Wyoming Resident hunters lobby group

All of my Wyoming friends are Conservatives , Wyoming is the reddest state in the nation. The only people that might be Demoncrats are one's that work for the government, oh wait!!
Does Buzz work for the government? I thought he was a lawyer. Maybe both?
 
I don't think it is radical to think that Wyoming should offer more non-resident tags than the other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is the wealthiest western state when it comes to resident big game hunting opportunities. As a result, they have more (in terms of percentage of total tags) to share with those less fortunate non-residents than the other states do. Wyoming can afford to share a little more because they have more available to share. Wyoming is wealthy or rich when it comes to big game hunting.

This is similar to the progressive tax rate system we have in the United States. The wealthier are taxed at a higher rate than those that are not wealthy because they have more available to share with the less fortunate.

It seems to me Wyoming could afford to share a little more and still maintain a high quality level of hunting for their residents.



JMO
I’ll have what you’re smoking. You can share your bank accounts, credit cards, pick-up and your women with us, then we’ll talk.
 
All of my Wyoming friends are Conservatives , Wyoming is the reddest state in the nation. The only people that might be Demoncrats are one's that work for the government, oh wait!!
Really azzwipe? You're showing your azz right now.
 
As a Utah resident, you Wyoming boys need to circle your wagons on 90/10. Not as some dumbass "payback" to other states. Other states aren't your problem.

Your problem is the EXACT same as other states. CORPORATE HUNTING. Giving the corporate side wins, simply depletes your power with every one of them.

In my state, in the early 90's, a group got formed to "give power to the average joe", today it's the lobbying arm for our corporate hunting buisnesses, sucking up hundreds of tags, and millions of dollars.

At one time $fw didn't have power, and had few wins. We here fell asleep, or were bamboozled by good PR work, and are now at Corporate huntings mercy.

Wyoming doesn't have $fw, but does have WYOGA.

You guys need to beat back that cancer whenever it pushes anything, or, just look to the southwest, at what's coming long term, if you allow them any wins.
 
I don't think it is radical to think that Wyoming should offer more non-resident tags than the other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is the wealthiest western state when it comes to resident big game hunting opportunities. As a result, they have more (in terms of percentage of total tags) to share with those less fortunate non-residents than the other states do. Wyoming can afford to share a little more because they have more available to share. Wyoming is wealthy or rich when it comes to big game hunting.

This is similar to the progressive tax rate system we have in the United States. The wealthier are taxed at a higher rate than those that are not wealthy because they have more available to share with the less fortunate.

It seems to me Wyoming could afford to share a little more and still maintain a high quality level of hunting for their residents.



JMO
Excavator:
I don't think it is radical to think that your state should offer money and cash payments to Wyoming residents along with other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is per Capita one of the poorer western state when it comes to resident job and income opportunities. As a result, they have much less with those surrounding states and more fortunate non-residents in the other Western states do. Your state can afford to share a little more money and income with us because they have more available to share. Your state is wealthy or rich when it comes to income and job opportunities so please share with us poor Wyoming residents.
 
Excavator:
I don't think it is radical to think that your state should offer money and cash payments to Wyoming residents along with other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is per Capita one of the poorer western state when it comes to resident job and income opportunities. As a result, they have much less with those surrounding states and more fortunate non-residents in the other Western states do. Your state can afford to share a little more money and income with us because they have more available to share. Your state is wealthy or rich when it comes to income and job opportunities so please share with us poor Wyoming residents.

If my state sends you money it is a result of my state's residents creating that tax revenue through their work or production. Why would you be entitled to something somebody else worked for, and you never contributed a single cent in creating?

In contrast, the wealth of big game you have in your state is
disproportionately funded by those that don't even live there.

Hopefully that make sense to you.
 
You do realize you worship the ground of a liberal, right? Buzz is your messiah, and you know it.
You make Sierra look like a genius.
If my state sends you money it is a result of my state's residents creating that tax revenue through their work or production. Why would you be entitled to something somebody else worked for, and you never contributed a single cent in creating?

In contrast, the wealth of big game you have in your state is
disproportionately funded by those that don't even live there.

Hopefully that make sense to you.
Nothing you ever post makes sense.
 
If my state sends you money it is a result of my state's residents creating that tax revenue through their work or production. Why would you be entitled to something somebody else worked for, and you never contributed a single cent in creating?

In contrast, the wealth of big game you have in your state is
disproportionately funded by those that don't even live there.

Hopefully that make sense to you.
Welp I was hoping the edibles I ate would help me make sense of your ramblings. I was wrong.
 
If, after reading what I was responding to, you truly can’t comprehend what I am saying, I am not sure there is a lot I can do to help you.
 
I do believe residents of the state own the game and overall a 90/10 split is fair. Regardless of what you might believe, it really isn't as simple as a 90/10 split in most western states. There are very generous western states like Colorado and Wyoming and then there are other states such as Oregon that are not worth applying in for most nonresidents.

There are two problems I see with the 90/10 split in Wyoming.

#1 Money
Do you really think Wyoming will be able to generate enough $$ from increasing resident and nonresidents fees to make up the lost $$ from a 90/10 split? It won't be as easy for the G&F budget as some of you may think it is. There is also going to be a significant $$ decrease for some local economies that have benefited from nonresident hunters. Currently many people feel good about the economy but the oil money in Wyoming isn't something that is guaranteed in the future. The Idaho F&G took a hit when the economy tanked about 12 years ago when Idaho took nonresidents $$ for granted. Nonresidents hold grudges and some will not be coming back. Wyoming may be ok with a 90/10 split for a year or two but when the economy tanks, the Wyoming G&F budget will take a major hit. I hope they prepare for it.

#2 "Bait and switch"
Significantly changing the rules after someone has invested considerable cash and years could get challenged in court. Look at it from the nonresidents perspective that has been building points for years to suddenly have the rules changed on them after donating considerable $$ for those points. I see point systems as the scam that they are but many nonresidents will feel more cheated than I do. I feel really bad for those guys that are just starting out applying as nonresidents and they don't fully understand how worthless the "points" really are.

I do have a problem with the Wilderness law. Any residents want to defend that garbage rule?
 
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It’s always uneducated guys like you that think you know everything.

Yeah.....And if you write with more than five words in your sentences and throw in some transitions, some of the boys from Wyoming and their like minded compadres have a hard time keeping up.
 
The points might be devalued a bit but I don’t feel a court challenge will work.

Wyoming can do what they want with their tags. I understand the resident point of view and if I were still a resident of WY, I would probably be more supportive of the 90/10 split. My bigger worry is the significant divide that the permit allocation creates for hunters.

NM is a great example. They changed their system and kind of hosed the DIY NR. Their right...fast forward a few years...a few residents are asking NR to help fight trapping bans and other hunting issues. It was posted and I agree, not really my concern. The state can do what they want with their hunting rules and It will affect me. But...I don’t really care as much as I would if I could actually hunt in that state.

The more we divide hunters, the easier it is to dismantle the current wildlife model we all enjoy. The more I see the these tag allocation issues the more I realize how destructive they are to our hunting heritage. I wish there was a standard across all the states to standardize the allocations. For me, that would be easier to swallow. However, the demonization of the dreaded NR is not good for hunting IMO.

Application numbers are at an all time high. These states that cut NR tag numbers will not see a decrease in revenue. They can charge whatever they want and the NRs will pay. As I said, I think the short term gains might not be worth the long term effects of these decisions.

Best of luck to everybody in the draws...just hoping for better luck for me?
 
Application numbers are at an all time high. These states that cut NR tag numbers will not see a decrease in revenue. They can charge whatever they want and the NRs will pay. As I said, I think the short term gains might not be worth the long term effects of these decisions.

NR will pay this year but in the long run it could hurt them. It happened in Idaho a number of years ago and many nonresidents never came back. Idaho still wanted their $$ so they were giving out second tags to residents and nonresident price and even offered a discount on that 2nd tag on more than one occasion in an attempt to get extra $$. The oil money in Wyoming is also not a guarantee in the future. I really think the Wyoming G&F is going to have some budget issues when this economy goes south, I hope they are preparing for it now. Regular nonresidents hunting NM also quit apply there several years ago and many have continued to hold a grudge. If Wyoming devalues NR bonus points, many will hold a grudge and it will hurt the bottom line in the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if guys that have been forking out $100 for a sheep point get together and take Wyoming to court over "bait and switch". The outfitters may join in or may lead that lawsuit.
 
The points might be devalued a bit but I don’t feel a court challenge will work.

Wyoming can do what they want with their tags. I understand the resident point of view and if I were still a resident of WY, I would probably be more supportive of the 90/10 split. My bigger worry is the significant divide that the permit allocation creates for hunters.

NM is a great example. They changed their system and kind of hosed the DIY NR. Their right...fast forward a few years...a few residents are asking NR to help fight trapping bans and other hunting issues. It was posted and I agree, not really my concern. The state can do what they want with their hunting rules and It will affect me. But...I don’t really care as much as I would if I could actually hunt in that state.

The more we divide hunters, the easier it is to dismantle the current wildlife model we all enjoy. The more I see the these tag allocation issues the more I realize how destructive they are to our hunting heritage. I wish there was a standard across all the states to standardize the allocations. For me, that would be easier to swallow. However, the demonization of the dreaded NR is not good for hunting IMO.

Application numbers are at an all time high. These states that cut NR tag numbers will not see a decrease in revenue. They can charge whatever they want and the NRs will pay. As I said, I think the short term gains might not be worth the long term effects of these decisions.

Best of luck to everybody in the draws...just hoping for better luck for me?
Agree. Its just like trying to get grizzlies delisted, Alaskan residents asking for support on the closures for 23 and 26a, etc. Why would non res that are getting shut out of these states care to help with either time or resources?

In a few years I will be moving to the welfare state of Wyoming. It will be tough to learn to take handouts and not pay my own way while patting myself on the back and saying how great I am. But there are plenty of Wyoming residents that seem to be able to do it just fine so maybe I'll be able to learn that also.
 
Agree. Its just like trying to get grizzlies delisted, Alaskan residents asking for support on the closures for 23 and 26a, etc. Why would non res that are getting shut out of these states care to help with either time or resources?

In a few years I will be moving to the welfare state of Wyoming. It will be tough to learn to take handouts and not pay my own way while patting myself on the back and saying how great I am. But there are plenty of Wyoming residents that seem to be able to do it just fine so maybe I'll be able to learn that also.

Your second paragraph is spot on.

I don't blame them for soaking up that welfare. I like to hunt so much I would probably do the same. But the Wyoming resident should at least be honest about the fact that they are welfare recipients.
 
Agree. Its just like trying to get grizzlies delisted, Alaskan residents asking for support on the closures for 23 and 26a, etc. Why would non res that are getting shut out of these states care to help with either time or resources?

In a few years I will be moving to the welfare state of Wyoming. It will be tough to learn to take handouts and not pay my own way while patting myself on the back and saying how great I am. But there are plenty of Wyoming residents that seem to be able to do it just fine so maybe I'll be able to learn that also.
No please don’t move here, guess better push the governor to build a wall around our borders!! ?
 
It is somewhat disingenuous to have legislation or even a conversation about 90/10 without addressing the fact WY limits NR in wilderness areas and gives some unlimited general/region resident tags. If WY wants 90/10 then let’s do it across the board and remove NR wilderness restrictions. These same issues also don’t allow for fair comparison to other states. At the end of the day WY citizens, legislators, and it’s outfitter board gonna have to figure out what is most important. Whatever y’all can wrestle together, we NR will still consider our hunting options and try to hunt the Cowboy State. I’m gonna run out of time and health before I run out of desire and money to hunt. Give me 90/10 on a Reg G deer hunt quota and I’m all in, it might even include an approach to game management instead of people management.
 
Saying it's mine I'm entitled sounds like someone who voted for the orange loser. if you want to be technical the tribes should get 90% , residents 8% and nonresidents 2% .

Living off these animals for thousands of years prior to your arrival should count more than a u haul truck rental and an address change don't you think ?

Nah, that's different .
 
Give me 90/10 on a Reg G deer hunt quota and I’m all in, it might even include an approach to game management instead of people management.
The 90/10 split on region G does sound like a good idea. How many residents that want a 90/10 split would support that?
 
Saying it's mine I'm entitled sounds like someone who voted for the orange loser. if you want to be technical the tribes should get 90% , residents 8% and nonresidents 2% .

Living off these animals for thousands of years prior to your arrival should count more than a u haul truck rental and an address change don't you think ?

Nah, that's different .
I’m all for supporting tribal hunting traditions but it should be done with traditional tribal weapons and supplies. No modern clothing, transportation or other equipment.
 
Eastmans had a rather interesting take on the 90/10 in their latest sheep edition of the magazine....

Horniac
 
I honestly don't care very much.

It's just fun to get you guys fired up and point out the fact that you guys don't pay your own way for the wildlife you have in your state.
That's kinda weird; who did you say was fired up?:ROFLMAO:

And residents pay the share we are assessed in statute and most don't complain a bit.

The 90/10 split on region G does sound like a good idea. How many residents that want a 90/10 split would support that?
Region G wouldn't change at all with 90/10. No NR regions would change.

Eastmans had a rather interesting take on the 90/10 in their latest sheep edition of the magazine....

Horniac
Yes, it was interesting and entertaining. Guy proved that he knows about as much about 90/10 as most of the nonresidents on this thread.
 
If my state sends you money it is a result of my state's residents creating that tax revenue through their work or production. Why would you be entitled to something somebody else worked for, and you never contributed a single cent in creating?

In contrast, the wealth of big game you have in your state is
disproportionately funded by those that don't even live there.

Hopefully that make sense to you.
In my state, Wyoming, the big game herds are a direct result of Wyoming landowners, Wyoming residents, politicians, legislators, Wyoming Game and Fish, Wyoming sportsmen and citizens doing the best job they can to produce the wealth of big game we have. When we cannot harvest the big game we require as Residents we have allowed Non-Residents the opportunity to hunt here. Times they are a changing. We have been far far too generous giving away far too many permits to non-residents and now Wyoming sportspersons are lobbying and working together to fix this injustice and offer what surrounding states provide ie 10% of tags to Non-residents.
In contrast, the wealth of cash and money you have in your state is
disproportionately funded by those that don't even live there.

Hopefully that make sense to you.
 
I do believe residents of the state own the game and overall a 90/10 split is fair. Regardless of what you might believe, it really isn't as simple as a 90/10 split in most western states. There are very generous western states like Colorado and Wyoming and then there are other states such as Oregon that are not worth applying in for most nonresidents.

There are two problems I see with the 90/10 split in Wyoming.

#1 Money
Do you really think Wyoming will be able to generate enough $$ from increasing resident and nonresidents fees to make up the lost $$ from a 90/10 split? It won't be as easy for the G&F budget as some of you may think it is. There is also going to be a significant $$ decrease for some local economies that have benefited from nonresident hunters. Currently many people feel good about the economy but the oil money in Wyoming isn't something that is guaranteed in the future. The Idaho F&G took a hit when the economy tanked about 12 years ago when Idaho took nonresidents $$ for granted. Nonresidents hold grudges and some will not be coming back. Wyoming may be ok with a 90/10 split for a year or two but when the economy tanks, the Wyoming G&F budget will take a major hit. I hope they prepare for it.

#2 "Bait and switch"
Significantly changing the rules after someone has invested considerable cash and years could get challenged in court. Look at it from the nonresidents perspective that has been building points for years to suddenly have the rules changed on them after donating considerable $$ for those points. I see point systems as the scam that they are but many nonresidents will feel more cheated than I do. I feel really bad for those guys that are just starting out applying as nonresidents and they don't fully understand how worthless the "points" really are.

I do have a problem with the Wilderness law. Any residents want to defend that garbage rule?
You should have stopped your post after the first statement as the rest are mere Ignorant ramblings. “ I do believe residents of the state own the game and overall a 90/10 split is fair.”

#1 Money. Yes we can fully fund and even create more money with the bill which was killed by the Outfitters. In Fact $8 million more than current.

#2Bait and Switch. Nothing was ever promised and most of those points were purchased when the state of Wyoming only charged $7 so quite a grand bargain. Now we are equalising the playing field for RESIDENTS as most other Western states now offer 90/10 so we will be on par. Giving away 25% of premium moose and goat and buffalo tags days are ending.
 
Highfastflyer,

I’m really ok with a 90/10 split. As long as residents are willing to pay more for their tags and licenses, it won’t be a problem to generate the $$ the G&F has been used to getting.

We are all residents and none residents somewhere. I strongly believe that state residents should be given a preference for tags. If any of you Wyoming residents are building points in Colorado, don’t complain when they switch to a 90/10 split. Colorado has been generous with nonresidents for deer tags.

jm77,

How many residents hunted G each year and how many nonresident tags are there in G each year? The 90/10 split could easily apply to G in the future. Idaho recently changed the nonresident allocation and now the 90/10 split applies in general season units as well. If 90/10 is ok for 128 it should also be ok for region G. Other regions could potentially see a drastic decrease in nonresident tags if the 90/10 split is applied to general season units.
 
jm77,

How many residents hunted G each year and how many nonresident tags are there in G each year? The 90/10 split could easily apply to G in the future. Idaho recently changed the nonresident allocation and now the 90/10 split applies in general season units as well. If 90/10 is ok for 128 it should also be ok for region G. Other regions could potentially see a drastic decrease in nonresident tags if the 90/10 split is applied to general season units.
90/10 does not apply to general areas, only limited quota. Region quotas would stay the same. I'm not sure why some choose to make up their own narrative about 90/10, much like Guy Eastman did. It is what it is and won't change because of a hunting forum.

Post #11 on this thread has helpful information. I guess we will see how the task force handles it.
 
Highfastflyer,

I’m really ok with a 90/10 split. As long as residents are willing to pay more for their tags and licenses, it won’t be a problem to generate the $$ the G&F has been used to getting.

We are all residents and none residents somewhere. I strongly believe that state residents should be given a preference for tags. If any of you Wyoming residents are building points in Colorado, don’t complain when they switch to a 90/10 split. Colorado has been generous with nonresidents for deer tags.

jm77,

How many residents hunted G each year and how many nonresident tags are there in G each year? The 90/10 split could easily apply to G in the future. Idaho recently changed the nonresident allocation and now the 90/10 split applies in general season units as well. If 90/10 is ok for 128 it should also be ok for region G. Other regions could potentially see a drastic decrease in nonresident tags if the 90/10 split is applied to general season units.
Here's how easy it would be to make up the difference for license dollars to the GF department under 90-10 for moose, sheep, goat, bison and LQ elk:

Total revenue to GF lost would be: $191,038 from a combination of sheep, moose, bison, and goat permits.

To make up the loss in revenue, with room to spare, raising Resident fishing licenses from $27 annually to $30 annually would raise $222,540. A simple $3 increase in resident fishing licenses would more than cover the NR license revenue.

If full 90-10 was across the board for full priced antlered/horned game, it would be a license revenue loss to the Department of $1,629,634 dollars based on 2020 quotas. (this would assume reduced priced tags stay at current splits.

To make up the revenue loss, if we raised every full priced Resident license $10...that would generate $1,486,770.

So....by raising each Resident full priced license sold here by $10 and raising Resident fishing licenses by $3, we would generate $1,709,310. More than enough to cover the license revenue loss for 90-10. Small potatoes.
 
Money can also be made up by requiring everyone to purchase a non-refundable hunting license to apply for all big game species similar to what Nevada and Utah are currently doing.

I would gladly spend more of my Wyoming welfare money for more opportunity.
 
Hmmm...Just had an idea.

Maybe Mountain Pursuit could challenge the NR wilderness law. Myself and most other residents think it's a stupid law, so you NR would have our resident support..except for the outfitters, of course.

Then who would you NR throw your support behind? WYOGA would no longer have as much NR support. Resident hunters might even come to the rallying call!! Repealing the wilderness law would give NR a bunch more opportunity, right?? It would be very interesting to see how that would play out..

It's a tradeoff-If 90/10 does eventually get passed, repealing the wilderness law would at least be something you guys(NR) could maybe hang your hats on. Of course, that would mean you'd have to contact members of our legislature rather than whine on an online forum. The way it stands now, our legislators seem to favor NR hunters over resident hunters anyway, as evidenced by how the latest bill got shot down in committee.

If you think WYOGA doesn't have a knife at the ready( for your back), see what happens if the NR wilderness law gets challenged...
 
Saying it's mine I'm entitled sounds like someone who voted for the orange loser. if you want to be technical the tribes should get 90% , residents 8% and nonresidents 2% .

Living off these animals for thousands of years prior to your arrival should count more than a u haul truck rental and an address change don't you think ?

Nah, that's different .
Just another gov handout to a lifetime member of the greatest welfare group.
 
I like the wilderness law. As a resident it’s a great perk. Just like 90/10 get back to me when you lobby for alaska to let me hunt all it’s species without a guide. Pretty sure the dakotas have some hunts closed to non residents.
 
I can totally understand residents wanting a 90/10, especially on sheep, moose, goat, and bison. I hear you and understand, but....

Wyoming residents really have it pretty dang good. Probably the best in the lower 48. No point system and are able to apply for the best tags in the state with pretty dang good odds. If they don't draw they are able to buy OTC general deer and elk tags every year. They can hunt the best deer unit in the state OTC archery and rifle seasons every year that is limited quota for non residents. There are non residents stacked up like cord wood to hunt unit 7 elk, and a resident has a 25% or better chance of drawing it every year.

Idaho is the only other place that is as generous to residents with the options of LE and OTC options, but they sell OTC with caps to non residents. Not limited quota like WY.

Would any of you residents be willing to give up unlimited OTC general tags for a 90/10 split on everything else?

Rob Shaul is tough for me to get behind though. Being mad and starting this crusade based on the fact he ran into several groups of non residents who were hunting on a limited quota tag for non residents that is taking 8 or 9 poi's to draw in an area where he can buy the general tag and hunt every year, plus the wilderness area with no diy non residents... Pretty silly reason to get bent out of shape.
 
I can totally understand residents wanting a 90/10, especially on sheep, moose, goat, and bison. I hear you and understand, but....

Wyoming residents really have it pretty dang good. Probably the best in the lower 48. No point system and are able to apply for the best tags in the state with pretty dang good odds. If they don't draw they are able to buy OTC general deer and elk tags every year. They can hunt the best deer unit in the state OTC archery and rifle seasons every year that is limited quota for non residents. There are non residents stacked up like cord wood to hunt unit 7 elk, and a resident has a 25% or better chance of drawing it every year.

Idaho is the only other place that is as generous to residents with the options of LE and OTC options, but they sell OTC with caps to non residents. Not limited quota like WY.

Would any of you residents be willing to give up unlimited OTC general tags for a 90/10 split on everything else?

Rob Shaul is tough for me to get behind though. Being mad and starting this crusade based on the fact he ran into several groups of non residents who were hunting on a limited quota tag for non residents that is taking 8 or 9 poi's to draw in an area where he can buy the general tag and hunt every year, plus the wilderness area with no diy non residents... Pretty silly reason to get bent out of shape.
I'm not sure why NR think R need to give something up to get 90/10 split. It is mind blowing to think some NR actually believe this. Nothing worse than NR trying to dictate what we need here in Wyoming. If half of you spent as much time and energy trying to make changes in your in own state, as you do pissing and moaning about Wyoming you might actually get something done. I mean we all know you hypocrites are pushing for more NR tags in your own state, right?? It's pretty simple really, if you don't like what Wyoming is doing go elsewhere.

For the record, I think the wilderness law is BS. You can thank WYOGA for that. Im sure if you send old SY a few emails he will be more than happy to help you out. I mean after all he's here to help you NR.
 
I'm not sure why NR think R need to give something up to get 90/10 split. It is mind blowing to think some NR actually believe this. Nothing worse than NR trying to dictate what we need here in Wyoming. If half of you spent as much time and energy trying to make changes in your in own state, as you do pissing and moaning about Wyoming you might actually get something done. I mean we all know you hypocrites are pushing for more NR tags in your own state, right?? It's pretty simple really, if you don't like what Wyoming is doing go elsewhere.

For the record, I think the wilderness law is BS. You can thank WYOGA for that. Im sure if you send old SY a few emails he will be more than happy to help you out. I mean after all he's here to help you NR.
Agree 100%
 
I'm not sure why NR think R need to give something up to get 90/10 split. It is mind blowing to think some NR actually believe this. Nothing worse than NR trying to dictate what we need here in Wyoming. If half of you spent as much time and energy trying to make changes in your in own state, as you do pissing and moaning about Wyoming you might actually get something done. I mean we all know you hypocrites are pushing for more NR tags in your own state, right?? It's pretty simple really, if you don't like what Wyoming is doing go elsewhere.

For the record, I think the wilderness law is BS. You can thank WYOGA for that. Im sure if you send old SY a few emails he will be more than happy to help you out. I mean after all he's here to help you NR.
Easy there cowboy... I never said anything about needing to give anything up and pretty sure I said I understand the want for 90/10. I was just asking if anybody would support an idea like that, never said they need to. What you would call a hypothetical question.

I have emailed SY about it being a good idea for them to help get rid of the wilderness law in order to keep nonresidents on their side. Told him it was very self serving of WYOGA to ask for non resident help in killing these proposals but keeping us locked out of hunting wilderness. Also mentioned how it would open up the opportunity for his outfitters of his organization to do drop camp hunts that are so popular in other states. Only got back a generic email from an assistant. No surprise.

My state gives unlimited OTC deer tags to non residents and even lets you kill multiple deer on the price of one tag. You can also buy an elk tag or and archery only antelope tag OTC with written landowner permission. Tons of opportunity for NR to get tags, but you are going to need private land access most of the time. Not much public in these parts of the world and what is available is insanely crowded during the rifle seasons.
 
Easy there cowboy... I never said anything about needing to give anything up and pretty sure I said I understand the want for 90/10. I was just asking if anybody would support an idea like that, never said they need to. What you would call a hypothetical question.
Actually you did say that.
 
Is there a class somewhere that I can take on having one hand out while saying mine mine mine? I'm going to need it if I am going to fit in with the Wyo residents it looks like :)
 
Yes that was a question. Please show me where I said they needed to give up tags or should?
Good grief okie. You’re the one that brought it up. You said it in your question.

We’re at rock bottom if an okie is commenting on 90/10.
 
As a resident i was fine with the 80/20 . I wasn't fine with the wilderness law. But last few years the comments i have read on here i have changed my mind 360. I support the 90/10 for sheep, moose, mnt.goat and bison.

I dont support how other states do their system but I shut up and move along or i just play the game.


As a resident i dont get sqaut for tags. Its 100 percent my fault to. I apply for tags that have super low odds
 
Yes, it’s called the WYOGA. They even have all the NR brainwashed into thinking they will protect and defend the NR interests.

Many NR don't trust WYOGA or trust your organization. I actually trust organizations such as Mountain Pursuit less than I trust WYOGA. Organizations that claim to be for hunters but are against coyote hunters, bear baiting, trapping and/or hound hunting cause even more long term damage to hunters than a group like PETA.

Just so others can see, below are a list of 5 points directly from Mountain Pursuit website that I disagree with. There are many other things I disagree with Mountain Pursuit about. highfastllyer is arguably a wolf in sheeps clothing. Before you support his origination 307 hunters you should do some research yourself.

1. A "Predator Hunting License" should be required for resident and nonresident sport coyote hunters. Requirements for general big game hunting such as required hunter's safety courses and conservation stamp purchases should also be required for coyote hunting.

2. Electronic calls should not be allowed.

3. A maximum firearm shot distance of 400 yards should be set and enforced. This shot distance restriction works to keep the Fair Chase balance between hunter and prey.

4. A daily bag limit of 5 coyotes should be set and enforced.

5. Coyote hunting contests should be banned.


As far as 90/10 split, I think that is up to the residents of Wyoming to decide and I do think a 90/10 split is reasonable for any state. I still have a right to post an opinion about the 90/10 split on an open internet forum. I would ask residents to think independently and question who is friend or your enemy. A nonresident hunters such as myself is a much better friend to almost all resident hunters than an organization like Mountain Pursuit.
 
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Many NR don't trust WYOGA or trust your organization. I actually trust organizations such as Mountain Pursuit less than I trust WYOGA. Organizations that claim to be for hunters but are against coyote hunters, bear baiting, trapping and/or hound hunting cause even more long term damage to hunters than a group like PETA.

Just so others can see, below are a list of 5 points directly from Mountain Pursuit website that I disagree with. There are many other things I disagree with Mountain Pursuit about. highfastllyer is arguably a wolf in sheeps clothing. Before you support his origination 307 hunters you should do some research yourself.

1. A "Predator Hunting License" should be required for resident and nonresident sport coyote hunters. Requirements for general big game hunting such as required hunter's safety courses and conservation stamp purchases should also be required for coyote hunting.

2. Electronic calls should not be allowed.

3. A maximum firearm shot distance of 400 yards should be set and enforced. This shot distance restriction works to keep the Fair Chase balance between hunter and prey.

4. A daily bag limit of 5 coyotes should be set and enforced.

5. Coyote hunting contests should be banned.


As far as 90/10 split, I think that is up to the residents of Wyoming to decide and I do think a 90/10 split is reasonable for any state. I still have a right to post an opinion about the 90/10 split on an open internet forum. I would ask residents to think independently and question who is friend or your enemy. A nonresident hunters such as myself is a much better friend to almost all resident hunters than an organization like Mountain Pursuit.
Interesting. I would be for a coyote hunting license. It would be interesting to see how many are partaking in shooting coyotes.
 
Interesting. I would be for a coyote hunting license. It would be interesting to see how many are partaking in shooting coyotes.

About the only people killing coyotes in Wyoming that don't purchase a hunting license for anything else are Ranchers. You should really look at the Mountain Pursuit website to see what they are really about.


Then ask yourself who is a better friend to most resident hunters. A nonresident like me who isn't strongly opposed to a 90/10 split but has some concerns about it or an organization like 307hunters or mountain pursuit?

The people behind mountain pursuit obviously know very little about coyote calling based on some of their ideas such as

"Coyote hunting weapons should be limited to firearms with caliber of .22 or greater"

Many serious coyote hunters use 204 ruger and it is without a doubt a very effective coyote cartridge.

Do we really need a daily bag limit of 5 coyotes per day? Is there really a concern that too many coyotes are getting killed by coyote callers in Wyoming?

Just look at their website to see what you are dealing with.
 
About the only people killing coyotes in Wyoming that don't purchase a hunting license for anything else are Ranchers. You should really look at the Mountain Pursuit website to see what they are really about.


Then ask yourself who is a better friend to most resident hunters. A nonresident like me who isn't strongly opposed to a 90/10 split but has some concerns about it or an organization like 307hunters or mountain pursuit?

The people behind mountain pursuit obviously know very little about coyote calling based on some of their ideas such as

"Coyote hunting weapons should be limited to firearms with caliber of .22 or greater"

Many serious coyote hunters use 204 ruger and it is without a doubt a very effective coyote cartridge.

Do we really need a daily bag limit of 5 coyotes per day? Is there really a concern that too many coyotes are getting killed by coyote callers in Wyoming?

Just look at their website to see what you are dealing with.
Can you say "Red Herring"?

Who cares what Mountain Pursuits thinks about predator hunting. Wyoming resident hunters are who will have the final say, and are having it!
 
Can you say "Red Herring"?

Who cares what Mountain Pursuits thinks about predator hunting. Wyoming resident hunters are who will have the final say, and are having it!

I agree, Wyoming residents should have the final say on 90/10 or whatever is decided. Nonresidents like me can have an opinion on an open internet forum. Telling us that we can't post an opinion here is ridiculous. Just remember that just because I'm a nonresident that I'm not your enemy. I'm just competition for tags that Wyoming residents should be given a preference on. Just remember we are all nonresidents somewhere and completely screwing nonresident hunters out tags in Wyoming may not really be in the best interest of Wyoming residents.

I care about what Mountain Pursuit thinks about Coyote hunting. You should look at their agenda on other items. Some of their agenda such as ATVs I agree with and other items I disagree with. Just like Biden, there are some things that he does that I agree with and others I'm strongly opposed.
 
I agree, Wyoming residents should have the final say on 90/10 or whatever is decided. Nonresidents like me can have an opinion on an open internet forum. Telling us that we can't post an opinion here is ridiculous. Just remember that just because I'm a nonresident that I'm not your enemy. I'm just competition for tags that Wyoming residents should be given a preference on. Just remember we are all nonresidents somewhere and completely screwing nonresident hunters out tags in Wyoming may not really be in the best interest of Wyoming residents.

I care about what Mountain Pursuit thinks about Coyote hunting. You should look at their agenda on other items. Some of their agenda such as ATVs I agree with and other items I disagree with. Just like Biden, there are some things that he does that I agree with and others I'm strongly opposed.
Welcome to the world of being a group of exactly one person.

If anyone is looking for a reason to NOT support a group, they'll find it. Whether that's the RMEF, MDF, MFF, DU, PF, BHA whatever.

They all do things that I don't agree with from time to time. They all also do a lot of good things.

You will not find a group, unless you're the only member, that does 100% what you want them to....fact.
 
Welcome to the world of being a group of exactly one person.

If anyone is looking for a reason to NOT support a group, they'll find it. Whether that's the RMEF, MDF, MFF, DU, PF, BHA whatever.

They all do things that I don't agree with from time to time. They all also do a lot of good things.

You will not find a group, unless you're the only member, that does 100% what you want them to....fact.

That is true, I'm not going to find a group I agree with 100% of the time. I will still vote for politicians that I don't agree 100% but certain issues will be a deal breaker for me.

For me, their stance on coyote hunting and other issues are deal breakers. If 307hunters wasn't associated with mountain pursuit, I wouldn't have much of an issue with a group lobbying for Wyoming preference of 90/10 split.

I even agree with some of the stuff PETA does but you won't ever see me giving them a dime. If you want to support 307hunters, that is up to you.
 
About the only people killing coyotes in Wyoming that don't purchase a hunting license for anything else are Ranchers. You should really look at the Mountain Pursuit website to see what they are really about.


Then ask yourself who is a better friend to most resident hunters. A nonresident like me who isn't strongly opposed to a 90/10 split but has some concerns about it or an organization like 307hunters or mountain pursuit?

The people behind mountain pursuit obviously know very little about coyote calling based on some of their ideas such as

"Coyote hunting weapons should be limited to firearms with caliber of .22 or greater"

Many serious coyote hunters use 204 ruger and it is without a doubt a very effective coyote cartridge.

Do we really need a daily bag limit of 5 coyotes per day? Is there really a concern that too many coyotes are getting killed by coyote callers in Wyoming?

Just look at their website to see what you are dealing with.
Mountain Pursuit promotes the following:

  • Fair Chase and Ethical Hunting
  • Subsistence hunting - take no more than you need
  • Priority hunting tag allocation for the western state residents of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico
  • Conservation and the protection/promotion of healthy wildlife populations
  • Conservation and protection of our wildlands and wild places
  • Protecting the hunt for future generations
Coyote carcass splattering by hunting contests and running them over by snowmobile do more HARM and long term damage to legitimate, moral and ethical hunters than almost any form of hunting. It’s long past time to rein in these contests which have done such harm and long term damage we will probably never recover as ethical sportspersons.

The technology growth and exponential increase on 1000+ yard shooting systems are making it unethical and unsportsmanlike for any animal to defend itself or survive. Animals can’t hear a 1000+ yards away and the amount of wounded game by many of these ridge busters who take those long shots is staggering. The downward spiral in mule deer numbers just won’t allow for such extreme killing machines. Mountain pursuit is just trying to clean up the ugly and unethical side of continual modern day technology increases in hunting. You will never find a group which totally represents your way of personal thinking but one issue which is uniting us as hunters are the unfair allocation of giving away 25% of many premium tags to NR while their state only allows 10% or even less in many cases of premium hunting tags. It’s time for Wyoming residents to Circle the Wagons and get what is on par with surrounding states ie 90/10 plan for game license allocation.
 
Coyote carcass splattering by hunting contests and running them over by snowmobile do more HARM and long term damage to legitimate, moral and ethical hunters than almost any form of hunting. It’s long past time to rein in these contests which have done such harm and long term damage we will probably never recover as ethical sportspersons.

With the exception of me occasionally killing more than 5 coyotes a day, you would probably be completely ok with the way I hunt coyotes. Just because I don't participate in contests, have a 204 ruger, shoot at coyotes beyond 200 yards on a regular basis doesn't mean that I think others shouldn't be allowed to.

Two questions for you on coyotes.

1# Why should a 204 ruger not be allowed for coyotes?

2# Do you really believe e-callers make calling coyotes too easy?

I'm guessing you don't have much experience calling coyotes and you want to put restrictions on something you don't fully understand.
 
With the exception of me occasionally killing more than 5 coyotes a day, you would probably be completely ok with the way I hunt coyotes. Just because I don't participate in contests, have a 204 ruger, shoot at coyotes beyond 200 yards on a regular basis doesn't mean that I think others shouldn't be allowed to.

Two questions for you on coyotes.

1# Why should a 204 ruger not be allowed for coyotes?

2# Do you really believe e-callers make calling coyotes too easy?

I'm guessing you don't have much experience calling coyotes and you want to put restrictions on something you don't fully understand.
I personally am ok with either option and likely most 307 Hunter members feel the same way. Running coyotes over with snowmobiles and posting 20 dead coyote carcasses all over social media not so much. You’ll never agree fully with any hunting group but any group which sponsors equitable and fair hunting license allocation and moral and responsible predator taking then we share common ground. Wyoming residents are Circling the Wagons on this one and the next vote will NOT be 4-1 killed in committee or we will elect politicians who answer to the electorate. What we seek is merely what almost every other Western state now offers. Wyoming residents have been far far too generous and it’s time to change that inequity.
 
Why stop at 90/10? How about 100/0? After all, no promises were made to the NR with regards to points, and the animals belong to the Residents, as earlier posters have stated. As for the NR's, they can just hunt their own state, right?
 
Why stop at 90/10? How about 100/0? After all, no promises were made to the NR with regards to points, and the animals belong to the Residents, as earlier posters have stated. As for the NR's, they can just hunt their own state, right?
In Wyoming we are the “Equality” state after all. We just are a little behind the times on this one as most surrounding states offer a 90/10, Wyoming has been Far far too Generous giving away 25% of its premium tags. It’s just time to get ourselves on par and Equitable to what we are currently afforded.
 
Why stop at 90/10? How about 100/0? After all, no promises were made to the NR with regards to points, and the animals belong to the Residents, as earlier posters have stated. As for the NR's, they can just hunt their own state, right?
Wrong! No one here is trying to push NR hunters out of Wyoming. NR should be able to enjoy what Wyoming has to offer, to include all wilderness areas. In case you haven't been paying attention the push is 90/10 split, which is on par with other western states. Keep up man...
 
Wrong! No one here is trying to push NR hunters out of Wyoming. NR should be able to enjoy what Wyoming has to offer, to include all wilderness areas. In case you haven't been paying attention the push is 90/10 split, which is on par with other western states. Keep up man...
I have been paying attention. I have seen no science behind the push for an exact 10% number for NR. Just because other state have pegged that number as acceptable, doesn't mean it is right for Wyoming. Wyoming's economy and animal resource are not the same as other states, so it seems they should not follow other states' lead. If they do, perhaps they should require all hats worn hunting in the field be flat-brimmed :).
 
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Is Wyoming mandated by law to provide hunting opportunities for non-residents? If not, and this is really about opportunity for Residents, why not go the 100/ 0 route? Just raise the cost of a tag $6 instead of $3 and the financial issue is solved.
 
I personally am ok with either option and likely most 307 Hunter members feel the same way. Running coyotes over with snowmobiles and posting 20 dead coyote carcasses all over social media not so much. You’ll never agree fully with any hunting group but any group which sponsors equitable and fair hunting license allocation and moral and responsible predator taking then we share common ground. Wyoming residents are Circling the Wagons on this one and the next vote will NOT be 4-1 killed in committee or we will elect politicians who answer to the electorate. What we seek is merely what almost every other Western state now offers. Wyoming residents have been far far too generous and it’s time to change that inequity.
That is good that you don't agree with some of their opinions. Groups that target coyote contests or trappers or other "low hanging fruit" will get no support from me. Even though I've never participated in a coyote contest or trapped, I'll stand behind those guys. I also don't have a problem with people running down coyotes on snowmachines. The 5 coyote daily limit is also ridiculous to even suggest.

If coyote populations were in jeopardy, I would be the first to ask for their protection but that will never happen. Humans have tried to exterminate coyotes from western states for over 150 years and we have completely failed. Coyotes have even spread during this extermination effort. If two things survive a nuclear war, it will be coyotes and cockroaches. It is well proven that they don't need any special protection to thrive.

Shooting a coyote I called in with a hand call to 100 yards with my 22-250 would be considered unsporting to people that don't know how difficult coyotes are to kill. I have more respect for a coyotes ability to survive than any animal I've hunted. A smart old coyote is more difficult to kill than any wise old muley buck.
 
Is Wyoming mandated by law to provide hunting opportunities for non-residents? If not, and this is really about opportunity for Residents, why not go the 100/ 0 route? Just raise the cost of a tag $6 instead of $3 and the financial issue is solved.
The legislature mandates how many elk licenses by law we must provide to NR. The remaining licenses are by the Wildlife Commission process. If you want 100% of all Licenses to go to residents in your state go ahead and try to enact such crazy and selfish policies. Keep your Crazy ideas and opinions out of Wyoming. In Wyoming we are merely asking for what most surrounding Western states offer and trying to be on par ie 90/10. We in Wyoming fully welcome and want NR to come hunt in our state and fully recognise their contribution to our economy and wildlife management. We just want an equitable distribution of the premium tags hence a 90/10 allocation strategy. When it comes to less premium licenses like Antelope and cow elk we want and need NR to come to Wyoming and help harvest our abundance and Welcome NR hunters. A 90/10 won’t limit NR hunting license numbers it will only affect the premium tags.
 
2 of the 4 surrounding states to Wyo offer way more big game tags than Wyo! Colo to the south offers 20 to 35% of the limited deer, elk, and antelope tags to nonres. Colo also offers unlimited elk tags to nonres. Nebraska to the east offers nearly unlimited deer tags to nonres.
 
The legislature mandates how many elk licenses by law we must provide to NR. The remaining licenses are by the Wildlife Commission process. If you want 100% of all Licenses to go to residents in your state go ahead and try to enact such crazy and selfish policies. Keep your Crazy ideas and opinions out of Wyoming. In Wyoming we are merely asking for what most surrounding Western states offer and trying to be on par ie 90/10. We in Wyoming fully welcome and want NR to come hunt in our state and fully recognize their contribution to our economy and wildlife management. We just want an equitable distribution of the premium tags hence a 90/10 allocation strategy. When it comes to less premium licenses like Antelope and cow elk we want and need NR to come to Wyoming and help harvest our abundance and Welcome NR hunters. A 90/10 won’t limit NR hunting license numbers it will only affect the premium tags.
"Crazy and Selfish"? You make my point for me. What one person deems acceptable others may not. If you want Wyoming to align with the other western states, why not imitate the game management practices of Utah and Idaho? I bet you wouldn't be as excited to follow their model in that regard.

And the thought that the same amount of licenses would be sold is a fallacy. Substitute my max points elk hunt for a cow tag? Let me put it this way, if I went to the Chevy dealership, and they told me they didn't have a Corvette to sell me because they kept 90% for GM employees, you can be damn sure I would not buy a Chevy Spark. I would go to Dodge and buy a Hellcat. If Dodge said the same thing, I am still not driving a Spark.

Sorry this is such and emotional issue for you, but if Wyoming wants NR money, just be aware that NR's may look at the value proposition that is in front of them, and decide it is not worth it.
 
2 of the 4 surrounding states to Wyo offer way more big game tags than Wyo! Colo to the south offers 20 to 35% of the limited deer, elk, and antelope tags to nonres. Colo also offers unlimited elk tags to nonres. Nebraska to the east offers nearly unlimited deer tags to nonres.
Haha Nebraska...

How many sheep, Mountain Goat and moose tags does Colorado give to NR.
 
The legislature mandates how many elk licenses by law we must provide to NR. The remaining licenses are by the Wildlife Commission process.
Yeah, you got this backwards. The 7250 NR elk tags are mandated in regulation, not statute. Most of the rest of big game allocations are in statute.
And it's called the Game & Fish Commission.
 
"Crazy and Selfish"? You make my point for me. What one person deems acceptable others may not. If you want Wyoming to align with the other western states, why not imitate the game management practices of Utah and Idaho? I bet you wouldn't be as excited to follow their model in that regard.

And the thought that the same amount of licenses would be sold is a fallacy. Substitute my max points elk hunt for a cow tag? Let me put it this way, if I went to the Chevy dealership, and they told me they didn't have a Corvette to sell me because they kept 90% for GM employees, you can be damn sure I would not buy a Chevy Spark. I would go to Dodge and buy a Hellcat. If Dodge said the same thing, I am still not driving a Spark.

Sorry this is such and emotional issue for you, but if Wyoming wants NR money, just be aware that NR's may look at the value proposition that is in front of them, and decide it is not worth it.
Yet you call for everyone who could at least buy the Chevy Spark to not even be able to do that. Yeah I call that Crazy and Selfish. Your analogy is as bad as your crazy ideas. I’m glad they gain ZERO SUPPORT in Wyoming. Keep your crazy ideas out of Wyoming as we would Never condone such crazy actions.
 
"Crazy and Selfish"? You make my point for me. What one person deems acceptable others may not. If you want Wyoming to align with the other western states, why not imitate the game management practices of Utah and Idaho? I bet you wouldn't be as excited to follow their model in that regard.

And the thought that the same amount of licenses would be sold is a fallacy. Substitute my max points elk hunt for a cow tag? Let me put it this way, if I went to the Chevy dealership, and they told me they didn't have a Corvette to sell me because they kept 90% for GM employees, you can be damn sure I would not buy a Chevy Spark. I would go to Dodge and buy a Hellcat. If Dodge said the same thing, I am still not driving a Spark.

Sorry this is such and emotional issue for you, but if Wyoming wants NR money, just be aware that NR's may look at the value proposition that is in front of them, and decide it is not worth it.
Nobody is asking you to substitute your points for a cow tag. You'll still have access to 10% of the LQ elk tags, it may take longer to draw, but too bad.

Also, it was your choice to sit on max points...you could have had a tag by now. There's also plenty of general tags available that have good elk hunting, that you probably could have hunted 7-8-12 times by now. It was your choice to acquire points instead of hunting elk in Wyoming.

You've had opportunity after opportunity to "purchase the corvette" and instead have CHOSEN a 3 wheeled skateboard...

Live with it.
 
Nobody is asking you to substitute your points for a cow tag. You'll still have access to 10% of the LQ elk tags, it may take longer to draw, but too bad.

Also, it was your choice to sit on max points...you could have had a tag by now. There's also plenty of general tags available that have good elk hunting, that you probably could have hunted 7-8-12 times by now. It was your choice to acquire points instead of hunting elk in Wyoming.

You've had opportunity after opportunity to "purchase the corvette" and instead have CHOSEN a 3 wheeled skateboard...

Live with it.
Live with it? I wasn't aware the decision had been made to go to 90/10 already.

As for sitting on points and not hunting, I hunt every year. Don't try and shame me because, just like you, I want a quality hunt. The thing that is most off-putting to your NR hunting brothers is that you act like 10% is so generous (they are YOUR animals, after all), that it should be accepted and supported without question, data, or facts just because you are passionate about the issue.
 
Live with it? I wasn't aware the decision had been made to go to 90/10 already.

As for sitting on points and not hunting, I hunt every year. Don't try and shame me because, just like you, I want a quality hunt. The thing that is most off-putting to your NR hunting brothers is that you act like 10% is so generous (they are YOUR animals, after all), that it should be accepted and supported without question, data, or facts just because you are passionate about the issue.
I wouldn't be dragging my feet burning my points if I were a NR WY hunter....

Also, you do hunt every year, I do as well. But, what I'm not expecting as a NR in 49 other states is to have any kind of priority shown to me over the Residents of those other 49 states. Before a single Resident is sitting on the side-lines, 100% of the NR's should be.

That's where we differ, you're wanting R's to sacrifice their opportunity for you, so you can have the LUXURY of hunting as a NR. I don't view NR hunting as a god-given right, its a generous offer afforded me by the States that even allow me to hunt as a NR there. I realize full well they don't have to allow me a single opportunity, and if they cut tags 100% to NR's so their residents can hunt more...good for them. If they want to reduce my NR opportunities, fine by me, their state, their decision, their wildlife. If they want to increase opportunity, great...but its their choice to make.

Yes, I think 10% of our States resources is really generous. For species that most residents will never draw, like moose, sheep, goat, and bison, the allocation should be 0% to NR's...just like North Dakota does with their moose permits, 100% to R's.
 
Mountain Pursuit promotes the following:

  • Fair Chase and Ethical Hunting
  • Subsistence hunting - take no more than you need
  • Priority hunting tag allocation for the western state residents of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico
  • Conservation and the protection/promotion of healthy wildlife populations
  • Conservation and protection of our wildlands and wild places
  • Protecting the hunt for future generations
Coyote carcass splattering by hunting contests and running them over by snowmobile do more HARM and long term damage to legitimate, moral and ethical hunters than almost any form of hunting. It’s long past time to rein in these contests which have done such harm and long term damage we will probably never recover as ethical sportspersons.

The technology growth and exponential increase on 1000+ yard shooting systems are making it unethical and unsportsmanlike for any animal to defend itself or survive. Animals can’t hear a 1000+ yards away and the amount of wounded game by many of these ridge busters who take those long shots is staggering. The downward spiral in mule deer numbers just won’t allow for such extreme killing machines. Mountain pursuit is just trying to clean up the ugly and unethical side of continual modern day technology increases in hunting. You will never find a group which totally represents your way of personal thinking but one issue which is uniting us as hunters are the unfair allocation of giving away 25% of many premium tags to NR while their state only allows 10% or even less in many cases of premium hunting tags. It’s time for Wyoming residents to Circle the Wagons and get what is on par with surrounding states ie 90/10 plan for game license allocation.
What is Mountain pursuit doing about long range shooting classes by Wy outfitters???
 
I wouldn't be dragging my feet burning my points if I were a NR WY hunter....

Also, you do hunt every year, I do as well. But, what I'm not expecting as a NR in 49 other states is to have any kind of priority shown to me over the Residents of those other 49 states. Before a single Resident is sitting on the side-lines, 100% of the NR's should be.

That's where we differ, you're wanting R's to sacrifice their opportunity for you, so you can have the LUXURY of hunting as a NR. I don't view NR hunting as a god-given right, its a generous offer afforded me by the States that even allow me to hunt as a NR there. I realize full well they don't have to allow me a single opportunity, and if they cut tags 100% to NR's so their residents can hunt more...good for them. If they want to reduce my NR opportunities, fine by me, their state, their decision, their wildlife. If they want to increase opportunity, great...but its their choice to make.

Yes, I think 10% of our States resources is really generous. For species that most residents will never draw, like moose, sheep, goat, and bison, the allocation should be 0% to NR's...just like North Dakota does with their moose permits, 100% to R's.
We respectfully disagree, which I am 100% fine with. I am pretty sure the NR opportunity will never go away completely, the $ is too tempting, and the ancillary businesses will fight it to the extent they need or want NR $. Everything finds its balance.

More concerning to me is the long-range shooting issue, mentioned in post 186 above. Others may disagree, but I believe it is a major problem facing most western (open country) states that is hurting R's and NR's alike. I may get flamed for this, but it is how I feel. Not that my feelings should matter lol.
 
I'm sure they would be glad to tell you.
Mountain Pursuit supports:

  • Limiting all archery hunting shots to 50 yards or less. More HERE.
  • Limited all black powder hunting shots to 100 yards or less.
  • Limiting all rifle/firearm hunting shots to 400 yards or less. More HERE.
  • Hunting-related penalties for ORV road and trail violations during hunting season. More HERE.
  • Ethical standards for coyote hunting. More HERE.
  • Prohibiting Trail Cameras for the taking or aiding in the taking of game. More HERE.
 
What is Mountain pursuit doing about long range shooting classes by Wy outfitters???
Last I checked it’s not Illegal to shoot a gun in the USA or take a class. You may not agree with everything Mt. Pursuit sponsors but regarding the 90/10 it is an issue affecting all Wyoming resident hunters losing tremendous premium tags to NR after having been far far too generous for over a half century. We are now circling the wagons and merely asking to be on par for what almost every other Western state offers.
 
We respectfully disagree, which I am 100% fine with. I am pretty sure the NR opportunity will never go away completely, the $ is too tempting, and the ancillary businesses will fight it to the extent they need or want NR $. Everything finds its balance.

More concerning to me is the long-range shooting issue, mentioned in post 186 above. Others may disagree, but I believe it is a major problem facing most western (open country) states that is hurting R's and NR's alike. I may get flamed for this, but it is how I feel. Not that my feelings should matter lol.
Nobody is asking you or anyone else to stop hunting in Wyoming as a NR. We fully understand how important the NR hunters are helping our economy and wildlife management. The big difference is we are just asking for 90% of the premium tags offered to be awarded to R hunters as almost every other Western state is now offering a 90/10 type license allocation. There will still be the same number of leftover and large offering of Antelope and Cow elk tags along with the 7250 Commission mandated elk licenses and the regional quota offered to NR. Many of those Regional quota licenses offer some of the best elk and deer hunting available in the West, especially in the Wilderness areas. Regarding long range shooting if you are against long range ridge busting and unnecessarily wounded game at extreme long ranges then you should support Mt. Pursuit in their endeavours to get it stopped.
 
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Nobody is asking you or anyone else to stop hunting in Wyoming as a NR. We fully understand how important the NR hunters are helping our economy and wildlife management. The big difference is we are just asking for 90% of the premium tags offered to be awarded to R hunters as almost every other Western state is now offering a 90/10 type license allocation. There will still be the same number of leftover and large offering of Antelope and Cow elk tags along with the 7250 Commission mandated elk licenses and the regional quota offered to NR. Many of those Regional quota licenses offer some of the best elk and deer hunting available in the West, especially in the Wilderness areas. Regarding long range shooting if you are against long range ridge busting and unnecessarily wounded game at extreme long ranges then you should support Mt. Pursuit in their endeavours to get it stopped.
What is to prevent the shortening or altering of dates of General/ Regional licenses and expanding the number or types of "premium" tags that would be subject to 90/10? That seems like the type of thing that could be sprung on the NR's in year 2 onward once 90/10 was adopted. This is government, after all...
 
What is to prevent the shortening or altering of dates of General/ Regional licenses and expanding the number or types of "premium" tags that would be subject to 90/10? That seems like the type of thing that could be sprung on the NR's in year 2 onward once 90/10 was adopted. This is government, after all...
That happens already. You must not understand how wildlife management and professional game biology functions? Every year tag numbers go up and down as the herd numbers fluctuate. Do you even follow and read the regional biologist completion reports?
 
I understand full well how they function, and I am beginning to understand you, highfastflyer. Someone asks an honest question, and you pile on with insults in your incredibly pius and annoying manner. I get it, 90/10 is the hill you want to die on. I cant be bothered to explain issues that involve any nuance to you since you can't seem to understand someone may hold an opinion other than your own.

Let's ignore each other from here on out. I look forward to your snarky retort, but I will keep my reply to myself.
 
I understand full well how they function, and I am beginning to understand you, highfastflyer. Someone asks an honest question, and you pile on with insults in your incredibly pius and annoying manner. I get it, 90/10 is the hill you want to die on. I cant be bothered to explain issues that involve any nuance to you since you can't seem to understand someone may hold an opinion other than your own.

Let's ignore each other from here on out. I look forward to your snarky retort, but I will keep my reply to myself.
Obviously you DON’T UNDERSTAND how almost every Western state now offers a 90/10 allocation of licenses. We only seek what every other state that surrounds us now offers to us as Wyoming residents when we apply for NR tags. In your case I can see you just can’t grasp what fairness and equity ( equal treatment) really mean. I get it your selfish and want to import your Crazy ideas to Wyoming. We don’t want nor need them. It is guys like you we as Wyoming residents will CELEBRATE when we can convince our politicians to pass a 90/10 scheme. Until then enjoy what you have and your selfish ideas until it’s gone.
 
The legislature mandates how many elk licenses by law we must provide to NR. The remaining licenses are by the Wildlife Commission process. If you want 100% of all Licenses to go to residents in your state go ahead and try to enact such crazy and selfish policies. Keep your Crazy ideas and opinions out of Wyoming. In Wyoming we are merely asking for what most surrounding Western states offer and trying to be on par ie 90/10. We in Wyoming fully welcome and want NR to come hunt in our state and fully recognise their contribution to our economy and wildlife management. We just want an equitable distribution of the premium tags hence a 90/10 allocation strategy. When it comes to less premium licenses like Antelope and cow elk we want and need NR to come to Wyoming and help harvest our abundance and Welcome NR hunters. A 90/10 won’t limit NR hunting license numbers it will only affect the premium tags.

Lol. So what you're saying is we can't shoot your big bucks and bulls but it would be nice if us NR's would still come out, spend money, shoot prairie dogs and maybe a few cows and does :ROFLMAO:
I love your honesty.

And to be "on par" with surrounding states??? IMO Montana and Wyoming are about the only 2 normal states left and that's rapidly changing. I can't wrap my head around why you would want to assimilate to the likes of Colorado, Utah, New Mexico,etc. I mean they all have a little California in them......Hell freakin Kanye West has a ranch in Wyoming already :mad:
 
Lol. So what you're saying is we can't shoot your big bucks and bulls but it would be nice if us NR's would still come out, spend money, shoot prairie dogs and maybe a few cows and does :ROFLMAO:
I love your honesty.

And to be "on par" with surrounding states??? IMO Montana and Wyoming are about the only 2 normal states left and that's rapidly changing. I can't wrap my head around why you would want to assimilate to the likes of Colorado, Utah, New Mexico,etc. I mean they all have a little California in them......Hell freakin Kanye West has a ranch in Wyoming already :mad:
No, you can come hunt bucks and bulls also, but you will receive as a NR only 10% of the Limited quota licenses just as almost all surrounding states now offer. We will be fair and equitable as Wyoming residents also are treated when we apply for LQ tags in Western states. Of course you still will receive 7250 elk licenses and the regional quota in all General license areas which actually have some of the best bucks and bulls the West has to offer. We also encourage you to hunt antelope and cow elk while in Wyoming and yes please kill some prairie dogs also. After all, we are the Equality State.
 
No, you can come hunt bucks and bulls also, but you will receive as a NR only 10% of the Limited quota licenses just as almost all surrounding states now offer. We will be fair and equitable as Wyoming residents also are treated when we apply for LQ tags in Western states. Of course you still will receive 7250 elk licenses and the regional quota in all General license areas which actually have some of the best bucks and bulls the West has to offer. We also encourage you to hunt antelope and cow elk while in Wyoming and yes please kill some prairie dogs also. After all, we are the Equality State.

I was just pokin at your funny bone. I prefer to be able to hunt every year so the point chasing thing isn't really for me. My Dad and I have found even in general areas, if you can get away from people you will find the animals.
 
I was just pokin at your funny bone. I prefer to be able to hunt every year so the point chasing thing isn't really for me. My Dad and I have found even in general areas, if you can get away from people you will find the animals.
I agree 100% the points chasing is a bummer, I’m trying to get out ASAP, so hopefully the cooperate lol, thing I’ll adjust my strategy and enjoy whatever hunts I can without the point thing!! Good luck to everyone in this years draws!
 
I agree 100% the points chasing is a bummer, I’m trying to get out ASAP, so hopefully the cooperate lol, thing I’ll adjust my strategy and enjoy whatever hunts I can without the point thing!! Good luck to everyone in this years draws!

Exactly. To me it's about being able to hunt a place year after year or every other year. Find out what works and what doesn't. If we go home hungry then we should have put in a little more effort. No pisscutters in this group.
 

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Badger Creek Outfitters

Offering elk, deer and pronghorn hunts on several privately owned ranches.

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We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.


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