Surprise! Your hunting fees are going up ...

K

Kingsley

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2
The New Mexico Fishing and Hunting Agency has changed the rules on applying for big game hunts. Starting next year, hunting licenses for both residents and non-residents will be
non-refundable regardless of whether or not you are lucky in the draw. Not a huge deal for resident hunters but unlucky out-of-state hunters will be out an additional $65 just for applying. Not fair!

There's still time to tell our new governor that hunters don't need a tax increase. http://www.newmexicansformichelle.com/contact
 
Not a huge deal for Residents? Bull crap my CC charge was over $1100 bucks and I am a veteran.
I put in 14 apps for the family. WE are not on a point system why would they not refund?
Where did you hear about this?
 
Don't freak. The license fee (species) is still refundable if you're not lucky. I'm just talking about the Game Hunting license ($15 res / $65 non-res). When you apply for Draw, you're forced to buy a "Game Hunting" license.
 
Well, I sent a note to Govenor but since I am one of the evil non- residents I am betting it will be ignored. Dang, little by little the cost to hunt my favorite states is becoming unaffordable. Will hang in another year or two. Soon be too old to climb mountains anyway.
 
>Well, I sent a note to
>Govenor but since I am
>one of the evil non-
>residents I am betting it
>will be ignored. Dang, little
>by little the cost to
>hunt my favorite states is
>becoming unaffordable. Will hang in
>another year or two. Soon
>be too old to climb
>mountains anyway.

I hear 'ya. All I've hunted this year is birds.
 
I'm not complaining, cheap compared to some other states and never asked for my License fee back .
 
There is no other western state that I'm aware of that doesn't already require purchase of a license to apply. And most are more expensive than NM.

Be happy that you were able to check the "refund license fee if unsuccessful" in the past; Can't do that in AZ, WY, AK, CO...

IMO it was foolish to have allowed that in the first place for R & NR given the standard elsewhere.

Carl
 
***********************************
AZ is $165 non refundable, and NV $156 non refundable. Their pitch is that you get a preference point. With the exception of the Outfitter allotment, I dont think NM is any worse than any other state.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-18 AT 06:46PM (MST)[p]Wyoming does not make you buy a non refundable license just to apply for a big game permit
at least for non residents, have no idea on resident
you pay a application fee for each tag you put in for
 
UT doesn't offer a refund either if unsuccessful, or maybe I'm just not smart enough to know how to select it...
 
Every state has their system, I liked the refund, but thought it was stupid to offer it on the state's part. The only comparable state without a preference point system is idaho, and their non-refundable license is more ($154), so I guess there is no refuge from paying to hunt out of state.
 
In all reality $65 isn't going to 'make or break' anyone who's paying the big bucks anyways to apply for and hunt in NM. Got to keep things in perspective. Cost of travel, cost of a box of shells, cost of equipment, cost of outfitter...etc. Keep smiling and Merry Christmas.
 
I can't find anything on the NMDGF website or any other source. The OP doesn't cite any source to back up his statements and refers to a non-existent agency, ?The New Mexico Fishing and Hunting Agency.? It's the New Mexico Department of Game & Fish. I call BS.
 
Hopefully deadon is right. I don't recall anything about the Game Hunting License refund during public comment.

Now I wonder if the pronghorn changes will be a big surprise.
 
As a NR New Mexico has been ok for my family. I drew an Oryx tag 15 or so years ago and my daughter drew a youth tag in 2010 that unfortunately she could not make the trip. Paying $65 for a license is not that big of a deal. The issue I have is with the allotment of outfitter welfare tags coming out of the NR quota. Really puts the NR DIY person in very slim odds.
Bill
 
This is from the manner and method regulation that was just passed and takes effect on April 1, 2019

Applicants for special hunt drawings for public draw licenses may elect to receive a refund of the game hunting license and appropriate fees if they are unsuccessful in the drawing for all of the species applied for, as long as an authorization number (pursuant to Section 17-3-5 NMSA 1978) has not been issued to the applicant by the department. This provision may be rescinded by the director if such action is approved by the chairperson of the state game commission. This rescission may only take effect if the director moves to rescind between January 1, 2019 and June 30, 2019. If no such action is taken then the provision will remain unchanged.

19.31.3.11. Paragraph P


Kiowa Hunting Service
www.kiowahunting.com
[email protected]
 
Heck yeah! I bet draw odds skyrocket with the loss of 65$ Uh...?...probly not. Anxious to see the pronghorn draw this year
 
If you want to have the same chances in the draw as a resident, feel free to move to New Mexico. I've paid close to $5000 in state income tax this year not to mention all the sales tax, and every other tax this liberal state has. So the $65 license and low chances of drawing seem pretty inconsequential in comparison. Hell live in Texas don't pay income tax and you can buy a decent land owner tag for $5000.
 
I've had people tell me they quit NM after 2012 because of the NR quota change. I ask for their login information as proof and they won't share it. :)
 
Again, another example of "social" management. There will be no measurable difference in the number of applicants for licenses in 2019-2020. Never should have been offered in the first place since most western states require this fee or other fees to apply for licenses. Still very cheap to "apply" for licenses in NM, since license fees are refundable if not successful in the draw (other than application fee).

Yes, i do agree that the "outfitter" pool is BS, however that is set by Legislature, not the NMDGF. Get over that, NMDGF is not against non-residents.

Like everything else, just about everything is based on politics, power, or money. If we want to change the "outfitter" pool, then the law has to be changed. Which means, going to the legislature to change the 84%-10%-6% license allocation. No rocket science here, just outfitter political power in place. ]Average hunter won't commit time nor effort to make a difference.
 
>Again, another example of "social" management.
> There will be no
>measurable difference in the number
>of applicants for licenses in
>2019-2020. Never should have
>been offered in the first
>place since most western states
>require this fee or other
>fees to apply for licenses.
> Still very cheap to
>"apply" for licenses in NM,
>since license fees are refundable
>if not successful in the
>draw (other than application fee).
>
>
>Yes, i do agree that the
>"outfitter" pool is BS, however
>that is set by Legislature,
>not the NMDGF. Get
>over that, NMDGF is not
>against non-residents.
>
>Like everything else, just about everything
>is based on politics, power,
>or money. If we
>want to change the "outfitter"
>pool, then the law has
>to be changed. Which
>means, going to the legislature
>to change the 84%-10%-6% license
>allocation. No rocket science here,
>just outfitter political power in
>place. ]Average hunter won't
>commit time nor effort to
>make a difference.

agree
 
The thing that upsets me is the WAY they chose to increase the cost. There's a bunch of ways they could have increased the cost, but they chose to force a purchase of a license that really isn't desirable or even useful unless a big game tag is drawn via the lottery. It's like the used truck dealer saying, "If you want to buy this truck, you've got to buy a 20-ft trailer too." When you don't need a trailer, that forced buy is actually just a sneaky price increase.

The bureaucrats that made this decision are lying through their teeth when they suggest that we "get a license for that added cost". To be honest they should have just increased the application fee or the license fees instead of piling on the hidden costs.

This insincere and deceptive behavior just reinforces the fact that government cannot be trusted and should be significantly downsized.

p.s. I don't really care what state we're talking about. This process is wrong.
 
>The thing that upsets me is
>the WAY they chose to
>increase the cost. There's a
>bunch of ways they could
>have increased the cost, but
>they chose to force a
>purchase of a license that
>really isn't desirable or even
>useful unless a big game
>tag is drawn via the
>lottery. It's like the used
>truck dealer saying, "If you
>want to buy this truck,
>you've got to buy a
>20-ft trailer too." When you
>don't need a trailer, that
>forced buy is actually just
>a sneaky price increase.
>
>The bureaucrats that made this decision
>are lying through their teeth
>when they suggest that we
>"get a license for that
>added cost". To be honest
>they should have just increased
>the application fee or the
>license fees instead of piling
>on the hidden costs.
>
>This insincere and deceptive behavior just
>reinforces the fact that government
>cannot be trusted and should
>be significantly downsized.
>
>p.s. I don't really care what
>state we're talking about. This
>process is wrong.

Your point isn't very good. They realize that people aren't contributing unless they draw a license, and non-refundable application fees are less desirable for non-residents. You actually get something in return here, a small game license, which I used to kill and eat a couple quail on my ibex hunt. Im glad I had that opportunity. Again, take your complaints to a meeting, and leave your destructive rhetoric in the political forum.
 
I sent Michelle a note asking her to rethink the change. I also told her I will be sharing my corespondence with her to the hundreds and hundreds of VOTING RESIDENTS HERE ON MONSTER MULEYS.
I told her she should check us out

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
Sorry non residents, I think it is needed and fair.

I do agree that the outfitter pool is BS and screws the DIY non residents. It's wrong that the state guarantees a private company business with a public resource. But will take an act congress to fix and BMI telling what will come out of it when them jack a$$?s get a hold of it.

It's also unfair BS that Wyoming requires you to hunt with outfitters to hunt a wildernesses same Chit. It's just in NM
 
How about we focus on the real issues in NM? Such as killing coyotes and predators at the critical times, which is when deer fawn and elk calve? Burning and thinning thousands of acres(BLM, State Land, and FS)?

Do hunters only want to focus on selfish things instead of actually helping wildlife populations?... Primarily hunting males only will not affect a wildlife population, but will only affect the number of males in the population.

Non-residents (and some residents) complaining about the "non-refundable" game hunting license????? Seriously???? Few six packs of beer per year is all that you give up.

Let's have a serious discussion about wildlife "management". Biology first. Social second.

Anybody??
 
>As a NR New Mexico has
>been ok for my family.
>I drew an Oryx tag
>15 or so years ago
>and my daughter drew a
>youth tag in 2010 that
>unfortunately she could not make
>the trip. Paying $65 for
>a license is not that
>big of a deal. The
>issue I have is with
>the allotment of outfitter welfare
>tags coming out of the
>NR quota. Really puts the
>NR DIY person in very
>slim odds.
>Bill

I agree and I would be a DIYer in NM. Basically, I'd pay $78 for a lottery ticket with 3-15% chances of winning. A small game license isn't really useful from 1800 miles away. I'm from PA, we charge everyone $11 to apply for an elk license regardless of residency. No license necessary. If you draw, as a NR it's a $250 for a tag and $102 for a license, which included a buck deer tag, fall turkey, spring turkey and small game. If you don't draw you get a bonus point.

I'd much rather pay an extra $100 for the actual tag and or license than pay another, basically non-refundable application fee of $65 on top of the $13. I'd rather pay $25 to apply even. I guess I am not sure what the point is, or what's trying to be accomplished. If it's revenue, we're not talking about millions of dollars here. It's several hundred thousand. Roughly 11,000 unsuccessful applicants x $65 is $715K. Certainly, some people will be driven away, taking their $65 and an extra $13 per species application fee. Why not raise the tag $100-$150? 1,000 successful NRs adds $100K-$150K back in. Double the application fee. Add back in another $150K or maybe a little more. So far I've only been considering elk, but I'd guess that there aren't a lot of NRs who don't apply for elk. Of course, you could raise NR deer $50 or $75 too. At the end of the day, this might generate a little more revenue total, but NM brings in over $16M in license fees per year. This might add $300K at the most.

At the end of the day, most of us have a price limit. I don't mind paying for the actual hunt. The same number of licenses is going to be sold either way, so it doesn't affect any resident hunting. It just takes some opportunity away from the little guy, which is a recurring theme in hunting for the last two decades.
 
>I sent Michelle a note asking
>her to rethink the change.
>I also told her I
>will be sharing my corespondence
>with her to the hundreds
>and hundreds of VOTING RESIDENTS
>HERE ON MONSTER MULEYS.
>I told her she should check
>us out
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora

No fear folks, Joe told the Governor what to do. Everbody gets a license this year! YAY!

See you in the woods,
?Bill
 
>If you want to have the
>same chances in the draw
>as a resident, feel free
>to move to New Mexico.
>I've paid close to $5000
>in state income tax this
>year not to mention all
>the sales tax, and every
>other tax this liberal state
>has. So the $65 license
>and low chances of drawing
>seem pretty inconsequential in comparison.
>Hell live in Texas don't
>pay income tax and you
>can buy a decent land
>owner tag for $5000.


I hear this alot. In most states, very little of your tax money goes to fish & wildlife. NM may be different. But I doubt it. So it probably IS an issue about licence fees after all.
 
I am a non resident and I think it is really smart of them to do this. It generates money from license sales and more importantly I believe it gives them a greater share of PR tax as that is based on license sales I think? We always want government run like a business - they know you will all pay it so might as well collect the money.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-19 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]2019-2020 regs booklet page 14 first paragraph

the fee stems from the high cost of refunding all the license fees to those that did not draw.
every credit card Co, charges a fee when we first apply roughly 3% and a fee of roughly 3% to refund the money. so an $800 elk license cost in fees $48. add to that the handling fee that you have to pay for the staff that does all the work and its a negative cash flow to actually run the draw application.
When game and fish actually went to the fee structure of $15/$65 it was a big concern at a game commission meeting but they decided to try it and see if they could get worked out, if not they were going to have to go to a non-refundable fee.

So NM does care about the R/NR fees, they also offer one of the Highest %of tags to NR.

it just how the world works. I'm a NR in 49 other states and I have to accept the rules of those states if I want to go hunting there.

the end
 
, they also offer
>one of the Highest %of
>tags to NR.


FALSE - 6% is on the low end of everywhere other than Oregon, congrats on being the 2nd worst.

The outfitter pool IS NOT a NR tag allocation, it is outfitter welfare.

Can we talk about how most of the outfitters in New Mexico are about 20% as good as outfitters in other states like AZ, NV, UT, WY etc where they actually have to compete for business based on their skill in the field and trophies on the ground instead of state sponsored business?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-19 AT 08:59AM (MST)[p]it is a NR pool just because it has to go to an Outfitter does not mean its not a NR pool.
it is not like NM started the outfitter required hunts. and it is more of a Job creation policy than it is a welfare for Outfitters.

If you have ever run an outfitting business you would under stand that most of the fee charged are paid out in overhead cost.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-19
>AT 08:23?AM (MST)
>
>2019-2020 regs booklet page 14 first
>paragraph
>
>the fee stems from the high
>cost of refunding all the
>license fees to those that
>did not draw.
>every credit card Co, charges a
>fee when we first apply
>roughly 3% and a fee
>of roughly 3% to refund
>the money. so an $800
>elk license cost in fees
>$48. add to that the
>handling fee that you have
>to pay for the staff
>that does all the work
>and its a negative cash
>flow to actually run the
>draw application.
>When game and fish actually went
>to the fee structure of
>$15/$65 it was a big
>concern at a game commission
>meeting but they decided to
>try it and see if
>they could get worked out,
>if not they were going
>to have to go to
>a non-refundable fee.
>
>So NM does care about the
>R/NR fees, they also offer
>one of the Highest %of
>tags to NR.
>
>it just how the world works.
>I'm a NR in 49
>other states and I have
>to accept the rules of
>those states if I want
>to go hunting there.
>
>the end


If NM pays 3% for credit card transactions both ways, they have a worse deal than almost any business.. That would be horrific, actually, and there is no way they would be absorbing 6% of every unsuccessful applicant. If that were true, it would be much cheaper to only hit the cards that are drawn. No one could be that mismanaged. A tiny mom and pop store doing 20K a year could get a better deal.

Also, CC processing is not without benefits. It reduces the workforce required to process applications by a huge amount.
 

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