Howa rifles yeah or nay?

dogdoc

dogdoc

Active Member
Messages
343
Looking to get my wife a new rifle for her elk hunt this fall, and I am considering a Howa. My son has a Weatherby Vanguard, and I like it. Any opinions?
 
Both good choices as we have both and I give the edge to the Weatherby.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
The Howa 1500 and Weatherby Vanguard are the same gun, from the same factory, with a few cosmetic differences. For a budget rifle, $500 and under, I would put the Howa at the top of my list.
 
Also the same as the smith & Wesson 1500. I have several, good usein rifles. Won't go wrong either way.
 
Since you asked, nay. unimpressive guns in my opinion.

I'd rather have a used something else if you're trying to keep the cost down.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
I knew they were the same, that's why I was considering it. My sons shoots pretty nice for a bargain gun, and I don't mind the trigger.
 
Let me add to my statement. Howa has a bulkier feel with the hogue stock as the vanguard is more streamlined. Someone please correct me if I am wrong but IMO the triggers are not the same as the vanguard trigger out performs the Howa and not even close.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
I would take a Howa 1500, or Vanguard made on the Howa 1500 over a Remington 700 any time of the day. Very close to a Rem. 700 with a better Sako style extractor, and recoil lug as part of the receiver like a Win.70. I used to get the Howa 1500 barrel-actions and build custom rifles with a Shilen match barrel.

One quirk I found with them was that a good number of them would shoot 1/2-3/4 inch groups with the factory barrel with Nosler or Federal factory ammo. The Howa 1500 has a adjustable trigger that is safer then the Remington 700 trigger.

I do not know if Weatherby is still doing it, but they would test fire the Vanguard rifles made by Howa for them and many were super accurate and they sold those rifles at a premium price and guaranteed the accuracy.

RELH
 
Saw an online add the other day, somebody had em on sale for $329. If I see it again I'll post it up.
 
I guess that's why so many more sniper rifles have been built on the Howa action than the 700 ?

Buy american.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Dude when they started building military sniper rifles on the M-700 action, Howa was not building the 1500 then. Also that was during the time the military preferred American made. The Howa is a better platform then the Rem. 700 even if you do not know that fact. Stick with your Win. M-70 rifles which you seem to know something about.

RELH
 
I'm not impressed at all with Howa or the Weatherby/Vanguard branded gun. I still don't get how they can call them a Weatherby. They are not even close to one. I'll take a Rem 700 over them any day of the week.
Throw a Timney trigger like I did on my Rem and you'll have a nice gun.

I have a Rem 700 BDL 300 Win Mag with a 26" fluted barrel and it shoots lights out. I was going to use the action for a custom build but I lucked out with a nice tight chambered barrel that would be hard to beat should I have spent thousands to upgrade the gun.

I'm not sure what caliber you are looking at but I couldn't find a 26" barrel on the Howa's/Vanguards. They were 24" only. That was a major factor to me when looking for a 300 Win Mag.
 
Excaliber you are throwing your money away for a rifle that requires a after market trigger like you did with your Rem. 700 in 300 mag. A M-700 will run you about $900.00 at a gunshop and you add a trigger group for around 100-125 bucks and you got over a thousand bucks invested in a Remington rifle that has a poor reputation for overall quality control'

You would have been better off to pay about $1,140.00 and buy a Winchester M-70 that still has a very good reputation for accuracy and quality control. It has a 26" barrel in your 300 mag caliber. The Howa 1500 is a very good entry level rifle for persons wanting to pay around $400.00 for a rifle that will give them great service far exceeding the price they pay for it.

As for your Remington. I have built up several custom rifles on a customer's M-700 actions and I found most lacking in quality control. P!ss poor extractor, should have used a Sako style extractor like the Howa did.

The Remigton 700 is built on a longated cylinder that any lathe operator will tell you is the easiest to center and keep the tolerance to very small specs. Where Remington cuts the front receiver threads for the barrel, I have found them to be anywhere from 15 to 35 thousands out of center on 3 out of 5 Remingtons I have done. Many top custom smiths will recut the Remington threads to true up the action and get everything centered to aid accuracy. They refer to it as "blueprinting" a rifle. Most Howa 1500 were within 15 thousands that I measured from the box.
Far better quality control from Howa on a rifle costing 1/3 the price of a Remington 700. Remington also had a problem with their bolt handle breaking loose from the bolt itself due to poor soldier job. Hopefully they have started brazing the bolt handle on for better retention.
It has been 15 years since I have built up a Howa action, or a customer's Remington 700 action, but those experiences soured me on wasting money on a Remington 700 when you can get better rifles in the same price range, or even a cheaper price range.

RELH
 
RELH, not everybody listens to your Remington bashing you know. Some of us like em amd shoot bugholes with them. Your pricing is way off also. No sense trying to talk guys out of a 700 if that is what they want. mtmuley
 
I don't like them for poor quality control and the fact they hid the problems with their "Walker" trigger group for years. You like them and due to me and others like me, you have more available to buy. So be happy! As for my pricing, I used Davidson's gallery of guns that give me the retail price of the three different rifles from about 6-8 gun dealers in my area.
I rounded off the price of the Howa 1500 to 400 bucks as several shops had them at 360-380 bucks.
If you call that bashing and giving false prices, you are wet behind your ears with ignorance. Just because you got one that shoots bugholes, does not mean that is the average of most out of the box M-700. I have seen many that at best groups were on the average of 1-3/4 and 2 inches. I do not own any rifle that will not shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards, and have many targets showing 3/8 to 5/8 inch groups. What is a "bughole" to you may be not good enough for me. You are forgetting that I used to be a LEO sniper and my standards are higher then the average hunter on both rifles and handguns.

RELH
 
Howa made lots of rifles that killed lots of americans in my dads generation. why did it take them 60 years to pull off a slightly better quality product. buy american .

700's are a better rifle all around out of the box. put a Jewell in them and a Sako extractor and they're hard to beat.

I do prefer the riflemans rifle ( model 70 ) that's a fact, but since 1964 the accuracy in the ones I've tried has been less than impressive. I have never tried the post USRA models I'd hope they're better.










Stay thirsty my friends
 
Ok RELH. Shout it out on your soapbox. We had this same "discussion" about 10 years ago, remember? You, me and RLH if I recall. The only guys you convince that a 700 won't shoot are wet behind the ears. By the way, sounds like our bugholes are the same. mtmuley
 
It boils down to the old argument that some guys like Chevys, some like Fords, then the third guys pops up and says that Dodge is the better truck.
You can keep buying Remington 700s and I promise not to buy them and cause a spike in price due to demand. My biggest argument is quality control with Remington. You better hope you never need repairs at their expense, or you may be disappointed as their is a ton of complaints on customer service with Remington overall. When Remington bought out Marlin, the hard core Marlin users were dissatisfied with the poor quality Marlin rifles that Remington turned out. They advised new buyers to find a used "JM" Marlin lever action over buying a "Remlin" and drove the prices sky high on the older used "JM" Marlins. I am not along on that soap box.

RELH
 
Like most guns Remington isn't what it used to be, not that they were ever top of the line. but that doesn't help Howa any.










Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-15 AT 07:30AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-15 AT 07:30?AM (MST)

It looks like I got things all riled up again. I'm happy with my Rem 700 that Rem made for Cabelas with the fluted barrel. I got it on sale for around $469.00. I added a brand new Timney trigger and I have less than 600.00 into the gun.

Maybe I got a really good one but it seems like many people have good ones. All I know is it's really accurate. Rem maybe isn't top of the line but IMHO they are allot better than a Howa.

It has the 26" barrel I wanted and the speeds and accuracy this gun provides with quite a bit of freebore is impressive.

Remington might not be what they used to be but I've been shooting their guns since 1978 and they have never let me down yet. I'd say for the money they are one of the best bargains around if not the best.
I'm no military sniper or comp shooter but just a regular guy who was looking for a gun that could be used to kill elk and shoot paper at ranges out to 600 yards+. I think this gun could do that easily if I do may part. So far I've been more than pleased.
Others may disagree but the good thing is there are quite a few guns in this price range to choose from.
 
I might look at a Howa or a Vangaurd if the price was right and I needed another rifle...my 700 -06 works great.So I don't need another.

A few years back a buddy was calling it quits as a sniper instructor,after 25 yrs as one,Marine. Gunny asked 2 of us hunter guys to look for a used 700 in -06,he wanted a good hunting gun.
I said out of all the factory rifles and calibers and custom(Weatherby was in neighborhood and we knew the owner)rifles you can get,why a 700?
He said he wanted a hunting gun that could take the blows/abuse and always be dead on.

I have friends very happy with their M70's too,and I don't preach that they should change.................and I've never regretted buying my 700 close to 40 yrs ago.

Saw a great deal on a Howa in 300WM the other day in Springerville,AZ.
 
If the OP is looking for a bargain priced rifle, it might be wise to check out the Ruger American. I've never even seen one, but might check them out. I have some tang safety guns, and Ruger makes a reliable rifle. As far as Remingtons, from what I understand, quality is better of late. Read an interesting thread on the low priced ADL's from Wal-Mart. (In the 300 dollar range RELH. That's where I was stating the difference in pricing.) Lot of guys buying them for donors and discovering sub MOA accuracy. Howas look interesting, but not any bargain when compared to other like rifles. And I know it's impossible to buy totally American, but at least we still can with guns. Had some Winchesters, even a pre-64 featherweight. They all went down the road. Worst shooters I had. So I guess it is Ford vs Chevy. If I was the OP, I'd get the wife to the gun store and let her pick the one that feels "right" to her. Regardless of what is stamped on it. mtmuley
 
I think all this clowning around arguing rifle makes is pretty funny.

There isn't a factory rifle made that is without its problems out of the box. The biggest joke of an over-priced rifle I've seen lately is a super grade Winchester model 70. Action was crap, slop everywhere, 26" worthless barrel, heavy, marginal bluing, and a mid-grade piece of wood. Not anywhere near the quality of a pre-64. But, I'm sure it would have shot fine, but not what I would pick for a hunting rifle and in particular with the price tag.

Any of the standard production rifles, no matter the make, is going to take some work to maximize performance. Just a fact.

I own various rugers, Winchester, remingtons, and every one has shot good enough to hunt big-game. Put some work into the right places on any of them, they became damn fine rifles that are typically more capable than the average nut behind the trigger.

As to Howa and Vanguards, I've dealt with a few of them as well, and they all shot excellent. IME, bed, float, and maybe a timney or rifle basics trigger and you're there.
 
That's what I always said until I owned a few very accurate rifles. on a bad day with a few of my custom rifles I can shoot better groups than a good day with an average rifle.

And I don't claim to be a marksman. rifles are like anything else you get what you pay for.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
I have found that accuracy, or the lack thereof, often lies in the ammunition and the trigger operator. You can cram crap ammo with pressure variances and size issues into the finest rifle and it will act like a piece of crap. I have a bunch of Howas and Remington's and Winchesters, and many others. They all need work to be their best and they all have the potential to be very accurate.

I crack up at guys who proclaim that one certain brand is somehow superior across the board. I am honest enough to recognize that my preferences are often just that.

In a nutshell, yay on the Howa if you find one you like.-----SS
 
>I have found that accuracy, or
>the lack thereof, often lies
>in the ammunition and the
>trigger operator. You can cram
>crap ammo with pressure variances
>and size issues into the
>finest rifle and it will
>act like a piece of
>crap. I have a bunch
>of Howas and Remington's and
>Winchesters, and many others. They
>all need work to be
>their best and they all
>have the potential to be
>very accurate.
>
>I crack up at guys who
>proclaim that one certain brand
>is somehow superior across the
>board. I am honest enough
>to recognize that my preferences
>are often just that.
>
>In a nutshell, yay on the
>Howa if you find one
>you like.-----SS

In fact some brands of rifle's are superior to other brands across the board. The same goes for handguns and shotguns. Having personally sold thousands of guns and owned several hundred over the years, you begin to see patterns of some brands coming back for warranty work or defects. Some manufacturers seem to have more recalls than others. Some companies have great customer service, while others try to deny any existing problems and sweep them under the rug, until they are sued and forced to do something about it.


So yes there are big differences between guns. Sometimes the differences are obvious and other times not. There are guns that feel cheap and shoot great. There are guns that feel very refined yet they malfunction at an alarming rate. So yeah, some are better than others.
 
I think the fights over the Howa/Vanguard vs Rem 700's is comical. Clearly the Rem 700 is the king when it comes to semi-custom and custom gun actions. Even most custom actions are 700 clones. That said, the second most popular is either the Savage or the Howa.

Yes most guns now, out of the box, can shoot. Few under MOA without a lot of reloading work and load development. But, if, as BuzzH said, you get a decent stock(Medalist), and do or get a good bedding job, and you reoad, then you will find an MOA load which will kill deer/elk out past where most guys are ready to shoot(400-500 yds).

I personally rank off te shelf manufacturers of guns at $1000 or less like this:

Tikka
Browning
Savage
Remington
Weatherby/Howa
Winchester
Ruger
Mossberg

This is based on my experience, and 15 years of reading reports online. All things being equal, if you are willing to spend a few extra bucks with a competent gunsmith, then buy remington as nothing is even close when it comes to customizing. On top of bedding, add a trigger and stock, and maybe a barrel.

Now you'll have a gun that can shoot a true and consistent .5-.7moa with multiple loads.
 
What brands of rifles "malfunction at an alarming rate"? I have owned worked on and build hundreds and this is not my observation.

If I am building a serious custom, it will be on a Remington, a Remington clone, or a High grade Savage. For casual shooting, hunting, and building cool semi custom jobs, any of the major players will do fine in my experience. The only rifles that I don't have enough experience to speak about are the Tikkas and I hear nothing but good about them.

Same goes with lemons. I have seen rifles of all brands that were sub par. A friend recently bought a high grade Savage in 6.5 Creedmore that would not shoot better than 3 MOA. Savage replaced the rifle with no explanation. Doesn't mean that Savage makes crappy rifles, only that they make a few crappy ones.......just like everyone else.

Go with your personal preference by all means. Just don't be surprised when others have experiences that differ from your own.

It's not just coincidence that Remington and Leupold are the standard by which all other rifles and scopes are compared. ------SS
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-15 AT 06:11PM (MST)[p]>What brands of rifles "malfunction at
>an alarming rate"? I
>have owned worked on and
>build hundreds and this is
>not my observation.
>
>If I am building a serious
>custom, it will be on
>a Remington, a Remington clone,
>or a High grade Savage.
> For casual shooting, hunting,
>and building cool semi custom
>jobs, any of the major
>players will do fine in
>my experience. The only rifles
>that I don't have enough
>experience to speak about are
>the Tikkas and I hear
>nothing but good about them.
>
>
>Same goes with lemons. I have
>seen rifles of all brands
>that were sub par. A
>friend recently bought a high
>grade Savage in 6.5 Creedmore
>that would not shoot better
>than 3 MOA. Savage replaced
>the rifle with no explanation.
>Doesn't mean that Savage makes
>crappy rifles, only that they
>make a few crappy ones.......just
>like everyone else.
>
>Go with your personal preference by
>all means. Just don't be
>surprised when others have experiences
>that differ from your own.
>
>
>It's not just coincidence that Remington
>and Leupold are the standard
>by which all other rifles
>and scopes are compared. ------SS
>
Agree.
And I never said or would that Rem.is best.It's just what I have and I'm happy with it. Same with the 94'Win. 30-30 I stared with 45yrs ago and is always in my truck now.
Oh and my Remington 700,is a 30-06...............bring on the love,lol

I think I'll pick up that Howa 300 WM anyway....I heard they are good.
 
Years ago I bought a Howa barreled action in .300 WSM and put it in a stock that I had bedded. It was a tack driver. Not sure if they are still selling them that way.
 
>Dude when they started building military
>sniper rifles on the M-700
>action, Howa was not building
>the 1500 then. Also that
>was during the time the
>military preferred American made. The
>Howa is a better platform
>then the Rem. 700 even
>if you do not know
>that fact. Stick with your
>Win. M-70 rifles which you
>seem to know something about.


The M-24 that I was issued in my Army days uses the 700 long action.
 

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