Wyoming SF45

BuzzH

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
6,080
This bill passed the Senate and is now making its way to the House side next week.

The bill asks for general funds to cover Game and Fish employee's health benefits and also the costs associated with grizzly bear management.

The legislature is all over the map on this one, but we (Wyoming Sportsmens Alliance) held a reception Monday in Cheyenne and got to talk to a lot of the Legislators about this important bill. We had pretty good support the bill, and answered a lot of concerns that the Legislators had.

http://www.ourpubliclands.org/wy-sp...overnor-wildlife-habitat-and-sportsmen-values

It would be great if we can contact the House side for support of this bill:

SF0045 can be viewed at:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2014/Introduced/SF0045.pdf

House TRWCR members include the following folks. You can email each of them by putting their first name, period, last [email protected] (e.g. [email protected]):
? Kathy Davison
? Dave Blevins
? John Freeman
? Gerald Gay
? Marti Halverson
? Lynn Hutchings
? Allen Jaggi
? Samuel Krone
? Garry Piiparinen
- See more at: http://www.ourpubliclands.org/wy-sp...tat-and-sportsmen-values#sthash.yuGy7wBy.dpuf
 
It's not all bad, look at how much more money game & fish will need. might make a 10% cut in NR tags not seem like such a great idea.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
I contacted the Reps and supported this bill. I can't believe this has been basically ignored on here.
 
If its not fighting over tags nobody cares...

Thank you for contacting the reps.

I will be in Cheyenne tomorrow to testify in Committee.
 
>If its not fighting over tags
>nobody cares...
>
>Thank you for contacting the reps.
>
>
>I will be in Cheyenne tomorrow
>to testify in Committee.


Now you don't really mean that Buzz. Some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-14 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]I attended the House committee hearing on this bill today. The room was packed with all but two people in support of the bill.

There was an amendment made by Rep. Halverson to remove the grizzly bear funding from the bill after a lot of great testimony by not only sportsmen, but also GF Director Talbott, and several members of the Legislature that are not on the TRW committee.

The vote on the amendment to remove grizzly bear funding was as follows:

In favor of amending were Rep. Jaggi, Gay, Halverson, Piiparinen, and Hutchings.

The vote on the bill after amendment would basically just cover the GF employee health benefits passed by a 8-1 vote with Rep. Gay being the lone vote against the bill.

In no shock, Bob Wharff with WYSFW, spoke out against the grizzly bear portion of the bill. The only other person to speak against it was someone from the "liberty group"...

This bill has a long, uphill battle but support is there.

I believe that Representatives Krone, Blevins, Davison, and Freeman deserve thanks for not voting to amend the bill. Representative Freeman gave some great testimony on the importance of hunting and what hunting means, and has meant, to his family. The WSA also gave great testimony as did many others.

Often times we only comment on what is NOT done, perhaps giving those that need a pat on the back a positive email would be a nice touch. We need to let our Representatives know when they've done a good job.

I'll also say that there could be at least one Representative that needs a swift kick in the arse...I'll let you decide who that may be.
 
BuzzH---Thanks for the update and taking time to attend that important hearing, as this effects us NRs as much or more as the residents of Wyoming with the way G&F is funded. It's no shock to hear your comments about the testimony Bob gave and these kinds of things need to be kept in the forefront so everyone can see the real agenda this guy and his SFW organization have. Thanks again bud!
 
>I'll also say that there could
>be at least one Representative
>that needs a swift kick
>in the arse...I'll let you
>decide who that may be.
>


Good job Buzz and the kick would be wasted effort!
 
Please excuse a dumb question but would it help if some NR's emailed them too?
Why wouldn't everyone want to see this passed? What's the angle for those opposed?
Zeke
 
>Please excuse a dumb question but
>would it help if some
>NR's emailed them too?
>Why wouldn't everyone want to see
>this passed? What's the angle
>for those opposed?
>Zeke


***I email a lot of the Legislators as a NR on these different issues affecting all of us that hunt in Wyoming. IMHO those opposed like Bob want to see the G&F go downhill so bad budget- wise for SFW to have a chance at getting power like they have in your state. I know we have agreed to disagree on SFW, but I think that's what a lot of us feel is happening from statements and efforts that Bob has made on this Forum and at Legislative meetings that some of guys have attended just like this one today.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-14 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]Buzzy, thank you. May I ask what Bob's (SFW) argument was/is? I know be won't come on here and explain. Thanks again, and I will write saying job well done.
 
Zeke,

I will do my best to answer your questions...if I dont, please demand that I clarify.

You asked if you should, as a NR, email these people. My response is not only yes, but absolutely yes. As a NR hunter of Wyoming, you fund a rather large portion of the GF budget. I think with that level of support, you are entitled to a voice. The TRW committee as well as most of the Legislature is well aware that NR hunters mean big money in both license sales and revenue to the State via hunter expenditures.

The second part, specifically:

Why wouldn't everyone want to see this passed? What's the angle for those opposed?

Thats a good question, but I can assure you that the hatred toward the GF has been a well orchestrated attack by one group, and one group only...WYSFW.

The goal of WYSFW is simple, defund the G&F, take over control of as much as possible, and place unrealistic demands on the GF.

The way he's attempted that is by influencing and brain washing a couple of the Representatives in the house TRW committee. He has them believing that SFW will fix all that is wrong with wildlife in Wyoming.

A classic example was today, when he spoke against funding the grizzly bear portion of SF45. His "concern" was that he and his group felt that if general fund money was used that the "green groups" would have a seat at the table when grizzlies are delisted. Thats just not factual. Wyoming hunters have already spent 35 million...yes MILLION, on grizzly bear recovery in Wyoming. I dont care what influence any green group may think they have, they flat havent paid the freight. A 2 million a year general fund appropriation is not going compare to 35 million that hunters have already spent. Secondly, the green groups already have a seat at the table on grizzly bear recovery. My thought is, may as well make them pay for that seat.

Bob has convinced a handful of the house TRW committee that any general fund monies committed to the G&F is harmful. That somehow, a group other than SFW will have a say in Wildlife.

I can also assure you that the only reason Bob and WYSFW are in favor of the employee health benefit coverage in SF45 is because he'd be the turd in the punchbowl if he wasnt. The Wyoming Sportsmen Alliance has heavily backed this bill.

WYSFW is losing face big-time...apparent from the collapse of the Cody Chapter (and from what I hear soon to be others). If he continues to be on the wrong side of nearly every GF bill that hits the legislature, his group is done.

Theres some new Sheriffs in town...and thats not a good thing if you're WYSFW.
 
Thanks for the response Buzz. I always appreciate your views....and usually agree with them.

One more thing, did I read somewhere that Wyosfw is backing the 10% cap on NR tags? It might seem appealing to some residents but it might be a case where Wyosfw is trying to defund the department again. If that's true then we're all going to be big losers.

Thanks,
Zeke
 
Zeke,

Absolutely WYSFW was responsible for that bill. It was also another attempt to defund the GF, thats their goal.

All the things they've done in the last several years is to drag down the GF and trash them at every opportunity. Sadly, they have a small core of idiots that believe the GF squanders money, is wasteful, and they also blame them for everything from the Endangered Species Act to Grizzly bears.

Theres people on this board that do it...(see wolfhunter and blueticker for 2 classic cases).

Thats sad, in particular when the GF is required, by Statuate (passed by the Legislature), to manage ALL wildlife in Wyoming.

That takes a herculean effort and management costs money. What the GF does with a 70 million dollar budget is nothing short of spectactular. The fact that there is a 1.1-1.4 BILLION dollar direct economic benefit annually from that expidenture is also nothing short of spectacular.

Its also funny to me, that WYSFW is demanding the GF provide them an accounting of where the GF funds are going. Frankly, WYSFW would be better served taking out their fuggin' notepads and pens and trying to figure out how the GF is able to turn a 70 million dollar investment into 1.1-1.4 billion economic powerhouse for the State of Wyoming.

Even more ironical when you consider that Bobs own group in Cody asked for an accounting of where the funds they were sending to Bob were going. He wouldnt provide an accounting for his groups funds, but expects a full accounting of GF funds, that he has NO right to even ask for.

Hunters pay the bills and there is a commission in place to over-see the operations of the GF. The Legislature and WYSFW should stay out of the way...we already have an accounting of funds and operations.

But, like I've said, WYSFW is not interested in anything other than full control of WY's Wildlife. Whatever small spark of hope WYSFW may have had thinking they will accomplish that is over...count on it.
 
>feduptwo,
>
>Thank you...those letters of support really
>pay off.


Wharff is shrewd because he knows that amending a Senate bill in the House means it has to go back to the Senate IF the House approves it. In this budget session, time is of the essence. I think it's his attempt to kill it.

On another note
Not saying whether to do it or not, but I've been told by several legislators that when they get messages they hold the most value in their local constituents, county residents, state residents in that order. In other words it won't hurt, but no legislator is going to change his vote over what he hears from NRs. No offense to anyone meant.
 
Buzz
As usual you go to name calling of anyone who isn't in lock step with you and all of your know it all opinions. I guess this time it's my turn. I haven't even made a comment on SF45 and didn't plan to but I guess you felt the need to fire a warning shot over me and Wolfhunter's bow before one of expressed an opinion.

For some reason you get so upset and apparently feel threatened by anyone with a different mindset than yourself. Wyoming is apparently a far too conservative state for a liberal big government bureaucrat such as yourself who feels that governments have the solution to everything.

To call me or anyone else an idiot on a public forum is both childish and pathetic. You have single handedly turned this website into a very sour place with your constant bullying, name calling and condescending comments. I for one get very sick of how you talk down to others each and every day you are on here. You do more on this forum to divide hunters than any PETA member could ever dream of. You pit hunter against hunter on a daily basis.

I read a lot more than I write on this site and I'm far more interested in folks talking about hunting than politics but this site has unfortunately turned into more of the latter than the former due in large part to you.

I don't know why you feel the need to start fights everyday. Strange.

Buzz's quote
"Hunters pay the bills and there is a commission in place to over-see the operations of the GF. The Legislature and WYSFW should stay out of the way...we already have an accounting of funds and operation"

ARE YOU SERIOUS COMRADE?
Our legislature and private citizens should stay out of the way and never question our government's expenditures? That statement is unbelievable! Wow! Wow! Wow!
 
Blueticker stated: "Buzz's quote
"Hunters pay the bills and there is a commission in place to over-see the operations of the GF. The Legislature and WYSFW should stay out of the way...we already have an accounting of funds and operation"
ARE YOU SERIOUS COMRADE?
Our legislature and private citizens should stay out of the way and never question our government's expenditures? That statement is unbelievable! Wow! Wow! Wow!"

***Classifying you as an idiot along with Wolfhunter may have been a little harsh, LOL, but to say you are wrong about your take on that statement wouldn't be. What I believe BuzzH stated and you completely misinterpreted was that there is a structure in place in Wyoming that was designed to keep the G&F and the Commission as an autonomous operation so that politics and meddlers like Bob and his SFW group that only want to bring down a Department for it's own gain are minimized. Unfortunately, the Legislature has sole say over the fees G&F can charge and that is hindering a great Department and creating a deficit that is only going to get worse if Bob and SFW get what they want and that is a decimated G&F so they can get their foot in the door and control the wildlife in Wyoming just the way it is occurring in Utah!
 
Easy there TG,
Comparing WYSFW and it's current direction has nothing in common with Utah. Period, end of story.
You might not like the Utah situation but it has zero in common with Wyoming.
In Utah the SFW was actually a big part of the solution for years and we have the big game animal numbers because of their involvement, not inspite of it!
(I know everyone will point at deer as the big stumbling block but the poor damn mule deer is down everywhere).
I don't see where they want to be part of the solution, with WYSFW. It seems more sneaky and underhanded and they have NOT been part of the soultion and have not grown the BG herds. It appears they simply want to capitolize on what Wyoming already has.
Totally different from my perspective.
Zeke
 
Zeke
I'll tell you a story. Bob Wharff approached me and asked me my opinion why he couldn't get a chapter going strong in Natrona County. I told him one reason was everyone feels his group is for set-aside licenses in Wyo. He denied it and would not listen to another word I said. But he kept talking.

Now is there any doubt that he lied to me? What reason does Wharff have to kill SF 45?

Buzz is right on this one, don't care how he says it. SFW is SFW no matter what state and their thinking is not for me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-14 AT 01:21PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the reply Jm77,
It's too bad when one guy does all the talking and refuses to listen. I can appreciate how you feel.

Deerlv,
In a word; NO
It shouldn't happen. period.
They can look like Utah SFW but they can't, won't, didn't and will never do for the herds what Utah SFW did. Maybe Utah slid into bed with the F&G but WYSFW is trying to sneak in.

I'll repeat, from my perspective it seems that WYSFW is simply trying to capitalize on what BG Wyoming already has. Totally different no matter how you cut it. Maybe still fruit but don't compare apples to oranges.

Thanks for listening.

Zeke
 
Zeke---I hate to say it, but I think you are more than naive on this SFW thingy. Do you know who got Bob Wharff to quit his job over at Deseret in Utah to start the Wyoming SFW Chapter? If you don't I'll give you a little hint. His initials are DKP and that's who bankrolled the initial startup of SFW in Wyoming. That being the case, I think 1 + 1 = 2!!!
 
I hear what you're saying, now try to hear what I'm saying too.

If YOU can't see the difference then we'll just drop it.

No amount of gum-flapping on MM will change minds anyway.

Zeke
 
Update on this bill...the bill passed the house on first reading and the amendment to remove the grizzly bear costs was declined.

Which means the bill is intact, including the grizzly bear portion that Representative Marty Halverson tried to take out in committee.

Now would be a good time to fire off some emails to your House Representatives to support SF45.

Looks like WYSFW and Bob Wharff are losing influence in Cheyenne...
 
GVH,

HER issue is that she hates the GF and wanted to amend the bill so it wouldnt make it past the first reading on the floor.

She has a real ax to grind that last year the GF "made program cuts".

Whats really funny about that, is the fact the TRW committee killed every funding bill and demanded, via Bob Wharff, that they GF stream-line the Agency.

Well, the bottom line is, you force the GF to cut their budget by 10% something has to give. She chewed Director Talbotts a$$ at the Committee hearing Monday for "cutting programs, especially fish stocking". She further chastised the Department and Director Talbott by saying, "you were trying to pay us back for cutting your funding!".

I'm just not real sure what she expected? Something had to be cut...less funding, less programs, pretty simple really.

I can also tell you that Director Talbott has a lot more patience and fortitude than I have with the Legislature. I KNOW for a fact, I would have had said many choice things to Rep. Halverson. I tend to repay in kind when people act like she did.

In an even bigger twist of irony, Representative Jaggi, said the GF is producing an inferior product and that sportsmen arent getting anything for their money. He said if the GF improved the amount and quality of wildlife, they could raise more funds.

Well, again, I'd like to know how you mangage and try to improve wildlife with no funding increases and funding CUTS??? Management is not free, and intensive management is really not free.

The other big thing that Jaggi kept stammering on about was he wanted to, "see an accounting of where the GF money was going". Apparently he hasnt tried looking on the GF website.

He's being spoon-fed a bunch of garbage by Bob Wharff. Bob and WYSFW want to be controlling every decision that the GF makes. Including, but not limited to, what species the GF make a priority to manage, how the GF manage it, how much the GF spend to manage.

The final bit of hypocracy is that Bob Wharff and WYSFW provide ZERO funding to the GF. Other than whatever license fees they contribute as RESIDENTS.

WYSFW provides the least, but expect full control. Well, I got news, that isnt going to happen.

Its a mess in Cheyenne, but the Wyoming Sportsmens Alliance is trying to get the train back on the tracks.
 
Buzz

To Halverson's credit she mentioned the youth program's cut by the department. There isn't anyway you can justify those cuts to me. That simply was the department making a cut, to make a point and it doesn't sit well with me. Talbot screwed up there.

Lots of kids lose out with no Hunting Expo and nothing's more important than our youth. Period

Cut the damn bird farm sink hole of money. Private bird farms can take up the slack.
 
jm77,

I tend to agree with you on the bird farms and the importance of youth programs. No arguing that.

However, if the legislature would stay out of the GF policies, all those programs would still be in place. We have a GF commission for a reason, let them do their jobs.

Instead, Halverson, Jaggi, Piipirene, Hutchings, and Gay continue to hack away while drunk on WYSFW Kool-aid.

Its also interesting how the "fab-5" think THEY fund the Game and Fish with "their" money.

Its not "their"money...its OUR/SPORTSMENS money, put there via sportsmen paying either license fees or self-imposed taxes through Dingell/Johnson Pittman/Robertson funds. If not for the 100 years of Sportsmen paying the freight, there would be a "T" committee as the R (resources) and W (wildlife) wouldnt exist.

They're just like Wharff, dont fund anything but want full on "control".

I'm pretty quick to place the blame where it belongs. They forced the hand to start with...

All of those cuts could have been avoided if the legislature would have stayed off the SFW Kool-aid.
 
You know what I think of Wharff, but I'm not so sure all five are drinking the Kool-aid. I can vouch that at least one of them hates the Utah based sportsman group.

Even though the idea of legislative control does prosper in the two branches and I see us holding the line in great need of reinforcement.
 
Marti Halverson is embarrassing, I used to read her twisted letters in the Casper paper.
We had a good representative in Jim Roscoe, he quit and this nut got in. The thoughts of even talking to her make my stomach turn.
I know her type and its a bad deal, but what can you do?
 
>Marti Halverson is embarrassing, I used
>to read her twisted letters
>in the Casper paper.
>We had a good representative in
>Jim Roscoe, he quit and
>this nut got in. The
>thoughts of even talking to
>her make my stomach turn.
>
>I know her type and its
>a bad deal, but what
>can you do?


***Answer--Vote her sorry azz out onto the streets at the next election if she's a nut!!!
 
Another update...SF45 passed the second reading.

Goal line is in sight, but keep letting your Representatives know your thoughts...

Final reading tomorrow.

BTW, Halverson and Gay both argued to amend the bill to take out the GF employee health portion of the bill.

Guess they dont know what they want, other than to kill everything that benefits the WYGF Department.
 
So, I finally got around to reading this bill. It does not automatically provide money from the general funds of the state to the G&F Department but rather tells them to submit a budget request for the legislature to consider. Seems that this would/could mean that the G&F is even now more beholding to the Legislature than before and in particular to the members of the JAC who are the prime movers and shakers when it comes to deciding what is in the budget and what is not. In good financial times they may get what they request, in bad times they may get cut off like a red-headed step child. Budgeting for the future is not easy to do when you are at the whims of the legislature.
 
The Bill passed. Buzz can expand on it, he did lots of leg work.
SFW was on the other side. Makes me wonder just who they support?
 
wyowill,

Maybe you should ask Bob Wharff or Richard Berman to explain the bill to you...

You seem to be lock-step in line with both.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-14 AT 05:58PM (MST)[p]Top.....your sentiments are exactly what I was trying to stress in the general forum under the "WY G and F not attending the Expo" thread. I fully believe the SFW is only interested in ham stringing the Game and Fish so that they can reap the rewards in the end. Several, including Founder himself, scoffed at the notion. I believe it's foolish to believe they are after anything to the contrary,
 
I wasn't asking for an explanation of the bill. I can read and understand these things pretty well. I was merely stating that even with the passage of the bill, additional funds for the G&F is not a guarantee.


Buzz stated at the beginning of this thread: "The bill asks for general funds to cover Game and Fish employee's health benefits and also the costs associated with grizzly bear management." The bill really puts into place a mechanism for them to make the request for these funds.

The bill states:


"(e) The commission shall prepare a separate budget
requesting general funds for the department's participation
in the state employee's and official's group insurance plan
for the next biennium as determined under W.S. 9-3-210(c)
and shall submit that budget for review, recommendation and
approval as provided in W.S. 9-2-1010 through 9-2-1014.1.
Any funds appropriated by the legislature which are
specified for this purpose shall be retained in a separate


account, expended only for this purpose and notwithstanding
any other provision of law shall not be transferred or
expended for any other purpose. The commission shall
prepare a separate accounting of the costs incurred in each
fiscal year as required under W.S. 9-3-210(c) shall include
the accounting in its annual report.

Section 2. 8 This act is effective July 1, 2014."

I have dealt with the Wyoming legislature enough in the past 25 years to know that making a request and getting the funds requested can be two entirely different things. They may choose to fund the entire request, a portion of the request or none of the request. They may fund some one year and change that amount in the next request made. It does, IMHO, make the department even more beholding to the legislature as I previously stated. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen. We cringe at the legislators being in control of the wildlife and it seems that this bill may open the door for even more of that control. I would have preferred to have a bill simply declaring the game and fish employees are a part of the state's employees and thus their health and retirement benefits will be included in the state's pool. Clean, simple change that removes this item from the department's budget and let's them concentrate on game and fish management and not on whether they have these benefits or not.
 
wyowill,

Going to be tough for the Legislature to not fund the Game and Fish employee health benefits. In particular since this bill had strong support from the Legislature. Not to mention that the GF employees are about the only State employees who dont have their health benefits paid from the general fund.

Also fair to note that Governor Mead is in full support of this bill as well...plus he's also in support of the wildlife trust that will receive additional funding as well.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if the Legislature chooses to continue not funding the GF, Sportsmen in this State vote, and they vote every chance they get. There will be consequences for those that fail the Sportsmen of Wyoming.

As far as the GF being "beholding" to the Legislature, they already are and were long before the passing of this bill. If you're so worried about the GF being "beholding" to the Legislature, tell them to allow a fee incrase bill then. Thats precicesly what the WSA did, and the Legislature quickly shot that down (since 2008). Tell the Legislature to keep out of GF issues, and let the agency act via the over-sight of the Commission and Sportsmen.

My thoughts are, since the Legislature wants to have some level of control, they may as well be paying for their seat at the table and what control they think they have.

The WSA also made it clear, as did Director Talbott, that we will take a look at either greatly reducing, or eliminating, the grizzly portion of the bill once they are delisted and hunting continues.

But, I feel since 35 million worth of Sportsman License fees have paid for grizzly bear management since 1984, that asking for 2 million a year when we're this close to the finish line of delisting is the least the taxpayers can do.

This is a good bill.

Finally, you're quite the Monday morning quarterback...maybe instead of whining and crying about everything you should enter the arena with all your "great" ideas.

Or you can continue to swill the SFW kool-aid that your buddy Wharff feeds you.
 
Don't have much of a taste for Kool-Aid. Or at least I didn't think that I did. I am so glad that you have looked deep into my post and figured out just who I am, what I am about, what I have done or not done in the past and passed a judgment upon me.

Did I say it was a bad bill? Did I say the legislature would not fund the G&F? Did I say the taxpayers (interpreted in Wyoming to mean the energy industries) should not help pay for the grizzly bears? This bill may have strong support from the legislators now but the members of that body will change over time and that support may change with it. The G&F will also be competing even more with all the other agencies and special interests for additional funds from the legislature and the Governor-who is also subject to be changed from time to time. Nothing stays the same.

But thanks for your work on this matter.
 
wyowill,

Much harder for the Legislature to take something away once its established, no question of that.

Sure, things can change, and they are.

I look for the WSA and Sportsmen in Wyoming to start making some significant changes that will favor the Wyoming Wildlife Resources as well as Wyoming R and NR hunters.

Stay tuned...and away from the SFW kool-aid.

Did I miss you at the Sportsmens Reception? The meetings with Governor Mead? The Legislative committee hearings?
 
wyowill---I think I understand your "beholding to the Legislature" comment and am not sure I agree that it would give them more control over the G&F, although maybe that would give a bunch of them that idea. I do agree with you that it would probably have been a simpler solution to do what you stated and just introduce a Bill that says the G&F employees, being true state employees, shall be included in the health and retirement benefits of all State of Wyoming employees. I guess the grizzly money might have to be done the way it is now though.
 

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