ask me!
Finally someone who gets it. It’s a very complex issue and some on this forum feel they are the only ones who are correct. Those same people can’t have a civilized discussion without shitting all over anyone who disagrees. Those people also just happen to foot most of the bill in Wy.
 

BuzzH

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Comes down to $! Take a look at the original post. The budget would be a mess without nonres support. If pt creep converts to pt leap with 90/10 you can be guaranteed a chunk of nonres will drop out of wyo draws. Not only will wyo loose $ from every tag that originally sold for big money to nonres and sell for a fraction of the price to res but they will loose all the pref pt $ as nonres drop out of the draws. Why pay $30 to $150/species each year for pref pts when draw odds are cut in 1/2 and it takes twice long to draw tags?

Buzz and others disagree but nonres bring big $$$$ to small town communities that are also lost revenue with 90/10.

Wyo’s economy is in the pits and covid isn’t helping out. How the heck is wyo going to generate the millions lost? There’s no way wyo is going to 90/10 in the near future but isn’t it fun quarreling about it! The same ole....same ole if you ask me!
Hunt the state you reside in if you don't like it...easy as that. Oh and rumor is another 90-10 bill is going to be pushed again. Marathon, not a sprint...it will pass eventually, just like everything else that comes up year after year. Enough residents are wanting to improve their odds of drawing better tags...those we vote for can only take so much heat before they have to act. Time favors the residents...
 

Conrad8899

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If the Commission ask residents to pay more for big game tags with better draw odds they would in a heart beat... They most certainly could raise the price on nonresident fishing license to help make up any short falls...
 

jims

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2,320
I grew up in wyo and enjoy returning and hunting as a nonres as often as I can! Thank you wg&f for being kind to nonres!

Wyo res better anty-up or all your hours of work are a waste. My prediction is nothing major will change until you can talk wyo res into paying higher license fees! Right now it doesn’t seem like you have much support in that category? You have many marathons in front of you before you can replace big nonres revenue $$$$ in the cowboy state! Nonres are wyos friend not foe!!! Until you figure this out you’ll be running ultra- marathons!
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
NR support was the reason G&F started the PP in the first place. Cry about it all you want but residents won't take the time to lobby to fix the mess the outfitters and yourselves got you into. Get a hold of Sy and ask him.

And I'll say it again: with opportunity going down, residents will support allocation changes given they are so generous to NR now. I'm not shoving mud in anyone's face with that, it's just a fact. Residents will also support increased license fees to get more opportunity based on what I hear time and time again.
 

grosventrehunter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,333
I grew up in wyo and enjoy returning and hunting as a nonres as often as I can! Thank you wg&f for being kind to nonres!

Wyo res better anty-up or all your hours of work are a waste. My prediction is nothing major will change until you can talk wyo res into paying higher license fees! Right now it doesn’t seem like you have much support in that category? You have many marathons in front of you before you can replace big nonres revenue $$$$ in the cowboy state! Nonres are wyos friend not foe!!! Until you figure this out you’ll be running ultra- marathons!
Why would you want to hunt Wyoming anyway? All we have around here are a bunch of 3x3s.

I will gladly pay more for better draw odds/opportunity. So would everyone else I hunt with. I might even buy a cheeseburger from a local restaurant to help small businesses that will be impacted by cutting tag numbers. Wait, we residents do that anyway not just one week out of the year like NR hunters.
 
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jims

Very Active Member
Messages
2,320
Here's an interesting article from the Powell Tribune that mentions how important hunters (especially nonres hunters) are to supporting Wyo wildlife and the Wyoming economy!


I hunt Wyo mule deer because you have B&C 3x3's!
 

WapitiBob

Long Time Member
Messages
4,753
NR points aren't going anywhere, in any state. You can spin your wheels complaining about them or use them to your advantage. I have two trips locked in for WY for 2021, both due to points; I like them.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
Here's an interesting article from the Powell Tribune that mentions how important hunters (especially nonres hunters) are to supporting Wyo wildlife and the Wyoming economy!


I hunt Wyo mule deer because you have B&C 3x3's!

Interesting article for sure. It shows what we already know, non residents provide more money through hunting than residents do. $370 on average per hunter. More now since there has been increases in tag prices since the study was conducted.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
NR points aren't going anywhere, in any state. You can spin your wheels complaining about them or use them to your advantage. I have two trips locked in for WY for 2021, both due to points; I like them.

I do apply to multiple states. Doesn’t mean they are working. The area I hunted this fall in Wy took 9pts in the special pool to draw. Someone getting into the game this year won’t be able to draw that same area for at least 15-18 years. That’s assuming a 90-10 split doesn’t get put into place. If so, it’ll be OIL.

Just because you or I began applying years ago and got our tags, doesn’t mean the system works. The guy starting today in some states like Nevada or Arizona or Utah won’t get a tag for 20+ years. No, the system isn’t broke.
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,229
The residents say they'd gladly pay more for a larger share of the tags, and a few would. the vast majority on the other hand would scream like mashed cats and revolt . it's human nature to want your cake and eat it too.
 

DoubleDropMuley

Very Active Member
Messages
1,002
I’m sure Utah gets a lot of money from nonres and will never have to give out many tags, I’m in 11 yrs deep on a couple species but I’m taking the loss and bailing, I’ll look at other opportunities that I can do for sure!! Instead of playing the power ball of licenses
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
398
Wyoming has one of the most Generous non-resident license systems. PERIOD. Wyoming’s generous non-resident quota of 16% for Elk; 20% for antelope, deer, and Shiras moose; and 25% for bighorn sheep. That is a lot of sheep and moose tags taken away from resident hunters. 90/10 may not be the final answer but the current system has taken away far too many resident hunters opportunity for far too many years.
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,051
After reading some of these post I feel we could give non-residents 100% of the tags and wilderness access and they would still complain on how unfair they are being treated.

Some of these non-residents come in and hunt an area and they fail. blame it on lack of deer, management, to many resident hunters and SCREAM and demand tags be taken away from residents and of course sell gps locations..

Every time I hear or see this the more I believe in a 90/10 and keeping the wilderness law. If ya want to whine us residents will give ya damn good reason to whine.
 

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
10,052
After reading some of these post I feel we could give non-residents 100% of the tags and wilderness access and they would still complain on how unfair they are being treated.

Some of these non-residents come in and hunt an area and they fail. blame it on lack of deer, management, to many resident hunters and SCREAM and demand tags be taken away from residents and of course sell gps locations..

Every time I hear or see this the more I believe in a 90/10 and keeping the wilderness law. If ya want to whine us residents will give ya damn good reason to whine.
Not sure if this is a poke at me with your gps comment or what, but I can tell you, I didn’t fail, usually don’t, always enjoy my hunts, always see plenty of deer, never screamed about it and never demanded tags be taken away from residents.

I definitely don’t want to see more tags taken from NR’s, would obviously like to see more big bucks and would like to see the wilderness rule lifted.
And yes, I sell information packages on some of the best places I find each year after many days of scouting. Here’s a link for those who don’t know what you’re scolding me for on that.

 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
After reading some of these post I feel we could give non-residents 100% of the tags and wilderness access and they would still complain on how unfair they are being treated.

Some of these non-residents come in and hunt an area and they fail. blame it on lack of deer, management, to many resident hunters and SCREAM and demand tags be taken away from residents and of course sell gps locations..

Every time I hear or see this the more I believe in a 90/10 and keeping the wilderness law. If ya want to whine us residents will give ya damn good reason to whine.

😂 Pretty sure no one on here is asking for 100% of tags, or claimed they didn’t fill a tag because of lack of game or too many resident hunters. You can believe that, but it’s not true.

This was started because someone posted an article showing the amount of revenue non residents bring into the state via tags and points. After that the chest puffing started over a 90-10 split proposal and a “task force”. Next someone posted a good article about on average non residents spend more money per season in Wy than residents.

You and buzz may not like non residents, but we do provide revenue to the state at a higher rate than residents through hunting. Sure, a 90-10 split may happen, but your state will never ban non resident hunters. At least not in the immediate future. It’s amazing how butt hurt some people get when a person holds a different opinion, voices concerns they see, or challenges theories that are presented.

It’s squeaky wheel syndrome at its finest. Be loud and claim only you are correct, all while attempting to discredit and belittle others, in an attempt to gain allies. It’s like some bullies in politics trying to push an agenda that simply isn’t popular.

I’ve hunted Wy many times, have spoken to lots of locals both in town and on the mountain, gained free access to private and spent tons of money in the state. The people I’ve come in contact with have been generous, welcoming and friendly. Either I’ve been bamboozled all these years, or you guys are the minority. I’ll continue to spend money in the state and stay in contact with people I know. I’ll also treat anyone I come in contact with, with respect. But, I will not be friends with people who don’t want me around, or are too hard headed to have a civil conversation.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
😂 Pretty sure no one on here is asking for 100% of tags, or claimed they didn’t fill a tag because of lack of game or too many resident hunters. You can believe that, but it’s not true.

This was started because someone posted an article showing the amount of revenue non residents bring into the state via tags and points. After that the chest puffing started over a 90-10 split proposal and a “task force”. Next someone posted a good article about on average non residents spend more money per season in Wy than residents.

You and buzz may not like non residents, but we do provide revenue to the state at a higher rate than residents through hunting. Sure, a 90-10 split may happen, but your state will never ban non resident hunters. At least not in the immediate future. It’s amazing how butt hurt some people get when a person holds a different opinion, voices concerns they see, or challenges theories that are presented.

It’s squeaky wheel syndrome at its finest. Be loud and claim only you are correct, all while attempting to discredit and belittle others, in an attempt to gain allies. It’s like some bullies in politics trying to push an agenda that simply isn’t popular.

I’ve hunted Wy many times, have spoken to lots of locals both in town and on the mountain, gained free access to private and spent tons of money in the state. The people I’ve come in contact with have been generous, welcoming and friendly. Either I’ve been bamboozled all these years, or you guys are the minority. I’ll continue to spend money in the state and stay in contact with people I know. I’ll also treat anyone I come in contact with, with respect. But, I will not be friends with people who don’t want me around, or are too hard headed to have a civil conversation.
Wow. Everyone knows what NR contribute in license fees and points. You should go back and read those resident comments again. Apparently, you may be the only one "butt-hurt" on this thread. This happens every year when the discussion of tag allocations comes up. I'll say it again, as long as opportunity decreases, residents will look toward an advantage when Wyoming is so generous with NR tags. That's it, I don't hate NR, in fact have made good friends on here and with other NR I have met in the field.
 

nripepi

Very Active Member
Messages
1,545
I think that a 90-10 situation is inevitable in wyoming. As residents here are limited in nearly every other state to a maximum of 10% of tags in the states they apply for as NRs, it only seems appropriate we return the favor. It's always funny how all the NRs that come to wyoming expect more than 10% of the tags, yet none seem to give a chit the states they are residents in limit NRs to 10% down to zero in their home states. I'd rather trade applying in other states as a NR in other states for more opportunity here.
I don't understand why Buzz and others won't bring up Colorado when they try to make their point on 90/10, it needs to be part of the discussion, but the 90/10 crew always ignores it. Non-residents to western states, typically hunt either Colorado or Wyoming because they are the two most generous states to non-residents (I do know that Colorado only gives 10% of sheep/goat/moose tags to non-res) but up to 35% of other species tags with a minimum of 20% for high demand areas plus the OTC elk tags. I will look for the data to support this, but I bet Colorado and Wyoming are 1-2 in non-resident revenue by a long shot.

Does anyone on here from Wyoming who are pushing 90/10 hunt Colorado? Just curious. Taking $12 million per year ($450 per year from me) in preference point money from non-residents then changing the game significantly, really really hurts that investment. Once Wyoming went to $100 than $150 per sheep/moose point I know 20 or so non-residents personally that dropped out while only 2 (the 2 with most points) stayed in. I think if the odds get worse and the tag prices increase, non-residents will drop out significantly (just doesn't make sense to stay in). Time will tell.
 

LivingTheDream

Active Member
Messages
165
First and foremost, as a non resident of Wyoming I want to say thank you for the tag allocation to non-resident hunters. I have hunted Wyoming twice and have really enjoyed it and the people in Wyoming are pretty awesome compared to alot of places.

My personal opinion (and it is worth what you paid for it) is the current point system with random draw is working as well as expected. Even looking at resident sheep, that backlog is going to start to clear much faster than the non resident backlog. I personally think it should take 20 years to draw a sheep tag, a sheep tag is something special. I dont think some guy should go I want to hunt sheep and get an opportunity right away, I started buying points in Wyoming before I had ever been in the state of Wyoming (same with Arizona, Nevada and Utah). I realize what a special opportunity it is and starting planning accordingly. Look how many drop out over the years, it is shocking how many people give up and my thought is they didnt want it bad enough.

It is really a supply and demand issue. I think we spend too much time debating the demand (point creep, tag allocations, etc) instead of focusing how to create more supply. How can we improve winter range, how can we increase moose/sheep/deer numbers. The demand issue I feel could be addressed pretty easy on the non resident side (this is unpopular) but increase point and license fees the rate of inflation every year. Or require a small game license. There is economic pressure that could be applied and I am sure would get a few people to drop out every year.

I think outfitters are doing ok, I have enough points to draw the elk area I want and called the outfitter I want and he told me it was a 3 year wait...so I will wait some more.

I do think one of the biggest threats to the hunting community is the us vs them attitude that seems to happen between residents vs non residents, bow vs rifle, etc. Seems like we should spend more time focused on the community has a whole and improving things rather than trying to carve out our niche. I think at some point there will be an issue and if there isn't an organized widespread group to fight it, we will slowly be taken apart, and we all lose. I think the issue that immediately comes to mind is grizzles in Wyoming, you don't see animal rights groups going well I'm a non resident so it doesn't impact me so I am not going to donate, write congress, whatever. It would be easy for a someone who just hunts there home state to say screw it and not get involved, which I think is a huge mistake.

I think the opinion that, well this states does this so we should it too is a recipe for long term failure.
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,051
My post was also sarcasm. I am also referring that in other forums I have lost count how many times someone complains about a hunt area cause they saw nothing and didn't fill a tag. Region G is a hot topic. All it is complain about residents that get to hunt it every year.



You want my honest feelings. I am fine with how things are right now.. I haven't done the research and time to understand both sides and make to make a choice on where I should stand on the issue. Right now I am neutral.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
I'll say it again, as long as opportunity decreases, residents will look toward an advantage when Wyoming is so generous with NR tags.
Maybe I’m blind, but other than moose and maybe some other of big three, where has opportunity decreased for residents? Unlimited general elk and deer tags. Stable LQ tag allocation (yes there is an ebb flow for some based on winter).

Seems like residents pushed for decreases to us pretty regularly. Deer specifically, non resident opportunity has been slashed in general region tags, g,h,f and a few others, while residents remain unlimited. No, I am not saying you should be limited, just pointing out that changes are made limiting NR tags, though they are not needed. These changes were made because of squeaky wheels complaining about overcrowding, which ironically is caused by the unlimited resident tags in those areas.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
My post was also sarcasm. I am also referring that in other forums I have lost count how many times someone complains about a hunt area cause they saw nothing and didn't fill a tag. Region G is a hot topic. All it is complain about residents that get to hunt it every year.



You want my honest feelings. I am fine with how things are right now.. I haven't done the research and time to understand both sides and make to make a choice on where I should stand on the issue. Right now I am neutral.

I think I know the specific post about G your talking about. I didn’t take it as a ***** about lack of game, but rather the poster providing his/her observation about the hunt. That post quickly transformed into a debate about unlimited residents and overcrowding.

I do think the overcrowding is a conversation worth having. Again things can be done to limit that type of pressure. It seems like the default answer is to limit non residents, which really isn’t the root of the cause.
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,229
No non res should bash WY for how it treats the NR hunter, and I'm certainly not. but the NR hunter isn't being given any love, we're buying it. and the only advocate we have is the outfitters, who are also selling us the love. but hey that's how it works let's be honest.

We had the same problem in OR until we started screwing the NR hunters to the point most of them quit. and guess what, the hunting isn't any better and I still haven't drawn a sheep tag. maybe the NR wasn't the root of all evil as the resident goobers all claimed . we hunters have enough forces working against us we don't need to be trying to cut each others throat.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
We had the same problem in OR until we started screwing the NR hunters to the point most of them quit. and guess what, the hunting isn't any better and I still haven't drawn a sheep tag. maybe the NR wasn't the root of all evil as the resident goobers all claimed . we hunters have enough forces working against us we don't need to be trying to cut each others throat.
So you would be happy to give NR 25% of your sheep tags or are you being the "goober"?
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,229
I've been applying for a tag since I turned 12 in 1975 and haven't drawn so how much could it hurt me ?

Most of WY's sheep are on federal land, most of your fish and game is funded by the NR. the money NR hunters spend in WY is a boost to many local economies. is 25% too much ? maybe. but if you cut it to 10% the next year you'd push to cut it to 5%. it's no skin of my azz I took a nice ram in area 4 a few yeas ago and now I'm out. I appreciate the privilege I had and I hope others get to have a similar experience.

At the end of the day you as a WY resident have the best odds at drawing a sheep tag of anyone in the US. so don't expect a ton of sympathy from the other 49 states .

Don't feel like the chosen ones, there are about 330 million American citizens who are a U Haul truck away from drawing against you in the resident draw. and I might be one of them in a year or two. maybe I'll adopt your attitude as well we'll see.
 

Gator

Long Time Member
Messages
17,172
When you read about the millions of unemployed residents and nonresident. You have to wonder if they are in the point race.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
I've been applying for a tag since I turned 12 in 1975 and haven't drawn so how much could it hurt me ?

Most of WY's sheep are on federal land, most of your fish and game is funded by the NR. the money NR hunters spend in WY is a boost to many local economies. is 25% too much ? maybe. but if you cut it to 10% the next year you'd push to cut it to 5%. it's no skin of my azz I took a nice ram in area 4 a few yeas ago and now I'm out. I appreciate the privilege I had and I hope others get to have a similar experience.

At the end of the day you as a WY resident have the best odds at drawing a sheep tag of anyone in the US. so don't expect a ton of sympathy from the other 49 states .

Don't feel like the chosen ones, there are about 330 million American citizens who are a U Haul truck away from drawing against you in the resident draw. and I might be one of them in a year or two. maybe I'll adopt your attitude as well we'll see.
Any attitude you adopt would be an improvement, it always ends up with a couple a guys getting unhinged.
 

WapitiBob

Long Time Member
Messages
4,753
So you would be happy to give NR 25% of your sheep tags or are you being the "goober"?

NR can have all of them, it'll help with the revenue ODFW is going to lose by going to archery draw for Deer.
 
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PLK

Active Member
Messages
249
I wonder what would happen to the preference point totals for both residents and non-residents if Wyoming changed sheep and moose to “once in a lifetime”. I’d be okay with that change but it would probably result in decreased preference point revenue.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,680
😂 Pretty sure no one on here is asking for 100% of tags, or claimed they didn’t fill a tag because of lack of game or too many resident hunters. You can believe that, but it’s not true.

This was started because someone posted an article showing the amount of revenue non residents bring into the state via tags and points. After that the chest puffing started over a 90-10 split proposal and a “task force”. Next someone posted a good article about on average non residents spend more money per season in Wy than residents.

You and buzz may not like non residents, but we do provide revenue to the state at a higher rate than residents through hunting. Sure, a 90-10 split may happen, but your state will never ban non resident hunters. At least not in the immediate future. It’s amazing how butt hurt some people get when a person holds a different opinion, voices concerns they see, or challenges theories that are presented.

It’s squeaky wheel syndrome at its finest. Be loud and claim only you are correct, all while attempting to discredit and belittle others, in an attempt to gain allies. It’s like some bullies in politics trying to push an agenda that simply isn’t popular.

I’ve hunted Wy many times, have spoken to lots of locals both in town and on the mountain, gained free access to private and spent tons of money in the state. The people I’ve come in contact with have been generous, welcoming and friendly. Either I’ve been bamboozled all these years, or you guys are the minority. I’ll continue to spend money in the state and stay in contact with people I know. I’ll also treat anyone I come in contact with, with respect. But, I will not be friends with people who don’t want me around, or are too hard headed to have a civil conversation.
Really not sure how you draw your "conclusions"...thin air I reckon.

I don't care that you have a different opinion about 90-10, of course you do, your ox will be gored if that happens. What I do care about is Resident opportunity first, and that we get 90% of the tags allocated by the WYGF. Just like Montana, Idaho, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, Oregon, etc. etc. Residents enjoy.

If you bothered to look at some old hunting orders, you'd realize that moose and sheep tag numbers have crashed, and crashed hard in Wyoming. JM77 has some orders he showed me from 1978, Wyoming was issuing over 400 sheep tags and over 2000 moose permits. In 2019, Wyoming issued just over 400 moose permits, and not even 200 sheep tags. To top it, resident demand has increased significantly for those species, as well as for pronghorn, deer, and elk as well.

Things dont happen in a vacuum and things change. In 1978, when residents were getting 300 sheep tags, 1600 moose permits and fewer applicants...the NR allocation may not have been an issue. But, when Resident opportunities have fallen off and demand has increased, reserving a higher percentage of the limited resources for Residents only makes one thing...and that's sense.

Same with pronghorn, same with deer, and same with elk. To ice the cake, many of the lower tier units that residents could draw each year, and gain access with a knock on the door, have evaporated thanks to outfitters leasing it up. As a result, again, the Residents only recourse is to gain access to more of the better tags with lots of public land or they dont have a place to hunt.

As far as not liking non-residents, not sure where you're coming up with that. I host at least 6-10 NR hunters a year at my home. Provide information each year to dozens more. I routinely thank NR hunters I come into contact with in the field for spending their money here. I'm also a NR in 49 other states, but what you wont find is me whining about Residents of those other 49 states wanting to reserve more opportunity for themselves. Again, that only makes one thing, and that's total sense. I take what Residents of those other 49 states are willing to share, say thank you, and nothing more.

The problem non-residents are having with Wyoming, is they've flat had it too good for too long.

When I see a single Resident of another State advocating for and/or giving NR's of their states more opportunity via taking opportunities away from themselves...get back to me.

Until then, I'll spend my time advocating for increased Resident hunter opportunity before I spend one second trying to solve the point creep problem, preference point problems, etc. that were created by WOGA.
 
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highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
398
Those asking about the new Wyoming task force can read about it as the Governor will choose and appoint members. The known Chair is Wyoming Game Commissioner President Pete Dube a rancher/Outfitter from Buffalo. The other known member will be Brian Nevisik the Game and Fish Director. The Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce will comprise of about 15 people and will mostly be made up of members of the public. Seats will be reserved for the President of the Game and Fish Commission, Peter Dube, and the Director of Game and Fish, Brian Nesvik. The state senate and house have also been invited to have two seats from each chamber.
“According to Nesvik, they're looking for a diverse group of stakeholders from across the state to serve on the taskforce, but they also hope for a lot of public input during meetings. Being a member will require a time commitment of at least one meeting per month for the next year. It's set to expire after 12 months.”
The agenda is open and members will be chosen by the end of December and applications are now being accepted by the Governor’s office. Topics they may discuss are:
Landowner licenses
Preference points resident
Resident general deer licenses
Quota splits between res/non res
Additional issues like draw dates and license fees for residents and non residents.
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,229
I have said it before a million times and I'll say it again, I am 100% behind any effort to increase the NR allotment in OR. we screw the NR and it's unfair as hell. if Jim gets his way WY will do the same. so spare the BS on on me.

you don't want to talk about the fact you already have fantastic draw odds as a resident do you ? no, you don't . because no matter how good it is you won't rest until you have more.

Whatever. we've had this debate a dozen times and it always ends the same.
 

Conrad8899

Active Member
Messages
126
Landowner Licenses- No to any transfer Preference points resident- Hell no Resident General deer licenses- Leave it alone Quota slits 90/10 yes Draw dates and license fees resident-Dot care...
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,680
I have said it before a million times and I'll say it again, I am 100% behind any effort to increase the NR allotment in OR. we screw the NR and it's unfair as hell. if Jim gets his way WY will do the same. so spare the BS on on me.

you don't want to talk about the fact you already have fantastic draw odds as a resident do you ? no, you don't . because no matter how good it is you won't rest until you have more.

Whatever. we've had this debate a dozen times and it always ends the same.
So, can you give us all an update on the bills you've introduced to help us NR's that apply in Oregon to increase our tag allocations?
 

Horniac

Active Member
Messages
947
Since the original post was on the subject of NR revenue,
I'm not sure I quite understand the logic behind WY now making the $150 NR preference point fee for sheep and moose optional.

"Beginning in 2021, nonresident applicants must elect to be awarded a preference point when submitting their moose or full price bighorn sheep application. Nonresident applicants who are unsuccessful drawing a moose or full price bighorn sheep license and elected the preference point option will be awarded the preference point at the conclusion of the draw. Nonresidents will have the applicable moose ($150) and/or full price bighorn sheep ($150) preference point fees deducted from their license refund."

It seems like this change would allow low point holders with no chance in their lifetime of drawing a preference point tag under the current system to just apply for the random tags and get out of buying an expensive worthless point. Wouldn't that possibly result in a substantial loss of NR preference point revenue? Perhaps many of the NR low point holders with disposable income are just buying a point in case system is changed in the future.

I have been studying the NR moose and sheep preference point numbers since they raised the points to the $100+ level and every year there are always 1,500+ NR's buying their first point for moose and sheep. Interestingly enough, this is usually slightly more than those with one or more points not buying a point for the year, completely dropping out, or drawing out of the system. I found this very interesting especially this year with the virus and its' perceived economic impact to everyone.

In any event, as long as this trend continues I see the department maintaining the same NR preference point income stream for these species...

Horniac
 

PLK

Active Member
Messages
249
Horniac,
Currently there are approximately 2,100 NR with 15 preference points or more for bighorn sheep in Wyoming. At the current rate of approximately 50 NR tags per year in the preference point draw, that equates to 42 years before those applicants are awarded tags. If the regulations are change to 90/10, then only approximately 20 NR tags per year or approximately 100 years for the 2,100 NR to draw tags (obviously all will be dead by then). No wonder that the various license application systems recommend not buying the preference point if you currently have less than 18 points. Perhaps Wyoming Game and Fish has made the PP optional because they realize that for most people the PP has no value.
I still believe that bighorn sheep, moose and mountain goat should be once in a lifetime for residents and non-residents.
 
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