WY license revenue

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nripepi

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1,546
How would pronghorn licenses decrease? They wouldnt...all it would be is a shift in WHERE residents and non residents would hunt.

That means no revenue lost.
Time will tell. We can revisit this in the future, but I just don't see how in the world there would not be a significant decrease in revenue. To say no revenue lost is just and blatant lie. Maybe it is $1 million, maybe more.

Hasn't resident demand for pronghorn tags been increasing? You used to be able to get decent tags as a 2nd choice, not anymore for non-residents. I just don't see how if you cut 50% of the non-resident tags in units that take points to draw that you don't lose a significant amount of revenue. Residents want good units as well, I doubt as many are like you that are taking any unit they can get as a 2nd choice which in your scenario is a trade with non-residents for the better units. There will be a loss of revenue between $1-$5 million, it just is what it is. Maybe not a big deal and worth it. Everyone is drinking the kool-aid if you think by cutting non-resident tags in half that revenue is neutral. If so, why not just cut it to 0%? Non-res can only get general elk, general deer and 2nd choice antelope. Is revenue still the same?
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
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2,863
I’m another resident that wants to see the 90/10 split. And while the non residents are in a tail spin over that I’ll also contact legislators and who ever else to keep the wilderness rule. Yeah the outfitters wanted it for welfare and it has nothing to do with safety, but it’s a nice perk for residents. Let the selfish accusations fly. Maybe I’ll start to care when other Western states treat me just like their residents.
Please name another state where NR cannot access wilderness lands to hunt without a guide?
 

nripepi

Very Active Member
Messages
1,546
You apparently don't read all the posts. With 90/10 NR will still get 52% of the antelope tags, just different areas. 90/10 won't change the numbers of residents applying, just more residents in certain areas/less in other areas. Zero change in revenue.
What happens with deer? How does that stay neutral?
 

ralphie

Active Member
Messages
116
Please name another state where NR cannot access wilderness lands to hunt without a guide?
I can’t hunt sheep, goat, or grizzly in Alaska without a guide. I also said nothing about wilderness areas in other states. States treat non residents different than their residents. As a Wyoming resident I get perks, just like an Alaskan resident does. I’m pretty sure there are different restrictions on legal moose for non residents too in Alaska. Seems like one of the Dakotas doesn’t even allow non residents to apply for certain hunts.
 
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hossblur

Long Time Member
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4,999
Hmmm, Wyo G&F gets $12 million from NR PP system, don't see that going away anytime soon.

And there is no system that is fair for all. Next?


Ummmmmmmm. Sure there is. Its called a lottery. Everyone has the same shot at tags in the pool. You can still profit off app fees.

Point systems were a scheme designed by gray hairs to wait the draw in their favor. It Wasnt ever about equal oppurtunity.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
Ummmmmmmm. Sure there is. Its called a lottery. Everyone has the same shot at tags in the pool. You can still profit off app fees.

Point systems were a scheme designed by gray hairs to wait the draw in their favor. It Wasnt ever about equal oppurtunity.
Well when Wyoming dumps the NR preference point system you be sure and let me know.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
Too funny, buzz and his MM friends are like talking to a 3 year old mid tantrum... They are so rage blind and wrapped up in them selves over what they want that anything said to them, is answered with a screaming NO.

Doesn’t matter what anyone says here, because they don’t want to hear it. Could make completely logical sense and they will still bash it. Buzz is flat wrong on revenue, but he is so blind and convinced he is right that he refuses to listen. You married buzz? Wife, 1, 2 or three 3?
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
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3,682
Ummmmmmmm. Sure there is. Its called a lottery. Everyone has the same shot at tags in the pool. You can still profit off app fees.

Point systems were a scheme designed by gray hairs to wait the draw in their favor. It Wasnt ever about equal oppurtunity.
For individual years yes, pure lottery is the most fair.

When looking at a period of years, pure lottery is no longer a fair system, just another system.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
Your completely missing the point on the Archery tag proposal I made. Eliminate the $72 NR, $16 R permits. Then offer a season during the exact same time the archery season was, or maybe offer an early start. There were 5,245NR and 14,554R who purchased those permits. Your telling me that more burden would be placed on wildlife by having a separate archery season. Haha, your nuts.

In addition, the kill wouldnt be any higher than those hunters are taking with the reduced price permits they already purchase. It would increase odds across the board because both non residents and residents alike would put in for an archery only tag. There would be less pressure during the gun hunts because they would be archery specific. But nope, terrible idea because a NR brought it up. No one in WY would support it because Buzz says so! You are absolutely nuts with your refusal to not listen to anyone buy yourselves.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
For individual years yes, pure lottery is the most fair.

When looking at a period of years, pure lottery is no longer a fair system, just another system.

Again, laughable. How is lottery not a fair system? Are you saying any given person has a better chance at drawing a tag? Wow.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Too funny, buzz and his MM friends are like talking to a 3 year old mid tantrum... They are so rage blind and wrapped up in them selves over what they want that anything said to them, is answered with a screaming NO.

Doesn’t matter what anyone says here, because they don’t want to hear it. Could make completely logical sense and they will still bash it. Buzz is flat wrong on revenue, but he is so blind and convinced he is right that he refuses to listen. You married buzz? Wife, 1, 2 or three 3?
No, I'm not wrong on revenue...if I am prove it. You wont and cant.

I've already said there would be some revenue loss for deer, sheep, moose, goat...elk and pronghorn no.

Yes married, happily and only once...I guess when you're losing the argument, drag family into it. But in fairness, its the only move you have left.

All class you are.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Again, laughable. How is lottery not a fair system? Are you saying any given person has a better chance at drawing a tag? Wow.
Try hooked on phonics...

And then re-read my post again...you'll get it, or most likely not.
 

jims

Very Active Member
Messages
2,321
Buzz, hate to say it but you are merely “claiming” and “predicting” that wyo revenue won’t drop in the toilet. You “claim” that nonres tags will be sold at the current price and amount. Your “claims” are merely “predictions”.... nothing else. I’m looking forward to seeing your “predictions” fail even with your so-called “task force!”

We’re talking about millions of $ revenue losses? Is it worth the risk when Wyos economy is in the toilet? Take a look around and tell me that covid is not affecting the wyo economy...and it could get worse? Only time will tell!

When your “task force” starts working on land management strategies that improve wildlife habitat and number of critters out in the field you’ll likely get a lot more attention! For your information, there are some new tools in the tool box that will do just that!
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Your completely missing the point on the Archery tag proposal I made. Eliminate the $72 NR, $16 R permits. Then offer a season during the exact same time the archery season was, or maybe offer an early start. There were 5,245NR and 14,554R who purchased those permits. Your telling me that more burden would be placed on wildlife by having a separate archery season. Haha, your nuts.

In addition, the kill wouldnt be any higher than those hunters are taking with the reduced price permits they already purchase. It would increase odds across the board because both non residents and residents alike would put in for an archery only tag. There would be less pressure during the gun hunts because they would be archery specific. But nope, terrible idea because a NR brought it up. No one in WY would support it because Buzz says so! You are absolutely nuts with your refusal to not listen to anyone buy yourselves.
We already have archery season for anyone that wants to participate in every unit in the State for every species we can hunt.

No reason to reinvent the wheel...and no reason to separate seasons.

Draw a tag and you can archery hunt all you want, or not, or do both.

That's called a win-win-win and another reason why tags are so sought after in Wyoming.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Buzz, hate to say it but you are merely “claiming” and “predicting” that wyo revenue won’t drop in the toilet. You “claim” that nonres tags will be sold at the current price and amount. Your “claims” are merely “predictions”.... nothing else. I’m looking forward to seeing your “predictions” fail even with your so-called “task force!”

We’re talking about millions of $ revenue losses? Is it worth the risk when Wyos economy is in the toilet? Take a look around and tell me that covid is not affecting the wyo economy...and it could get worse? Only time will tell!

When your “task force” starts working on land management strategies that improve wildlife habitat and number of critters out in the field you’ll likely get a lot more attention! For your information, there are some new tools in the tool box that will do just that!

Prove the revenue loss, you're just "claiming" and "predicting" revenue will "drop in the toilet"...you cant, its just a prediction on your part.

For the record, how is it that MT, AZ, NM, OR, WA, North Dakota, South Dakota, UT...all manage their wildlife with a 90-10 (or less) tag allocation?

Why aren't their revenues "in the toilet", why aren't their "local economies" in a death spiral?

Curious.......
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
No, I'm not wrong on revenue...if I am prove it. You wont and cant.

I've already said there would be some revenue loss for deer, sheep, moose, goat...elk and pronghorn no.

Yes married, happily and only once...I guess when you're losing the argument, drag family into it. But in fairness, its the only move you have left.

All class you are.

Nah just curious, figure you got to be a pain to live with.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
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3,682
Nah just curious, figure you got to be a pain to live with.
Nah, you just have no class or manners and have nothing left...so you get personal and drag families into the discussion.

Figured that from the start...
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
We already have archery season for anyone that wants to participate in every unit in the State for every species we can hunt.

No reason to reinvent the wheel...and no reason to separate seasons.

Draw a tag and you can archery hunt all you want, or not, or do both.

That's called a win-win-win and another reason why tags are so sought after in Wyoming.

Why do it? To spread out applicants to increase odds and also to bring in additional revenue. Seems like a simple concept. Literally hurts no one. But since it didn’t come from your brain guess it’s wrong.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
Nah, you just have no class or manners and have nothing left...so you get personal and drag families into the discussion.

Figured that from the start...

Oh man, your losing it. Back handed way of saying if your personality in real life is similar to behind a keyboard you’d be impossible to be around.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Why do it? To spread out applicants to increase odds and also to bring in additional revenue. Seems like a simple concept. Literally hurts no one. But since it didn’t come from your brain guess it’s wrong.
Its not simple. Would create all kinds of issues...crowding, additional pressure on the resource, etc.

You cant issue more total tags and kill less animals.
 

ss13

Active Member
Messages
265
@BuzzH

Fair,


adjective

in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate


adverb

without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Oh man, your losing it. Back handed way of saying if your personality in real life is similar to behind a keyboard you’d be impossible to be around.
Also figured you for someone that did things heavily "back handed" too...again, about the only move you have.

A bit of advice, when you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
Oh man, your losing it. Back handed way of saying if your personality in real life is similar to behind a keyboard you’d be impossible to be around.
Knock off the personal stuff, I can't believe Founder puts up with your crap.
 

wytex

Active Member
Messages
662
Your completely missing the point on the Archery tag proposal I made. Eliminate the $72 NR, $16 R permits. Then offer a season during the exact same time the archery season was, or maybe offer an early start. There were 5,245NR and 14,554R who purchased those permits. Your telling me that more burden would be placed on wildlife by having a separate archery season. Haha, your nuts.

In addition, the kill wouldnt be any higher than those hunters are taking with the reduced price permits they already purchase. It would increase odds across the board because both non residents and residents alike would put in for an archery only tag. There would be less pressure during the gun hunts because they would be archery specific. But nope, terrible idea because a NR brought it up. No one in WY would support it because Buzz says so! You are absolutely nuts with your refusal to not listen to anyone buy yourselves.

You are missing the point, residents do not want to choose their season. We want an opportunity to hunt during archery season and rifle season. It has been discussed many times and residents have voiced their opinions at season setting meetings and online comments. It is not just Buzz, I don't even know if he archery hunts, it is the residents of Wyoming.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
It is not just Buzz, I don't even know if he archery hunts, it is the residents of Wyoming.
Oh...every once in a while, seen it...

575.JPG
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,053
Am I missing something? Don't most tags have a special archery season????????

Thus the reason why most of us don't get type 9 tags. Hell with my general or pretty much any tag I got they have a special archery season..


Buzz, I truly hope that bull was taken in the wilderness just to rub it in even more
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
4,999
Well when Wyoming dumps the NR preference point system you be sure and let me know.


I simply responded to your assertion their was no fair system.

Of course they wont, same as Utah. The Grey hairs have the money. The teenagers and twenty some things dont.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
4,999
For individual years yes, pure lottery is the most fair.

When looking at a period of years, pure lottery is no longer a fair system, just another system.

I was quoting(I didnt have his exact quote) your friend Newberg.

ID sure love to hear how 1 app per person isn't fair.
 

WapitiBob

Long Time Member
Messages
4,754
I can find plenty that say it's only fair if those waiting the longest have preference. Then there's the guy who whined because his kid couldn't draw a sheep tag in the unit he grew up. There was a guy whining about OR sheep because his friend died without drawing and "some kid" drew first and didn't "deserve it". Thought he was gonna cry. In fact, there have been proposals to have a beginning age limit for OR sheep because "18 years olds don't know what they have" and won't "do the tag justice" whatever the hell that means.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
You have covered quite a few topics in your last post.

General license deer in November in western Wyoming - you can’t be serious that you think this ever will or should happen again? I personally feel that Regions G and H should not be open to every resident deer hunter every year. I know you will disagree.

So make the resident OIL for sheep and moose applicable for rams and bulls only. Are you really concerned that a few ewes and cow moose could get dumped in the leftover pool or go to non-residents? The OIL regulation would not be retroactive and therefore you would not be affected. When mountain goat went OIL the WGF simply picked a date and went forward from there.

Your comments concerning OIL for deer and elk; they truly are obtuse!!

You are so dead set against any changes that affect resident opportunity but you have no problem with any changes that affect non-resident opportunity. Screw the non-resident that has been in the points game for 15+ years! Raise the non-resident prices even higher across the board for all tags! They’ll keep paying! The state owns the wildlife; why should NRs even be allowed to hunt here at all. Crush the outfitters; nobody ever promised them anything either. Now I’m being obtuse and ignorant. Or perhaps you agree with the last paragraph.
No at current I certainly never see Western Wyoming going back to November season dates. This just shows you how once taken away, things never return. You then whine about nonresident opportunity. Show me one state in the west where 25% of all sheep tags go to non residents? Why you’re at it show me another Western state which gives out 20% of their moose tags to non residents. The imbalance and generosity of Wyoming’s system has gone on far far too long. If you truly are a Wyoming resident your mind is Deluded and your Obtuseness and Ignorance are apparent. I have my doubts about your residency. Ask any long term resident how game populations have fluctuated over the years. The moose will come back and then if your Ignorant strategy of OIL gets passed we will have all hunters harvested their OIL and nobody can go hunt. Wow,That sure inspires young hunters. Talk about taking away Opportunity. Keep at the draw and you WILL draw that sheep and moose tag. Keep at it longer and you will draw a second bull moose. Keep at it even longer and you very well could draw a third moose tag and that is the way the system was designed to work historically and there is no reason to think that we cannot return to a 1000 moose licenses per year. Next you now try to readjust your strategy as it was never thought through. Oh well, let’s just put OIL on bull moose and male rams now because we never thought it through. Hell, maybe next you want to force all hunts to be guided and we can only use Remington rifles and we must wear that new pink camo. Your obtuse restrictions just keep piling up deeper PLK
 
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hossblur

Long Time Member
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4,999
Equal would be a more precise wptd than fair.

A straight lottery would give every person an EQUAL opportunity to draw a tag.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
Come on, a little critical thinking.... I know your smarter than that. Your just trying to be a ass hat.

If the archery permits were eliminated, those hunters wouldn’t kill any animals right? Therefore, if the state implemented archery only tags, such as with some elk areas, there would be extra animals to kill. What’s the average success rate on a archery deer hunt? 10-15%. So, would 100-500 archery only tags really hurt a general area? Nope.
I used to think that but then started looking at those type 9 elk hunts. Remember Wyoming already has many areas with these type of archery type 9 hunts and no General season archery. What you find is with modern archery equipment and crossbows the success rate on many of these units is 40+ percent. One unit I researched had a whopping 43% success rate and another unit which only issued 10 tags had a whopping 70% success rate. I do agree though this would be a form of raising more revenue and could possibly satisfy the outfitters if managed properly in Wilderness only areas.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
I was quoting(I didnt have his exact quote) your friend Newberg.

ID sure love to hear how 1 app per person isn't fair.
We had that system for many years in Wyoming. My grandfather drew 3 sheep tags in 10 years during the 1960s. This is why we initiated a preference point system, to equalize the fairness.
 

Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,230
Buzzed, no I cannot. can you give us an update on the bills you've introduced to preserve the NR allotments ?

Never mind I can do it for you , you've had your butt handed to you every time you try to reduce them. I'd have your level of success if I tried to increase them of that I'm sure. hunters in OR are just as selfish as you they're just better at getting the job done
And even at that your chances at drawing a sheep tag in WY are astronomically better than mine in OR. but don't let that harsh your pity party.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
4,999
We had that system for many years in Wyoming. My grandfather drew 3 sheep tags in 10 years during the 1960s. This is why we initiated a preference point system, to equalize the fairness.


That's why I edited to equal.

No one believed a system in which old guys sitting on top of a pool that includes young hunters would be "fair".

After decades even if folks actually believed that, its proven they are wrong.

You can simply keep OIL status for sheep, goats, moose, bison
 

PLK

Active Member
Messages
249
Highfastflyer,

I really enjoy how you capitalize all of the derogatory terms that you call me. I respect your opinions and choose to take the high road and not hurl insults.

I hope you are correct about moose numbers making a great comeback; although I expect it is only a matter of time before wolves are present in the Bighorns and southern areas. I’ve thought my position through on OIL; there will never be a shortage of residents that are eligible to hunt bull moose and bighorn rams.

It is very difficult to have constructive conversation with you because once you get excited, you start to exaggerate and say things like OIL for elk and deer, residents need a guide, only Remington rifles, etc.

I don’t agree with your position on sheep and moose but I’m not interested in insulting you or being insulted. Good day.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Buzzed, no I cannot. can you give us an update on the bills you've introduced to preserve the NR allotments ?

Never mind I can do it for you , you've had your butt handed to you every time you try to reduce them. I'd have your level of success if I tried to increase them of that I'm sure. hunters in OR are just as selfish as you they're just better at getting the job done
And even at that your chances at drawing a sheep tag in WY are astronomically better than mine in OR. but don't let that harsh your pity party.
These things take time and momentum...both are in the Residents favor. I'm patient...and persistent.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
Highfastflyer,

I really enjoy how you capitalize all of the derogatory terms that you call me. I respect your opinions and choose to take the high road and not hurl insults.

I hope you are correct about moose numbers making a great comeback; although I expect it is only a matter of time before wolves are present in the Bighorns and southern areas. I’ve thought my position through on OIL; there will never be a shortage of residents that are eligible to hunt bull moose and bighorn rams.

It is very difficult to have constructive conversation with you because once you get excited, you start to exaggerate and say things like OIL for elk and deer, residents need a guide, only Remington rifles, etc.

I don’t agree with your position on sheep and moose but I’m not interested in insulting you or being insulted. Good day.
You must be a new Resident to hold those viewpoints. If so, think of your children and grandkids. If you stick with the preference point system you will eventually draw a sheep tag and a moose tag. After 50+ years you will likely be on your third moose as we have the resource available and the fluctuations in game numbers are seen every generation. My grandfather always complained about how difficult elk hunting was in Wyoming in the 1950s and 60s. Nowadays we have booming elk herds and the best it’s ever been. These are the good ole’ days of elk hunting. Stick with the historical system we have in place and you WILL draw. Try and get it changed to OIL and you have sewn our fate indefinitely as it won’t ever come back and you’ll be sorry and wishing you had more foresight as the moose population cycle back upwards when we get full control of the wolves.
 

nripepi

Very Active Member
Messages
1,546
No, I'm not wrong on revenue...if I am prove it. You wont and cant.

I've already said there would be some revenue loss for deer, sheep, moose, goat...elk and pronghorn no.
I am very confident you are wrong on pronghorn. I will take another shot as you didn't like my first one :)

You are making a lot of assumptions which I don't think are correct. You are assuming there is a limited number of residents pronghorn hunters and if they drew their first choice versus drawing their 2nd or 3rd choice that for their 2nd or 3rd choice they would have previously drawn would now go to a non-resident.

The reason I feel this is False is that some don't choose a 2nd or 3rd choice, so they are not even eligible to relinquish their 2nd or 3rd choice tag to a non-resident if they gobble up one of the new 10% tags.

The Total Quota for Any Antelope Type 1 or 2 tags for Residents was 28,526 in 2019.

Residents who had a 1st choice = 38,320
Residents who had a 2nd choice = 20,941
Residents who had a 3rd choice = 11,851

You are likely to say, well half had a 2nd choice and a third had a 3rd choice so those would be relinquished, but the question is what were those choices and could they have actually gotten that choice or not?

So what I did, was I eliminated all the 2nd and 3rd choices from units that were not 100% draw, meaning you could only draw with your 1st choice. Doing that, things change significantly. Only 3,653 residents have a 2nd choice they could possibly draw and only 1,675 have a 3rd choice they could possibly draw. That means that only 13.9% of the 1st choice applicants could even possibly trade their low demand tags for high demand tags.

Based on that, I think one can assume that what happens in the lesser desired units with no public access east of I-25 are not that significant in our discussions (some trading may occur, but it is limited). Both residents and non-residents take those tags, but it is not really a trading that will occur. The majority of the same residents that want them on their 1st or 2nd or 3rd choice will likely take them again (as their odds on their first choice don't change significantly by reducing non-res by 10% and moving the available tags from 80 to 90%) and the non-res will take what is leftover in those units as a 1st choice or 2nd choice or in the leftover draw if they have access to private or a trespass hunt or are hunting with an outfitter.

I think the very low number on what is going to happen if you go to 90/10 is to look at non-residents losing 10% of the tags in units that residents are not 100% successful in the draw in (the higher demand units).

In this scenario, there are 1731 tags that will likely flip from non-res to res. At a 60/40 split and value of $326/$614 (Reg. vs. Special) that is $763,662. Once again, I think that is the very low end and is close to my $1 - $5 million estimate before based on antelope licenses going to a 90/10 split. I still think the number will shake out closer to the $2+ million range for antelope alone as in some of those tweener units the new 10% will go to residents on their 2nd choice.

I don't think anyone can say what will happen for sure, but I can't believe you are saying there will be no revenue change for antelope. That is just absurd to me. Just say what it is and how you can raise the money to pay for the change. Maybe it isn't a big deal and Wyoming has plenty of money and can just raise non-resident tag fees more to make up the difference.
 
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Togwotee

Long Time Member
Messages
5,230
Buzzed, everything is all about money. sure the residents want more tags you nailed that part of it. but do they want the 400% increase in fees ? some will . most won't.

The outfitters have done a good job of presenting the facts and the economics. you want something for nothing. everytime you get a step up on it the outfitters suggest upping the the stakes by hosing the NR harder and is sells. and it will next time too. you better have patience because you're going to need it.

If you ever win I'll come join you . it's all good.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Buzzed, everything is all about money. sure the residents want more tags you nailed that part of it. but do they want the 400% increase in fees ? some will . most won't.

The outfitters have done a good job of presenting the facts and the economics. you want something for nothing. everytime you get a step up on it the outfitters suggest upping the the stakes by hosing the NR harder and is sells. and it will next time too. you better have patience because you're going to need it.

If you ever win I'll come join you . it's all good.
Sounds good.
 

lostinOregon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,630
The best thing that could happen out of this is transferable landowner tags. Have my fingers crossed on that. I also don't believe non residents will flock to the lesser units, including cow and doe tags. Most of the folks that have a bunch of points are more trophy hunters waiting their turn.

Some folks on here just like getting in pissing matches on the internet. The makeup of the committee will be the thing to watch as in my experience, most of the public meetings are really dog and pony shows with outcomes already determined.

Rich
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
1,993
These things take time and momentum...both are in the Residents favor. I'm patient...and persistent.
I thought it was "time and pressure"? Oh wait that was that prison movie with Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman!:ROFLMAO:

You know, time and pressure might work for 90/10 too.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
lostinOregon, yeah, and I photoshopped the mount in my doublewide too...hoisted a beverage in honor of your internet sleuthing skills. What a clown you are...congratulations?

IMG_20200423_112129678.jpg




553.JPG
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Oh, and lostinOregon, that's the type of bull that the unit you blew your max points on in Wyoming is capable of producing.

Max points on a raghorn with a month long archery season and a month long rifle season...brutal.
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,053
Oh, and lostinOregon, that's the type of bull that the unit you blew your max points on in Wyoming is capable of producing.

Max points on a raghorn with a month long archery season and a month long rifle season...brutal.

I hope this is a wilderness bull to?
As a resident the perk of hunting the wildnerness is great. Isnt overcrowded with these whiney non residents..
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
Couldn’t believe it when the proclaimed public land savior himself ole “meat eater” took part in that clown show.
There's a story behind that in regard to the one shot fiasco...you should ask JM77 about it.

I was there too, but he tells the story better.
 

Hunt_the_West

Active Member
Messages
321
There's a story behind that in regard to the one shot fiasco...you should ask JM77 about it.

I was there too, but he tells the story better.
I’d for sure like to hear it. I heard he was on the “losing” team.. any bets on whether or not pictures surface of him sipping cognac wearing a dress...
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
I’d for sure like to hear it. I heard he was on the “losing” team.. any bets on whether or not pictures surface of him sipping cognac wearing a dress...
Did you listen to his latest podcast about it?

IF a picture exists that would be something else.
 

Hunt_the_West

Active Member
Messages
321
Did you listen to his latest podcast about it?

IF a picture exists that would be something else.
I have not listened to it. I can’t decide if it’d be worth my time, but I may turn it on tomorrow while I’m working. I said from the beginning that it was PR move by the one shot so I’m betting he paints a good picture of what it is. Hope I’m wrong.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,682
How soon will that crap be done with?

I see they have a 2021 hunt schedule
Good question, the last commission meeting was pretty brutal for the one shot hunt.

They also dropped the men only requirement and are allowing women to now participate. '

The commission seems to still be dragging their feet on the license allocation for it...they need some pressure.
 

Gator

Long Time Member
Messages
17,172
For the record, how is it that MT, AZ, NM, OR, WA, North Dakota, South Dakota, UT...all manage their wildlife with a 90-10 (or less) tag allocation?
How many of those states have the Outfitter welfare law about Wilderness hunts??????????
90/10 is fine now lets move to let those 10% go into the wilderness area
 

excavator

Active Member
Messages
318
Well when Wyoming dumps the NR preference point system you be sure and let me know.
Nah, you just have no class or manners and have nothing left...so you get personal and drag families into the discussion.

Figured that from the start...
The above post from Buzz is comical, and it is the definition of hypocrisy. He is undoubtedly the most classless person on this web site. If you don’t believe me, just go back over the past ten years of his posts. He consistently degrades people on a personal level.

Nobody criticized his family. Only that he must be very hard to live with. Honestly, I would be surprised if people have not said much worse to him. With the way he talks to people, there is not much that should be off the table IMO.

Anyway, to say that 90-10 is the way it should be
because that is what the other states do is flawed logic. The criteria should be based on providing a quality opportunity to your residents instead of copying what other states are doing. Wyoming is currently doing this and always has been very successful!

As it currently is, Wyoming is hands down the best state for resident big game hunting. In fact, it’s not even close. Wyoming resident hunters already have it so much better than everybody else it’s ridiculous.

The funny thing is, the Wyoming residents are actually hurting their hunting (for certain with big deer and elk) with their insistence on OTC tags and stupid stuff like this 90–10.

I now know two different people that have moved to Wyoming for the sole purpose of hunting. These guys are serious killers that harvest animals anybody would admire. In fact, they scout so much that they usually have several 180 plus bucks scouted out for friends and family to come shoot in addition to the one they harvest. I guarantee it won’t take many of these types of killers relocating to Wyoming before the top end animals have a big dent put in them in the OTC units. Hunting is their life, and they are satisfied with any job in Wyoming in order to live there.

You guys are making it so good for the residents, that you are actually hurting your resident hunting (especially trophy hunting) by incentivizing the ultra serious hunter from another state to just move there. This is absolutely true with mule deer. The 90-10 proposal just gives the ultra serious hunter one more reason to move to Wyoming and take the trophy animals from the long time Wyoming residents. Funny thing is, I don’t even think you realize it yet😀
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
The above post from Buzz is comical, and it is the definition of hypocrisy. He is undoubtedly the most classless person on this web site. If you don’t believe me, just go back over the past ten years of his posts. He consistently degrades people on a personal level.

Nobody criticized his family. Only that he must be very hard to live with. Honestly, I would be surprised if people have not said much worse to him. With the way he talks to people, there is not much that should be off the table IMO.

Anyway, to say that 90-10 is the way it should be
because that is what the other states do is flawed logic. The criteria should be based on providing a quality opportunity to your residents instead of copying what other states are doing. Wyoming is currently doing this and always has been very successful!

As it currently is, Wyoming is hands down the best state for resident big game hunting. In fact, it’s not even close. Wyoming resident hunters already have it so much better than everybody else it’s ridiculous.

The funny thing is, the Wyoming residents are actually hurting their hunting (for certain with big deer and elk) with their insistence on OTC tags and stupid stuff like this 90–10.

I now know two different people that have moved to Wyoming for the sole purpose of hunting. These guys are serious killers that harvest animals anybody would admire. In fact, they scout so much that they usually have several 180 plus bucks scouted out for friends and family to come shoot in addition to the one they harvest. I guarantee it won’t take many of these types of killers relocating to Wyoming before the top end animals have a big dent put in them in the OTC units. Hunting is their life, and they are satisfied with any job in Wyoming in order to live there.

You guys are making it so good for the residents, that you are actually hurting your resident hunting (especially trophy hunting) by incentivizing the ultra serious hunter from another state to just move there. This is absolutely true with mule deer. The 90-10 proposal just gives the ultra serious hunter one more reason to move to Wyoming and take the trophy animals from the long time Wyoming residents. Funny thing is, I don’t even think you realize it yet😀
Buzz is a cantankerous old codger but nobody tries and works harder for Wyoming Wildlife and sportsmen including residents and non residents. Take a listen here, it’ll change your opinion about him. He’s blunt and direct but that is what happens after dealing with so many Idiots in Wyoming politics. Episode 56. https://hunttalk.libsyn.com/page/5/size/25
 

excavator

Active Member
Messages
318
Buzz is a cantankerous old codger but nobody tries and works harder for Wyoming Wildlife and sportsmen including residents and non residents. Take a listen here, it’ll change your opinion about him. He’s blunt and direct but that is what happens after dealing with so many Idiots in Wyoming politics. Episode 56. https://hunttalk.libsyn.com/page/5/size/25
Blunt and direct is one thing. Condescending and disrespectful is another.

Again, I just think it’s funny that he, of all people, was calling out someone one else for a lack of class.
 

excavator

Active Member
Messages
318
You obviously didn’t listen to that podcast but here’s a picture for those who like Crayons, especially the big ones. https://www.fieldandstream.com/an-inside-look-at-how-ordinary-citizens-saved-public-land/

You are a Buzz fan. I am not.

He always seems to get personal in nature with people. Sometimes it is when he is chiming in on a conversation he was not even involved with. Often, it evolves in to outright personal insults. Personally, I feel that is not only classless but childish. Honestly, I think he may do it to try and suppress dissenting opinions so some people are afraid to speak up or won’t argue. Whatever his reasons are, it doesn’t really matter.

If he didn’t hold himself out to be all knowing and such a great virtuous person, he would just be another dumb ass on the internet. But his absolute lack of class combined with representing himself as all knowing and virtuous is just a little tough to stomach at times.

I know he was or is the Wyoming BHA president?, and it surprises me that someone that represents themselves like Buzz, would be allowed in to any sort of a public face leadership position.

Like you mention, I hear he does some good things for wildlife and that’s great. However, I don’t think that gives him a license to be a jack wagon elsewhere.

That’s how I see it, and I am sure some see it differently. That’s fine.

If you want to continue to talk about Buzz, we can do that. However, I would prefer to do it over private messaging instead of derailing this thread any longer.

Excavator
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
399
You are a Buzz fan. I am not.

He always seems to get personal in nature with people. Sometimes it is when he is chiming in on a conversation he was not even involved with. Often, it evolves in to outright personal insults. Personally, I feel that is not only classless but childish. Honestly, I think he may do it to try and suppress dissenting opinions so some people are afraid to speak up or won’t argue. Whatever his reasons are, it doesn’t really matter.

If he didn’t hold himself out to be all knowing and such a great virtuous person, he would just be another dumb ass on the internet. But his absolute lack of class combined with representing himself as all knowing and virtuous is just a little tough to stomach at times.

I know he was or is the Wyoming BHA president?, and it surprises me that someone that represents themselves like Buzz, would be allowed in to any sort of a public face leadership position.

Like you mention, I hear he does some good things for wildlife and that’s great. However, I don’t think that gives him a license to be a jack wagon elsewhere.

That’s how I see it, and I am sure some see it differently. That’s fine.

If you want to continue to talk about Buzz, we can do that. However, I would prefer to do it over private messaging instead of derailing this thread any longer.

Excavator
Not a fan at all. I just recognize an old crusty codger when I see one. You need to look at the end goal of his work and what he accomplishes. Brash, direct and blunt is his style but if you had to deal with all those politicians 24/7 and sit thru all those mindless and thankless meetings and still accomplish what he has both For residents and non resident sportsmen I can overlook those faults. I suggest you look at his merits, NOT his style.
 

jims

Very Active Member
Messages
2,321
Excavator, your comments about Buzz are right on the money! I don’t know how many times Buzz has jumped on my back with disrespect, insult, and condensation. I take what he says with a grain of salt but many on this website likely take it personally. In fact, quite a few of my buddies have moved their attention to other hunting websites because their moderators don’t tolerate his crap! In fact, Buzz has been tossed from several of those websites or knows that he will will be banished if he personally insults others!

New members to Monster Muleys may not be aware but Buzz has been ousted from this website several times over the years. Unfortunately Buzz has quite a few lives on this website and reappears! Monster Muleys is certainly a great place to relax and exchange constructive ideas when he’s gone!

This post is a prime example of this! Looking through these posts...how many posts contain valuable responses to the original post? Can you imagine the constructive posts that would exist without rude and condensation from Buzz and his cronies? His antagonism is contagious! I’m sure a lot of guys have great constructive ideas but they won’t share them because they are intimidated by Buzz jumping down their throats!

Just because someone doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean you have to personally disrespect them! From what I’ve heard, Buzz is a totally different person when meeting others face to face. I have no idea what it would be like if him and I ever meet up? Plain and simple he has personally disrespected and insulted me so severely and so many times over the years. I always try to be the better man and still believe down deep inside Buzz is a good person.
 
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