Wyoming NR Elk

I understand a lot of NR's being upset about this but keep in mind it might just be a way to slow the growth of NR elk applicants. I believe it grew another 2.3% this year. Seems it just keeps going up. Wyo has a great product and the demand is there. If this even just slows it then that might be a benefit to those that can manage the 4 months of lost investment revenue from your application money. Since that's the only complaint that I can see.

I personally doubt there will be any appreciable drop in applications but it certainly wont make them go up. My two cents.
 
I think a lot of us aren't too worked up about knowing the results in June.

It's the cave-in to the outfitters that annoys me.
 
>I think a lot of us
>aren't too worked up about
>knowing the results in June.
>
>
>It's the cave-in to the outfitters
>that annoys me.

If this is the best WyOGA gets then I am fine with that. Scraps at best.
 
the wygf don't want to slow applications. they want more apps. that equals more money. game agencies across the west seem to make as much or more money from apps and points than they do from licenses. this change doesn't bother me.
 
I don't see how this couldn't bother most everyone?! This is beyond anything I've ever heard of. The first to have to apply and the last to release results. That's a joke! The biggest issue for most ppl is it handicaps where u can apply in other states because u don't know? There is obviously some timeframes where apps overlap but nothing of this magnitude in other states
 
Thomas, how often have you been surprised you drew an elk tag in Wyo? Serious question, not trying to be a smartass.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 01:07PM (MST)[p]>>I think a lot of us
>>aren't too worked up about
>>knowing the results in June.
>>
>>
>>It's the cave-in to the outfitters
>>that annoys me.
>
>If this is the best WyOGA
>gets then I am fine
>with that. Scraps at
>best.

For sure. Nonresidents will now be able to see seasons and quotas, after they are set and approved, and will be able to modify their applications as they see fit.
 
I don't like it but I'm still going to apply. Maybe Buzz, JM, or someone else in the know can shed some light on what the intent of leaving the application deadline Jan 31 is?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 02:16PM (MST)[p]>I don't like it but I'm
>still going to apply. Maybe
>Buzz, JM, or someone else
>in the know can shed
>some light on what the
>intent of leaving the application
>deadline Jan 31 is?


Outfitters want their clients hopefully locked up in January.

What I would like to know is would making the nonresident elk application period the same as residents make any financial difference to outfitters. I bet it wouldn't hurt them a bit.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 02:18PM (MST)[p]If you can still modify your application until May 8th then a guy could alter his app to be sure not to draw a tag. Or alter it so at least if he did draw it?d be a blockbuster tag. I'm not sure any of that makes sense, but it wouldn't be hard to ?not draw? a tag after the application deadline is all I'm saying.
 
Why not just move the NR Elk application period to the same dates as WY resident draw? Like they did with deer/antelope a few years back.
 
That's true, you can delete/modify if necessary, but I don't like the long period of holding the money.

Heck, Wyoming should go ahead and start an outfitter pool just like New Mexico. :)
 
>
>What I would like to know
>is would making the nonresident
>elk application period the same
>as residents make any financial
>difference to outfitters. I bet
>it wouldn't hurt them a
>bit.

I don't know enough about the outfitting business to know for sure but I could see if the Outfitter had significant upfront costs prior to the hunting season that they needed early in the year revenue to cover, then having the app deadline earlier and therefore getting hunt deposit money earlier would help.

I would think that the bulk of the people under a PP system like Wyo has are fairly certain if they will draw and therefore they have plans made ahead of the draw and slots locked up with outfitters before June. Only been on two Outfitted hunts both with guaranteed tags and I had those dates and deposits done years before the actual hunt. Obviously different when the tag is not a guarantee.

I don't see the date they lock in deposits as being that significant an issue whether its January or June but I don't live their business so I could be wrong.
 
>Thomas, how often have you been
>surprised you drew an elk
>tag in Wyo? Serious
>question, not trying to be
>a smartass.


Well never! But I have actually been surprised when I haven't as the last two yrs. I somewhat planned my app strategy in AZ based on drawing WY but due to point creep it has cost me both yrs. I do get that w a PP system there shouldn't be any surprises but w point creep there u can't count on drawing for sure unless u r way ahead of the point curve and most folks don't do that
 
>That's true, you can delete/modify if
>necessary, but I don't like
>the long period of holding
>the money.
>
>Heck, Wyoming should go ahead and
>start an outfitter pool just
>like New Mexico. :)


Exactly!! What a joke that is in NM.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 03:14PM (MST)[p]What is the huge disadvantage to just moving the draw for both R and NR to before all the seasons, Quotos etc are passed? I mean don't most other states have their draws before ?officially? passing their set quotas? I know Utah,CO and NV do. I mean I do get and understand u r applying for something that hadnt neccesarliy been finalized. But we know this going in and very seldomly do the quotas ext change drastically?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19
>AT 03:14?PM (MST)
>
>What is the huge disadvantage to
>just moving the draw for
>both R and NR to
>before all the seasons, Quotos
>etc are passed? I mean
>don't most other states have
>their draws before ?officially? passing
>their set quotas? I know
>Utah,CO and NV do.
>I mean I do get
>and understand u r applying
>for something that hadnt neccesarliy
>been finalized. But we know
>this going in and very
>seldomly do the quotas ext
>change drastically?

There have been hunts that were added after NR's applied. Those tags went entirely to res hunters. There have been spike only tags that were hunters were allowed to shot any bull because changes were requested after the NR draw happened. There have been instances where more than the required 16% allocation of LQ tags went to NR hunters, denying res hunters the tags they are suppose to get. The opposite has happened.

Any time I hear someone say other States do it so Wyoming should I immediately think bad idea. Particularly if UT is doing it. Wyoming is doing better at managing its elk than any other State. Issuing tags after the G&F has set seasons and tag quotas is a no brainer. Even if we have to wait 3 months longer.
 
Of all the things G&F from around the west have done to screw hunters, I don't think I'll worry about this one.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19
>>AT 03:14?PM (MST)
>>
>>What is the huge disadvantage to
>>just moving the draw for
>>both R and NR to
>>before all the seasons, Quotos
>>etc are passed? I mean
>>don't most other states have
>>their draws before ?officially? passing
>>their set quotas? I know
>>Utah,CO and NV do.
>>I mean I do get
>>and understand u r applying
>>for something that hadnt neccesarliy
>>been finalized. But we know
>>this going in and very
>>seldomly do the quotas ext
>>change drastically?
>
>There have been hunts that were
>added after NR's applied.
>Those tags went entirely to
>res hunters. There have
>been spike only tags that
>were hunters were allowed to
>shot any bull because changes
>were requested after the NR
>draw happened. There have
>been instances where more than
>the required 16% allocation of
>LQ tags went to NR
>hunters, denying res hunters the
>tags they are suppose to
>get. The opposite has
>happened.
>
>Any time I hear someone say
>other States do it so
>Wyoming should I immediately think
>bad idea. Particularly if
>UT is doing it.
>Wyoming is doing better at
>managing its elk than any
>other State. Issuing tags
>after the G&F has set
>seasons and tag quotas is
>a no brainer. Even
>if we have to wait
>3 months longer.
That's fair enough. If WY wants the draw after all this been passed and quotas,seasons, hunts are set then move the app deadline to coincide as well. Otherwise we still don't really know what we are applying for and obviously we still couldn't apply for hunts that aren't set anyway as u mentioned above. This doesn't help NR at all if we have still apply early before these hunts have been created. There is absolutely no reason to have the deadline of Jan then if all this above is the case.
 
>That's fair enough. If WY wants
>the draw after all this
>been passed and quotas,seasons, hunts
>are set then move the
>app deadline to coincide as
>well. Otherwise we still don't
>really know what we are
>applying for and obviously we
>still couldn't apply for hunts
>that aren't set anyway as
>u mentioned above. This doesn't
>help NR at all if
>we have still apply early
>before these hunts have been
>created. There is absolutely no
>reason to have the deadline
>of Jan then if all
>this above is the case.
>

You can modify your application until May 8th after all seasons and quotas are set. That's already been said...
 
I dont know how many non res apply annually ,but at 692 a head kept for 4 months should not have you wondering why they would do it that way.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 05:55PM (MST)[p]If only Colorado gave us a chance to modify after the 2019 quotas.

Bravo to Wyoming for at least giving all of us that option. Maybe move the NR elk deadline up to with moose.
 
>
>>That's fair enough. If WY wants
>>the draw after all this
>>been passed and quotas,seasons, hunts
>>are set then move the
>>app deadline to coincide as
>>well. Otherwise we still don't
>>really know what we are
>>applying for and obviously we
>>still couldn't apply for hunts
>>that aren't set anyway as
>>u mentioned above. This doesn't
>>help NR at all if
>>we have still apply early
>>before these hunts have been
>>created. There is absolutely no
>>reason to have the deadline
>>of Jan then if all
>>this above is the case.
>>
>
>You can modify your application until
>May 8th after all seasons
>and quotas are set. That's
>already been said...

Yes I've read that but what exactly does that mean? Can u delete it? Or can u change units? Do u lose your money or bonus pts if u delete etc? I haven't read any clarification of what that means?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 06:41PM (MST)[p]"You can modify your application until May 8th after all seasons and quotas are set. That's already been said..."

Have they changed the rules to allow modifying apps??
Last time I tried you had to withdraw and reapply.
They kept my money until after the draw.
And I had to pay a new application and tag fee.
 
>>You can modify your application until
>>May 8th after all seasons
>>and quotas are set. That's
>>already been said...
>
>Yes I've read that but what
>exactly does that mean? Can
>u delete it? Or can
>u change units? Do u
>lose your money or bonus
>pts if u delete etc?
>I haven't read any clarification
>of what that means?


It means modify, you can change areas and/or types.
 
You can delete an app or change units, but cannot change fees (special to regular). You don't lose any points.

Can one jump out of or into a group or does the group do what the leader does?
 
>You can delete an app or
>change units, but cannot change
>fees (special to regular). You
>don't lose any points.
>
>Can one jump out of or
>into a group or does
>the group do what the
>leader does?


So can u delete an app and get a refund? Or just change units?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-19 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]You can always choose option 2....if you don't like it, don't apply. Pretty simple isn't it.
 
>>You can delete an app or
>>change units, but cannot change
>>fees (special to regular). You
>>don't lose any points.
>>
>>Can one jump out of or
>>into a group or does
>>the group do what the
>>leader does?
>
>
>So can u delete an app
>and get a refund? Or
>just change units?


You can delete, change hunt areas, and change hunt choices.

You can't move into a group because you need to link to the party leader at time of application. You can leave the group by withdrawing the application.
 
One thing about Wyoming is they always take care of their guides. Wilderness rule, 4 month wait for elk. WYOGA treats Game and Fish like something out of 50 shades of Grey.
 
>One thing about Wyoming is they
>always take care of their
>guides. Wilderness rule, 4
>month wait for elk.
>WYOGA treats Game and Fish
>like something out of 50
>shades of Grey.


Why would any outfitter want to wait 4 months before knowing what their entire year of financial income will be? Funny how non-res blame the outfitting for everything, when in reality the outfitting is the main organization that fights for non-resident tags cause without them they have no business.
 
When the head of WYOGA tells the Commission they're OK with moving the date provided the app period stays in January, where to place the blame is pretty obvious.
 
>When the head of WYOGA tells
>the Commission they're OK with
>moving the date provided the
>app period stays in January,
>where to place the blame
>is pretty obvious.

Those pesky facts...in particular when they're recorded.
 
>When the head of WYOGA tells
>the Commission they're OK with
>moving the date provided the
>app period stays in January,
>where to place the blame
>is pretty obvious.


^^^^Boom!
 
Why couldn't they have at least thrown us NR a bone and gave up the wilderness rule? That's a deal I would accept.
 
>>When the head of WYOGA tells
>>the Commission they're OK with
>>moving the date provided the
>>app period stays in January,
>>where to place the blame
>>is pretty obvious.
>
>Those pesky facts...in particular when they're
>recorded.

That ?recorded? thing will get you every time...


'Ike'

Bowhunter...
 
>When the head of WYOGA tells
>the Commission they're OK with
>moving the date provided the
>app period stays in January,
>where to place the blame
>is pretty obvious.

Still doesn't make sense and i doubt most outfitters are in favor. Considering Wyoga doesn't represent all outfitters in the state, and those at the head of it aren't exactly the most well liked. It's just politics i guess. Glad i have no bone in the fight.
 
Maybe they think that their clients will still apply at the same rate vs DIY non-residents who are not going to want to wait 4 months, so their clients will have better odds? I know for me, it might affect me applying or not.
 
If you go to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department website, the online comment period is open.

Nonresident elk draw ? The proposed modify/withdraw date is May 8. The application period will remain the month of January. Tentatively, the draw results will be released prior to the close of the deer and antelope application deadline in May.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/News/Game-and-F...pen-for-huntin
 
go to the main website and follow the link to NEWS. There are articles on the proposed change and comment periods, links to the regs, and an online form that you can submit. I just did it.
 
>They pretty much butchered the plan
>to combine the draws.

Yeah I was afraid that might happen. My guess is someone that understood the Wyoming draw realized they wanted the resident draw separate from the nonresident.
 
So if we just agree that it is a good idea to have the draw after the season setting meetings is the only concern with the proposed regulation that you have to apply in Jan but they don't draw until May?

Seems like the proposal to draw elk before that app deadline for deer and antelope is a nice concession. I heard the complaint on other boards that NR would like to know their elk hunts prior to planning a deer or antelope hunt.

Is there something else that I am missing?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-19 AT 09:01AM (MST)[p]App period ends in January so all I can do is change areas or withdraw after the seasons are set; I can't move from Regular to Special or add a RP Elk license based on updated seasons/quotas. Those would be a new application and can't be done in the modify period. Had the application date been moved to coincide with Deer/Antelope, I could have made those changes.
They also have my money until May, which I now can't use to apply for AZ or NM. According to another member's email reply from an outfitter, that was the goal.
 
I see where your going. By having the app period in Jan with some ability to modify in early May you are still making hunt choices on incomplete information. I got it about right?

Just make the NR elk, deer and antelope the exact same timeline as res E,D and A seems to be the simplest and most straightforward approach. Agree?
 
>I see where your going.
>By having the app period
>in Jan with some ability
>to modify in early May
>you are still making hunt
>choices on incomplete information.
>I got it about right?
>
>
>Just make the NR elk, deer
>and antelope the exact same
>timeline as res E,D and
>A seems to be the
>simplest and most straightforward approach.
> Agree?

U would be correct. But as has been said, the outfitters aren't allowing this happen. It's 100% outfitter driven to keep the draw app deadline in Jan which only benefits them. I have no issues w ppl that use outfitters or in general. But don't force something down my throat! If someone wants to use to an outfitter they will, but don't manipulate the draw. That's taking it too far.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-19 AT 12:08PM (MST)[p]>I see where your going.
>By having the app period
>in Jan with some ability
>to modify in early May
>you are still making hunt
>choices on incomplete information.
>I got it about right?
>

No, We will have complete information but under the current "modify" rules, we can only withdraw or change hunt areas within the same price draw. We can't move our app from regular price to special price, nor could we add a reduced price license as those are considered new applications. We're basically stuck where we applied.

>
>Just make the NR elk, deer
>and antelope the exact same
>timeline as res E,D and
>A seems to be the
>simplest and most straightforward approach.
> Agree?

I was under the impression that combining nr Elk with Deer/Antelope was the course of action when I watched the commission meeting, then I got a text with this current proposal as the one being drafted by the Dept. That information was confirmed in a phone call to the draw dept a cpl weeks ago. I mentioned this current proposal had never been mentioned publicly and asked when the Commission Notebooks would be published. The dept has since published the proposal to their news feed, unfortunately, just before the comment period closes.

We (NR) would be better off if they just left it alone vs these proposed dates. Best scenario for everyone except outfitters hell bent on tying up customers money would be to combine the nr Elk draw with Deer/Antelope.
 
I agree with that.

I commented to go back to the old way (2019) or make the NR elk application period/draw dates the exact same as NR antelope and deer.
 
I think I prefer this proposed way of doing it better than going to the same application period/draw date as deer/antelope.

I can apply for an elk tag, and if drawn, I won't apply for deer or antelope. If I draw elk I won't have the time or money for a deer or antelope hunt, so I'd really like to have elk results before the deer and antelope deadline.

If deer, antelope, and elk deadlines and result dates were the same, I'd just have to apply for everything, and hope I don't draw more than I have time or money for that year.
 
Holding the NR funds for 4 months is what I find a bit ridiculous. Also as stated before a NR still wouldn't have all the tags numbers and hunt choices available to them before having to submit their application. Yes you could modify it but then why not just make the application period after the numbers are released and save the hassle of even having to modify or withdrawal at all. Why still in January? Nothing logical about it except more outfitter handouts and give them first shot at clients in January before other state draws are completed. A hunter may draw a tag in another state and not apply in Wyoming that year then.
 
I wonder if they're going to make NRs buy a shed license in January and not be able to use it until May too. ?
 
>I wonder if they're going to
>make NRs buy a shed
>license in January and not
>be able to use it
>until May too. ?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good idea! A $300 NR shed license! That would bring in much needed revenue to help pay for the building of the highway over passes for migrating wildlife.


[font face="verdana" color="green"]
Jake Swensen
 
Commission meeting now online; Jennifer presents ch 44 roughly half way thru.

Nr elk results should now be out 3rd week of May, on Thursday.
 
mntnguide said:
>One thing about Wyoming is they
>always take care of their
>guides. Wilderness rule, 4
>month wait for elk.
>WYOGA treats Game and Fish
>like something out of 50
>shades of Grey.


Why would any outfitter want to wait 4 months before knowing what their entire year of financial income will be? Funny how non-res blame the outfitting for everything, when in reality the outfitting is the main organization that fights for non-resident tags cause without them they have no business.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what buzzH is, hoping for with his, anti non resident hunting stance if he can eliminate non Residents being allowed to hunt wyoming he can put the guides, out of buisness and lease,,a bunch of high grade land and keep it all for himself and his bha cronies,, NEVER HAPPEN BHA tried flexing muscles they DON'T HAVE on guides,/ranchers here in Montana, it didn't go well for them ,
 

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