300 WSM for elk?

colorfulife · Jul 3, 2015

I started hunting California coastal blacktail deer by Remington 700 Mountain rifle in 270 caliber from 1995 then I got into elk later. So, I upgraded my rifle to Remington Ti 7mm Rem SAUM (Short Action Ultra Magnum) and have been using it exclusively. This rifle has outstanding performance of taking antelope and deer yet I lost couple cow elk after hours of tracking. Therefore, I thought moving up to 300 WSM caliber will solve my problem. I have done some reading about lighter version of hunting rifle and am interested in Sako Finnlight 300 WSM.
Please help me as I have very limited experiences (only 2 rifles from the same manufacturer0:
1. moving up from 7mm to 300 WSM is needed for elk.
2. switching from the manufacturer of my last 20 years of using Remington?
3. I started hunting WY cow elk on open sage brush terrain where 500 yards shot is also my concern/desire.
4. Any suggestion and recommendation.

Thank you guys very much in advance.

sageadvice · Jul 3, 2015

Getting a bigger hammer is not going to fix your shot selection or poor marksmanship.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

mtmuley · Jul 3, 2015

Yep, what Joey said. 7mm's will hammer elk when hit right. mtmuley

colorfulife · Jul 3, 2015

Thank you Joel and Mtmuley for lighting speed of advises.
Agreed totally. Will spend a lot of time on the shooting ranch before hunting trip.

Another help needed:
Is caliber of 270WSM by Sako Finnlight a good choice?

Thanks again.

Weiserbucks · Jul 3, 2015

Instead of wasting money on a new rifle , spend it on ALOT more ammo and premium bullets for your Remington . Practice , practice and practice some more . With proper shot placement and quality bullets lost/wounded game should be a thing of the past . There's not an elk on the planet that cant be taken cleanly with any of the 7mm magnums . Hell , I've even heard that some people are even able to take elk with archery equipment .

264mag · Jul 3, 2015

I have a Sako 75 in 300wsm and have taken deer to a Kodiak Brown bear with it and it shoots great.

sageadvice · Jul 3, 2015

color, didn't really want to come across as being mean but if you lost a couple Cow elk with 7mm short mag hits, trailed the wounded but couldn't find them, especially in open sage country, you're doing something wrong.

i agree. Good quality constructed bullets, nice shot placement, and reasonable , for you, distances on your shots = dead animals.

The 270WSM is a wonderful all around game cartridge but no better really than the 7MM Rem Short mag. Some guys that don't mind recoil step up to the 30 cal Mags because they can use heavier bullets but i always like practicing my shooting skills with something i felt comfortable shooting, bench or field practice, so i prefer the mighty mid's as the heaviest i'll hunt with and leave the bigger stuff to those that don't mind them.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

440sixpack · Jul 3, 2015

Your top priority should be becoming the best shooter you can be because no gun will make up for really bad shooting. but yes , a bigger faster bullet will help in many cases you'rte correct. it's called an increased margin of error and some people just can't seem to grasp that. don't let the BB gun shooters tell you otherwise that's nonsense.

If 500 yard shots at elk are your plans I'd say a 300 WSM is good but a 300 RUM is better. or a 300 Win Mag or WBY mag in between is what I've chosen. any will do.

Practice ,practice practice , get a bigger gun and quality optics and a good bullet and your results should change.

Stay thirsty my friends

elkchaserreturns · Jul 3, 2015

Hello colorfulife,
This topic is fun to kick around and, if you are like me, you can't have too many new rifles! So, if this helps you talk yourself into a new rifle, go for it!
HOWEVER!
Your 7MM SAUM should do just fine on any elk out there if you hit em where your supposed to, with a properly constructed bullet, of sufficient weight, AND AT A SANE DISTANCE!!!!!
Please understand, I am not suggesting anything negative about you, or your shooting abilities. I have made a few embarrassing shots over the years and, when I was lucky, I just missed. A couple times I was not so lucky and the elk paid for it. When something like that happens, I really try to be honest with myself and figure out what really happened, and make sure I don't do it again.

I first started big game hunting back in the late sixties. Back then, there was an article in one of the hunting magazines discussing this very subject and (I think it was Outdoor Life, but I won't swear to it!)the author told a story about the Innuit Indians using model 94 Winchester 30-30's, 30-40 Krag's, and even a few Savage model 99's in 303 Savage' on POLAR BEARS, MUSK OX, & CARIBOU!
His point was that all of us experts down here in the lower forty eight, just knew that nothing short of a 338 Win Mag should even be seen in Alaska and the Arctic Circle but, NOBODY TOLD THAT TO THE LOCALS!!! Their very survival relied on the rifles they carried and they got along just fine without all of these new magnums that were coming out about then! They knew what their rifles were capable of and they made sure they didn't stretch those capabilities.

If your Remington 7MM SAUM was a lefty, I would offer to buy it off of you!
Sako makes an awesome product! But if your going to go to a 30 caliber, I would go with the 300 Win Mag. It handles the heavier 180-200 gr bullets a little better!
Then again, everyone knows that you simply must have at least a 338 Win Mag, shooting 225 gr bullets minimum, to even hope to take down an elk!
No disrespect intended!
Good luck!

mtmuley · Jul 3, 2015

.270's .284's, and .300's in all varieties work for killing elk. Pick one. Select a bullet/load and go kill one. It ain't rocket science. mtmuley

tailchasers · Jul 3, 2015

I can appreciate the OP's question. I have shot a few elk with a 7 mag and have seen them walk away and even stand as if nothing has gone through their boiler room. My experiences have been at less than 300 yards and all the elk have taken more than 2 rounds to get them to take a knee while using accubond bullets and strong velocity behind them. My thoughts are the bullet is traveling to fast not allowing full expansion and terminal damage and with each instance having a complete pass through. My comfortable range is 400 yards and I am learning the 7mag needs more reach with my specific load to provide adequate terminal damage. Is this something the OP is experiencing. Me? I am near the point of wanting sometjing a bit bigger and slower to get the full affect of the bullet in the game animal.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

colorfulife · Jul 3, 2015

Thank you all for sharing your superior experiences and awesome suggestions and recommendations.

Will go through all components of my 7 mm to make sure they are clean and within the spec. Then tightened them to the spec so nothing loose or any pinching point including scope rings/bases. Then, hit the ranch to make really sure of my equipment to get it into sub MOA. Enjoy what I have including tasty venison!!!

Thank you very much again.

BeanMan · Jul 5, 2015

My 30.06 is so outdated...

sageadvice · Jul 5, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jul-05-15 AT 11:02PM (MST)[p]"My 30.06 is so outdated..."

It's still and always will be a good one Fred. The Rodney Dangerfield of hunting cartridges... no respect

I always liked it when i could buy another rifle in a different cartridge for a specific purpose though for years i did everything with my right out of the box Rem 700 in 25-06. Some rifle combos seem to hunt better for me than others. Maybe the OP might just be better suited to not necessarily go bigger but to a different rifle setup and build confidence in that.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

k22hornet · Jul 6, 2015

With a good bullet, in the right place, your 7mm is plenty capable of killing elk, even at longer ranges.

The last bull I shot was ranged at 417yds. My load is a 130gr Barnes TTSX at 3,150fps. At the hit, the bull took 2-3 steps and dropped.

When I got to him, I was even more impressed with Barnes, and I have used them since 1992. The bullet entered the right side, exited the left side, re-entered the upper left leg, smashed that big bone, and then exited.

I'm a big fan of the mono-metal bullets.

Zeke · Jul 6, 2015

I like big guns but they are no substitute for accurate shooting. Besides, a 7mm Mag, of any cartridge configuration, is considered a big gun and more than adequate for elk.
You lost your elk because of poor bullet placement, not because you had a 7mm.
The other posters have summed it up. Shoot more and enjoy your time on the range along with greater success in the field.

My 2 cents, for free
Zeke

ForkWest · Jul 7, 2015

BeanMan, you're not alone.

I worked all summer to save up and buy my first gun at 15yrs old. A 30.06 Ruger Mark 7. Other than a new scope, I haven't changed a thing on it and still hunt with it every year. I have full confidence in it, it shoots straight, gets the job done and its never let me down.

Defintely not the cool kid gun, but I don't care...and neither do all the animals its taken.

BeanMan · Jul 7, 2015

My first big game rifle is a old M77 tang safety in 30.06. I bought a Tikka on the 100 year anniversary of the cartridge and it's my primary rifle now. I like having my backup rifle in the same caliber.

joebobhunter4 · Jul 7, 2015

My first elk I ever killed was dropped in his tracks with my old .270 at 300 yards so a 300 wsm would definitely kill an elk. I like using Remington model 700 rifles and have always done well with them but am now recently starting to build my own gun.

elkchaserreturns · Jul 7, 2015

Hello colorfulife,
Sorry for the sarcasm earlier. I have also lost two elk to shots that, by all indications, felt perfect. I never did figure out what I did wrong other than I hadn't practiced very much with my rifle those years. There was only one person to blame. ME!
Next time you head out to do some practice shooting, bring a few 1 gallon milk jugs filled with water. Set them out at various distances between 100 and 300 yards (or whatever distance you think you can hit em at!). Shoot at them with your 7MM SAUM from any field position you feel comfortable with EXCEPT THE SHOOTING BENCH! I like to use 1 gallon milk jugs because they are only a little smaller than the kill zone on an elk.
It's fun!
It simulates actual field shooting positions!
There is no mistaking if you hit or miss!
It is challenging!
And, it is a great way to figure out your shooting form.
When you can hit those jugs on a regular basis, you will have a lot more confidence in your rifle, and yourself.
Give it a try and let us know what you think after.

Elkchaser

Zeke · Jul 7, 2015

And pick up all your bullshit garbage when you're done!
(I'm sure everyone on MM does)

Shooters have a junkie reputation because far too many are trashy arsehole!

Zeke

elkchaserreturns · Jul 7, 2015

Hello Zeke!
Your welcome to come & shoot with us anytime! Oh! By the way! If you forget to bring trash bags, no worries, I always bring plenty! And we always bring home more "trash" than we brought out there!
Thanks for the reminder!

Elkchaser

springvilleshooter · Jul 7, 2015

Most people don't shoot 300 Magnums worth a crap. I'm sure 440 is a big tough guy dead-eye but he is the exception. I'd much rather see a guy get really comfortable with an adequate rifle that they can handle......like a 270,280, 308, 7MM SAUM, etc than to get some lightweight super hammer that makes them quiver and flinch like a dog shitting peach pits. I went through a huge magnum phase in my 20's, thank goodness I'm over it. I shoot much better now and kill surgically with the likes of a 25-06 most of the time and a 280 AI if I'm after really big stuff. One thing all my "BB guns" have in common is that they have never been outshot or out killed by any 300 or 338 magnum. I just spanked a cocky guy with some monster 338 Lapua wildcat at the range the other day with my wimpy little 280 AI. After he scoffed at my rig, I shot a nice little 10" 3 shot smack in the middle of his 36" plate at 1000 yards. He proceeded to miss 2 out of 5 shots. I suspect that this is the case with most who count on big power to do the killing.

If you must have a 300 Mag, I have a really sweet 300 Win that I would gladly trade you for that SAUM. Weatherby Vanguard stainless. Custom accurized laminate stock, Timney trigger, quality rings and bases. Shoots damn good if you can hold onto it. ---------SS

Zeke · Jul 8, 2015

>Hello Zeke!
>Your welcome to come & shoot
>with us anytime! Oh! By
>the way! If you forget
>to bring trash bags, no
>worries, I always bring plenty!
>And we always bring home
>more "trash" than we brought
>out there!
>Thanks for the reminder!
>
>Elkchaser

Elkchaser,
That was just me venting and NOT aimed at anyone here on MM. I really do believe that most guys on here are way way beyond the average slob.
I shoot often on a private range and guys sneak in and shoot all the time. No one cares unless they leave their junk, which happens all too often.
When we go to the desert to LR bomb the paper, we always have sacks and boxes so we can clean-up behind the pigs!
I'm sure you know what I'm talking about since it sounds like you go prepared to do the same thing as we do.
Thanks for your input.
Zeke

ElevenBravo · Jul 15, 2015

Short version: Go to the range, try some different ammunition, work on your marksmanship and change a couple of variables (one at a time) until you're absolutely certain that there is something wrong with the gun, which is going to be unlikely. Sakos are nice, but a little pricey.

Long version
My rule #1 for hunting and gunfighting is "Bring enough gun".

7mm SAUM is more than enough gun. So before you go dropping money on a new rifle, let's examine a few things:

Killing an animal comes down to 2 things: accurate shot placement- getting the bullet where it needs to be to produce a lethal wound, and terminal ballistics of your bullet- what does the bullet do to the target once you get it where it needs to be.

Your SAUM may be too much gun, depending on what kind of ammo you're shooting and the distance to your target animal- you may not be getting good terminal performance due to the bullet not having enough time to expand in the animal to produce a lethal wound. If you handload, you may want to look at working up a reduced charge load. When I did my black bear loads for my 300 WSM, I chose a 220gr Nosler Partition and dialed back on the propellant. I wanted to make sure that the bullet had a lot of time to expand while in the bear due to the relative short range that I expected to be taking a shot at.

What kind of bullet are you using? One thing I've found is that ballistic tip bullet such as the Hornady SST can explode on contact at high velocities, and that SAUM is playing right around where this can happen. I don't do ballistic tips out of magnums because of this.

A good well-constructed bullet such as Nosler Accubond or Barnes TSX will be able to retain integrity as it penetrates through shoulder and ribs while traveling at 3000+ fps. Is the bullet heavy enough for an animal the size of an elk to generate a lethal amount of hydrostatic shock?

Are you using factory ammunition or handloads? How well does this ammunition shoot well in your rifle? Do you regularly practice at distances that are equal to the distances you shoot at your quarry? I'm a bit of an ammo snob, but most shooters will tell you that factory ammunition tends to shoot OK, but will rarely if ever outshoot ammunition that is tuned for the gun that is firing it. Is your ammunition shooting consistently through all distances and temperatures?

How's your marksmanship? It sounds like you're a good shot as you've taken antelope and deer. The anatomical differences aren't that big, but it may be that you're not hitting elk in the right spot. Does the recoil bother you? I've had a couple of Remingtons that did not shoot well, but through testing I was able to confirm that it was indeed the rifles and not me or the ammunition that was the problem. With today's materials and manufacturing, even low end rifles should be able to shoot sub-MOA with good ammunition. Higher quality rifles should be able to cloverloaf or keyhole.

For what it's worth, Sako makes excellent highly accurate rifles. I shoot a Tikka T3 in 300 WSM and I will be extremely sad when I burn that barrel out. If you decide to spend the money on one, you won't be disappointed.

cbeard · Jul 15, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jul-15-15 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]If you lost two elk with a 7mm SAUM I can assure you the caliber was not the problem.

That said, the .300 WSM is a fine elk caliber. I have one and a .300 WM also. Great rifles. I prefer the .30 caliber bullet for elk and do not find recoil excessive in either caliber.

But any rifle from .270 Win on up will work fine for elk with proper shot placement.

And all this talk about 500-1000 yard shots at game animals gives me the vapors. So I have a hard time responding rationally to it, except to say getting as close as possible to the quarry should be the goal of hunting.

REDDOG · Jul 19, 2015

A TI 7 SAUM? please sell me that rifle, you really need a 300 for elk..

shortmag · Aug 4, 2015

If you decide to go 300 WSM it is excellent elk medicine. Use a well constructed bullet like a 180 grain Nosler partition and know your gun and your capabilities and the elk will die.