Managing For Mature Bucks Or More Opportunity

slamdunk

slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
10,389
"The number of bucks is a measure of whether a herd is managed for abundant hunting opportunity or mature bucks. In most jurisdictions, buck numbers are evaluated annually and expressed as the number of bucks per does.
Areas managed for opportunity generally have easily obtained licenses and management goals that allow for lower buck to doe ratios, generally younger aged bucks, and higher hunter densities.
Conversely, when areas are managed for mature bucks, hunting opportunities must be significantly reduced to meet goals of more, older bucks, higher buck to doe ratios, higher harvest success rates and fewer hunters in the field."

So having stated those facts, aside from having our "Premium Units" such as Henry Mountains and Paunsagunt, make some units (remote rural areas) more for a mature buck harvest opportunities and others (urban areas) more for the meat hunter type of hunters.

Also, on the mature buck managed units, "traditional primitive weapons only" and the other units the archery and muzzleloaders can be "current technology".

No tag cuts, no antler point restrictions, opportunity for all.
We apply for the type of units we desire as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th choices in both categories respectively.
Anything left over goes OTC.
 
Hey PUNK!

We need some Major F'N Changes!

We need some Bucks Left come Rut time with some Genetics and some Age to them!

Me & Jr spent last Sunday in the Book Cliffs!

Yes the Book Cliffs is an LE Deer Unit!

What a GAWD DAMNED Disgrace!

The Poorest F'N Management I Think I've seen!

But they're Quick to tell Me I'm Not a Biologist!

They're Right!

And I don't Think you have to be one to Figure this Ssshhhiiitt out!

Perty Sad when You can See/Count More F'N Wild Horses than You can Deer!

Give Em Hell PUNK!

You Know I'm on your Side!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
They give a gazillion tags on the Books for all three seasons, it's a joke.

Last year when we came out there to hunt LE elk, we saw very few deer at all, yet the habitat looked to be in excellent condition and man made guzzlers all over the place.
There should have been deer everywhere.

Last time I was out there in about 2005, there were ridiculous amounts of deer.
Times have definitely changed, but why??
 
>They give a gazillion tags on
>the Books for all three
>seasons, it's a joke.
>
>Last year when we came out
>there to hunt LE elk,
>we saw very few deer
>at all, yet the habitat
>looked to be in excellent
>condition and man made guzzlers
>all over the place.
>There should have been deer everywhere.
>
>
>Last time I was out there
>in about 2005, there were
>ridiculous amounts of deer.
>Times have definitely changed, but why??
>

Over Hunting the Herd PUNK!

AKA Too many Tags!

The Elk Herd out there is F'D Up as well!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
We can do it ourselves. Who needs the DNR to do it for us. Police ourself. Just stop shooting the 150 and 160 class bucks and let them grow up. I know it's a little different for a new hunter or a youth. But if we let them grow we can shoot the quality bucks we want. I guess we can make primitive hunting areas or rope off a area like Antelope island. But I think we can show some self control and control ourselves.
 
>We can do it ourselves. Who
>needs the DNR to do
>it for us. Police ourself.
> Just stop shooting the
>150 and 160 class bucks
>and let them grow up.
>I know it's a little
>different for a new hunter
>or a youth. But if
>we let them grow we
>can shoot the quality bucks
>we want. I guess we
>can make primitive hunting areas
>or rope off a area
>like Antelope island. But I
>think we can show some
>self control and control ourselves.
>

Unfortunately Bigjohn, there's not enough people who think this way.
 
I Hate to Say it BIGJOHN!

But We are Outnumbered Big Time!

We need Hunting of all Types I Guess!

But SWEET GEEZUS lets have some Quality Hunting too!

Did You hear what I Just Said UDWR?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
It would be a lot easier for people to hold out for a bigger buck if there was an honest chance of seeing one, but holding out for what's not there ain?t ganns happen. When a true 160? is the realistic higher end those bucks are going to get shot. Sure there is a very small percentage of better bucks around, but not many. When you scout all summer and find 1 deer over 180? and he gets shot, season over. Can?t hold out for what isn't there. Take Colorado for example, most unit 30/100 buck to doe ratio, also most units have multiple 180? deer. Hunters know this and know that there is at least a chance at getting a crack at one. I've hunted Colorado a fair amount, and very few people settle on a deer that's not at least 3 years old. Lots of 140? bucks walk right through the season without most hunters even giving them a look, because they know they likely have a chance for better. Utah on the other hand, seems like anything you can put horns on the lead is flying. So yes I think the DWR needs to step in and help get us to the point where people feel like there is a chance for better bucks. Higher buck to doe ratios would be a start. Lots of folks to please, but I would for one would be all in favor of sitting out a few years between Utah hunts for a higher number of mature deer in the state. In all honesty I don't get very excited about deer hunting in Utah. Lots better places to spend my time and money.
 
>It would be a lot easier
>for people to hold out
>for a bigger buck if
>there was an honest chance
>of seeing one, but holding
>out for what's not there
>ain?t ganns happen. When a
>true 160? is the realistic
>higher end those bucks are
>going to get shot. Sure
>there is a very small
>percentage of better bucks around,
>but not many. When you
>scout all summer and find
>1 deer over 180? and
>he gets shot, season over.
>Can?t hold out for what
>isn't there. Take Colorado for
>example, most unit 30/100 buck
>to doe ratio, also most
>units have multiple 180? deer.
>Hunters know this and know
>that there is at least
>a chance at getting a
>crack at one. I've hunted
>Colorado a fair amount, and
>very few people settle on
>a deer that's not at
>least 3 years old. Lots
>of 140? bucks walk right
>through the season without most
>hunters even giving them a
>look, because they know they
>likely have a chance for
>better. Utah on the other
>hand, seems like anything you
>can put horns on the
>lead is flying. So yes
>I think the DWR needs
>to step in and help
>get us to the point
>where people feel like there
>is a chance for better
>bucks. Higher buck to doe
>ratios would be a start.
>Lots of folks to please,
>but I would for one
>would be all in favor
>of sitting out a few
>years between Utah hunts for
>a higher number of mature
>deer in the state. In
>all honesty I don't get
>very excited about deer hunting
>in Utah. Lots better places
>to spend my time and
>money.

Bingo!
Full throttle gets it.
 
Some good points have been brought up and there are lots of problems that are difficult to resolve because not everyone has the same expectation from their hunting season.

I have primarily bow hunted the Pahvant and spent six years there as a dedicated hunter. That mountain has really suffered as far as deer numbers. Over the last decade the change has been really dramatic actually.

When they went to the smaller units it was not a unit you could draw every year and at that point people really started to settle for any buck they could find. It was hard to let a buck go when you knew you wouldn't get to hunt it the next year.

It is very, very hard to find a trophy buck there now. They used to be pretty abundant for a general unit.
 
>Some good points have been brought
>up and there are lots
>of problems that are difficult
>to resolve because not everyone
>has the same expectation from
>their hunting season.
>
>I have primarily bow hunted the
>Pahvant and spent six years
>there as a dedicated hunter.
>That mountain has really suffered
>as far as deer numbers.
>Over the last decade the
>change has been really dramatic
>actually.
>
>When they went to the smaller
>units it was not a
>unit you could draw every
>year and at that point
>people really started to settle
>for any buck they could
>find. It was hard to
>let a buck go when
>you knew you wouldn't get
>to hunt it the next
>year.
>
>It is very, very hard to
>find a trophy buck there
>now. They used to be
>pretty abundant for a general
>unit.

I totally agree!
I muzzy hunted the Pahvant in 2015 and was totally shocked at the LACK of deer for how excellent the habitat was. Up until this year hunting the Beaver unit, the Pahvant was the worst I had seen.
 
I Agree with the last few Posts!

When Hunters/TARDS don't Draw a General Tag but every 2-4 years they go with the Attitude of:"I'm Killing Something"!

And one thing I still Hear that just Irritates the HELL clear out of me is when some TARD Sporting a 150,000.00 worth of Rig says:"Well I needed the Meat"!

JUDAS!!!

Or:

"I Filled My Tag"!

For No more than BRAGGING Rights!

There's many Problems with the Utah Deer Herd!

Until We get the DWR to Quit Killing them for just the Almighty Dollar with nothing else in order We won't see it get anything but worse by the year!

I Suppose when LE Units have nothing left more than two year old Bucks Hunters will keep shooting them little Bastards just like they did this year!

On Average with a hand full of exceptions the little Bucks taken in the Book Cliffs was a Total Ass Joke!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>"The number of bucks is a
>measure of whether a herd
>is managed for abundant hunting
>opportunity or mature bucks. In
>most jurisdictions, buck numbers are
>evaluated annually and expressed as
>the number of bucks per
>does.
>Areas managed for opportunity generally have
>easily obtained licenses and management
>goals that allow for lower
>buck to doe ratios, generally
>younger aged bucks, and higher
>hunter densities.
>Conversely, when areas are managed for
>mature bucks, hunting opportunities must
>be significantly reduced to meet
>goals of more, older bucks,
>higher buck to doe ratios,
>higher harvest success rates and
>fewer hunters in the field."
>
>
>So having stated those facts, aside
>from having our "Premium Units"
>such as Henry Mountains and
>Paunsagunt, make some units (remote
>rural areas) more for a
>mature buck harvest opportunities and
>others (urban areas) more for
>the meat hunter type of
>hunters.
>
>Also, on the mature buck managed
>units, "traditional primitive weapons only"
>and the other units the
>archery and muzzleloaders can be
>"current technology".
>
>No tag cuts, no antler point
>restrictions, opportunity for all.
>We apply for the type of
>units we desire as 1st,
>2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th
> choices in both categories
>respectively.
>Anything left over goes OTC.

So, let me see if I have this straight! If I choose to hunt deer with my compound bow more often than every 5 years, I'll hafta drive 200 miles from Enoch to Utah County (at least) in order to allow you to hunt a trophy every 5 or 10 years. Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And you're going to accomplish all that without cutting tags?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]
>So, let me see if I
>have this straight! If I
>choose to hunt deer with
>my compound bow more often
>than every 5 years, I'll
>hafta drive 200 miles from
>Enoch to Utah County (at
>least) in order to allow
>you to hunt a trophy
>every 5 or 10 years.
>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>you're going to accomplish all
>that without cutting tags?


Don't get so ruffled up EFA, obviously this is hypothetical only and open to alternative input.
Let's try positive input and ideas instead of a sledgehammer.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>AT 03:33?PM (MST)
>
>
>>So, let me see if I
>>have this straight! If I
>>choose to hunt deer with
>>my compound bow more often
>>than every 5 years, I'll
>>hafta drive 200 miles from
>>Enoch to Utah County (at
>>least) in order to allow
>>you to hunt a trophy
>>every 5 or 10 years.
>>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>>you're going to accomplish all
>>that without cutting tags?
>
>
>Don't get so ruffled up EFA,
>obviously this is hypothetical only
>and open to alternative input.
>
>Let's try positive input and ideas
>instead of a sledgehammer.

Admittedly, it's kinda hard to be positive when these kinds of threads turn so one-sided and everyone who doesn't care about inches is a 'TARD and everything is considered "F'D" up or a joke including the current mule deer management plan and the DWR.

How's this for positive input. At the Southern RAC meeting I proposed that we add some Extended Archery Areas to areas where we currently have antlerless deer and elk hunts and/or depredation hunts. I only had 3 minutes, so I couldn't flesh out my proposal, but we could make them antlerless only with timing and boundaries that would be the most effective to solve the problem. Or maybe we could even have antlerless only archery hunts/permits in the antlerless draw. That would add opportunity and wouldn't impact the buck/bull tags.
 
Lots of good ideas, no changes will come though, unless the DWR can find funds from else where besides auctions and license fee's.

Get that figured out and you can watch it happen !
 
>>"The number of bucks is a
>>measure of whether a herd
>>is managed for abundant hunting
>>opportunity or mature bucks. In
>>most jurisdictions, buck numbers are
>>evaluated annually and expressed as
>>the number of bucks per
>>does.
>>Areas managed for opportunity generally have
>>easily obtained licenses and management
>>goals that allow for lower
>>buck to doe ratios, generally
>>younger aged bucks, and higher
>>hunter densities.
>>Conversely, when areas are managed for
>>mature bucks, hunting opportunities must
>>be significantly reduced to meet
>>goals of more, older bucks,
>>higher buck to doe ratios,
>>higher harvest success rates and
>>fewer hunters in the field."
>>
>>
>>So having stated those facts, aside
>>from having our "Premium Units"
>>such as Henry Mountains and
>>Paunsagunt, make some units (remote
>>rural areas) more for a
>>mature buck harvest opportunities and
>>others (urban areas) more for
>>the meat hunter type of
>>hunters.
>>
>>Also, on the mature buck managed
>>units, "traditional primitive weapons only"
>>and the other units the
>>archery and muzzleloaders can be
>>"current technology".
>>
>>No tag cuts, no antler point
>>restrictions, opportunity for all.
>>We apply for the type of
>>units we desire as 1st,
>>2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th
>> choices in both categories
>>respectively.
>>Anything left over goes OTC.
>
>So, let me see if I
>have this straight! If I
>choose to hunt deer with
>my compound bow more often
>than every 5 years, I'll
>hafta drive 200 miles from
>Enoch to Utah County (at
>least) in order to allow
>you to hunt a trophy
>every 5 or 10 years.
>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>you're going to accomplish all
>that without cutting tags?

Hey efa!

If Current Management carries on like it has forever!

You'll be worried more than Tags being cut!

One of these Days you're gonna Wake Up & Realize the Deer & Elk Management of this State is F'D Up!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>
>How's this for positive input. At
>the Southern RAC meeting I
>proposed that we add some
>Extended Archery Areas to areas
>where we currently have antlerless
>deer and elk hunts and/or
>depredation hunts. I only had
>3 minutes, so I couldn't
>flesh out my proposal, but
>we could make them antlerless
>only with timing and boundaries
>that would be the most
>effective to solve the problem.
>Or maybe we could even
>have antlerless only archery hunts/permits
>in the antlerless draw. That
>would add opportunity and wouldn't
>impact the buck/bull tags.
>

I like the sounds of those, and obviously you'd know more about your areas than we do.
Those higher density human population areas around Cedar could definitely use "extended archery".
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>>AT 03:33?PM (MST)
>>
>>
>>>So, let me see if I
>>>have this straight! If I
>>>choose to hunt deer with
>>>my compound bow more often
>>>than every 5 years, I'll
>>>hafta drive 200 miles from
>>>Enoch to Utah County (at
>>>least) in order to allow
>>>you to hunt a trophy
>>>every 5 or 10 years.
>>>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>>>you're going to accomplish all
>>>that without cutting tags?
>>
>>
>>Don't get so ruffled up EFA,
>>obviously this is hypothetical only
>>and open to alternative input.
>>
>>Let's try positive input and ideas
>>instead of a sledgehammer.
>
>Admittedly, it's kinda hard to be
>positive when these kinds of
>threads turn so one-sided and
>everyone who doesn't care about
>inches is a 'TARD and
>everything is considered "F'D" up
>or a joke including the
>current mule deer management plan
>and the DWR.
>
>How's this for positive input. At
>the Southern RAC meeting I
>proposed that we add some
>Extended Archery Areas to areas
>where we currently have antlerless
>deer and elk hunts and/or
>depredation hunts. I only had
>3 minutes, so I couldn't
>flesh out my proposal, but
>we could make them antlerless
>only with timing and boundaries
>that would be the most
>effective to solve the problem.
>Or maybe we could even
>have antlerless only archery hunts/permits
>in the antlerless draw. That
>would add opportunity and wouldn't
>impact the buck/bull tags.
>
>
>

Another F'N Joke!

Giving a Small number of people 3 Minutes only!

WAFJ!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>>>AT 03:33?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>
>>>>So, let me see if I
>>>>have this straight! If I
>>>>choose to hunt deer with
>>>>my compound bow more often
>>>>than every 5 years, I'll
>>>>hafta drive 200 miles from
>>>>Enoch to Utah County (at
>>>>least) in order to allow
>>>>you to hunt a trophy
>>>>every 5 or 10 years.
>>>>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>>>>you're going to accomplish all
>>>>that without cutting tags?
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't get so ruffled up EFA,
>>>obviously this is hypothetical only
>>>and open to alternative input.
>>>
>>>Let's try positive input and ideas
>>>instead of a sledgehammer.
>>
>>Admittedly, it's kinda hard to be
>>positive when these kinds of
>>threads turn so one-sided and
>>everyone who doesn't care about
>>inches is a 'TARD and
>>everything is considered "F'D" up
>>or a joke including the
>>current mule deer management plan
>>and the DWR.
>>
>>How's this for positive input. At
>>the Southern RAC meeting I
>>proposed that we add some
>>Extended Archery Areas to areas
>>where we currently have antlerless
>>deer and elk hunts and/or
>>depredation hunts. I only had
>>3 minutes, so I couldn't
>>flesh out my proposal, but
>>we could make them antlerless
>>only with timing and boundaries
>>that would be the most
>>effective to solve the problem.
>>Or maybe we could even
>>have antlerless only archery hunts/permits
>>in the antlerless draw. That
>>would add opportunity and wouldn't
>>impact the buck/bull tags.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Another F'N Joke!
>
>Giving a Small number of people
>3 Minutes only!
>
>WAFJ!


Actually, that's changed for the better. Now EVERYBODY gets only 3 minutes. Yes, even SFW (And MDF, RMEF, DU, etc.) But, of course, there are more individuals who are members of SFW and/or who side with SFW and they EACH get 3 minutes, but they can no longer claim to speak for SFW or it's Chapters. I've even heard the chairs tell the audience not to repeat what's already been said by the representative. They can say they support it, but not rehash it. And if too many of them begin coming up just to support it, the chair can shut that scenario down too.
 
>>>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>>>>AT 03:33?PM (MST)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So, let me see if I
>>>>>have this straight! If I
>>>>>choose to hunt deer with
>>>>>my compound bow more often
>>>>>than every 5 years, I'll
>>>>>hafta drive 200 miles from
>>>>>Enoch to Utah County (at
>>>>>least) in order to allow
>>>>>you to hunt a trophy
>>>>>every 5 or 10 years.
>>>>>Yeh, that sounds wonderful! And
>>>>>you're going to accomplish all
>>>>>that without cutting tags?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't get so ruffled up EFA,
>>>>obviously this is hypothetical only
>>>>and open to alternative input.
>>>>
>>>>Let's try positive input and ideas
>>>>instead of a sledgehammer.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, it's kinda hard to be
>>>positive when these kinds of
>>>threads turn so one-sided and
>>>everyone who doesn't care about
>>>inches is a 'TARD and
>>>everything is considered "F'D" up
>>>or a joke including the
>>>current mule deer management plan
>>>and the DWR.
>>>
>>>How's this for positive input. At
>>>the Southern RAC meeting I
>>>proposed that we add some
>>>Extended Archery Areas to areas
>>>where we currently have antlerless
>>>deer and elk hunts and/or
>>>depredation hunts. I only had
>>>3 minutes, so I couldn't
>>>flesh out my proposal, but
>>>we could make them antlerless
>>>only with timing and boundaries
>>>that would be the most
>>>effective to solve the problem.
>>>Or maybe we could even
>>>have antlerless only archery hunts/permits
>>>in the antlerless draw. That
>>>would add opportunity and wouldn't
>>>impact the buck/bull tags.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Another F'N Joke!
>>
>>Giving a Small number of people
>>3 Minutes only!
>>
>>WAFJ!
>
>
>Actually, that's changed for the better.
>Now EVERYBODY gets only 3
>minutes. Yes, even SFW (And
>MDF, RMEF, DU, etc.) But,
>of course, there are more
>individuals who are members of
>SFW and/or who side with
>SFW and they EACH get
>3 minutes, but they can
>no longer claim to speak
>for SFW or it's Chapters.
>I've even heard the chairs
>tell the audience not to
>repeat what's already been said
>by the representative. They can
>say they support it, but
>not rehash it. And if
>too many of them begin
>coming up just to support
>it, the chair can shut
>that scenario down too.

AKA:

They Can Do as they F'N Eh Well Please!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 08:59?PM (MST)

As long as Utah is managed by cattlemen, houndsman, SFW, MDF and every other special interest group in the state it will continue to always be about money and what is best for their own special interests. I don't think it is as bad as some of you think though. I went for a ride tonight and saw several mature bucks running does. Had a great hunt on a leftover deer tag this past fall, killed a nice bull on a general archery tag, and had a lot of fun. I was nowhere near a road or anywhere a side by side could get. They are there if you are willing to put in the work, I'm glad most won't put in the work. Our neighbors to the north are doing it right if you want a model to follow. Wyoming is managed for opportunity with ample general areas and quality areas for those only worried about inches. They listen to their biologists, cut tags when and where needed, and actually manage their herds. Utah is ran by pimps and as long as the SFW model is in place with auction tags, raffle tags, expos and bogus dedicated hunter program all in the name of "conservation" nothing will improve I'm afraid. It will just become a bigger money game to play. Scared for my kids future in this state.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 09:40?PM (MST)

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>AT 09:03?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18
>AT 08:59?PM (MST)
>
>As long as Utah is managed
>by cattlemen, houndsman, SFW, MDF
>and every other special interest
>group in the state it
>will continue to always be
>about money and what is
>best for their own special
>interests. I don't think it
>is as bad as some
>of you think though. I
>went for a ride tonight
>and saw several mature bucks
>running does. Had a great
>hunt on a leftover deer
>tag this past fall, killed
>a nice bull on a
>general archery tag, and had
>a lot of fun. I
>was nowhere near a road
>or anywhere a side by
>side could get. They are
>there if you are willing
>to put in the work,
>I'm glad most won't put
>in the work. Our neighbors
>to the north are doing
>it right if you want
>a model to follow. Wyoming
>is managed for opportunity with
>ample general areas and quality
>areas for those only worried
>about inches. They listen to
>their biologists, cut tags when
>and where needed, and actually
>manage their herds. Utah is
>ran by pimps and as
>long as the SFW model
>is in place with auction
>tags, raffle tags, expos and
>bogus dedicated hunter program all
>in the name of "conservation"
>nothing will improve I'm afraid.
>It will just become a
>bigger money game to play.
>Scared for my kids future
>in this state.

You are spot on most points.

There are definitely some areas that are satisfactory, yes, of course there are, but other areas need tremendous help from somewhere.

But fyi....the MDF has nothing to do with state regulations like sfw does. We are a conservation group, not an activist and lobbyist group.

And i don't buy the stories about all the deer being abundant "away from the roads" and "if you get away from the roads you'll find plenty of good quality bucks".
Why was the area I hunt on the Beaver (Paiute trails all over it) full of healthy deer numbers just 4-5 years ago in 2013? There were long range rifles, inline muzzys, compound bows, trail cams and atv's clear back in those olden days weren't there?
 
I'd Also like to know what Damage Dedicated Hunters have done?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I won't lump MDF in I'll give you that one, but it is a slippery slope. Your best bucks on Beaver are being hunted right now Slam....historically the Parowan front and Beaver areas have crawled with Poaching issues. There was just a recent report of a 26" buck shot and left. How many times have you ever been checked by a game warden in Utah? I've been checked numerous times in other states. Utah doesn't patrol they wait until it happens then rely on the public to do the leg work. I'm not arguing I think things could be better, but nothing will change as long as we have all the hands in the pot. The big deer aren't abundant off the roads, but that's where the majority of them are. Still nice bucks on Beaver, well two less after this year....but that's another "story"
 
>I won't lump MDF in I'll
>give you that one, but
>it is a slippery slope.
>Your best bucks on Beaver
>are being hunted right now
>Slam....historically the Parowan front and
>Beaver areas have crawled with
>Poaching issues. There was just
>a recent report of a
>26" buck shot and left.
>How many times have you
>ever been checked by a
>game warden in Utah? I've
>been checked numerous times in
>other states. Utah doesn't patrol
>they wait until it happens
>then rely on the public
>to do the leg work.
>I'm not arguing I think
>things could be better, but
>nothing will change as long
>as we have all the
>hands in the pot. The
>big deer aren't abundant off
>the roads, but that's where
>the majority of them are.
>Still nice bucks on Beaver,
>well two less after this
>year....but that's another "story"

Hey Bo?

You got Pics?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Bessy they get in the way, just like the bitching you have been doing about the multi general elk tag. That statement you made goes against all the whining you've said about constant pressure. No other state has a dedicated hunter program, it is a joke. As far as damage Take a hike this spring all those deadheads you find aren't all lion kills. A few of them pisscutters are "damn he looked bigger before I pulled the trigger, can't waste one of my two buck tags on him...."
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-18 AT 10:13PM (MST)[p]Nope, so it never happened. I hope all of you go hunt somewhere else....? not my bucks, two of my cousins
 
I'd like to see a decent TARDville Buck!

Oh it Happened!

Tight Lipped Bastage!:D








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Haha have to be these days Bess, you know that! A good buck now days is worth more than my mortgage, I might sell you some GPS coordinates if the price is right though$$$
 
>Haha have to be these days
>Bess, you know that! A
>good buck now days is
>worth more than my mortgage,
>I might sell you some
>GPS coordinates if the price
>is right though$$$


Well!

You're gonna have to Give me some Coords!

Or I'm Taking You back in Where I Hunt so You can Show me the Gold!

I Know I'm a Blind Bastard!

But I can't Find them anymore!

And Yes I'm back in off the Roads!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Check your PM Bo!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
hey elk, I posted a video of just a few of the bucks I was seeing this year on two different general units but you guys just want to ignore those types of posts and never comment on them.

slam, I have several ideas on what needs to be done but it will take a lot of time and hard work. Most guys aren't willing to do it.
 
>slam, I have several ideas on
>what needs to be done
>but it will take a
>lot of time and hard
>work. Most guys aren't willing
>to do it.

Ridge, let's hear what you're thinking, I like some of these positive ideas. PM me if you'd like.

Bo.....you are right, I haven't been checked by an officer in well over 20 years. Even when I had my Paunsagunt tag two years ago, I never saw a single wildlife officer during my scouting trips during the muzzy hunt nor did I during 9 days of my rifle hunt.
I agree we need to do some self policing, but it appears we are doing 95% of it ourselves.
Back not too long ago when we saw an elk being shot on a deer hunt we knew it was poaching and we'd make a call, nowadays its just another "special tag".
 
>Hey efa!
>
>If Current Management carries on like
>it has forever!
>
>You'll be worried more than Tags
>being cut!
>
>One of these Days you're gonna
>Wake Up & Realize the
>Deer & Elk Management of
>this State is F'D Up!
>

Well, Bess, if that happens, then maybe I'll wake up and also realize that you didn't do anything but ##### and cuss about it. Unless, of course, you actually attend RAC and Open Houses and Wildlife Board meetings or petition to get on some committees or arrange an interview with the NW Region DWR Big Game Specialist and speak out with some of you ideas on how to solve the problems you're so concerned about. Or, for that matter, even post those ideas on the internet so some of us can carry the message for you.

In any case, I have to tell you that worrying about tag cuts or anything else related to hunting is already WAY down my list of priorities and if it ALL goes away, I'll do just fine! And so will you!

Now, here's another major change idea! How about managing deer and elk like we do pronghorn?
1- Everything Limited Entry
2- Only one tag per species per person per year regardless of source: public draw, CWMU purchase, Expo, auction, depredation, landowner.
3- A 2 year waiting period for buck/bull public draws
4- Additional Auction tags (5%?) to lower auction prices, but add additional funds to mandated projects.
5- No more special youth tags. Use the mentoring program to recruit them.
6- One point system with the lose of points if you draw any buck/bull tag.
7- Make every deer unit 25-30 buck to doe ratio and every elk unit older age class and manage the tags accordingly.

Everybody has a chance to hunt every year if they want, but nobody can stack that many tags and the bucks and bulls have a better chance to grow big antlers. There may have to be a few tweeks, but hopefully not many.
Comments?
 
>
>hey elk, I posted a video
>of just a few of
>the bucks I was seeing
>this year on two different
>general units but you guys
>just want to ignore those
>types of posts and never
>comment on them.

Did Not Ignore it!

You Videoed some Decent Bucks!

But let's be Truthful?

38"?

A 38" Buck would look like a 48" Buck to Most!




>
>slam, I have several ideas on
>what needs to be done
>but it will take a
>lot of time and hard
>work. Most guys aren't willing
>to do it.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>
>>Hey efa!
>>
>>If Current Management carries on like
>>it has forever!
>>
>>You'll be worried more than Tags
>>being cut!
>>
>>One of these Days you're gonna
>>Wake Up & Realize the
>>Deer & Elk Management of
>>this State is F'D Up!
>>
>
>Well, Bess, if that happens, then
>maybe I'll wake up and
>also realize that you didn't
>do anything but ##### and
>cuss about it. Unless, of
>course, you actually attend RAC
>and Open Houses and Wildlife
>Board meetings or petition to
>get on some committees or
>arrange an interview with the
>NW Region DWR Big Game
>Specialist and speak out with
>some of you ideas on
>how to solve the problems
>you're so concerned about. Or,
>for that matter, even post
>those ideas on the internet
>so some of us can
>carry the message for you.
>
>
>In any case, I have to
>tell you that worrying about
>tag cuts or anything else
>related to hunting is already
>WAY down my list of
>priorities and if it ALL
>goes away, I'll do just
>fine! And so will you!
>
>
>Now, here's another major change idea!
>How about managing deer and
>elk like we do pronghorn?
>
>1- Everything Limited Entry
>2- Only one tag per species
>per person per year regardless
>of source: public draw, CWMU
>purchase, Expo, auction, depredation, landowner.
>
>3- A 2 year waiting period
>for buck/bull public draws
>4- Additional Auction tags (5%?) to
>lower auction prices, but add
>additional funds to mandated projects.
>
>5- No more special youth tags.
>Use the mentoring program to
>recruit them.
>6- One point system with the
>lose of points if you
>draw any buck/bull tag.
>7- Make every deer unit 25-30
>buck to doe ratio and
>every elk unit older age
>class and manage the tags
>accordingly.
>
>Everybody has a chance to hunt
>every year if they want,
>but nobody can stack that
>many tags and the bucks
>and bulls have a better
>chance to grow big antlers.
>There may have to be
>a few tweeks, but hopefully
>not many.
>Comments?

I like 2 & 5, 7 could be done on more rural units, but I think the more urban areas need to harvest more deer, especially doe's and help the depredation and urban deer problems.

Speaking of urban deer issues, the division has already implemented major changes to the wasatch extended archery units effective in 2019 to go all across the wasatch into Utah County to hobble creek, included lake mountain above Saratoga springs and also the Herriman area near Kennecott.
 
Bess,
you need to get your head of the clouds and stop living in the past. We will never have the type of hunting that was seen in the 1960s and we will never have the amount of deer we had in the 1980s. Times have changed and it's about time to change with the times.
And yes, after seeing the field photos of that buck, there's no question in my mind that it went 38". When I saw it in mid July (which it was still grown) I figured it was a mid 30" buck at the time.
After seeing all the badmouthing comments from you over the years concerning people over judging their deer and elk. In IMHO, your not as good at guessing from a picture or video than you thing you are.


EFA hit the nail on the head with his comments about what needs to be done to get the attention of the RACs and Wildlife board and like I said before, it will take a lot of time and work to do that.
 
Slam,
about the Beaver unit. How are you going to explain to the wildlife board that it's as bad as you say it is, when the Biologist are saying it's already over populated according to the units objectives.
The buck/doe ratios are above the objectives.
Those 13,000 deer are somewhere on that unit, just not in the area you were looking.
Did you know that some specific areas within a mountain range, deer can catch a contagious virus and there can be a localized die off?
Just a thought.

If I was concerned about an area, I'd be reaching out to the professionals instead of some internet armchair Biologists.
 
>
>Slam,
>about the Beaver unit. How are
>you going to explain to
>the wildlife board that it's
>as bad as you say
>it is, when the Biologist
>are saying it's already over
>populated according to the units
>objectives.
>The buck/doe ratios are above the
>objectives.
>Those 13,000 deer are somewhere on
>that unit, just not in
>the area you were looking.
>
>Did you know that some specific
>areas within a mountain range,
>deer can catch a contagious
>virus and there can be
>a localized die off?
>Just a thought.
>
>If I was concerned about an
>area, I'd be reaching out
>to the professionals instead of
>some internet armchair Biologists.

The lack of deer were not just in the area I hunted, ridge.
I spent many scouting days prior to the hunt and covered all three layers of the mountain from above timberline to lowest desert and where i settled at mid mountain.
During my hunt, i still managed to once again go extremely high, then low to see if anything had improved.
In talking with other hunters at all areas, the outcome was the same.
Many of the hunters i spoke with were locals and others who have hunted that mountain their whole hunting lives and were disgusted on how it has turned out.
Apparently Monroe is in the same same boat.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-18 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]
You have the right to find out what their counts are this winter and find out how they are doing it. Who knows, maybe their counts will show what you were seeing and the biologist may already have a plan in the works. It wouldn't hurt to reach out to them with some of these types of questions.
 
So Ridge?

Which Buck in your Video Hit the 38" Mark?

I'm not Knocking any of your Bucks!

But Honestly,I Just didn't see a Buck that'd Make 38" Wide?

I Won't Argue with You When you say Mule Deer Hunting will never be like it was in the 60's!

But JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!

You're telling Me It couldn't be way better than it is now?

Alot of us don't have to wait for Counts!

Some Hunters have been in the Units enough to know kinda what things are looking like!

This Buck To Doe BS management is a JOKE!

We need Total Deer Numbers & if you wanna calculate the Buck to Doe Ratio Sobeit!

Biologists aren't some kind of Management God's!

They Proved a few years ago that what was reported by Bioligists was throwed out the Window on a few things so what kinda BS is that?

Some of You Guys Worship the DWR like it's GOSPEL!

Sorry for the Rant!

but I've Seen what this State is capable of Producing when it comes to Bucks & Bulls!

And I'm seeing what it's Producing in several Units today!

If You Haven't Seen it yourself You Don't get around the State too much!

There's some Units in Serious Trouble!

And I will also Tell you This:

If PUNK Tells Me Something I'm taking it to the Bank without the DWR having to Back it up!


















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-18 AT 03:37PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-18 AT 03:34?PM (MST)

Here it is again.

"Ill just go to Colorado or Idaho if I don't draw"

So YOU are gonna hunt deer yearly, you just want those without the means, time off, or kids to sit around for a few years so that WHEN you come back from Idaho or Colorado you have big deer.


Complication is done intentionally.


1 deer draw. You put in open unit, or LE.

You draw point ONLY for unit you put in for, LE or open. And limit points to a unit. Meaning you don't draw LE statewide point, you draw unit specific point. That part stops the hotspotting that goes on.
First year, you dedicate your points to unit you want, giving long term guys the chance to not be penalized, after that points are locked to that unit.

3 years not drawing tag or point in either LE or open, those points are surrendered. Basically forcing guys to choose, opportunity or trophy.

Let the trophy hunters who keep talking about "sitting out" put their money where their mouth is and possibly sit out a lot of years. Let the oppurtunits hunt more often if not yearly depending on draws.

Solves point creep. Solves the constant complaining.
Lets hunters make decisions about what they value, on their own, no mandated cuts.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hey Hoss!

You're Adding More Complications!:D

Just when I was gonna try HotSpotting.........................!

(((If Ridge Will Tell Me where the Hot Spot is?:D:D:D)))





I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> So Ridge?
>
>Which Buck in your Video Hit
>the 38" Mark?
>
>I'm not Knocking any of your
>Bucks!
>
>But Honestly,I Just didn't see a
>Buck that'd Make 38" Wide?
>
>
>I Won't Argue with You When
>you say Mule Deer Hunting
>will never be like it
>was in the 60's!
>
>But JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!
>
>You're telling Me It couldn't be
>way better than it is
>now?
>
>Alot of us don't have to
>wait for Counts!
>
>Some Hunters have been in the
>Units enough to know kinda
>what things are looking like!
>
>
>This Buck To Doe BS management
>is a JOKE!
>
>We need Total Deer Numbers &
>if you wanna calculate the
>Buck to Doe Ratio Sobeit!
>
>
>Biologists aren't some kind of Management
>God's!
>
>They Proved a few years ago
>that what was reported by
>Bioligists was throwed out the
>Window on a few things
>so what kinda BS is
>that?
>
>Some of You Guys Worship the
>DWR like it's GOSPEL!
>
>Sorry for the Rant!
>
>but I've Seen what this State
>is capable of Producing when
>it comes to Bucks &
>Bulls!
>
>And I'm seeing what it's Producing
>in several Units today!
>
>If You Haven't Seen it yourself
>You Don't get around the
>State too much!
>
>There's some Units in Serious Trouble!
>
>
>And I will also Tell you
>This:
>
>If PUNK Tells Me Something I'm
>taking it to the Bank
>without the DWR having to
>Back it up!
>

And some of you guys despise the DWR as if they were the Devil! They only wish they had as much power to manage wildlife and habitat as you give them credit/blame for having!

Even if some of the herds and units are as bad as you claim, shuffling a few buck and bull tags around didn't cause it and certainly won't cure it, especially since bucks and bulls don't have babies. So I suggest you look elsewhere for some of the causes and cures and find ways to help.
 
>Even if some of the herds
>and units are as bad
>as you claim, shuffling a
>few buck and bull tags
>around didn't cause it and
>certainly won't cure it, especially
>since bucks and bulls don't
>have babies. So I suggest
>you look elsewhere for some
>of the causes and cures
>and find ways to help.
>

Exactly what I have been saying and trying to imply in all for of my posts!!
Conservation people, conservation!!!
 
>> So Ridge?
>>
>>Which Buck in your Video Hit
>>the 38" Mark?
>>
>>I'm not Knocking any of your
>>Bucks!
>>
>>But Honestly,I Just didn't see a
>>Buck that'd Make 38" Wide?
>>
>>
>>I Won't Argue with You When
>>you say Mule Deer Hunting
>>will never be like it
>>was in the 60's!
>>
>>But JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!
>>
>>You're telling Me It couldn't be
>>way better than it is
>>now?
>>
>>Alot of us don't have to
>>wait for Counts!
>>
>>Some Hunters have been in the
>>Units enough to know kinda
>>what things are looking like!
>>
>>
>>This Buck To Doe BS management
>>is a JOKE!
>>
>>We need Total Deer Numbers &
>>if you wanna calculate the
>>Buck to Doe Ratio Sobeit!
>>
>>
>>Biologists aren't some kind of Management
>>God's!
>>
>>They Proved a few years ago
>>that what was reported by
>>Bioligists was throwed out the
>>Window on a few things
>>so what kinda BS is
>>that?
>>
>>Some of You Guys Worship the
>>DWR like it's GOSPEL!
>>
>>Sorry for the Rant!
>>
>>but I've Seen what this State
>>is capable of Producing when
>>it comes to Bucks &
>>Bulls!
>>
>>And I'm seeing what it's Producing
>>in several Units today!
>>
>>If You Haven't Seen it yourself
>>You Don't get around the
>>State too much!
>>
>>There's some Units in Serious Trouble!
>>
>>
>>And I will also Tell you
>>This:
>>
>>If PUNK Tells Me Something I'm
>>taking it to the Bank
>>without the DWR having to
>>Back it up!
>>
>
>And some of you guys despise
>the DWR as if they
>were the Devil! They only
>wish they had as much
>power to manage wildlife and
>habitat as you give them
>credit/blame for having!
>
>Even if some of the herds
>and units are as bad
>as you claim, shuffling a
>few buck and bull tags
>around didn't cause it and
>certainly won't cure it, especially
>since bucks and bulls don't
>have babies. So I suggest
>you look elsewhere for some
>of the causes and cures
>and find ways to help.
>

efa You Don't Have a F'N Clue to what I'm Talking about!

Take the Book Cliffs for one!

How Much F'N Time have you spent in that Unit?

Please do CHIME in with all your F'N Intelligence!

"Even if some of the herds and units are as bad as you claim"

Maybe You'd Best Make a Trip up here & I'll Show You First Hand!

Then We'll Compare what You & Me See to the Numbers the DWR Brain Wash You With!

You've got alot to F'N Learn but You'll Never get it!

If the DWR Says it,You're one of them that SUCK it to the Gills!

GEEZUS!!!













I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>> So Ridge?
>>>
>>>Which Buck in your Video Hit
>>>the 38" Mark?
>>>
>>>I'm not Knocking any of your
>>>Bucks!
>>>
>>>But Honestly,I Just didn't see a
>>>Buck that'd Make 38" Wide?
>>>
>>>
>>>I Won't Argue with You When
>>>you say Mule Deer Hunting
>>>will never be like it
>>>was in the 60's!
>>>
>>>But JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!
>>>
>>>You're telling Me It couldn't be
>>>way better than it is
>>>now?
>>>
>>>Alot of us don't have to
>>>wait for Counts!
>>>
>>>Some Hunters have been in the
>>>Units enough to know kinda
>>>what things are looking like!
>>>
>>>
>>>This Buck To Doe BS management
>>>is a JOKE!
>>>
>>>We need Total Deer Numbers &
>>>if you wanna calculate the
>>>Buck to Doe Ratio Sobeit!
>>>
>>>
>>>Biologists aren't some kind of Management
>>>God's!
>>>
>>>They Proved a few years ago
>>>that what was reported by
>>>Bioligists was throwed out the
>>>Window on a few things
>>>so what kinda BS is
>>>that?
>>>
>>>Some of You Guys Worship the
>>>DWR like it's GOSPEL!
>>>
>>>Sorry for the Rant!
>>>
>>>but I've Seen what this State
>>>is capable of Producing when
>>>it comes to Bucks &
>>>Bulls!
>>>
>>>And I'm seeing what it's Producing
>>>in several Units today!
>>>
>>>If You Haven't Seen it yourself
>>>You Don't get around the
>>>State too much!
>>>
>>>There's some Units in Serious Trouble!
>>>
>>>
>>>And I will also Tell you
>>>This:
>>>
>>>If PUNK Tells Me Something I'm
>>>taking it to the Bank
>>>without the DWR having to
>>>Back it up!
>>>
>>
>>And some of you guys despise
>>the DWR as if they
>>were the Devil! They only
>>wish they had as much
>>power to manage wildlife and
>>habitat as you give them
>>credit/blame for having!
>>
>>Even if some of the herds
>>and units are as bad
>>as you claim, shuffling a
>>few buck and bull tags
>>around didn't cause it and
>>certainly won't cure it, especially
>>since bucks and bulls don't
>>have babies. So I suggest
>>you look elsewhere for some
>>of the causes and cures
>>and find ways to help.
>>
>
>efa You Don't Have a
>Clue to what I'm Talking
>about!
>
>Take the Book Cliffs for one!
>
>
>How Much Time have you
>spent in that Unit?
>
>Please do CHIME in with all
>your Intelligence!
>
>"Even if some of the herds
>and units are as bad
>as you claim"
>
>Maybe You'd Best Make a Trip
>up here & I'll Show
>You First Hand!
>
>Then We'll Compare what You &
>Me See to the Numbers
>the DWR Brain Wash You
>With!
>
>You've got alot to Learn
>but You'll Never get it!
>
>
>If the DWR Says it,You're one
>of them that SUCK it
>to the Gills!
>
>GEEZUS!!!
>

I haven't spent any time on the Book Cliffs and don't intend to. It's a unit I'm not interested in hunting, so it would be a waste of time for me to check it out.

I'll just take YOUR word that it's bad with whatever definition you want to make it "bad". My question to you is; Besides trying to shut me up, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT?
 
>>>> So Ridge?
>>>>
>>>>Which Buck in your Video Hit
>>>>the 38" Mark?
>>>>
>>>>I'm not Knocking any of your
>>>>Bucks!
>>>>
>>>>But Honestly,I Just didn't see a
>>>>Buck that'd Make 38" Wide?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I Won't Argue with You When
>>>>you say Mule Deer Hunting
>>>>will never be like it
>>>>was in the 60's!
>>>>
>>>>But JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!
>>>>
>>>>You're telling Me It couldn't be
>>>>way better than it is
>>>>now?
>>>>
>>>>Alot of us don't have to
>>>>wait for Counts!
>>>>
>>>>Some Hunters have been in the
>>>>Units enough to know kinda
>>>>what things are looking like!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This Buck To Doe BS management
>>>>is a JOKE!
>>>>
>>>>We need Total Deer Numbers &
>>>>if you wanna calculate the
>>>>Buck to Doe Ratio Sobeit!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Biologists aren't some kind of Management
>>>>God's!
>>>>
>>>>They Proved a few years ago
>>>>that what was reported by
>>>>Bioligists was throwed out the
>>>>Window on a few things
>>>>so what kinda BS is
>>>>that?
>>>>
>>>>Some of You Guys Worship the
>>>>DWR like it's GOSPEL!
>>>>
>>>>Sorry for the Rant!
>>>>
>>>>but I've Seen what this State
>>>>is capable of Producing when
>>>>it comes to Bucks &
>>>>Bulls!
>>>>
>>>>And I'm seeing what it's Producing
>>>>in several Units today!
>>>>
>>>>If You Haven't Seen it yourself
>>>>You Don't get around the
>>>>State too much!
>>>>
>>>>There's some Units in Serious Trouble!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And I will also Tell you
>>>>This:
>>>>
>>>>If PUNK Tells Me Something I'm
>>>>taking it to the Bank
>>>>without the DWR having to
>>>>Back it up!
>>>>
>>>
>>>And some of you guys despise
>>>the DWR as if they
>>>were the Devil! They only
>>>wish they had as much
>>>power to manage wildlife and
>>>habitat as you give them
>>>credit/blame for having!
>>>
>>>Even if some of the herds
>>>and units are as bad
>>>as you claim, shuffling a
>>>few buck and bull tags
>>>around didn't cause it and
>>>certainly won't cure it, especially
>>>since bucks and bulls don't
>>>have babies. So I suggest
>>>you look elsewhere for some
>>>of the causes and cures
>>>and find ways to help.
>>>
>>
>>efa You Don't Have a
>>Clue to what I'm Talking
>>about!
>>
>>Take the Book Cliffs for one!
>>
>>
>>How Much Time have you
>>spent in that Unit?
>>
>>Please do CHIME in with all
>>your Intelligence!
>>
>>"Even if some of the herds
>>and units are as bad
>>as you claim"
>>
>>Maybe You'd Best Make a Trip
>>up here & I'll Show
>>You First Hand!
>>
>>Then We'll Compare what You &
>>Me See to the Numbers
>>the DWR Brain Wash You
>>With!
>>
>>You've got alot to Learn
>>but You'll Never get it!
>>
>>
>>If the DWR Says it,You're one
>>of them that SUCK it
>>to the Gills!
>>
>>GEEZUS!!!
>>
>
>I haven't spent any time on
>the Book Cliffs and don't
>intend to. It's a unit
>I'm not interested in hunting,
>so it would be a
>waste of time for me
>to check it out.
>
>I'll just take YOUR word that
>it's bad with whatever definition
>you want to make it
>"bad". My question to you
>is; Besides trying to shut
>me up, WHAT ARE YOU
>GONNA DO ABOUT IT?


Gonna Give them/DWR My Input that will probably mean absolutely F'N Nothing!

Basically You're Saying you Don't Give a Damn for anything but your Favorite Unit/Units!

I Just Spread a 200.00 Bale of Hay out for the Deer in My Field!

How Much Feed You set out or gonna set out efa?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>I haven't spent any time on
>>the Book Cliffs and don't
>>intend to. It's a unit
>>I'm not interested in hunting,
>>so it would be a
>>waste of time for me
>>to check it out.
>>
>>I'll just take YOUR word that
>>it's bad with whatever definition
>>you want to make it
>>"bad". My question to you
>>is; Besides trying to shut
>>me up, WHAT ARE YOU
>>GONNA DO ABOUT IT?
>
>
> Gonna Give them/DWR My Input
>that will probably mean absolutely Nothing!
>
>Basically You're Saying you Don't Give
>a Damn for anything but
>your Favorite Unit/Units!
>
>I Just Spread a 200.00 Bale
>of Hay out for the
>Deer in My Field!
>
>How Much Feed You set out
>or gonna set out efa?

First, I'm happy to see that you're gonna give them/DWR your input. I hope to be there when you do.

Second, No, I'm not "basically" saying I don't give a damn for anything but my favorite unit/units. Please don't put your spin on my posts. I said I didn't have time to check out YOUR favorite unit/units 'cause I was hoping I could rely on you for some accurate information when I support (or not) statewide proposals or unit proposals on units I'm not familiar with. I was on the Mule Deer Committee and supported the Plan in it's entirety which included the Book Cliffs split (North and South). I care about LE hunts and units as currently established per the Plan and wouldn't want them destroyed any more the General hunts/units. I'm not a trophy hunter per se, but I respect others who are and wish them well on their hunts. It just isn't my kind of hunt. I just hope for and expect the same courtesy.

Third, I'm not spreading any hay for deer here in Iron County. They are already using the hay fields more than the farmers want them to. And especially not alfalfa hay since it isn't very digestible and generally causes more harm than good. Deer, especially fawns, can starve on a full stomach when they eat it.

Fourth, I'll continue to attend RAC and WB meetings with questions and proposals and I plan on getting involved with the new Migratory program with capture and collaring procedures. Also with some of the classifications/counts. My time is quite limited with other more important things, but I'll work some of that in.
 
>
>>>I haven't spent any time on
>>>the Book Cliffs and don't
>>>intend to. It's a unit
>>>I'm not interested in hunting,
>>>so it would be a
>>>waste of time for me
>>>to check it out.
>>>
>>>I'll just take YOUR word that
>>>it's bad with whatever definition
>>>you want to make it
>>>"bad". My question to you
>>>is; Besides trying to shut
>>>me up, WHAT ARE YOU
>>>GONNA DO ABOUT IT?
>>
>>
>> Gonna Give them/DWR My Input
>>that will probably mean absolutely Nothing!
>>
>>Basically You're Saying you Don't Give
>>a Damn for anything but
>>your Favorite Unit/Units!
>>
>>I Just Spread a 200.00 Bale
>>of Hay out for the
>>Deer in My Field!
>>
>>How Much Feed You set out
>>or gonna set out efa?
>
>First, I'm happy to see that
>you're gonna give them/DWR your
>input. I hope to be
>there when you do.
>
>Second, No, I'm not "basically" saying
>I don't give a damn
>for anything but my favorite
>unit/units. Please don't put your
>spin on my posts. I
>said I didn't have time
>to check out YOUR favorite
>unit/units 'cause I was hoping
>I could rely on you

The Book Cliffs is not My Favorite Unit!

But it's Close enough I Do Spend Time out there!

I know what it's capable of Producing!

And I Know what's happened to it the Last several years!

More PISS POOR Management!

Both Elk & Deer!

You can Believe the DWR or you can make a Trip or two up here & see what's happened first hand!

We can see with your many Posts you don't care to Harvest anything but PISSCUTTERS!

Previous & Current management will do people like you well!

You Only care about filling your permit with a MOTL Buck!





>for some accurate information when
>I support (or not) statewide
>proposals or unit proposals on
>units I'm not familiar with.
>I was on the Mule
>Deer Committee and supported the
>Plan in it's entirety which
>included the Book Cliffs split
>(North and South). I care
>about LE hunts and units
>as currently established per the
>Plan and wouldn't want them
>destroyed any more the General
>hunts/units. I'm not a trophy
>hunter per se, but I
>respect others who are and
>wish them well on their
>hunts. It just isn't my
>kind of hunt. I just
>hope for and expect the
>same courtesy.
>
>Third, I'm not spreading any hay
>for deer here in Iron
>County. They are already using
>the hay fields more than
>the farmers want them to.
>And especially not alfalfa hay
>since it isn't very digestible
>and generally causes more harm
>than good. Deer, especially fawns,
>can starve on a full
>stomach when they eat it.
>
>
>Fourth, I'll continue to attend RAC
>and WB meetings with questions
>and proposals and I plan
>on getting involved with the
>new Migratory program with capture
>and collaring procedures. Also with
>some of the classifications/counts. My
>time is quite limited with
>other more important things, but
>I'll work some of that
>in.
>
>











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
One more thing efa!

The Hay I Rolled out was a mix of good stuff for Deer!

I never said it was straight alfalfa!

But Since they've BrainWashed you with their BS let's talk Alfalfa!

The Local Deer here in the Lower Elevations have Grown up on Alfalfa for many generations!

I'm yet to find one dead Deer or Fawn due to what you're claiming!

Yes I agree it 'Could' cause Deer problems!

There's alot of 'coulds' & 'what ifs' in this world!

Seen alot of dead Deer in my day!

Don't know that I've seen a dead one that I could say for sure died by eating alfalfa!

Not saying it doesn't Happen!

Let's just say this:

If & when they get Hungry enough they're not much different than a Human & when times get tough enough they'll eat whatever they can find to survive!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-18 AT 08:11PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2018/67240screenshot20181118190047instagram.jpg

Here's your healthy herd and buck to doe ratio.
Just a funny example, not a reality in every case.
 
They Ain't Eatin Alfalfa are they PUNK?







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>
>They Ain't Eatin Alfalfa are they
>PUNK?
>
Lol....there's not much in that field left.

I guess if that buck does all the beeeding, all his pups will only be 3 point bucks!?
 
Well, that was a waste of my time! But I'm glad to provide most you with some good laughs and the opportunity to pat each other on the back for your vast knowledge of wildlife management even though you never were specific as to the actual problems and solutions.

If this thread was meant to explore both sides of the issue, it missed its mark per the OP's reprimand to my one and only "negative" post, but a pass on Bess's 10 or 11 negative posts, most of them attacking the DWR and the OP's own 4 or 5 negative posts. And with the one-sided insults, false assumptions, false and missing information, personal attacks, innuendos, conspiracy theories and hypocritical statements.

However, I do take comfort in knowing none of you are in charge of managing our wildlife!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-18 AT 02:44PM (MST)[p]First off, I've seen some good suggestions from above posters. Although I don't agree with all of the ideas presented.
Secondly, it's hard to get change for the better when the DWR talks out both sides of their mouths.
Anyone who spends the hours listening to the wildlife board meetings can see on multiple occasions, that they make contradictory statements.
Do I believe they are the devil? No
Do I believe they want what is best for wildlife? Most of them...yes
Do they have all the answers? No
But I believe the first order of business to find a solution is being honest with yourself and the public.

It's hard to bring in the cash flow when the DWR has to cut tags or send a lot more unsuccessful emails which both equates to less revenue.
There are a lot of people with points applying for a lot of tags for a struggling limited resource.
It's a catch 22 where the DWR has tried to meet in the middle too many times and that isn't working.

I probably spent more time in the hills this year than any other.
From July to November and was disappointed with what I've seen.
No the sky is not falling but things aren't looking better either.





"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
>Well, that was a waste of
>my time! But I'm glad
>to provide most you with
>some good laughs and the
>opportunity to pat each other
>on the back for your
>vast knowledge of wildlife management
>even though you never were
>specific as to the actual
>problems and solutions.
>
>If this thread was meant to
>explore both sides of the
>issue, it missed its mark
>per the OP's reprimand to
>my one and only "negative"
>post, but a pass on
>Bess's 10 or 11 negative
>posts, most of them attacking
>the DWR and the OP's
>own 4 or 5 negative
>posts. And with the
>one-sided insults, false assumptions, false
>and missing information, personal attacks,
>innuendos, conspiracy theories and hypocritical
>statements.
>
>However, I do take comfort in
>knowing none of you are
>in charge of managing our
>wildlife!

Well efa!

It's Easy to see the DWR Has BrainWashed you with Their BS!

Everything they Do or Say is GOSPEL to You!

can't Believe anybody could be that Blind but C & D Clued Me in a bit on You!

You want to Shoot a PISSCUTTER or a Doe every year!

Ya there's them Kinds around!

But there's Different Kinds around as Well!

Take PUNK For example!

He Ain't gonna Shoot a F'N Doe!

He Ain't gonna Shoot a PISSCUTTER Neither!

He Would like to see a few Decent Bucks in Units that's proven to Grow them!

Yes We need a little bit of everything to somewhat Satisfy All Kinds in this Huntin World We Live in!

This State Will Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls Just about anywhere within the State when Properly Managed!

Why TF Would anybody in their Right F'N Mind want to destroy a Quality LE Unit just for a little extra Quick Cash efa?

Chalk Me up another Negative Post there efa!

JFP!!!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Well, that was a waste of
>my time! But I'm glad
>to provide most you with
>some good laughs and the
>opportunity to pat each other
>on the back for your
>vast knowledge of wildlife management
>even though you never were
>specific as to the actual
>problems and solutions.
>
>If this thread was meant to
>explore both sides of the
>issue, it missed its mark
>per the OP's reprimand to
>my one and only "negative"
>post, but a pass on
>Bess's 10 or 11 negative
>posts, most of them attacking
>the DWR and the OP's
>own 4 or 5 negative
>posts. And with the
>one-sided insults, false assumptions, false
>and missing information, personal attacks,
>innuendos, conspiracy theories and hypocritical
>statements.
>
>However, I do take comfort in
>knowing none of you are
>in charge of managing our
>wildlife!

So EFA, you've got the floor, lets hear something from your "vast knowledge of wildlife management" and where YOU want things to go?
 
>>Well, that was a waste of
>>my time! But I'm glad
>>to provide most you with
>>some good laughs and the
>>opportunity to pat each other
>>on the back for your
>>vast knowledge of wildlife management
>>even though you never were
>>specific as to the actual
>>problems and solutions.
>>
>>If this thread was meant to
>>explore both sides of the
>>issue, it missed its mark
>>per the OP's reprimand to
>>my one and only "negative"
>>post, but a pass on
>>Bess's 10 or 11 negative
>>posts, most of them attacking
>>the DWR and the OP's
>>own 4 or 5 negative
>>posts. And with the
>>one-sided insults, false assumptions, false
>>and missing information, personal attacks,
>>innuendos, conspiracy theories and hypocritical
>>statements.
>>
>>However, I do take comfort in
>>knowing none of you are
>>in charge of managing our
>>wildlife!
>
>So EFA, you've got the floor,
>lets hear something from your
>"vast knowledge of wildlife management"
>and where YOU want things
>to go?


Don't Worry PUNK!

You're in 2nd Place!:D:D:D








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
For those critical of my posts and question what I do and don't do to support my passion of Mule Deer and big game hunting in Utah besides purchasing an occasional tag, here is a list of projects the MDF (me) is working on with the Utah Division Of Wildlife in 2018/2019.

Late November / December

Note: We will be using 2 separate helicopter crews for the deer captures to ensure they are completed prior to Christmas. For the deer captures, on most units we will be catching and GPS collaring 40 deer (20 does, 20 fawns) as part of our survival and condition monitoring. On our Wildlife Migration Initiative projects, we will be capturing adult bucks and does to get a better understanding of movement patterns. All adults will be slung back for processing, and this will be a good opportunity to see and help process deer.

Crew 1

*Nov 27-Nov 29: South Slope deer capture

*Nov 30-Dec 2: North Slope/Chalk Creek/Kamas deer capture (105 adults)

*Dec 3-5: Cache deer capture

*Dec 6-8: Oquirrh-Stansbury deer capture

*Dec 9-10: Manti (SER) deer capture

*Dec 11-12: Book Cliffs (NER) deer capture

Dec 13-17: San Juan/Lockhart bighorn sheep disease testing

Dec 18-19: Zion bighorn sheep disease testing


Crew 2

*Nov 26-28: Pine Valley deer capture

*Nov 29-30: Paunsaugunt deer capture (45 adults)

*Dec 1-3: Monroe deer capture.

*Dec 4-7: San Juan deer capture

*Dec 8: Book Cliffs (SER) deer capture

*Dec 9-10: Wasatch-Manti (CR) deer capture

*Dec 11-13: Vernon deer capture (60 adults)

*Dec 14-15: Eagle Mountain deer capture (40 adults)

Dec 16: Southwest Desert pronghorn capture part 1 (30 adults)

*Dec 17-20: Zion deer capture (80 adults)

*Dec 21-22: Parowan deer capture (50 adults)

Dec 23:Southwest Desert pronghorn capture part 1 (20 adults)


January - Dates still to be determined


Northern Utah elk capture part 1. We will be capturing and collaring 40 elk in northern Utah, southeastern Idaho, and western Wyoming to better understand movements and interchange between states. No elk will be be slung back as part of this capture.



North Slope and Wasatch moose capture. We will be capturing and GPS collaring approximately 60 moose (40 cows, 20 calves) on the North Slope and Wasatch units to better understand survival, cause of mortality, and movement patterns. No moose will be be slung back as part of this capture.



Late February / March

Feb 19-20: SW Desert elk capture. We will be capturing and GPS collaring 40 elk on the SW Desert to better understand interchange with Nevada and use of habitat treatments. No elk be be slung back as part of this capture.



Feb 21-22: Henry Mountains bison capture. We will be capturing and GPS collaring 30 bison to better understand movements. No animals will be slung back for this capture project.



Feb 23-24: Book Cliffs bison capture. We will be capturing and GPS collaring 10-15 bison to better understand movements. No animals will be slung back for this capture project.



Feb 25-26: Book Cliffs elk capture. We will be capturing and GPS collaring 40 cow elk on the Book Cliffs to better understand movements and migration patterns. We will also be determining pregnancy and putting transmitters on pregnant cows to aid in capturing neonates this spring. No elk be be slung back as part of this capture.



*Feb 27-March 1: Book Cliffs deer capture. We will be catching approximately 40 doe deer to assess overall condition and rate of decline of fat reserves. We will also be determining pregnancy and putting transmitters on pregnant does to aid in capturing neonates this spring. All does will be slung back for processing, and this will be a good opportunity to see and help process deer.



*Mar 2-3: Cache deer capture. We will be catching approximately 40 doe deer to assess overall condition and rate of decline of fat reserves. We will also be determining pregnancy and putting transmitters on pregnant does to aid in capturing neonates this spring. All does will be slung back for processing, and this will be a good opportunity to see and help process deer.


These projects and my affiliation with the MDF is where I learn and gather my "vast knowledge of wildlife management".
 
It'll be Interesting to See what the the Adult Buck Count will be on the South Slope!

I'm a little Different than efa though!

I Don't consider a 3-1/2 Year old Buck Mature!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> It'll be Interesting to See
>what the the Adult Buck
>Count will be on the
>South Slope!
>
Lots of neat projects scheduled, should be some interesting finds!
 
Some Real/True Data is gonna Hurt!

I'm sure Glad to see somebody doing something!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Wow slam, you sure have a
>lot of time on your
>hands to do all those
>projects.

I wish I could.
The DWR has scheduled these projects along with help from the MDF.
I will do the ones I can.
 
>>Wow slam, you sure have a
>>lot of time on your
>>hands to do all those
>>projects.
>
>I wish I could.
>The DWR has scheduled these projects
>along with help from the
>MDF.
>I will do the ones I
>can.

And there are a lot more projects happening with the help of SFW, RMEF and Muley Fanatic Foundation.

For the record, I strongly oppose any new "primitive weapon" units. I hate that idea.
 
Muley not starting a fight but you were talking about all the lost bucks on the Vernon with primitive weapons, and then tell us we should have units that only allow it? I like the idea, but you might what to keep that vernon story quiet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-18 AT 03:52PM (MST)[p]It will be interesting to see the data on these collaring projects
 
>Ridge ,
>Why are you opposed to this?
>


1) more bucks will be wounded and possibly lost
2) why ask hunters to go out and buy another muzzleloader or bow and change what they already have.
A lot of guys don't have that kind of time or money.
 
The Only Thing With Collaring is:

We've Already Been Collaring Deer for many Years!

Are These Newer Collars telling us something NEW?

Or Something We already Know?

There Are Two Big Predators On Our Deer & Elk Herds!

HINT:

Them Top 2 Predators are NOT Lions & Bears!














I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Deerlove,
The success combined with lost animals would still be less than rifle hunts. Not to mention that i would like to see them go ?primitive?. I think this would reduce the distance being shot and thus reduce the wounding as well.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-18 AT 05:16PM (MST)[p]Ridge,
I addressed the wounding.
As far as buying new muzzy or bow...well if you don't want to do that then do not apply for those units. Easy solution.....really easy solution.
 
>Ridge,
>I addressed the wounding.
>As far as buying new muzzy
>or bow...well if you don't
>want to do that then
>do apply for those units.
> Easy solution.....really easy solution.
>
How about letting those guys that are having a hard time finding a big buck on these units go try an easier unit and let the guys that are doing just fine on these units keep doing their thing. Easier solution!
 
Ridge,
You?re missing the entire point. You?re not looking health of the herd. I get guys like you and you're focus is not the future of our herds. That has to be the focus.
 
This will PISS Some of these Local NO HUNTIN/NO SHOOTIN/WOUNDING SLOB'S OFF!

The Extended Archery Would Come to an End in 1.2!

We Try & Save some of them so they might make it past Age 3.3!

These JOKERS Have Wounded More Dink Bucks this year than ever!

How Many Bucks should a SLOB Hunter be legal to Wound/Kill in one Season?














I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Ridge,
>You?re missing the entire point. You?re
>not looking health of the
>herd. I get guys
>like you and you're focus
>is not the future of
>our herds. That has
>to be the focus.
Your missing your own point. Making it harder for a hunter to kill a buck has nothing to do with health of a herd.
Habitat has to do with the health of the herd. Right now, most units have over 18 bucks per 100 does. That's plenty to do the breading.


Focus needs to be on habitat, predators and more habitat.
 
Hey Ridge!

I'm not gettin in the Middle of You & Muley!

But within the 18 Bucks Per 100 Does We need something besides the Buck Fawns Breeding their Mothers!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Ridge,
More mature bucks in the herd overall is a healthier herd. 18-100 is not biologically sound in nature it's just a number put out there by the DWR who's focus is selling tags over having a healthy balanced herd.

Your first argument was it would cost hunters more, when that aguement quickly fell you immediately jump to the just hunt harder argument. That argument is not conservation based it's based on I find plenty of deer i want to hunt so don't change anything up. To many with that thought process while your resource dwindles and sets at a horribly low level. Many units have plenty of unutilized habitat, but still no deer. Funny that when i jump outside of Utah the biologist sing a different tune on what a Health buck doe ratio is and how many mature bucks should be doing the breeding.
Fawn survival is actually down on multiple units in the state. Yet no one wants to address that, including the DWR, and the sportsmen that support no change, keep the status quo voice.
 
And the Status F'N Quo SUCKS!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Bess,

BINGO!!!!!

Problem is once you try and make suggestions or changes people always balk. Blame SFW, don't want to make any sacrifices, just want to the way it was. Reminds me of bad employees, you know the ones.

We have to think outside the box and try some different approaches.
 
RE: Managing For Mature Bucks Or More Opportunity y

Well, it's real clear that you guys won't reason with anyone that disagrees with you. So I'll just sincerely wish you the best of luck and I'll plan on having the best hunting I've ever had in the next 7 - 10 years. Hey Bess, keep up the comments, I need a good daily laugh.
 
RE: Managing For Mature Bucks Or More Opportunity y

Problem is Ridge!

This Sshhiittt Ain't Funny!:D








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-18 AT 07:53PM (MST)[p]>Focus needs to be on habitat,
>predators and more habitat.

Getting a huge part of it, but there is so much more.
Improved habitat is a step yes, but it's only a step.

Predators need more attention yes, but we're already fighting houndsmen on lion populations and there's already bounties on coyotes and more coyote hunters in the field than ever before.

WE are the bigger "predator" problem, period!
 
RE: Managing For Mature Bucks Or More Opportunity y

> Problem is Ridge!
>
>This Sshhiittt Ain't Funny!:D
No, but you are a funny guy Robert. Thanks for the entertainment.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-18
>AT 07:53?PM (MST)
>
>>Focus needs to be on habitat,
>>predators and more habitat.
>
>Getting a huge part of it,
>but there is so much
>more.
>Improved habitat is a step yes,
>but it's only a step.
>
>
>Predators need more attention yes, but
>we're already fighting houndsmen on
>lion populations and there's already
>bounties on coyotes and more
>coyote hunters in the field
>than ever before.


>
PUNK is probably the only Hunter around that Answered My Question from Post # 71 and that will Admit,'We' are the bigger "predator" problem, period!

And Until TARDS see the Light & Admit it, Nothing will Really Change!

We know what this State can Produce when it comes to Bucks & Bulls and Managed Properly!

Why would you wanna F'K that up for a few extra Dollars & Then Have Nothing Quality left to Hunt?




>WE are the bigger "predator" problem,
>period!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Bess and Slam,
AGREED! Hunter are the one single factor that we can control. Predators, winter, drought, Highway mortally, none of it is as controllable as hunters. Especially when it comes to the bucks in the herd.

How can we call ourselves ?conservationists? when we issue more tags than we have of a resource. Not even a little bit more but close to 30% more. We have not control of the other and we are still putting that much pressure on the herd. It's completly irresponsible and selfish. Nothing to do with bigger bucks and easier hunts, it's just human greed. Helll it's pretty much the old childhood story of the Golden Goose, were just choking the shiit out of that gander instead of cutting it's head off.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-18 AT 08:44AM (MST)[p]>Bess and Slam,
>AGREED! Hunter are the one
>single factor that we can
>control. Predators, winter, drought, Highway
>mortally, none of it is
>as controllable as hunters.
>Especially when it comes to
>the bucks in the herd.
>
>
>How can we call ourselves ?conservationists?
>when we issue more tags
>than we have of a
>resource. Not even a
>little bit more but close
>to 30% more. We
>have not control of the
>other and we are still
>putting that much pressure on
>the herd. It's completly
>irresponsible and selfish. Nothing to
>do with bigger bucks and
>easier hunts, it's just human
>greed. Helll it's
>pretty much the old childhood
>story of the Golden Goose,
>were just choking the shiit
>out of that gander instead
>of cutting it's head off.
>

Bingo......WE (and our predatory behavior) are the only part of this equation that WE can change.
We have to limit and police ourselves if we want any real improvement overall.

We can all do more in helping habitat either through joining an organization that does projects (or just be a volunteer grunt) and go help in building guzzlers, reseeding and planting and wildlife transplants.
With all the fires we've had, I can assure you there will be hundreds of projects in the near future.

Things that are out of our control like Muley 73 pointed out, natural water resources, increasing human population and higher roadkills, poaching, just to name a few.
 
>Bess and Slam,
>AGREED! Hunter are the one
>single factor that we can
>control. Predators, winter, drought, Highway
>mortally, none of it is
>as controllable as hunters.
>Especially when it comes to
>the bucks in the herd.
>
>
>How can we call ourselves ?conservationists?
>when we issue more tags
>than we have of a
>resource. Not even a
>little bit more but close
>to 30% more. We
>have not control of the
>other and we are still
>putting that much pressure on
>the herd. It's completly
>irresponsible and selfish. Nothing to
>do with bigger bucks and
>easier hunts, it's just human
>greed. Helll it's
>pretty much the old childhood
>story of the Golden Goose,
>were just choking the shiit
>out of that gander instead
>of cutting it's head off.
>

You probably ought to do a little more homework (and think) before you make your posts!

1)- DWR DOES NOT issue more buck permits than there are legal bucks to hunt unless you discount a whole generation of male yearlings who are counted post season as fawns the year before, but who grow 5" antlers before the hunt the following year. You may not like the fact that those spikes/forkhorns are legal to hunt/shoot, but they are legal nevertheless. And many hunters have no problem hunting and shooting them.

2)- Shooting bucks has virtually no negative impact on the populations since they DO NOT give birth to fawns and they DO NOT nurse them and they DO NOT protect them and they DO NOT show them where there is food, water, thermal cover, predator-safe cover, or migration routes. The does do all of that, not the bucks. In fact, once a buck impregnates his does, he becomes a biological liability and is competition for those pregnant does and young fawns. Reducing that competition before the rut to safe biologically sustainable levels will help INCREASE the population, not decrease it. I personally believe a buck to doe ratio of 18 to 20 on ALL General Units is a reasonable compromise and more than adequate.

And, FWIW, the fairy tale is not about a Golden GOOSE, but a regular looking goose that laid Golden EGGS and SHE wasn't a gander.

Finally, I made some reasonable suggestions on post 34 that only the OP responded to. Is this thread about ideas or people?
 
>>Bess and Slam,
>>AGREED! Hunter are the one
>>single factor that we can
>>control. Predators, winter, drought, Highway
>>mortally, none of it is
>>as controllable as hunters.
>>Especially when it comes to
>>the bucks in the herd.
>>
>>
>>How can we call ourselves ?conservationists?
>>when we issue more tags
>>than we have of a
>>resource. Not even a
>>little bit more but close
>>to 30% more. We
>>have not control of the
>>other and we are still
>>putting that much pressure on
>>the herd. It's completly
>>irresponsible and selfish. Nothing to
>>do with bigger bucks and
>>easier hunts, it's just human
>>greed. Helll it's
>>pretty much the old childhood
>>story of the Golden Goose,
>>were just choking the shiit
>>out of that gander instead
>>of cutting it's head off.
>>
>
>You probably ought to do a
>little more homework (and think)
>before you make your posts!
>
>
>1)- DWR DOES NOT issue more
>buck permits than there are
>legal bucks to hunt unless
>you discount a whole generation
>of male yearlings who are
>counted post season as fawns
>the year before, but who
>grow 5" antlers before the
>hunt the following year. You
>may not like the fact
>that those spikes/forkhorns are legal
>to hunt/shoot, but they are
>legal nevertheless. And many hunters
>have no problem hunting and
>shooting them.
>
>2)- Shooting bucks has virtually no
>negative impact on the populations
>since they DO NOT give
>birth to fawns and they
>DO NOT nurse them and
>they DO NOT protect them
>and they DO NOT show
>them where there is food,
>water, thermal cover, predator-safe cover,
>or migration routes. The does
>do all of that, not
>the bucks. In fact, once
>a buck impregnates his does,
>he becomes a biological liability
>and is competition for those
>pregnant does and young fawns.
>Reducing that competition before the
>rut to safe biologically sustainable
>levels will help INCREASE the
>population, not decrease it. I
>personally believe a buck to
>doe ratio of 18 to
>20 on ALL General Units
>is a reasonable compromise and
>more than adequate.
>
>And, FWIW, the fairy tale is
>not about a Golden GOOSE,
>but a regular looking goose
>that laid Golden EGGS and
>SHE wasn't a gander.
>
>Finally, I made some reasonable suggestions
>on post 34 that only
>the OP responded to. Is
>this thread about ideas or
>people?
>
>
>

And Once again You Post about the BS 'BUCK TO DOE RATIO' Mentality of this State!

When in FACT 'TOTAL DEER NUMBERS' are way more Important and let's have Some BUCKS with more age to them than Your MILK ON THE LIPP Buck's you're so Proud of!

You Count every GAWD-DAMNED Fawn with Nubbs to get you BUCK TO DOE Ratio's & it's TOTAL BS!

It's Amazing how the Deer Herd Flourished in Utah before all this BS Management Took Over!

But Now We're Controlling them & Managing and look at what we have now!

WAFJ!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 09:18AM (MST)[p]EFA, would you like to help explain how the DWR's model during winter counts on the Beaver unit alone in 2014 showed 3000 "deer" (bucks, does fawns) yet they issued 3386 total buck tags in 2017 with a harvest of 1329 bucks?

Yes there is a 3 year discrepancy in the public data there, but the herd numbers couldn't have changed much in the 2015 to 2017 hunting season.

They DO issue more buck tags than there are actual bucks due to an average hunter success rate of less than 30%.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18
>AT 09:18?AM (MST)
>
>EFA, would you like to help
>explain how the DWR's model
>during winter counts on the
>Beaver unit alone in 2014
>showed 3000 "deer" (bucks, does
>fawns) yet they issued 3386
>total buck tags in 2017
>with a harvest of 1329
>bucks?
>
>Yes there is a 3 year
>discrepancy in the public data
>there, but the herd numbers
>couldn't have changed much in
>the 2015 to 2017 hunting
>season.
>
>They DO issue more buck tags
>than there are actual bucks
>due to an average hunter
>success rate of less than
>30%.

Do you have a link to this report?

see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>Do you have a link to
>this report?
>
85705screenshot20181202134014adobeacrobat.jpg


It's all in the DWR website but in a PDF format that you download.
You can look at all the hunter success rates in each unit for 2017 and also see management plans.
They aren't always current, as the 2014 herd counts were the latest I could find. As we all know, the 2015 tags are allocated based off of 2014 winter counts.
The harvest data numbers I quoted were from last year, 2017.
 
I'd like to know what the Deer Herd Count was on the Beaver back in the day?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> I'd like to know what
>the Deer Herd Count was
>on the Beaver back in
>the day?
>
I couldn't find anything older than the 2014 winter count, but I'll keep digging.
Many other units data is also in there.
 
97055screenshot20181202141504adobeacrobat.jpg


According to their "5 year plan plan", the goal is 13000 wintering deer on the unit as long as the habitat can handle it.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18
>AT 09:18?AM (MST)
>
>EFA, would you like to help
>explain how the DWR's model
>during winter counts on the
>Beaver unit alone in 2014
>showed 3000 "deer" (bucks, does
>fawns) yet they issued 3386
>total buck tags in 2017
>with a harvest of 1329
>bucks?
>
>Yes there is a 3 year
>discrepancy in the public data
>there, but the herd numbers
>couldn't have changed much in
>the 2015 to 2017 hunting
>season.
>
>They DO issue more buck tags
>than there are actual bucks
>due to an average hunter
>success rate of less than
>30%.


Not Hard to Figure out why you seen what you seen on your 2018 Beaver Hunt there PUNK!

Issuing More Buck Tags on a Unit than there are Total Deer!

GEEZUS!!!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
But OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh the F'N Opportunity!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 

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