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Measuring Black Powder

 
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OchocoKid
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Sep-26-17, 
11:17 PM (MST)
"Measuring Black Powder "

I've been using Pyrodex pellets for shooting but they're not legal to hunt with so I have to switch to loose powder.


I have loaders with volume measurement marks but I've read you should use weight measurement. which would it be on Pyrodex ?


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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Measuring ...  brutus54      Sep-27-17   1 
 RE: Measuring ...  Dryfly      Sep-27-17   2 
  RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Sep-27-17   3 
   RE: Measuring ...  OchocoKid      Sep-27-17   4 
 RE: Measuring ...  hntbambi      Sep-27-17   5 
  RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   6 
   RE: Measuring ...  OchocoKid      Sep-28-17   7 
    RE: Measuring ...  elkassassin      Oct-01-17   11 
   RE: Measuring ...  hntbambi      Sep-28-17   8 
    RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Sep-29-17   9 
     RE: Measuring ...  OchocoKid      Oct-01-17   10 
      RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Oct-01-17   12 
       RE: Measuring ...  elkassassin      Oct-01-17   13 
        RE: Measuring ...  OchocoKid      Oct-01-17   14 
         RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Oct-02-17   15 
          RE: Measuring ...  OchocoKid      Oct-14-17   16 
           RE: Measuring ...  txhunter58      Oct-14-17   17 
            RE: Measuring ...  COLOelkman      Oct-17-17   18 

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brutus54
(413 posts)
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Sep-27-17, 
08:10 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

This is what I use.

https://www.shop.com/CVA+AC1410+CVA+ADJUSTABLE+POWDER+MEASURE+BRASS+W+SPOUT-1569582879-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298&CAWELAID=120179650036678878&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=22435473779&CATCI=pla-61529866819&CATARGETID=120179650035805672&cadevice=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvurYgsXF1gIVBZSyCh3BiwGSEAQYAiABEgLiLPD_BwE

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Dryfly
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Sep-27-17, 
11:08 AM (MST)
2. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

I may be an anomaly here but I weigh all my charges. I have the same measure as the guy above. I filled it 10 times then weighed them, they varied by 3+ grains in either direction. 5-6 grains difference is plenty enough to affect accuracy. I now weigh but you need to be careful because weight by volume and by measure are not the same.
For example 100 grains of blackhorn 209 by volume = 70 grains by weight. Each kind of powder is different.
Accuracy while shooting from a sled improved noticeably when I started weighing.

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txhunter58
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Sep-27-17, 
11:46 AM (MST)
3. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-17 AT 01:16 PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-17 AT 11:50 AM (MST)

Volume!!

Whenever you hear people taking about using a certain amount of powder, they are talking volume unless they specifically state they are weighing it.

Manufactures make recommendations that are ALWAYS by volume. It is a convenient method for comparing different powders of different weights.

When you buy a "magnum" blackpowder that can handle UP TO 150 gr of powder, they are talking volume.

That said, some powders are stronger than others. 777 and Blackhorn 209 powders are at least 10-15% stronger than pyrodex by volume

IMO, you should always work up a load by volume. Then if you want to weigh that volume and stick with that weight, you would be fine

I have never gone over 110 gr of powder by volume on any hunting load. My elk load is 90-100 gr of BH 209 (volume) depending on which bullet I use.


When I work up a new load with loose powder, I start at 90 gr (volume) and shoot 3 times, then 95 gr, 3 times, then 100, 105, 110. Usually by that time I find an accurate load and concentrate on that amount. If I go over 110 gr of loose pyrodex (or 100 gr of 777 or BH209), the recoil starts affecting my accuracy (I flinch)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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OchocoKid
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Sep-27-17, 
02:29 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

I've been shooting 150 gr in pellet form but the manual says 120 is max in loose form. so I'll start by volume I guess.

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hntbambi
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Sep-27-17, 
09:20 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

There is nothing wrong with weighing charges as long as it is done correctly. It is much more accurate than the generic by volume measures that are sold.

Use a volume measure and set it to 100 gr and measure some powder. Now weigh that exact charge in a powder scale and see how many grains it is. I prefer to do 10 charges and average to find what amount by weight I will use. This is the data I use. I am not saying use any of these charges, or that they are safe in your gun, just what I found and use(d) in my guns.

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txhunter58
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Sep-28-17, 
11:31 AM (MST)
6. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17 AT 11:33 AM (MST)

Wow, great chart! And certainly nothing wrong with weighing your charges as long as you understand the difference.

The one thing that worries me is that someone will see the BH 209 chart and try 150 gr of BH in their gun. The manufacturer will not cover the damage to the gun or you if your gun blows up with this much powder. I would never, ever go over 120 gr of this powder in any standard magnum 150 gr rated gun. Would probably be OK with a smokeless muzzy, but I would not feel comfortable shooting this with standard blackpowder rifles, especially older ones.

I am pretty sure that if the OP used 120 gr of BH 209 in his gun he would experience an increase in recoil over the 150 gr of pyrodex pellets.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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OchocoKid
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Sep-28-17, 
07:15 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

I don't want anymore recoil than 150 of pellets has. ouch.


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elkassassin
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Oct-01-17, 
07:17 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

>I don't want anymore recoil than
>150 of pellets has. ouch.
>
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>Stay Thirsty My Friends


PUSSSSSSSSSY!

Cowboy-Up & Use some Real Powder!

BH 209!

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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hntbambi
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Sep-28-17, 
08:25 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17 AT 08:29 PM (MST)

Very true. I have not measured stinky powder as I will not shoot that crap in my guns any longer, but here is a pressure trace of 95 gr by weight of BH209 pushing a 350 gr bullet in my custom SML.

Here is a 100 gr by weight of BH209 and a 350 gr bullet.

Here is 105 gr by weight of BH209 and the same 350 gr bullet.

BH209 does not build pressure like regular smokeless powder.

I have shot many 150 gr charges of Pyrodex pellets and loose in my old guns Rem 700ML and TC Black Diamond and the recoil from 120 gr by volume BH209 is not as bad. I was shooting 200 and 235 gr bullets. I shoot 85 gr by weight with a 300 gr SST in my TC Omega for my elk load and it is stout but very manageable.

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txhunter58
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Sep-29-17, 
06:07 AM (MST)
9. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-17 AT 06:09 AM (MST)

BTW OchocoKid. Not all guns can shoot BH 209. Has to have a closed breechplug design. That said, it is the only powder I shoot in my guns that will handle it.

I can tell you that 90 gr BY VOLUME of BH 209 and a 460 gr bullshop bullet is about the max I can take on recoil.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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OchocoKid
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Oct-01-17, 
06:50 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

I have a 700ML, not sure what closed means but I have to have open ignition .

Oregon has a lot of stupid laws for muzzle loader hunts it's probably not legal powder anyway.

I'm going to use a 245 gr Thor solid copper because that's about as good as it gets with the regulations.

It's like they want to sell you the tag but they don't want to let you use anything more lethal than a rock fill it.


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txhunter58
(5777 posts)
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Oct-01-17, 
07:26 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

What are you hunting?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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elkassassin
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Oct-01-17, 
07:34 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

>What are you hunting?
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)


CROWN ROYAL!

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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OchocoKid
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Oct-01-17, 
08:47 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

Deer tag in a few weeks.


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txhunter58
(5777 posts)
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Oct-02-17, 
10:49 AM (MST)
15. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

So anything in the 100 gr range would be more than adequate. I would start with 90, 95,100,105, 110 and see what flies well and how you react to the recoil. With that bullet, there is no reason to go more than 110 gr with the loose pyrodex.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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OchocoKid
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Oct-14-17, 
02:37 PM (MST)
16. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

110 grains seems to work fine.

One question though, I pour in 110 gr and with just a little shaking it's down to 100 gr. how do you measure properly ? just as it pours or shook down?


I don't suppose it matters , but being used to centerfire loading this would be HUGE.

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txhunter58
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Oct-14-17, 
09:31 PM (MST)
17. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-17 AT 09:34 PM (MST)

I use the measurer that has a swing over spout on top that cuts off the powder. I pour it over full, tap the side of the measuring tube exactly twice, and then cut it off and pour it in. The only way to get more exact is to weigh it, and you can do that, but I have never had any real difference when I just measure the volume.

By tapping it, I mean flicking it with my middle finger

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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COLOelkman
(755 posts)
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Oct-17-17, 
08:54 AM (MST)
18. "RE: Measuring Black Powder "

I have found that different powder measuring devices can provide different amounts of powder. ie. I've filled one device to 100 gr then dumped it into another and it read 95. So I'm not sure the number is the most important thing but mainly that you stick to measuring the exact same way with the same measuring device. Like TX said, if you flick the tube twice after filling it, do it the same way each time so that you are consistent. I usually fill the device with a brass powder holder with a trigger then tap it 3 times on the table. Which would give me different results if I only tapped once. So consistency is the key to consistent loads.

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