res vs nr prices

M

mntman

Long Time Member
Messages
3,788
I know I am possibly one of about .01% of the hunting population to think this...

I think it is one heck of a scam that NR's have to pay so much more $$ for the same tag as a RES. Its ridiculous, here in CO a res moose is $254, NR is $2149. Talk about a rip off. Impossible to say NR's pay for the majority of costs when there are so few especially on species like moose, sheep, mnt goat. Sure for CO elk, the NR pays a big chunk of the $ but still. 600-1200 for a NR elk tag is crazy. Sad thing is its only going to get worse.

If states raised res prices, example CO doubled elk fees to $100, it would more than off set a NR fee to bring it into a more realistic cost. States are simply driving their own customers away from hunting.

We are all NR's in 49 states...

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
I would say it is supply and demand. As long as they have a never ending line it will continue to go up. Soon you will see tier pricing for new move ins and those that have more money and they can go to the front of the line. You see that with the auction tags but soon it will be 50% of the tags then it will be all of them just like TRI wants. Slippery slope we are on.

DZ
 
There isn't state legislator alive that will vote to raise his constituents hunting fees in order to lower the NR fees.
 
>There isn't state legislator alive that
>will vote to raise his
>constituents hunting fees in order
>to lower the NR fees.
>


There isn't a politician alive that will vote to lower ANY TAX, FEE, PERMIT, LICENSE ETC. ETC. ETC.....
 
As a conservative, I'm all for a free market society. If non rezi tags can command a specific price, then so be it. No one is owed a right to hunt out of state. It comes down to priorities. If you want to hunt a specific State, budget and save your money accordingly...
 
That said, like mtnman, I have friends and relatives that come from out of state and I'm ebarrassed at the way my state (Colorado) rapes them.
 
>There isn't state legislator alive that
>will vote to raise his
>constituents hunting fees in order
>to lower the NR fees.
>

At least he wouldn't be alive for long. :)

The weak link is the NR hunter. They can abuse them without a lot of repercussion because there will always be enough to fill the limited tags.
 
Look at Wyoming nr regular and special tag fees. I think it's a great concept but there is not a huge difference in draw chance between the two anymore. People will pay.
 
If you have the $ , do it , if you don't have the $ , don't do it. I used to have a high paying job and hunted at least 2 , sometimes 3 states per year and didn't complain .

Now I have a low paying job and need to budget my hunting $ accordingly.

If the price of the tag is the deciding factor, you probably can't afford the hunt .
 
Sure enough, some are happy if they can get the time and afford a good hunt in their own state. How many states do you need to hunt in? How many deer a year do you need to kill, given you get drawn? How many hunts does it take to make you happy?

I've never begrudged non residents hunting in my neighborhood and often point them in some directions that might help, but I don't believe one state owes anything to another state's residents to hunt there. As stated above, apparently there are those willing to pay. When they no longer are willing to pay, then one might see some changes.
 
Many of my NR hunts have been "unsuccessful". However, I had a great time and consider it money well spent.

Those who need a kill to justify the money spent need to reconsider, in my opinion.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-17 AT 08:05PM (MST)[p]They've figured out NR OTC elk tags and points are a cash cow, so I figure they'll keep using and abusing that.

The tag allotment is lenient as heck for NRs, so I'm really can't complain about how CO treats NRs.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-17 AT 08:09PM (MST)[p]But why slit the non resident workin mans throat who dreams of hunting elk or mule deer in the process? I can remember being in Minnesota as a kid and reading all those outdoor magazines, Outdoor Life, Field & Stream, Sports afield, Petersen's Hunting and wishing and dreaming about the day I would hunt the Rocky Mountains. I wanted it so bad I threw everything I owned in the back of a Ford Ranger at the age of 22 and moved to Colorado with little money, no prospects, knowing no one in colorado, with only the confidence of Youth. Had I stayed, there's no telling if the dream would have ever become a reality. I tend to agree with mtnman on this one, and paying more for my resident license is going to piss me off!
 
Hunting is getting to be a rich mans sport even in ones own state it seems. What used to be so simple has now been commercialized to death. Forget our 1000 yard super rifles and g7 rangefinders and go back to the old days , I think we might be better off .......... In many ways !
 
I'm happy hunting my own State, even if it is California but I enjoy an out of state hunt too, usually to hunt a species not available here. Residents should get the lower fees, I have no problem with that.

Nonresidents are vulnerable because there is no way for them to organize and protest. That's just a fact. If there are 100 nonresident tags available, they can raise the price to the point only 105 people apply. What are nonresident going to do? They can't vote, and they would never organize and boycott a state. I'm not saying a state would raise the price that high, but they do price some people out now. There are a lot of poor people out there.
 
I have never hunted as a non-resident because I can't afford it. I have been a resident of Utah, Nevada, and now Wyoming. Hands down Wyoming is my favorite state of the three. I plan on paying the $1500+ for Utah mountain goats and $800 for elk because I have a lot of bonus points. Then I will be done with Utah.

Overall, I am okay with nr paying more, but not 10x more. The wildlife and federal lands are technically owned by all residents of the USA although it rarely feels that way.

That said, I hope to hunt more out of state in the future.

Dillon
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-17 AT 00:35AM (MST)[p]Interesting discussion and there is nothing wrong with anyones opinions or questions. However for me there are a lot of questions beyond what has been discussed that I always ask myself, when prices of Res and Non-Res tag prices increase.

First one is: How does an out of State tag cost today, compare to what the tag cost thirty years ago. We know there has been huge inflation for a fuel, lodging, tires, vehicles, ammunition, meals, etc. How does the inflation of Res and Non-Res tag compare to other items.

Second one is: I keep getting told that we are loosing more and more hunters, especially youth hunters, so we must recruit and promote hunting more aggressively than we have in the past, or there will be no one left to support the hunting life style in the political area, that controls access, regulation, and ultimately all recreational hunting. If that is true, why does the gap between issued tags and applied for but not issued tags keep getting wider and wider. If we are growing the gap of unsuccessful vs successful applicants, how is it that we are in such a panic that we are loosing the life style? And.... if tag prices have been increasing faster than the inflation of other costs, what might those increases have to do with the growing number of unsuccessful applicants and our Fish and Game's constant change in regulations that increase demand. We don't need to name them but they are many and vary from State to State.

Third one is: What is a reasonable percentage of each States tags being issued to Non-Residents? Western State citizens pay extra taxes to support and manage public land game and fish, so if the State issues 10% (on average) of it's tags to NR, should the NR be asked to pay ten times more than the Resident hunter? More? Less? Why?

Fourth one is: If, at some point in time, most of the Game is gone from public lands, and the only Game left is on private, like it is in most midWest and Eastern States, should the price of NR tags go back down? Is the NR price of the tag tied to anything other than, "whatever the market will pay"? Are there other issues beyond pure "market place economics? If it is pure market driven, what is a sheep, moose, mt. goat, bison tag worth, on the free market? If it's not market driven, what factors are driving the price of Res and Non-Res tags up? Is it sinister or explainable?

Fifth one is: If these tag prices are all politic/economic driven and controlled in the political and/or economical area, why are so many sportsmen so anger and opposed to sportsmen and sportsmen's organizations that inject themselves into the political/economic environment, recognizing that we are not all members of the same Party or even any Party, and we all have political ideology differences, why don't we want to try to control the politics that effects us, as a group, rather than act as unorganized individualists, when it comes to hunting and fishing issues, such as tag prices and many other issues?

Just some of my thoughts, whenever this issue comes up, which it does every year or two.

I try to hunt out of State, as often as I can afford to. I don't ski, I don't own a large boat, I don't visit European, or take a lot of Cruises, I save what limited money I have for hunting and fishing, so I'll pay whatever it costs, and if the cost gets too high I'll have to cut back.

DC
 
I agree with ya Brian but what can ya do but pay the fee to hunt if ya draw?

I have had a separate hunt acct. $$$ for years and years and I am glad I started it....

Robb
 
You got it right Please dear I call that account Mad Money as in I get mad at the wife and go out drinking and whatever is left over is for hunting.
And that was what the fight was about in the first place.LOL

Out of State hunting is just a fact for me and has been for 30 years or so. I like to go back and hunt with the family in Utah but my son and I can't draw the same tags as they do the same year.

Best bet is OTC tags for Elk and we can hunt together which is fun but not always the best hunting.
 
>First one is: How does
>an out of State tag
>cost today, compare to what
>the tag cost thirty years
>ago. We know there
>has been huge inflation for
>a fuel, lodging, tires, vehicles,
>ammunition, meals, etc. How
>does the inflation of Res
>and Non-Res tag compare to
>other items.

I do not know the exact answer to this one. Growing up in MN my Dad and I did a fair amount of pheasant hunting. We started out going to a relative's farm in MN. Population went down so we headed to SD. It was great till SD, MN, ND and WI got into the NR price war. So we left SD and went to ND cause it was cheaper for a NR to hunt. Was hard for Dad to pay my way and his in SD.
Basically what I am saying is the NR price scam started in recent times I think.

>Second one is: I keep
>getting told that we are
>loosing more and more hunters,
>especially youth hunters, so we
>must recruit and promote hunting
>more aggressively than we have
>in the past, or there
>will be no one left
>to support the hunting life
>style in the political area,
>that controls access, regulation, and
>ultimately all recreational hunting.
>If that is true, why
>does the gap between issued
>tags and applied for but
>not issued tags keep getting
>wider and wider. If we
>are growing the gap of
>unsuccessful vs successful applicants, how
>is it that we are
>in such a panic that
>we are loosing the life
>style? And....
>if tag prices have been
>increasing faster than the inflation
>of other costs, what might
>those increases have to do
>with the growing number of
>unsuccessful applicants and our Fish
>and Game's constant change in
>regulations that increase demand.
>We don't need to name
>them but they are many
>and vary from State to
>State.
This one I feel is multiple reasons, 1. the % of Americans might be holding or declining but the population is growing so there is a larger number of people hunting.
2. People are way more active as they get older now then they were 20+ years ago. I seen a guy on this website shooting a great white tail this last fall. A mm's member dad if I remember right who is like 95 years old!! So you have hunters staying in the game longer creating a higher demand.
3. Many more people want quality animals vs quantity, so that forces state agencies to cut back on tags to increase the quality thus fewer tags.
4. With the advance technology in carrying capacity, states are able to keep populations in check and once a bad winter hits (like this year) tags are cut back. I would assume 35 years ago, they didn't really know and issued same amount of tags basically every year.



>Third one is: What is
>a reasonable percentage of each
>States tags being issued to
>Non-Residents? Western State citizens
>pay extra taxes to support
>and manage public land game
>and fish, so if the
>State issues 10% (on average)
>of it's tags to NR,
>should the NR be asked
>to pay ten times more
>than the Resident hunter?
>More? Less? Why?
>

This one is never going to be figured out. States vary so widely on this issue, CO has 35% I think for some hunt codes and then down to 10% for others depending on demand for hunt code. While the other extreme is NM where it is next to zero for NR's. Which is funny cause NM proves my point of not needing NR $$ to support state wildlife. So few NR's tags are issued in NM....

In regards to the pay you know my stance, I'd say maybe double of what a resident pays.

>Fourth one is: If, at
>some point in time, most
>of the Game is gone
>from public lands, and the
>only Game left is on
>private, like it is in
>most midWest and Eastern States,
>should the price of NR
>tags go back down?
>Is the NR price of
>the tag tied to anything
>other than, "whatever the market
>will pay"? Are there
>other issues beyond pure "market
>place economics? If it
>is pure market driven, what
>is a sheep, moose, mt.
>goat, bison tag worth, on
>the free market? If
>it's not market driven, what
>factors are driving the price
>of Res and Non-Res tags
>up? Is it sinister
>or explainable?

If game is no longer present on public lands in America then hunting will be extinct. Our system will have failed and all of the non hunters who support hunting will flee to the anti side in a heart beat.

>Fifth one is: If these
>tag prices are all politic/economic
>driven and controlled in the
>political and/or economical area, why
>are so many sportsmen so
>anger and opposed to sportsmen
>and sportsmen's organizations that inject
>themselves into the political/economic environment,
>recognizing that we are not
>all members of the same
>Party or even any Party,
>and we all have political
>ideology differences, why don't we
>want to try to control
>the politics that effects us,
>as a group, rather than
>act as unorganized individualists, when
>it comes to hunting and
>fishing issues, such as tag
>prices and many other issues?
>

Vast majority of people including hunters are in it for themselves and $$. If anyone can get an advantage over someone else they will in a heart beat. People talk a big game about equality till there is an advantage to be gained. Not going to get into details of that cause it will sidetrack this conversation into me getting banned :)

another aspect to consider is why are not fishing licenses priced 10x or more for NR vs Res?

>Just some of my thoughts, whenever
>this issue comes up, which
>it does every year or
>two.
>
>I try to hunt out of
>State, as often as I
>can afford to. I
>don't ski, I don't own
>a large boat, I don't
>visit European, or take a
>lot of Cruises, I save
>what limited money I have
>for hunting and fishing, so
>I'll pay whatever it costs,
>and if the cost gets
>too high I'll have to
>cut back.
>
>DC




I like to hunt new states, see new areas, try my knowledge against a new species/area. Its the challenge and excitement of the new experience for me. Yes I like hunting the same units in home state. there is a challenge to that too. Yes each year I get more meat than my girls and I can consume. I have a big bbq in summer where I supply the meat/drinks. I generally have about 40-50 people over. 99% are not hunters but they like elk, deer, moose etc... its the only time they get it. I give meat to friends/neighbors who are having a tough time financially to help them out too. However I eat a lot of game meat. I likely average around 8-10 meals/week that included deer, elk, moose, pronghorn etc...

With that said I don't think its right to rip people off simply because you can. If that is the case the gas prices for your car should be upwards of $10/gallon. How many people would be pissed then?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
Mntman I gotta buy you a beer (or 12) someday. I couldn't agree more with what you have stated. I was just thinking this exact same thing while reading another thread about NR license cuts in WY region G this year.
 
Sadly, when they double our resident elk tag price, they'll raise the non res price $50 or more at the same time. As I said no one in government will ever lower any tax, fee, license, pass etc etc etc..... The beast is only getting larger!
 
Well it may be lopsided and I see no recourse other than to just pay to play so to speak. I am fine with that. I to have a separate hunting fund that has been growing right along with my number of preference points, or bonus points what ever that state wants to call them. My fund is going to continue to grow as far as I can see. That magical number of bonus points keeps creeping up every year, so the way it works is that maybe, just maybe in the next ten years I may out live some of the other hunters in my pools. No lets talk about Utah, those crooks have it figured out. You have to have a hunting license to apply for a draw, then if you are NR you can apply for as many limited draws as your heart desires. Now there in lies the heartburn with that Damn Utah. If you a resident you are only allowed to apply for one limited entry species per year. So what this does it keeps the resident draw odds at a slower creep that the NR. You just check people on this board and see how many of them apply for multiple limited draws in Utah every year. If I could change one thing that would be it. Same rules for NR as residents when it comes to number of limited permits you can apply for in a year. But not to worry there wonderful Mr Chaffetz is going to sell of all there public land and then they will be out of hunting land unless they want to pay Tristate'buddies to hunt on there newly acquired property. But what the heck you could always secure the services of Mossback to lead you to a tied up buck and not have wait all those years. Just my humble opinions..
 
Like everyone says, there are pros and cons for everyone. As a Wisconsin resident I think it's ludicrous that people can come here and hunt for $160 when we put more Booner whitetails in the books than anyone but it costs us over $400 and a pp to hunt Iowa. That being said, higher prices keep quality up for the most part. The opposite can be said about Montana. Very high NR prices and low trophy potential. So there are pros and cons for every argument, but I'm sure some people feel as though their state caters to NR hunters, I know Wisconsin does.
 
I am blessed to have a very good job, a wife who makes almost as much money as I do and is also very understanding about my hunting and shooting addictions. I pay the non-resident fees, you have a choice, pay it and hunt or don't pay it and don't hunt! What really pisses me off is when I fork over almost $1000 to hunt deer and elk in Colorado or any other western state the residents ##### about the non-residents! Come on man, don't bite the hand that feeds the game commission!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-17 AT 08:46AM (MST)[p]Hope you noticed a couple of us coloradans in this thread stated the exact opposite view sako.
 
It has gotten crazy. I have curtailed many of my Western Applications. And don t get me started on points systems, what a joke. I'm done buying licenses I'm not going to use.
 
I believe the animals are the property of the state and since you don't pay the out of state income taxes, you just have to pay up. That is fair!
 
DW--I did, thanks, you guys are in the minority! Most western guys don't like the NR's even though our tag fees pay a large portion of the bill, 85% in Wyoming I believe.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-17 AT 03:52PM (MST)[p]It's the middle of application season obviously and for this 36 year old WI resident it gets down right tough to accept. I am very fortunate that I have an understanding wife and a great job that allows me to spend money on tags and applications. I apply for around 50+ hunts each year. I sat down with my brother who does the same thing I do and more (he has a son he applies for too) and couldn't help but shake my head at what I fork over each year to play the point game and draw tags. I will draw a unit 40 elk tag and 68 deer tag this year for Colorado, and just sent in my $2000 for the sheep lottery. So, March is always my least favorite month.

When I add up my out of state licenses and pref/bonus points in AZ, MT, UT, CO, ID, NM, NV, WY, OR, KS, IA, WA, & TX IT PUSHES $2000 A YEAR WITHOUT GOING ON A HUNT. THOSE ARE JUST NONREFUNDABLE EXPENSES TO BUILD POINTS. I fully realize its my choice but to say the average person is getting priced out of the better public land hunting out west is true. I know Randy Newberg does a great job proving through hard work and research you can have great hunts and trophy potential without doing what I do but the odds are not in your favor of drawing good to great tags without playing the point game. The cost of the Tag will be the least of my concerns by the time I figure in the decades worth of money I spent building points...(sitting on 6-12 pts for most species in every state that has them)

Again all my choice, and I'm not even complaining, just makes me realize how fortunate I am to be able to spend the money and draw some great tags. I know in the next couple years and really for the next 10 years I'm going to have some amazing hunts and see some amazing country and my income allows me to do it. I feel bad for the average joe out there that has no hope of having the same experiences...

This time of year, I think about the money, come sept, oct, nov...its the last thing on my mind!

on a side note, I've been fortunate enough to hunt in MT(3), NM(4), CO(9), UT(1), and WY(1) so far and 95% of all my interactions with the locals has been great. Might have something to do with my attitude towards them, how clean we keep our campsites, and how hard we hunt...
 
95%
>of all my interactions with
>the locals has been great.
> Might have something to
>do with my attitude towards
>them, how clean we keep
>our campsites, and how hard
>we hunt...


No sir, it has everything to do with that! Good luck this fall!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-17 AT 06:37AM (MST)[p]Interesting question. The practice does seem a bit un-democratic. What if Disneyland charged residents and non-residents different amounts for admission? Or Winchester, for rifles, etc? If I remember correctly, one object of federalizing our government was to eliminate trade barriers between states.
 
My perspective as CO resident: NRs pay high prices, but have options. NR cow tags are about half the cost of bull tags, residents pay same price for either tag. In many popular units NRs get 40% of limited licenses, which means residents of these units can't draw their home tag every year or every 2 years. I am willing to pay more for my resident tags, our legislature has defeated that proposal for the last 2 years. The small CO towns famous for big game hunting get a huge annual economic boost from NR hunters: Meeker, Craig, Norwood, Buford, Pagosa, Gunnison, etc. As do outfitters and landowners. Our state legislature knows this, that drives a lot of CPW game management decisions (OTC vs limited, quantity of game vs quality). Those decisions would be different if residents were the main source of license $s. So while the NR prices are high here they remain a bargain compared to some other western states, that is the math CPW uses in setting fees. And rules that favor NRs over residents is the price we all pay. I am grateful for NR hunters. While I don't get to hunt where I want every year, I do get to hunt good places every year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-17 AT 10:38AM (MST)[p]OMG, break out the box of cleanex. enough with the it's not fair socialist attitude. Just start saving up!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-17
>AT 10:38?AM (MST)
>
>OMG, break out the box of
>cleanex. enough with the
>it's not fair socialist attitude.
> Just start saving up!
>


The socialist attitude is the one that thinks feeding the beast more cash so the beast can distribute it the way it sees fit is a good idea. I'm still waiting for your first productive post, don't worry, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Bullskin, as far as Disney goes, they do have a yearly pass option for residents of the state. And believe me it is much cheaper. You can buy a yearly resident pass for the price of a single day admission.
 

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