Wyoming Hunt Consulting/Scouting Package


Founder Since 1999
For those looking to hunt where a big buck lives in Western Wyoming in 2016, who don't have the time to scout, I can help, then you can do a DIY hunt.

I've been scouting and hunting Western Wyoming for quite a few years and each summer I get up there and cover lots of ground with a backpack on my back looking for "special" bucks. Every year I find a few bucks that I consider "special" that I do not end up hunting.

What I'm offering is a consulting/scouting package that is guaranteed. My guarantee is that I'll locate you a buck of your liking, or you cancel our agreement.

Package Price: $999.00 - $1199.00

Each consulting package will included:
* Photos of the buck you want to hunt
* Exact location of where the buck has been seen
* Photos of other good bucks in the area
* Trailhead location on Google Earth Image
* Suggested camp location on Google Earth Image
* Nearest known water source
* Suggested areas to hunt for best chance of success
* Detailed report on how I'd hunt the buck/area, etc.
* Phone consultation leading up to the hunt
* No two clients (or groups) will be sent to hunt the same buck
* Group packages also available (Email me for details)

I'm sure the first question that most of you have is, "What size of buck can you find for me?" Well, that's hard to say, but I typically locate 3-4 bucks each year that would gross score better than 185" and 5-6 175"+ bucks, and often a few that may not score that good, but are unique and special in some other way (Slightly less size in region H). And sometimes, a 200-incher. They're extremely rare however.

Scouting the Wyoming high country is very important when it comes to having an enjoyable and successful hunt. Many hunters show up a day or two prior to the hunt opener, not knowing exactly where a "taker buck" lives, or where to camp, or where the nearest water is, or how to best hunt the area. Don't be that guy. The tag, time waiting to draw the tag and the hunt trip cost too much to go in unprepared.

Most 3-day scouting trips for a person traveling from 6 hours away are going to cost a couple hundred dollars, plus 3-4 days of missed work, and who's to say you'll find a trophy...??? Heck, who's to say you won't show up and have to deal with pouring rain for 3 days. That's not all that fun.
Those with limited time away from work, and who want to save time off for the hunt, will best benefit from this offer. If I don't show you a buck you want to hunt, we cancel our agreement and go our separate ways. But if I do show you a photo of a buck you want to hunt, then I'll supply you with all that this package includes and you'll be ready to go hunting.

If this offer is something of interest, shoot me an email and we'll discuss your expectations, as that'll be the big question mark as to whether I can help you or not.

Bucks I find during the summer will be shown to clients on a first-come, first-serve basis. The first person who pays a deposit is first in line, 2nd is 2nd in line, etc. Each will have 2 days (1 day after August 15th) to let me know if that's the buck they want to hunt before it's offered to the next client in line.

I can only help a handful of hunters, so this offer is limited.

Once we communicate via email and you state the caliber of buck you'd be happy with and I'm pretty confident I can find a buck for you, then I'll require a 50% deposit. In the event that I'm unable to locate a buck of that caliber for you, OR I can't find one you are interested in, I'll issue you a refund. So, you only pay if I find a buck you want to hunt.
The remaining 50% for the consulting package will be due before location of buck and other package items are provided.

My goal with this offer here is to basically share my scouting costs for the year, while saving you time, effort and money if scouting that high country is difficult for whatever reason (time away from work or the wife and kids, distance, physical demand, etc). I want you to be successful. I want to see you harvest a great buck.

This is not a guided hunt. I will not be with you on the hunt. I only offer pre-hunt consulting. No guiding, outfitting, packing, cooking, driving, etc.

Rates are based on client expectations. 175-185 (170-180 in region H) caliber buck....$999.00. 185+ (180+ in region H) buck....$1199.00. The additional cost is for an additional day on the mountain on average. On average, it takes 3-4 days of scouting for me to find bucks in the 180" class and better.

The photos below are a few of the better bucks I've found in years past. (Only a few shared in this post. More to come.)

Not many like these top two around, so I don't know that I could feel real confident about finding one for you like these top two. It could require 15-20 days of scouting to locate a buck in the 200's. We can talk though........


This buck I guess to be around 195ish.

This buck would probably fall in that 175-185 range. He's a good one.

This buck was taken and was 28 inches wide and grossed 189ish.

This one here didn't score all that great, but he would be one that might be special to someone who is looking for width, uniqueness, not score.

This one was cool. He did get shot. I measured him at 188ish. Maybe could have got 190. Heavy, heavy dude. Great buck for those areas.

I took this buck with my bow. Scored over 190. Found him a month or so earlier. I was actually in the area hunting a big 5x5 when I found this one and knew he was very good. Got lucky and made a play that worked out.

[font size=+2 color=darkred]More Pics of Big Stuff I've Found to Come....[/font]

Brian Latturner
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This one here has some nice width. His antlers come straight out. Cool buck. I think he's a taker. Not sure what he'd score though.

This one here isn't big enough to send someone after, but he would qualify as "one of the other bucks in the area". So, if a guy bumped into this one near the end of their hunt, he might then be a taker. ???? Maybe

Brian Latturner
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If I had the points to draw I would definately take advantage of this. Anyone looking to hunt this unit from out of state should take advantage of Founders offer. IMO that is cheap.. I would spend that much in time off work and fuel in 2 trips even then I wouldnt have all the info he is offering up. When I draw I will be hoping your still offering this.. Might be 2-3 years though.. Great offer
I'd say that's a good deal............ and not so much because of the price but because I've seen pics of Brian's success.

Truth is, not everyone can 'find 'em'.

Within the shadows, go quietly.
For those new around here or those who don't visit too often, Founder is the real deal. He is honest and works hard every year to find good bucks. If I was younger I would gladly get in on this deal.


P.S. I have never personally met Brian and know him only through the website but he has shown over the years to be above board in all his ventures. I know that because I spend waaay too much time here.:)
That's nice of you guys to say such kind things about me. The checks are in the mail......ha ha. Seriously, very much appreciated, and quite simply, it makes me feel good. I've been running this business for nearly 17 years now and since the beginning I've had the same paper tray sitting on my desk with a note stuck to it that says, "Your principles mean more to you than any money or success", and I try my best to live by that.

Ltsheets - It takes from 0-5 points to draw a western Wyoming deer tag. It all depends on where.

This buck here I found for my buddy to hunt 3 years ago. My buddy had to go home on day 3 and on about day 6 the local outfitter killed the buck right where I took this pic. This buck was in the 190's. 27 inches wide. I got to see it after dead.

A pretty good one. 5x5.

Found him on July 12th, then (bottom pic) I killed him and my buddy killed the wide one on day 2 of the hunt 600 yards from where he was in July. Doubling up on those bucks was incredible!


Brian Latturner
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Founder, I really like the website, and have especially enjoyed your input, and podcasts. I love to hunt Wyoming, and have hunted the same area for 19 years. I really don't like the idea a selling info on these deer. I think these deer that have made it through multiple hunting seasons and winters deserve better. You and I have put in the time learning these areas, I think other hunters should too. Or just plan on hiring a guide. Just my opinion.
>Founder, I really like the website,
>and have especially enjoyed your
>input, and podcasts. I
>love to hunt Wyoming, and
>have hunted the same area
>for 19 years. I
>really don't like the idea
>a selling info on these
>deer. I think these
>deer that have made it
>through multiple hunting seasons and
>winters deserve better. You
>and I have put in
>the time learning these areas,
>I think other hunters should
>too. Or just plan
>on hiring a guide.
>Just my opinion.
I don't post on here a lot but I have to respond to this one. 35 What is the difference between paying money to Brian or paying for a guide. Unless you are a guide and you feel he is trying to cut in on your business. I've seen what Brian has killed over the years and I would hunt with him over any guides in Wyoming.
Since Brian is choosing to turn his scouting into a commercial activity on Forest Service lands I would want to know that he has the proper FS permit/license before engaging his services. Guides/outfitters have to be permitted, I can't imagine this wouldn't need to be as well.

I am not an outfitter, and I hardley ever post on here. You are right, there is not much difference at all. What he is offering is like a drop camp. I'm not going to get into an argument over it. I just look at this from a different perspective, that's all.
For $250, send your rifle to my FFL and I will sight it in before you arrive. For $300 more I will carry in your gear. For another $200, I will spot the deer for you and tell you which one to shoot. I have a nice camera and will hold a photo session free of cost. If you want the photos, I will need you to sign a release form then photos can be emailed to you for $1 per photo. Sandwiches will be $1 per bite. The slap on the back is on me.
I understand those who don't think I should sell my knowledge of an area or a particular deer, and I struggled with whether to do so or not. In the end, I decided to sell my knowledge. I have been doing so for many years, but not in this form. I've shared photos and general info via my site here. Every page has an ad on it. That's how I live.
I also considered just writing a book, and sharing knowledge there, but my writing skills suck. I also considered making a DVD, but too good looking for TV.
So, I decided to just do it verbally with small report to each client....if I have any.

I completely understand your concerns. And no FS permit needed.

Here's a buck that I think would fall into that 175-185 class. Big backs.

Not sure what this buck would score, but I think he'd probably interest someone looking for a 175-185 type of buck. He's tall and cool.

Brian Latturner
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
That ridge in the background of your double pic is one of my favorite places to camp! And also the saddle where you and your buddy are posing with your bucks seems to hold a nice buck or two ever year...it's too bad too many people are hunting that spot nowadays.
I don't see how him selling the info is worse than some one guiding you in to there and personally putting you on a buck? The difference is your actually hunting and not relying on some guide to glass it up and say yup there he is 450 yards, take your time and slowly squeeze the trigger . He's down trophy fee time$$$$
I'll sweeten the pot.

I have $5 grand cash burning a hole in my pocket. You put me on a 200"+ buck and I have a chance, miss or not, it's yours. If I don't see hide or hair of him it stays in mine, but I will buy you a nice steak dinner as a consolation prize. I'll be in G.

Are you a gambling man?

I know you are, I've seen you in Wendover. :)
one_dryboot - The problem with your offer, is that I'm gambling on YOUR ability and I don't even know you. I'd take that bet in a second if you were someone I knew was a person who would actually invest the effort it takes. Heck, for all I know you might look through your binoculars backwards. You'd never find him that way! ha ha
So that hide or hair you need to see, prior to the season, right? Or do I have to gamble on you being a good enough hunter to find him during the hunt?

I'm 90% sure that if anyone I help takes the info. I give them and goes in before Sept. 1st, they'll see the buck I found for them. In fact, I strongly encourage it if they can make it.

I will say though, even if I spend 20 days in that country scouting, I'd be lucky to find one buck over 200 inches. There are very few. That is why my ad talks about bucks in the 175-185 and 185-195 range. I'm very confident I can find a few in those classes.

I'm not sure what this buck here might gross score, but based on his width and just his good size, he might interest someone looking for something in that 175-185 class. Or maybe not, and if not, then just say no thanks and I could refund your deposit or keep looking.

Based on this bucks good looking typical frame and good tine length, he might interest a guy looking for something in that 175-185 class. Where this buck lived, there was a little creek that flowed for about 100 yards and then went back underground, and it was about 1/3 mile off the top. Knowing about that water would save a hunter 800 feet of vertical drop and a mile to the creek in the bottom. Good info. to have...promise you.

Brian Latturner
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>take that bet in a
>second if you were someone
>I knew was a person
>who would actually invest the
>effort it takes.

What kind of effort are we talking here?

Let's put it this way.... I spent over 20+ days hunting G last year, For ONE buck. Should have killed him on the bow hunt. Saw him one time on the rifle hunt, fog rolled in, spent the rest of the high Country trying to turn him up.
If that isn't enough effort invested, I don't know what is.

As for looking through my binoculars backwards, I probably would, if I owned a pair.
I'm really not sure if you're serious or not. If you are, or anyone is interested in a consulting package that includes the location of a 200"+ buck, I would do that. As far as guarantee's that you'll see him during the season, I couldn't offer that. Anyone who knows anything about big bucks, or who has followed my hunt adventures knows that they can be very tough to find during the hunt. What I can promise with the package, is that you'll be hunting where one lives. If I can't find one, deposit returned. You'd be more than welcome and encouraged to go in prior to the hunt and look him over. Real good chance you'd see him. No guarantee you'll see him during the hunt or that you'll get him though. But I give all information about how I'd hunt him.
200 inchers are very, very rare, but I think in 20+ days of scouting, I'll probably find one. At this point, I expect to scout 20+ days and that is what I estimate it would take to find a buck of that caliber.

0-1 point area. It was late-August, I really didn't want to go scouting, but knew I needed to. 2 miles into my backpack trip, I had nasty blisters on the back on my heels. They both hurt so bad. I wanted to turn around, but was already 6 hour drive and hour pack trip in. I pressed on 7 miles into where I was headed. Got there just in time to look for a 1/2 hour. I walked out of the pines and looked across the canyon and saw this buck feeding. He only showed himself for 5 minutes. No pics. I knew he was awesome. Went back and got him. Not my biggest buck, not close, but maybe my best trophy ever, as the obstacles were crazy.
Without scouting, who'd have known there was a perfect meadow for horses to feed, water and 193 inch, 30-inch wide buck nearby. Not many convenient camp spots like this for horses in the high country either.

This one lived in an area someone might could draw a tag for with 0-1 points. I think a guy interested in a buck in the 175-180 range might have interest in this one. Maybe....

Brian Latturner
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That's a fair offer and I see no problem with it at all. I will tell you that one dry boot is legit and has killed some big deer. I cashed out max points in 14 and on my way to G in a few years. i always enjoy your scouting pictures.

With the G tag becoming the go to tag for muleys in Wyoming, this is actually a good deal. Would be silly not to do it if you cannot scout yourself.
Personally my desire to kill a big buck isn't to the point I need to hire a pimp for the job. Pretty soon there's gonna be more money pimps and hoes than there will be Johns to keep them busy.

Are times that tight founder? For another $500 you could shoot, clean and pack the animal as well. I guess some people need a big-buck on the wall no matter what it takes to get it. Personally I find this type of thing far from sporting.
How about this cool buck? I really liked this one, but had found the buck in the first post, "stickers" the wife called him, and never pursued this one other than 2 days at the end of the season. I would think someone interested in a buck in the 185-195 class would like this one. Split dropper.

Hard to say how this buck turned out when growing was done, but he might would be of interest to someone looking for a solid buck in the 175-185 class.

Brian Latturner
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Websites like this exist to benefit the owner financially. They cost time and $ to operate, and are an essential part of how modern business is done. From what I've seen, Founder is quite restrained about promoting his business ventures in this Forum, and I appreciate that.

I am not a fan of so-called scouting services. Since they do not need public land agency permission for their service, they can avoid the limits outfitters deal w. They are free to send anyone anywhere, w no liability for any mistakes such as overcrowding or damage caused by their "hunters." They are not present to monitor or assist their clients. They are taking public resources from public users, for profit, and not paying anything for that taking.

Speaking for myself: I would prefer tag soup than go to someone else's GPS coordinates, hunt per their instructions, camp in their spot, take their shot and hang their trophy on my wall. Not my style.
...and for another $150 I will let you know that each year "Stickers" is pushed out of his late summer/early fall location by domesticated sheep. Just ask half the residents of Star Valley. I trademarked the name but for only $400, the lucky buyer can name him "Snake Oil." T-shirts coming soon.
I understand that some don't like that I share my knowledge. I don't have much to share on any other topics, so this is it.........

A couple of the comments above are somewhat accurate, with sheep and other hunters. And that's all the more reason you want to go into a place knowing where a buck lives, good spots to setup, good place to camp, where water is, etc. Scouting is very important. If you can do it, do it! (It can be fun. I love to backpack) If not, then what I'm offering might be of benefit. I know not everyone has the vacation time to scout properly and hunt properly. I also understand some live 18+ hours away, and one effective scouting trip could cost a week off work and lots of fuel and some serious leg burn.

Here's a nice buck. I think he'd probably interest someone who'd be happy with a 175-185 type buck. These types of bucks are not everywhere.

Brian Latturner
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!

Are you going to offer this every year or just the years you can't draw a WY tag?

Thanks, love the buck pictures.

> I'd
>>take that bet in a
>>second if you were someone
>>I knew was a person
>>who would actually invest the
>>effort it takes.
>What kind of effort are we
>talking here?
>Let's put it this way....
>I spent over 20+ days
>hunting G last year,
>For ONE buck. Should
>have killed him on the
>bow hunt. Saw
>him one time on the
>rifle hunt, fog rolled in,
>spent the rest of the
>high Country trying to turn
>him up.
>If that isn't enough effort invested,
> I don't know what
> As for looking
>through my binoculars backwards,
>I probably would, if
>I owned a pair.

Hey booty!

Offer Him a Night in your Tent to see your Loin Cloth!

Then You Might be getting somewhere!

What would the Coordinates to a 260" Buck Cost?

I'm sure he's got guys lining up to split their points with him. How else can you continually draw the tag year after year?

I honestly hope Wyoming can change their points approach and move to the type where the guy with the lowest number of points in the group is what you get going into the draw...no more averaging!!

This is honestly a sad post about where mule deer hunting has gone and where it will continue to go. The Greys River deer have no chance! Between outfitters, scouting, long range shooting, planes, unlimited residents, too many non residents, expanding predators, loss of habitat, and now people like founder and tkneaz trading or selling their info for their own personal gain, these deer are in trouble and it will only continue to get worse.

Thanks for continuing the trend of pimping tags, making hunting a rich mans sport, and ruining hunting for future generations!

Honestly founder, I feel you stooped to a level I never expected. I know it means nothing to you but I'm about done with this site!

Why don't you scout and sell info for your own state!..easier to send people into other guys honey holes that you may not actually hunt every year?..kinda out of sight out of mind? Or is it that our hunting (I'm a former tard so I know the differences) is that much better and in higher demand?
I don't know if I'll do it again or not. Most likely, I will. I enjoy backpacking and finding deer and some guys can use the help, so I'm here to help. I feel very OK about offering the consulting and sharing what I've learned over many years. I know some aren't going to like it, but that's life. I understand their position, just don't share the same opinion. I guess if they quit using the site because of it, I'll have to deal with it.
Yes, I would offer the same consulting for other places I know well too, in Utah and beyond.
Quite simply, not everyone has the time to scout and that's where my knowledge can be very beneficial.

This buck has got to impress most. 5x3, or 5x4 if you want to count that little droptine. I don't know what this buck might have scored, probably not real high, but he's cool. The width is awesome.

An ok buck. For those I'm helping, I'd share with you all the better bucks I know of living in the area I've suggested for you. This would be one.

Brian Latturner
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"A couple of the comments above are somewhat accurate, with sheep and other hunters."

You're damn right its an accurate comment. That deer wouldn't be anywhere near where your spoon-fed John would show up for his date.

It's more sad that you've turned pimp...but a pimp selling junk intel is a more sickening level. I can see why you wrestled with the idea of doing this or not because it's an embarrassment.
Nothing personal, but as you stated some will not share your opinion of what you are doing. I am one of those, and don't want to be associated with it in anyway. I won't be visiting here anymore, so please go ahead and delete me as a member. I have really enjoyed your site over the years, and I will miss it.

Not cool chewyman55. calling me a liar. Just as I would do for anyone on this site, any future posts like that will be removed. Uncool.

Since I'm posting again and sheep are the topic, I watched the herder bring about 600 of them things through this bucks house not long before the hunt. The buck was killed right where I took the pic on day 6. No doubt sheep and people spook bucks and send them into hiding, but they still live there and usually show themselves again at some point. It's just part of the game. Bucks up there have been dealing with sheep for a hundred years, and while the herd is noisy and stink, the bucks will relax within a few days after they're gone. And sheep have to be off the mountain before September 1st. They're really aren't many sheep herds being pushed around anyway.


Brian Latturner
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I don't understand all the whining. There's DIY hunts, guided hunts, high fence hunts, backcountry wilderness hunts, horseback hunts, and on and on and on. I've done them all and loved them all. It's hunting. Choose which way you like to hunt and move on. Y'all are starting to sound like a bunch of liberals with your my way is the only way attitudes. Everyone's situation is different. For me it would cost me $10K to spend one week scouting and then another $10K to take a week off of work for the actual hunt. The way I look at it Brian is saving me $8800 to use on another hunt. Am I less of a hunter than you?

To those saying this will ruin the deer herds in that area I say bullcrap. In the past 10 years I've had 16 deer tags between my son and I and we have put 16 nice bucks on the wall. Whether I used Brian's scouting or not I guarantee there would still be two less deer on that mountain when we pull out.

If you like hunting guided..Great, I do too. If you like going in solo with a backpack...Great, I do too. If you like hunting high fence...Great, guess what I do too. It's all hunting.
>I don't understand all the whining.
> There's DIY hunts, guided
>hunts, high fence hunts, backcountry
>wilderness hunts, horseback hunts, and
>on and on and on.
> I've done them all
>and loved them all.
>It's hunting. Choose which
>way you like to hunt
>and move on. Y'all
>are starting to sound like
>a bunch of liberals with
>your my way is the
>only way attitudes. Everyone's
>situation is different. For
>me it would cost me
>$10K to spend one week
>scouting and then another $10K
>to take a week off
>of work for the actual
>hunt. The way I
>look at it Brian is
>saving me $8800 to use
>on another hunt. Am
>I less of a hunter
>than you?
>To those saying this will ruin
>the deer herds in that
>area I say bullcrap.
>In the past 10 years
>I've had 16 deer tags
>between my son and I
>and we have put 16
>nice bucks on the wall.
> Whether I used Brian's
>scouting or not I guarantee
>there would still be two
>less deer on that mountain
>when we pull out.
>If you like hunting guided..Great, I
>do too. If you
>like going in solo with
>a backpack...Great, I do too.
> If you like hunting
>high fence...Great, guess what I
>do too. It's all

For someone with a lengthy college education you obviously don't do so well when it comes to reading comprehension....lots of misinterpretation and twisted statements in your reply.
You act like you have an ethical or moral issue with Brian's service but according to your last paragraph, it's more of an issue with WHERE he's doing it than what he's doing. "Why don't you go and do this in your own state". That's whining in my book.

But maybe it's just another misinterpretation.
I would caution Founder and any interested client to carefully review the USFS special use permit rules and insure they are in compliance with them . Because of wildlife being involved violations can become ugly quick.
Even one photograph from FS land being sold can be a violation of commercial use permits. I know it seldom is as people use them for calendars, websites, brochures all the time without the permits. However most of those photographers have not put themselves under the magnifying glass that this thread will put you under.
I am not against or for what Founder is proposing. Speaking from a voice of experience USFS special use permits can and most likely do cover the use of USFS lands for this business adventure.
IMO if you live by that note on your stack of papers you have some homework to do on the legalities of this.
Hunting is a hobby/sport in-which one persons lack of success improves the next persons chance of success. That goes for hunting, drawing tags, buying landowner tags, buying conservation tags, etc.
If I go out and kill the biggest buck on the mountain, someone else's chance of killing that buck just went to zero.

Hunting is in part a competition among hunters, especially trophy hunting. If I were offering this consulting for cow elk hunts on a private ranch somewhere, no one would care that I'm offering it.

I completely understand why some don't like it. If I send George to a spot and he kills the big one, then Jobless-Jim's chance of killing that big one goes to zero. If I don't help George, then it's quite likely he'll show up to the unit and not really know where to go and his chance of killing that big one is near zero, which improves Jobless-Jim's chance.

Some of us who live close to an area, have flexible jobs, are in good physical condition, have the resources, etc. have an advantage over other hunters....we scout a lot and find the better bucks. Less people with that advantage, the better. It's just the world of hunting, mostly trophy hunting. I understand people not wanting me to share my knowledge, what's uncool is some of what they do to try and stop me. They want to control what I do with the marbles in my head.

I'm sharing what I know....where a big buck lives, where a spring is, a good spot to camp and how I'd hunt a buck. Yes, I will share photos with everyone on this site as I have done for 16-1/2 years. No business will even be conducted on F.S. land. I'd be in those mountains whether I'm sharing the info. or not. Even if I'm helping no one, I'll be up there backpacking around.


Brian Latturner
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I don't use guides and I see nothing wrong with the guiding industry. It's vital to the past time we all love. This isn't guiding. This is an unregistered guy who finds deer and goes home to his keyboard to whore them out. All the while undercutting any REGISTERED guide or hunter who actually busts his butt on the mountain. You talk about how THIS is making a living? THIS? Whoring out coordinates to big bucks? Guys that are opposed to this wouldn't care if these deer were literally spooning food into your mouth...you are a sell out. I've spoken to a handful of MM'ers who feel the same but won't even waste their time posting.

Arizona, Colorado, etc. I'd feel the same way. For those of you yawning and looking the other way: wait until this arrives in your neck of the woods. You will sing a different tune I can assure you.

I'm just an idiot who enjoyed this site, made lots of clicks, fought Tristate on occasion, and bought a few things on classifieds. This grand idea of selling your infinite knowledge is absurd and not a single minute will be wasted here again.

Following Banger's lead....delete my profile as I won't visit this site again.
LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-16 AT 01:21PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos3/6712image.jpeg
Marley, you truly are a fool as well as a perfect example of what has gone wrong with our sport! Nice try on the side step above though.

Nontypical obviously gets it. +1
What Brian does on his site is his OWN buisness, BUT if I were advertising on this site and my operation were out of W WY I'd be gone. JMO
LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-16 AT 06:05PM (MST)[p]Have to agree with the members that don't support this kind of activity in our sport we all love. I think if ya gonna apply for an out of state tag be willing to put in the time and effort to do your research and scouting or learn the area when your on the hunt. I've been thinking on this and there is plenty of resident or nonresident that put the time in and may have found these same bucks from research and scouting and deserve a chance at harvesting one of the bucks of this caliber. Only to have a chance taken away from some guy that's never set foot in the area. Not cool as some people would say. Do a little work go on the hunt and if ya harvest a good buck great if not enjoy the hunt.
Really don't see that is much different that a posse of guys looking and finding one monster buck for a outfitter to bring his hunter to kill it.
If I point you to a spot on map and tell where and how to kill a good deer are you going to tell me no thanks or are you headed up the hill to hunt that buck.

Because I know I would be headed up that hill.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
You are right Gator not much diff at all except primping are big bucks out at 1/5 the price of a outfitted hunt. Be like $2 hooker in a high school parking lot at lunch time. I'm just saying 1 man could possibly be responsible for the harvest of let's say 10 big bucks(just a number) for very little. If ya wanna pay to play hire an outfitter.
So if you pony up the money for an outfitter it's ok? But if you pay less for advice and directions that's bad? ?
>I'm just here to watch elkass's
>youtube video... where'ed it go???

I Thought I Posted a Song this Morning!


Shouldn't This Thread be Posted up on the SFW Forum?

This proposal is despicable. It cannot be justified no matter what statement you may have on a 'sticky note next to my computer'. There is no rational, moral, or ethical justification to this pimping of our monster muleys across the west. I am ashamed of Founder for even proposing this and sorry to see the level he has slunk to sell off these big bucks existence. Our trophy bucks across the west deserve better than this.
This pimping of our public land bucks will result in far more trophy bucks being taken off of these public lands each year. Worse yet, it will be to 'hunters' that just want to fork up the money to go shoot a big buck and get their photo recognition. They will not have earned one ounce of this recognition and it will be 100% at the expense of the rest of us public land hunters that have put forth the time and effort that these regal bucks deserve. To continue down this road of commercializing our public land hunting opportunities is a path we will never be able to recover from. Additionally, our public land trophies will not be able to sustain this kind of 'hunting' and the level of select harvesting that will result.
I urge Founder to reconsider. Our monster muleys deserve better and our public land hunters deserve better.
im saying I think people that don't want to do the work or pay what these deer are worth (even outfitters don't charge enough for these 180"+ bucks) are probably just lazy and want for little. Probably voted for Obama. Don't do ##### and we will support ya. I'm saying I don't agree with it and we all have are opinions.
Few years back I met a guy on a ridge that I was on well before light . As it was getting light he came up the ridge. We talked for a few minutes and he asked me where I was heading I told him and he said ok didn't want to step on my toes and said he would go further. I bailed off in my predetermined spot.i ended up shooting a 160" class buck and as I was heading out I met him on trail he was headed out to get pack frame he told me the story and we exchanged pics on our phones. He had a shot a 32" mid 180"s buck. Never been to the region. But did his research. And the party of 3 all killed bucks only the one big one but still enjoyed it all.
Fast forward 2 years later drew region G him and a buddy traveled from there home in Illinois to hunt region G. Never been there. Seen some monsters and his buddy got s little buck. Enjoyed it. Should be in the running for an H tag again this year. I hope he draws!!!! So those that say they don't have the time to scout it's really not needed. Just a little effort and you will have the opportunity to harvest a buck and maybe even a stud!! We have been in contact ever since and he gets my respect. His region G hunt had hot weather first if season so hunted for a few days and went back home got some weather and drove 21 hrs back to hunt. He himself didn't connect but he put forth the effort to put himself in position to have a chance. Now thats dedication . Used 2 weeks vaca, driving 21 hrs straight through not once but twice to hopefully harvest a good buck.
i likewybackcountry hunts. its kinda why i like high fence hunting and hunting africa.

actually it reminds me of those guys in college who used to get through electromagnetics II riding my coat tails. you get sick of talking to the stupid people so you just give em the answers. theres a reason i did my ee degree in two years which is the same reason i wilderness hunt, high fence hunt, and hunt africa.

well i used to hunt africa until i kept running into the unedumecated idiots. you know the likes who are on mm like elkman and wyofukpakr n such. anyways i upgraded africa to those $150,000 elephant hunts and $40,000 leopard hunts so i can be in camp with people that have class.

btw im an electrical engineer so punch away at my grammar. english seems to be a language thateven the dumbest mcdonalds burger flipper knows. so if u pride yourself on saying someone doesnt have as good of english as you then all i can say is REALLY??

now if you wanna have an intelectual convo about microchip design or discuss how to best design a traveling wave thbe to optimize the fixed aperature phase aray radar on the bulk head of the f22 raptor then im ur man. otherwise realise your a dumb ##### and shut the hell up moron!

i agree let brian sell whatever he wants. i think its a good idea and i get tired of you jealous tit bags like you whining about those of us making a buck in life. actually im broke right now. im only making $60k/week so im all for brian if he ca find out a way to make a buck cuz my dumbass sure cant.

and no im not gonna spell check this so some dumbazzcant ridicule my english. the stupid will always ridicule the more fortunate.
>i likewybackcountry hunts. its kinda why
>i like high fence hunting
>and hunting africa.
>actually it reminds me of those
>guys in college who used
>to get through electromagnetics II
>riding my coat tails. you
>get sick of talking to
>the stupid people so you
>just give em the answers.
>theres a reason i did
>my ee degree in two
>years which is the same
>reason i wilderness hunt, high
>fence hunt, and hunt africa.
>well i used to hunt africa
>until i kept running into
>the unedumecated idiots. you know
>the likes who are on
>mm like elkman and wyofukpakr
>n such. anyways i upgraded
>africa to those $150,000 elephant
>hunts and $40,000 leopard hunts
>so i can be in
>camp with people that have
>btw im an electrical engineer so
>punch away at my grammar.
>english seems to be a
>language thateven the dumbest mcdonalds
>burger flipper knows. so if
>u pride yourself on saying
>someone doesnt have as good
>of english as you then
>all i can say is
>now if you wanna have an
>intelectual convo about microchip design
>or discuss how to best
>design a traveling wave thbe
>to optimize the fixed aperature
>phase aray radar on the
>bulk head of the f22
>raptor then im ur man.
>otherwise realise your a dumb
>##### and shut the hell
>up moron!
>i agree let brian sell whatever
>he wants. i think its
>a good idea and i
>get tired of you jealous
>tit bags like you whining
>about those of us making
>a buck in life. actually
>im broke right now. im
>only making $60k/week so im
>all for brian if he
>ca find out a way
>to make a buck cuz
>my dumbass sure cant.
>and no im not gonna spell
>check this so some dumbazzcant
>ridicule my english. the stupid
>will always ridicule the more

Hey stinkbug!

I Hear there's alot of Money in PIMPING!

You Tried that yet?:D

Man, you guys have been keeping my ad here lively! The thread wasn't meant to be a debate, but..........

Here's another pic I had on my phone. This one should be a taker for nearly everyone hunting western Wyoming. This buck here was spied up until the night before the hunt, then vanished. Nope, they're not easy to get. Many days were spent looking, but he wasn't seen by us. No guarantees, but if you know where one like this lives, you have a much better chance at killing a big buck than just showing up at any random trailhead and going in blind.

Brian Latturner
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
You PLICKS are not letting Fondler get any Sleep!

Wow! I haven't seen this much entitlement Resident whining since ID threatened to go to a points system. All this crap about "Our wildlife deserve better," is a joke. Tell it like it is. You crybabies don't want someone else revealing the location of your "local" bucks because you're afraid they might go in and kill them. I'd venture to guess that a lot of you haven't even seen some of these bucks in person but have heard of them through friends and locals. And yet, somehow that's OK even though you haven't done any of the scouting work yourself. Hypocrites, plain and simple.
Very interesting thread, I am not judging the practice here, but it seems to me that anyone that does this should have some sort of permit to outfit in the area and should pay taxes or some sort of fee to the state of Wyoming. These are Wyoming resources on federal land and it seems like neither get anything out of this situation. I think sending the photos is mostly what is probably illegal without a permit.

What does a guide need to do in order to give a drop camp, same requirements as doing a guided hunt? I understand this is not a drop camp, but it is the closest thing to that.

Also, when did the Sept. 1st rule on sheep go in? The last two times I was in Western Wyoming, I ran into sheep the week of Sept. 15th. It was wild to watch the sheep dogs run all of the bucks out of a basin that I was hunting. I got to see the bucks, running by 100 mph per hour to the next basin or the one after it. I am sure they go back and I am sure some stick tight if they can.
I find it funny that folks are going to leave the site because founder is exploiting wildlife. This type of deal has been out there for years if you knew where to look. Is the difference that Founder doesn't have a guides license, which is not required. Under the same thought process guides would also be exploiters. If you found a nice buck and told someone where to go wouldn't you be guilty of the same thing. I get tons of PMs asking for advice on where to find deer. I didn't realize that you had to keep it all to yourself to be a true ethical hunter. I'm guessing some of the bad reactions are from folks who hunt in the general area that founder has taken pictures. If true it might be a bit more about "me" then this being a unethical dastardly deal.

So everybody that doesn't agree with what Founder is doing doesn't agree with an outfitter providing the same scouting package? Isn't it the same thing?

I don't think this has anything to do with a hunter being lazy. The hunter still has to hike in the 6 or more miles and camp and be able to find the deer he is looking for. This is helping someone pointing them in the right direction that doesn't have the time to do it.
The best thing that could be done for the deer herd in G and H would be limiting the resident hunting end of story. Can't believe Wyo game and fish can't figure that one out.

Nothing at all wrong with what Founder is offering if it's legal and doesn't conflict with the guide laws and it sounds like he has done his homework on that.

And I plus 1 on Marley's comments.
Founder, I plan to hunt H this year and am curious about the pictures you have posted. 10 years worth of scouting or are these more recent?
LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-16 AT 09:33PM (MST)[p]I heard about this post, but didn't believe it until I saw it.

I'm taking my 8 year old grandsons hunting turkey this year. One has already been successful.

Commercialization, pimping, illegal outfitting, no matter what it is or seems it is; I hope our sport survives long enough my grandkids can experience at least some of what I have. What bothers me is they will have to put up with this kind of behavior no doubt and worse I'm sure.
Let's see here:

MOTL (Milk on the Lip) Buck Info = 995.00

Sub PISSCUTTER Buck Info = 1,595.00

PISSCUTTER Buck Info = 2,595.00

150" Class Buck Info = 3,595.00

170" Class Buck Info = 5,595.00

180" Class Buck Info = 6,995.00

Still waitin on what that 260" Class Buck Info will Cost?

(((I'll probably get told:If You have to Ask,You Can't afford it!:D)))

This is unbelievable! I really doubt that anyone who would use this service isn't going to kill a buck anyway. Maybe it will be a younger one that has more years left... Maybe not. But it is too much hunting pressure that detracts from the perceived quality of the G or H deer hunt here, not some purchased info on where a few big bucks live. If there were only a few big bucks..... Beginning of the end of hunting as we know it? Really? Where do you draw the like? if you live close and are a resident, you can scout s log and go every year. Is it fair to expect someone who lives 1000 miles away with 2 weeks per year vacation snd never hunted it before to play on that same field? It looks like a once in 5+ years deal now and getting longer. A nonresident who lives a long ways away just is not going to be able to do it right, as some here say. And it would still be hunting... No guarantees on anything. Worth it? Decide on your own. Who is to say?

I'll consider it if I don't draw CO. I have never hunted G. My 9 points is more than I need:)
I'll say it again. This is classic entitlement, hypocritical resident whining. They feel entitled to these bucks by virtue of the fact that they live in WY. Take a look at the most vocal of the whiners. Notice how most of the them have WY in their forum name? Guarantee you they're the same guys who garner information from other "locals" and hunt those bucks without ever laying scouting eyes on them themselves. And yet, they feel entitled to harvest those bucks simply by virtue of the fact that they live within WY's borders. By god, no NR should have access to any of that valuable information that they got for free! And yet, those deer somehow deserve better. You want them to get the "better" they deserve? How about turning G and H into draws for WY Residents too instead of the massive overharvest that is occurring now due to all the locals with Gen tags overhunting the units? That would be best for the herd as 300WBY said. But no, you whiners are all about respecting the wildlife and not exploiting it. Give me a break.
I guess I don't understand why so many want a G or H tag if there is such an over harvest by the residents of Wyoming.
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-16 AT 09:01AM (MST)[p]I wonder what state the guys calling for resident draws are from. Im going to guess Utah and California.
As a guide and former outfitter in Wyoming I promise you Founder you will need a permit to do what you plan on. You do not need one from the Forest Service but you do need one from the Wyoming Board of Outfitters. Your consulting business will qualify as an illegal outfitting operation. If you do continue with this plan and do not get the proper permit not only you but your clients will be punished. There is not much I despise more than an illegal outfitter. I strongly suggest you contact the Wyoming Board of Outfitters at (307)635-1589.

>I find it funny that folks
>are going to leave the
>site because founder is exploiting
>wildlife. This type of deal
>has been out there for
>years if you knew where
>to look. Is the difference
>that Founder doesn't have a
>guides license, which is not
>required. Under the same thought
>process guides would also be
>exploiters. If you found a
>nice buck and told someone
>where to go wouldn't you
>be guilty of the same
>thing. I get tons of
>PMs asking for advice on
>where to find deer. I
>didn't realize that you had
>to keep it all to
>yourself to be a true
>ethical hunter. I'm guessing some
>of the bad reactions are
>from folks who hunt in
>the general area that founder
>has taken pictures. If
>true it might be a
>bit more about "me" then
>this being a unethical dastardly
What a response this has generated! I was following when it first came out but had not looked for a few days.
First off this is not ment to hijack this post in any way, but my name was brought up above by someone, so I will respond. The services that I had offered a little while back is being compared with this and I would like to say, I do not believe they are even close in comparison.
I was and am offering to take 1 person with me on a hunt. That is all and that is all it ever was. I believe I stated then I was not interested in any money at all just wanted to go on a like hunt with them in another state. Not the same be a long shot imo!

Now that being said, although I could very easily offer the same thing that Brian is offering here I wouldn't. And yes it is for the very simple fact that I do not want say 10 to 20 different people knowing what I spend all summer learning. The same reason I don't tell my friends any of that info either. But I really can not see that this is any different in any way then spending much more for a guide as far as the deer are concerned. If I was an out of state hunter that did not have the time, money, ect to at least make two scouting trips, I would be all ever this! And for those that are on your huge soapbox about it, I bet you all have done this in one way or another!! Someone has told you or you have told others about places. Make no mistake about it, anyone that takes Brian up on this offer will have a leg up on others going in blind but it is still far from a slam dunk! Still have to pack in, deal with weather, find the deer, get within distance, make the shot, maybe hold out while seeing a few of the other bucks in the area for a few days, ect ect...

To hit on a few things said above, I am a wyo. resident and I think they should limit the resident tags in G and H. Make us pick and area and hunt it, instead of being able to hunt most of the state on a gen tag. I also think the point system should be changed to the lowest person in the group points instead of average.

As a few have kind of hit on already, we are all sportsmen. We all have common interests and should try to stick together as much as possible. As long as no laws are being broken why does it matter to you if person A does it this way while person B does it that way. I try not to be the "not in my back yard" guy, and I would think some others should maybe try a little harder to be that way also.
Let's boil this all down as to why some people see this as disgusting.

There is a word that was once widely used and associated with hunting. That word is SPORTSMANSHIP!

Ethics have been replaced with Mighty hunter/Little Man syndrome.

Founder, how much would it cost for the names of your client list? That way when these people show up here with their hero photos of their monster muley, we can know what type of hunter they really are.
wouldn't him calling the Wyoming Board of Outfitters about this be like asking the fox how best to keep him out of the chickens? Not trying to be a smarta@@ just want to know if that is the right people to be in contact with the find out the laws. Wouldn't you want to be in touch with whoever it is that enforces the said laws? And who exactly is that?
For Those Interested in My Consulting......

Feel free to call me if you have any concerns regarding comments expressed in some of the previous posts.

Does this one look like a taker to you? This buck lived in a very rugged, steep rocky area. He might interest someone looking for a 175-185 type of buck.

Brian Latturner
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
My concern is NOT that Brian is engaging in a totally legit activity( providing, of course, that he abide by all applicable laws, etc.) JM77 hit on it with his post. It's all about the future of hunting. So much emphasis nowdays is on the so-called "trophy".

How many poachers and liars have been posted on MM in the past few months? The guy that killed the elk on the high fence ranch and claimed it was fair chase. Nate Strong poaches a huge mulie. To cite just a couple of examples. Why did those guys do what they did? It's the constant never-ending quest to be relevant in today's hunting world! If these guys hadn't been caught, they would have been considered great hunters by lots of people. Kirt Darner?? I though he was the greatest mulie hunter on Earth until he was caught in his big lie! It's all about ego and fame. Now-I'm not saying Brian offering his services and knowledge will make someone poach or make false claims on a trophy. BUT IT ALL FEEDS INTO IT!! How does this look to non-hunters? Most folks( around 80%) are not opposed to hunting in this country. Most don't care. But many hunters actions could make them form an opinion. A negative one. Anyone who thinks this doesn't matter has their head in the sand.

Most of us are guilty of wildlife commercialization of some sort in our lives; or have been. Myself included. But not so much as I get older.

I have offered information to a few folks here on MM. You guys know who you are. Every single one of them killed a nice animal...deer, elk, antelope. All I asked of them was to NOT post it on MM or anywhere else. I wanted neither the notoriety nor the "fame". Thankfully, they all complied with that request. No fees requested, and none offered.

No ill will towards anyone for attempting to make a buck off our wildlife...I just wish it wasn't so. I have seen many changes to Wyoming's mule deer herds over the past 40+ years( since I started paying attention). The numbers of mature bucks has dwindled in accordance with the total numbers of deer. Do you guys remember the hay-days of big bucks in Utah? What do you suppose happened to them???

Anyone who doesn't think mature buck numbers will dwindle as a result of over-hunting the resource under the current management scheme is delusional.

Oh, and Stomper- YOU'RE AWESOME!!! Wish I was like you.

Carry on.
I remember my grandpa telling me the same thing when I was 8 or so... I sure hope you will be able to grow up and still be able to do this but I doubt it the way things are going he would say. Well I am glad he was wrong on that one. haha probably the only thing he was ever wrong about! It is always changing and laws and regulations will have to change with it.

The Nate Strongs and such of this world are who they are imo. They have no moral compass!

This cat was let out of the bag way back when outfitters and landowners figured out that people would pay money to hunt with them or on their land. How long ago did that all start happening? I would guess more than 50 years ago for outfitters out west. What about commissioners tags and such? I love the idea and if I had the money I would have one in my pocket every year, but talk about putting a price on a big deer, elk, whatever have you.

Nontypical, I pretty much agree with everything you posted above to a point, I just don't see the demise of our great sport because of it.

I agree with you 100 percent about the current management scheme! That is where the problem is for sure!! But if the way they manage the deer doesn't change and there is a demand by so many for a trophy class buck someone will fill that demand! Less tags for non residents and residents alike needs to happen!
I apologize I might be wrong about the illegal outfitting claim. I spoke before being 100% sure that it is illegal outfitting. It is hard for me to understand the Wyoming Board of Outfitters definition of a guide service but now that I have read it a few more time I'm pretty sure you have to accompany the hunter in the field. So again I apologize for not being 100% certain but I would still urge Founder and anyone using his consulting service to check with the Wyoming Board of Outfitters first it may save you a lot of headache in the future.
OK, I'll offer my 2 cents ? IMO this discussion thread is more about the unwritten rule that's been around forever that says a hunter is strictly forbidden from sharing with anybody, except the absolute closest hunting buddy, any information about where to find a big buck - which then gets aggravated by the whole Res vs. Non-Res thing. I believe the future of hunting is threatened more by lack of public access, permit/tag availability/cost, habitat loss & human activity (i.e. atv?s, roads, trails). Personally, I fear the day when there aren't any big bucks to scout and/or hunt. I've made a personal commitment during the past few years, after a lifetime of hunting (63+ yrs at this point), to share information with other hunters in a spirit of passing on to others what I've learned over the years, but do it in a reasoned, measured, appropriate and ethical manner. The reality is that we live in an age when some us don't have the time to scout areas where we are fortunate enough to draw permits ? my own experience is that I can't beat the odds to draw a tag for my favorite hunting areas (or areas I would like to hunt) so I end up getting a tag for an area that I'm not familiar with and wish that someone would share some info about that area to give me a foot up or at least a clue about where to start. I enjoy as much as anyone the challenge of learning a new area, but I'm getting (too) old now to be able to learn about all the areas I would like to hunt. Scouting services/packages for pay are already offered by numerous folks and I think Founder's approach is OK based on what I know about him-we have the means & technology to make such scouting packages possible but they still require a hunter to ultimately do the on-the-ground work themselves. IMO what is disappointing are those (typically residents) who follow a big buck virtually 24/7, give it a name, and then get paid a ?finder?s fee? for providing that info to an outfitter/guide who then uses their posse of scouters to find the buck for a client. My thoughts, just something to think about.
I live in the area Founder hunts and the areas he no doubt is finding many of these bucks. I just don't see it as any more or less exploitative than outfitting and guiding ever has been. All the more power to anyone who wants to hunt this country or who wants to purchase info to give them a little edge. As Founder and others will tell you, most of those big bucks are hunted by multiple hunters. In any case, knowing what basin a buck is likely to be hanging out in is not the same as knowing how to hunt it.

People will always have disagreements about ethics. The self-righteous will expect others to adopt their's.

As far as resident over hunting is concerned, there are serious deer hunters in the areas, but elk is king in Western Wyoming. If you can't have a good hunt in this area, you might reconsider what makes a good hunt.
>I'm sure he's got guys lining
>up to split their points
>with him. How else
>can you continually draw the
>tag year after year?
>I honestly hope Wyoming can change
>their points approach and move
>to the type where the
>guy with the lowest number
>of points in the group
>is what you get going
>into the draw...no more averaging!!
>This is honestly a sad post
>about where mule deer hunting
>has gone and where it
>will continue to go.
>The Greys River deer have
>no chance! Between outfitters,
>scouting, long range shooting, planes,
>unlimited residents, too many non
>residents, expanding predators, loss of
>habitat, and now people like
>founder and tkneaz trading or
>selling their info for their
>own personal gain, these deer
>are in trouble and it
>will only continue to get
>Thanks for continuing the trend of
>pimping tags, making hunting a
>rich mans sport, and ruining
>hunting for future generations!
>Honestly founder, I feel you stooped
>to a level I never
>expected. I know it
>means nothing to you but
>I'm about done with this
>Why don't you scout and sell
>info for your own state!..easier
>to send people into other
>guys honey holes that you
>may not actually hunt every
>year?..kinda out of sight out
>of mind? Or is
>it that our hunting (I'm
>a former tard so I
>know the differences) is that
>much better and in higher

I couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks for putting my thoughts into words!

[font face="verdana" color="green"]
Jake Swensen
Resident success rates are often lower in those areas, and in some cases 1/2 of nonresident success, depending on the area.

Not going to tell founder his business. He might sell a few packages, but the guys still have to find and kill the deer. The effort it takes to do that up there will eat most guys lunch, which is the reason there are still some nice bucks running around up there.

More effort in worrying and complaining should be placed on habitat loss and disturbance, especially on winter range.
I read this entire post. It is not something that I would offer to do. I am curious if Founder considered the criminal liability for engaging in this practice. Lets say you sell someone the gps location and pictures of a big buck in G or H. That person, knowing the hunting pressure that these bucks receive, decides to go in and poach the buck that the Founder has provided him with the information on. Would there be criminal accessory issues arising from providing that information? That alone, would be ample reason, for me not to pursue such an activity. I think that Founder really needs to think this through before crossing the line he is proposing.

just sayin...mh

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