I'm sure this has been posted before, but what the heck it's always fun to talk about this kind a stuff. I've been thinking about this alot latley. How big is big enough and how big is to big? I've shot two elk with a 270, one with a 300 win., and one with a 300wsm. All of my shots were under 200 yards and all were kills. They all were either rag horns or spikes, no mature bulls. If I ever draw a LE tag I want to make the best of it. I want a gun that will do it's job out to 500 yards. I would need a new gun. My vote goes for the 340 Weatherby with 210 grain accubond. I think any bigger and you're not able to shoot as far and flat. Whats your vote
ULTIMATE BIG BULL CALIBER
- Thread starter peakfreak
- Start date
257Tony
Long Time Member
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- 4,173
Yup, .338 Win will get her done on any Elk that ever walked at any sane range. A good 225 gr bullet behind whatever powder you like or have, mine seems to shoot the same with about 4 different powders. Not real expensive to buy or shoot, and wont quite break you shoulder if ya get a good pad.
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty 
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty 
Roy
Moderator
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- 7,446
30-06 165 grains. About the flatest shooting load period. Plenty of knockdown power and probably has killed more elk and deer than any other caliber in the worlk. It's all about shot placement.
My dad hand loads his .270 Winchester with several different variations of powder and grains. I forget how many grains he was using exactly but he shot a spike once at 75 yards in the neck. Before he cam back down from the recoil the bull was dead in the tall grass and he couldn't see it. Shattered every neck vertabrae and broke his back just behind the shoulders.
UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
My dad hand loads his .270 Winchester with several different variations of powder and grains. I forget how many grains he was using exactly but he shot a spike once at 75 yards in the neck. Before he cam back down from the recoil the bull was dead in the tall grass and he couldn't see it. Shattered every neck vertabrae and broke his back just behind the shoulders.
UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
blacktailBC
Active Member
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300 weatherby Mag. 180 gr. Accubonds. 3200 fps.
D
DallanC
Guest
>30-06 165 grains. About the flatest
>shooting load period.
Hahah thats quite funny.
-DallanC
>shooting load period.
Hahah thats quite funny.
-DallanC
S
sheepeater
Guest
300 Ultra Mag 200 grain accubond bullet 95 grains of Retumbo smoking out there at 3250 fps droppig a slight 13" at 400 yards at a 200 yard zero. Can you say splat. Try and make a 30 not 6 do that. Lot of difference in durability between a spike bull and big boy.
Shot placement is everything and it sounds like your a pretty good shot so stick with your 270. That being said, I think if your going to go weatherby I like the 300 for elk. It's plenty of rifle, It shoots 180gr fast and flat and brass is easy to get for reloading.
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bobcats
Guest
50 BMG shooting a 750gr. A-max.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
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300 Win mag
The best there is!
The best there is!
C
Colville
Guest
My dad can beat up your dad. FACT
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BLU
Guest
300 win to 340 wby is my vote. I shoot a 300 wby and would recomend that everytime. I've killed elk with it from 40 yards to 386 yrds and it has worked great with all 14 bulls i've shot. In the past, I have shot the balistic tip 180 and 165 and the4y work great. This year I shot the accubonds and at 80 yards, it dropped the 5 point in his tracks. My son shoots a 270 wby with 150 grn ballistic tips. It works well also, but doesn't have the "dropping it in it's tracks" effect on the elk, especially if you hit it in the big shoulder bone. It will kill it no doubt, just not the same knockdown effect. My dad shoots a 270 win. While it will do the job, the last 5 elk he has killed went around 100 yards except of one. All were dead on their feet but they are big animals. I have found the main thing with elk, especially big bulls, is to stay on the animal after the first shot. Watch until that beast stops moving before advancing on your trophy and keep shooting the thing until it is dead. I have had 2 good bulls with leathal hits get up with broken shoulders and start up the mountain. This years bull is a 332 that took 3 good hits to the shoulder with the 270 wby and still tried to get up for about 30 min. This was by sons bull this year. 2 years ago in Co., I again had a good hit on a 300 bull that put him down only to have him get up after 5 min. and try to get away. Anyway, the most important thing is to shoot a gun you are good with and then keep shooting until you kill him.
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bounder
Guest
I recently bought a 325wsm,haven't fired it yet.I liked the ballistics and thought what the hell. Have any of you shot this caliber yet or heard much?........Just trying to sneek it out of the safe to go shoot w/out the old lady seeing it.
It is about the ULTIMATE BIG BULL CALIBER. For the everyman working guy hunter, the .300 ULTRA is tough to beat. But I believe handloads will yield the best results. It shoots flat, but retains tons of energy out to and beyond 500 yards. It is tough to master to shoot accurately, but if you can shoot one, well, I've said enough. mtmuley
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pj31178
Guest
>Go with a 338-378 Weatherby or
>better yet, get a Barrett
>M82A1 .50 cal.
>That big bull can be at
>1,000 yards and still get
>him. It would well
>be worth the money.
Anything over a 300Win Mag is overkill...
Any shot over 500 yards is idiotic...even that is a stretch.
It's called hunting...NOT, see how far you shoot at something.
>better yet, get a Barrett
>M82A1 .50 cal.
>That big bull can be at
>1,000 yards and still get
>him. It would well
>be worth the money.
Anything over a 300Win Mag is overkill...
Any shot over 500 yards is idiotic...even that is a stretch.
It's called hunting...NOT, see how far you shoot at something.
C
camuleycrazy
Guest
I'm with you MTMULEY 300 RUM is probably best for average guy. 338 RUM is great also and will shoot heavier bullets. 30-378 is probably best choice of all but expensive to shoot and you need to reload your own or pay alot for custom bullets. You can shoot the remington ultra mags for less than the weatherbys and they have more velocity and power than the 300 or 340.
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bakerboy
Guest
Get a 300-7. it is a 300 casing with a 7mm bullet. we do home loads with it and we are using a 185 grain bullet and it is shooting at about 3600 ft per second. my dad shot a spike bull a few years ago just to prove a point at 648 yards. make sure you have a good scope for it. we use a shepard scope, works great.
CAelknuts
Moderator
- Messages
- 3,822
For an ultimate elk caliber, I'll stick with the .338 winchester. I shoot 225 grain bullets and have never had a problem with ANYTHING walking away. I was shooting trophy bondeds until this year when I tried Barnes triple shocks and found them to shoot under an inch with factory loads, so I made a change after many years.
A couple personal opinions about elk hunting. First, nobody in his right mind has any business shooting at elk at over 500 yards, with any rifle caliber; and I'll suggest that over 90% of hunters have no business shooting anywhere near that far. Second, we're talking about ultimate calibers, and the fellow above who advocates watching the animal until you're sure it isn't going to get up gives good advice, but if you have animals still alive after 5 minutes, let alone 30; you have absolutely no business sitting there looking at them unless you're still shooting. Ethics still play a part after you have an animal down and if he isn't dead you have a responsibility to end it quicker. Finally, if you're shooting a .270 anything and they aren't dying, you need to read this post again. Your caliber and shot placement is far from ideal, let alone ultimate. Stuff shot in the proper location with an adequate caliber/bullet dies in a timely manner. No exceptions to that rule. If it didn't die fairly quickly, you didn't hit it like you think you did, or you were shooting something inadequate for the game you were hunting.
On the other hand, you could talk to Roy. I've never heard of anything that was presumably broadside having every neck vertabre broken,let alone the back behind the shoulders too, like his dad's .270 did. Must have been shooting some kind of explosive bullet! Please, think about what you're writing before you post it. I'm sure you love your dad, but that was ridiculous.
A couple personal opinions about elk hunting. First, nobody in his right mind has any business shooting at elk at over 500 yards, with any rifle caliber; and I'll suggest that over 90% of hunters have no business shooting anywhere near that far. Second, we're talking about ultimate calibers, and the fellow above who advocates watching the animal until you're sure it isn't going to get up gives good advice, but if you have animals still alive after 5 minutes, let alone 30; you have absolutely no business sitting there looking at them unless you're still shooting. Ethics still play a part after you have an animal down and if he isn't dead you have a responsibility to end it quicker. Finally, if you're shooting a .270 anything and they aren't dying, you need to read this post again. Your caliber and shot placement is far from ideal, let alone ultimate. Stuff shot in the proper location with an adequate caliber/bullet dies in a timely manner. No exceptions to that rule. If it didn't die fairly quickly, you didn't hit it like you think you did, or you were shooting something inadequate for the game you were hunting.
On the other hand, you could talk to Roy. I've never heard of anything that was presumably broadside having every neck vertabre broken,let alone the back behind the shoulders too, like his dad's .270 did. Must have been shooting some kind of explosive bullet! Please, think about what you're writing before you post it. I'm sure you love your dad, but that was ridiculous.
L
littlebuck
Guest
for way out there to far away shots, I would use the 30x378. I have shot a 7mm rem. mag for years and I would also like info on 185 gr bullets that shoot like a 22-250
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bakerboy
Guest
Reddog
He has the 300 casings necked down to fit the 7mm bullet. it is shooting at 3600 feet per sec. when he first started he had them over 4000 but the loads were so hot they were blowing the primers out of the casing. it is a pretty amazing gun. has an extra long barrel. make sure you get a good sling because the gun weighs a ton.
He has the 300 casings necked down to fit the 7mm bullet. it is shooting at 3600 feet per sec. when he first started he had them over 4000 but the loads were so hot they were blowing the primers out of the casing. it is a pretty amazing gun. has an extra long barrel. make sure you get a good sling because the gun weighs a ton.
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DallanC
Guest
>Reddog
>
>He has the 300 casings necked
>down to fit the 7mm
>bullet. it is shooting
>at 3600 feet per sec.
> when he first started
>he had them over 4000
>but the loads were so
>hot they were blowing the
>primers out of the casing.
> it is a pretty
>amazing gun. has an
>extra long barrel. make
>sure you get a good
>sling because the gun weighs
>a ton.
Complete and utter BS. NOT POSSIBLE.
I shoot a rifle based on an even bigger case, the 7STW. Its made from taking a 8mm Remington Mag case and necking it down to 7mm... more case volume than your 300. 7STW cannot reach velocites like you ... /smirk ... are claiming with a smaller case.
If you want to BS people pick something at least moderately believable.
-DallanC
>
>He has the 300 casings necked
>down to fit the 7mm
>bullet. it is shooting
>at 3600 feet per sec.
> when he first started
>he had them over 4000
>but the loads were so
>hot they were blowing the
>primers out of the casing.
> it is a pretty
>amazing gun. has an
>extra long barrel. make
>sure you get a good
>sling because the gun weighs
>a ton.
Complete and utter BS. NOT POSSIBLE.
I shoot a rifle based on an even bigger case, the 7STW. Its made from taking a 8mm Remington Mag case and necking it down to 7mm... more case volume than your 300. 7STW cannot reach velocites like you ... /smirk ... are claiming with a smaller case.
If you want to BS people pick something at least moderately believable.
-DallanC
S
sheepeater
Guest
CAelknuts-I have to totally disagree with you on your shooting elk over 500 yards, theory, with these new calibers, modern optics, and range finders, 500 yards even to the average guy is not what it used to be. I know my exact bullet drop at 600, I realize limiting factors like wind and angles of shots and I make very conscious decision on wether or not to shoot. With my gun If I hold on the top spine of a bull at 500 he is toast. She only drops 23" at 500 yards. I grew up here in the west shooting all kinds of stuff at long range with all kinds of guns, so to say that nobody should shoot at over 500 yards is a bit pretentious wouldnt you say, in fact I know there are alot of guys on this board who are very capable of those shots these days. I think throwing the ethics thing in there is a bit of a stretch. Maybe you should go the monster doe forum or something.
CAelknuts
Moderator
- Messages
- 3,822
Well sheepeater, I'll stick to my guns. I too have shot stuff at over 500 yards on occasion, but I don't think its a good idea in at least 99% of the cases. In hindsight, it wasn't a good idea to try then, and I shouldn't have done it, even though it worked out ok. And with regard to your comment about many guys being able to make that shot, that is BS unless they regularly practice at those kind of ranges, and we both know that the guys who practice shooting at those ranges don't number 1 in 300 or 400 shooters, and probably a lot less than that. If a guy has a rifle and caliber capable of making that shot and he practices at those ranges quite a bit, I'll agree with you that it can be done and is ok to do in selected situations. Otherwise, learn some stalking skills and get a few hundred yards closer. Elk are big, tough animals that when hit wrong can go a long ways and possibly not be recovered. It ain't like shooting a pronghorn or deer where you'll recover him if he's hit decently.
As for the ethics subject, I'm fine with my ethics, are you? I think too many guys don't think about that when confronted with a chance at a big animal. Guys who'd never shoot at a small elk at 400 yards sometimes think nothing of lobbing bullets a lot farther than that when they see something way bigger than anything they've shot before. There is no ethical justification for doing so. If you woulnd't shoot the small bull that far, you have no business shooting at the big bull, either.
As for the ethics subject, I'm fine with my ethics, are you? I think too many guys don't think about that when confronted with a chance at a big animal. Guys who'd never shoot at a small elk at 400 yards sometimes think nothing of lobbing bullets a lot farther than that when they see something way bigger than anything they've shot before. There is no ethical justification for doing so. If you woulnd't shoot the small bull that far, you have no business shooting at the big bull, either.
257Tony
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,173
>Complete and utter BS. NOT POSSIBLE.
>
>
>I shoot a rifle based on
>an even bigger case, the
>7STW. Its made from taking
>a 8mm Remington Mag case
>and necking it down to
>7mm... more case volume than
>your 300. 7STW cannot reach
>velocites like you ... /smirk
>... are claiming with a
>smaller case.
>
>If you want to BS people
>pick something at least moderately
>believable.
>
>
>-DallanC
What he MEANT to say was he is using a .50 BMG necked down
Even the mighty 7mm RUM cant even approach those velocities. Hell, even Lazzeronis monstrous 7.21 Firebird only gets 3550 with a 160, and 3900 with a little 120. No way this guy has a chrony, he is just guessing, I see it all the time at gun ranges everywhere.
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty
>
>
>I shoot a rifle based on
>an even bigger case, the
>7STW. Its made from taking
>a 8mm Remington Mag case
>and necking it down to
>7mm... more case volume than
>your 300. 7STW cannot reach
>velocites like you ... /smirk
>... are claiming with a
>smaller case.
>
>If you want to BS people
>pick something at least moderately
>believable.
>
>
>-DallanC
What he MEANT to say was he is using a .50 BMG necked down
Even the mighty 7mm RUM cant even approach those velocities. Hell, even Lazzeronis monstrous 7.21 Firebird only gets 3550 with a 160, and 3900 with a little 120. No way this guy has a chrony, he is just guessing, I see it all the time at gun ranges everywhere. Somebody didn't like bouncing betty
B
bakerboy
Guest
We have chronied it and it is 3600 ftps and it is a 185 grain bullet. no bs. you can believe me or not i dont care. i have seen what it can do. it is a home made gun. it does what it does. believe what you want to. come to baker and i will show you.
257Tony
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,173
>We have chronied it and it
>is 3600 ftps and it
>is a 185 grain bullet.
> no bs. you
>can believe me or not
>i dont care. i
>have seen what it can
>do. it is a
>home made gun. it
>does what it does. believe
>what you want to.
>come to baker and i
>will show you.
So you are telling me that its a .300 win mag case, necked down to 7mm correct? That is exactly the same thing as the 7mm Rem mag. It barely musters 2900 with a 175 and a HOT handload. Its pretty much physically impossible to attain the velocities you are talking about with that case, the pressures would be through the roof, and blow out more than just a primer!
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty
>is 3600 ftps and it
>is a 185 grain bullet.
> no bs. you
>can believe me or not
>i dont care. i
>have seen what it can
>do. it is a
>home made gun. it
>does what it does. believe
>what you want to.
>come to baker and i
>will show you.
So you are telling me that its a .300 win mag case, necked down to 7mm correct? That is exactly the same thing as the 7mm Rem mag. It barely musters 2900 with a 175 and a HOT handload. Its pretty much physically impossible to attain the velocities you are talking about with that case, the pressures would be through the roof, and blow out more than just a primer!
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty HuntElk4Fun_
Active Member
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- 502
I'm a reloading fanatic (not an expert by any means), but they have to be thinking of the 7mm RUM case on this one. The 300 and 7mm RUM cases are the same, with it necked down. I've owned and reloaded for both the 7mm (still do) and the 7mm RUM. I can see you getting that in the RUM case, but not the standard 7mm case. Not enough room for powder, compressed or not. The RUM case however, holy cow, felt like I emptied the whole bottle in there every time! LOL
ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
Hunt Odds.com
ODDNUT1
Kirt C.
Hunt Odds.com
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sheepeater
Guest
fair enough
J
Jake_Sorensen
Guest
Personally I love my 338 win mag with 225 grain Hornady SST's and IMR 4350, it has alot more of a push then kick and I could shoot it all day long with out problems, they are some of the best reloads I've ever done(300 winny, 270, 22-250, 308, and 30-06) I would have no problem shooting at an elk 400-500 yards with confidence with it.
R
RIMROCK338
Guest
A 7mm 185 gr bullet at 3600+
You useing a 40 inch barrel and coal for powder!:
Give me the load data please. I promise I'll cut it back 10% and work up from there. :RIMROCK
You useing a 40 inch barrel and coal for powder!:
Give me the load data please. I promise I'll cut it back 10% and work up from there.
:RIMROCK
3
300WSM
Guest
My dad shoots a .338 with a hot load that flings a 250 grain bullet about 2700 fps. It does the job pretty handily. This year I'm using a 7mm Mag. Not quite the knockdown power but good enough for me. Realisically, I don't think that you can go too big. Unless you know your going to have to take the really long shots. But something in the middle of big and fast I think is the best.
"Tenderloins - a carnivores' candy"
"Tenderloins - a carnivores' candy"
S
Shootwice
Guest
>I know my exact bullet drop
>at 600, I realize limiting
>factors like wind and angles
>of shots and I make
>very conscious decision on wether
>or not to shoot.
....>I grew up here in
>the west shooting all kinds
>of stuff at long range
>with all kinds of guns,
>so to say that nobody
>should shoot at over 500...
Even the above average shooter should not shoot something like an elk at 600 yards. You "grew up" shooting far. Even so it's still a long shot. What does the wind do at 600 yards? What does the wind that is different at 200, 300 etc. do? It's not a gambler's term "it's a long shot" used for shooters, it's a shooter's term used for gamblers.
>at 600, I realize limiting
>factors like wind and angles
>of shots and I make
>very conscious decision on wether
>or not to shoot.
....>I grew up here in
>the west shooting all kinds
>of stuff at long range
>with all kinds of guns,
>so to say that nobody
>should shoot at over 500...
Even the above average shooter should not shoot something like an elk at 600 yards. You "grew up" shooting far. Even so it's still a long shot. What does the wind do at 600 yards? What does the wind that is different at 200, 300 etc. do? It's not a gambler's term "it's a long shot" used for shooters, it's a shooter's term used for gamblers.
257Tony
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,173
>A 7mm 185 gr bullet at
>3600+
>You useing a 40 inch barrel
>and coal for powder!:
>Give me the load data please.
>I promise I'll cut it
>back 10% and work up
>from there. :RIMROCK
He already gave it to me! .50 BMG necked down to 7mm, make your own bullets, 200 grains of RETUMBO!!!!!!!!!
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty
>3600+
>You useing a 40 inch barrel
>and coal for powder!:
>Give me the load data please.
>I promise I'll cut it
>back 10% and work up
>from there.
:RIMROCK He already gave it to me! .50 BMG necked down to 7mm, make your own bullets, 200 grains of RETUMBO!!!!!!!!!
Somebody didn't like bouncing betty
R
RockyMtnOyster
Guest
7MM Remington Magnum with whatever Dad has loaded up for it.
KABOOM!
RockyMtnOyster
KABOOM!
RockyMtnOyster
R
rackem406
Guest
The good ol' long shot ethics debate. There are so many factors to take in account when making a long shot, but when the situation is right and you are range proven, then shoot. I have to agree with sheepeater. Today's equipment and loads with a hunter who has practiced at those ranges can take that shot.
Let's say you've been working a big elk all afternoon working your way closer. You come over that last ridge where you think he will bew 250 yards away. You peak over and in that time he has moved across another ridge and you know you won't be able to cut the distance in time. What do you do???? If you don't have the equipment and no how you wait until the next day, but if you do, then you take your bull right then. That is the situation a buddy of mine had last year and he took his bull with one shot at 575 yards with a 270 Weatherby Mag.
Is the equipment an excuse for not working hard? I don't think so. I was well prepared to take a long shot on a muley this year with my equipment and practice, but I ended up being able to get a 150 yard shot on my buck. You still have to work hard and when this situation arises you decide (based on your experience and practice) if it is an ethical shot.
If you won't take a long shot that is great that you stand by what you are comfortable with. But don't expect an apology from someone who shoots a bull from under you when you are stalking in as close as possible.
Rackem
http://www.needgod.com/
Let's say you've been working a big elk all afternoon working your way closer. You come over that last ridge where you think he will bew 250 yards away. You peak over and in that time he has moved across another ridge and you know you won't be able to cut the distance in time. What do you do???? If you don't have the equipment and no how you wait until the next day, but if you do, then you take your bull right then. That is the situation a buddy of mine had last year and he took his bull with one shot at 575 yards with a 270 Weatherby Mag.
Is the equipment an excuse for not working hard? I don't think so. I was well prepared to take a long shot on a muley this year with my equipment and practice, but I ended up being able to get a 150 yard shot on my buck. You still have to work hard and when this situation arises you decide (based on your experience and practice) if it is an ethical shot.
If you won't take a long shot that is great that you stand by what you are comfortable with. But don't expect an apology from someone who shoots a bull from under you when you are stalking in as close as possible.
Rackem
http://www.needgod.com/
O
old_man_of_the_hills
Guest
I WOULD expect an apology if somebody shot a bull out from under me, if he knew I was stalking it.
R
rackem406
Guest
I hear you old man, in a state like Colorado where you are dressed like a pumpkin I don't think there could be any excuse for not seeing the guy putting the stalk on the bull. At that point I think I would just pull out my camera and film the stalk and hopefully the kill.
But here in AZ there are no hunter orange laws so it is much easier to miss someone on a stalk. I was guiding a rifle bull hunt a while back where I got my client moving down off a ridge to intercept a herd to get a shot on one of the bulls. As I watched him set up below me I noticed 2 guys about 500 yards off stalking in too in full camo. They didn't know my hunter was there and my hunter didn't know they were there either. Back then we weren't using radios so I couldn't talk to him, but he took his shot AT THE WRONG BULL, and was happy with filling his tag. The other hunters came in and talked for a while then went on to try and get on the herd bull again.
Kind of makes you wonder if they should require the orange here. Good thing they weren't coming in on eachother with the bull between them. That could have gotten ugly.
Rackem
http://www.needgod.com/
But here in AZ there are no hunter orange laws so it is much easier to miss someone on a stalk. I was guiding a rifle bull hunt a while back where I got my client moving down off a ridge to intercept a herd to get a shot on one of the bulls. As I watched him set up below me I noticed 2 guys about 500 yards off stalking in too in full camo. They didn't know my hunter was there and my hunter didn't know they were there either. Back then we weren't using radios so I couldn't talk to him, but he took his shot AT THE WRONG BULL, and was happy with filling his tag. The other hunters came in and talked for a while then went on to try and get on the herd bull again.
Kind of makes you wonder if they should require the orange here. Good thing they weren't coming in on eachother with the bull between them. That could have gotten ugly.
Rackem
http://www.needgod.com/
E
elkantler75
Guest
how about a 600 grain arrow with a cut on contact broadhead like the magnus stinger launched from a 70 lb. draw weight bow at 30 yards?
elkantler75
elkantler75
T
Trophymossback
Guest
Don't know anything about how mean your old Lady is, but any caliber from 300 win mag to 340 works just fine if you can shoot straight.
I really like the 338/06 and 35 Whelen for elk calibers. Low recoil and puts the bulls down to stay!
TM
I really like the 338/06 and 35 Whelen for elk calibers. Low recoil and puts the bulls down to stay!
TM
T
Trophymossback
Guest
That is a great combination!
B
BullDog06
Guest
I prefer the 30-378 weatherby mag with a 180 grain barns. Not always bigger is better. All it is, is a 30-06 on steroids. It shoots flat hand has plenty of knock down power when it gets there. I use it for elk and deer. If you read the ballistics it's pretty hard to beat.
