We're Not all Conspiracy Theorists but...

huntinguy

Active Member
Messages
303
In this case I am. I know I know I'm beating a dead horse so to speak, but I have been putting in for expo tags every couple to three years or so with no real thought to getting drawn for one of the primo tags I was putting my $5 in for. We're talking putting in $50 to $100 buck each time.

Over that time I also noted that there were lots of anti expo guys on this site and others that were very vocal. I paid them no mind and instead thought so what someone is going to draw the tags. Then last Thursday night I look to no surprise at my name being no where on the draw list. However; I like others do notice one name in particular which is no other than Heather Farrar. Now here is where I tell myself, I am done, I will no longer make the 10 hour roundtrip drive on a Saturday to validate my tags without even entering the expo. I'm done.

There is one reason...the powers that be that put on the expo are flirting with disaster. They know like most of us have or are now starting to learn that the expo draw is more who you know and have connections with than pure chance. For anyone that thinks Heather and others I'm told drawing as often as they do is just chance and luck are fools. SFW and their cohorts are spitting in the face of honest folks when they give a tag to Heather every other year.

Now I saw Founder chimed in last week and as the owner of this site said what he pretty much had to say, basically that there is no foul play, nothing to see here, etc...

At the end of the day, I look at this foolhardy enterprise much like I do the Nevada draw system- put in money, money, money to only come out with nothing or in Nevadas case put in hundreds each year to be able to draw when by the time you do, you could have purchased the tag. I digress.

I will not be putting in for the expo draw and wasting my time again.
 
We?re all entitled to our own opinions. To me the notion that it's all rigged because a few people have drawn multiple tags is silly.
BUT, maybe I'm being ?paid off? to say that. Hmmmmm
Or maybe I'm not being paid off, but they kidnapped me and hypnotized me and programmed my brain to believe it's all on the up and up. Hmmmmm
It might go deeper than we think. The Russians have got to be behind it all.

LOL. Just having fun with it. It's funny!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Founder, just a legitimate question for you, as I don't think anyone has every stated that they think the entire draw is rigged. But let's say, just for the sake of argument, that one bad actor was able to funnel 3-5 tags out of the 200 to selected participants. What if it was only 1-2 a year?

Would you still think it is funny?

Now back to reality: let me reiterate, I am not convinced there is foul play here. Things seem fishy with how it plays out, but that doesn't mean that it is. All I want is transparency so nobody is able to ask these questions anymore. I'm not sure why anyone would be against that? Why is it so hard for those running the expo and the DWR/state to just open things up and let people see what is happening?
 
Vanilla, if anyone let you see the draw process you wouldn't know what you are looking at. You couldn't tell the difference between a random number generator and turbo tax.

I have sat and watched over a hundred posts of sour grapes and mathamagicians trying to prove their paranoia is valid. Whats funny is many of the same people who think the draw is "rigged" are the same ones who are mad at people who just quit jumping through the hoops of the "rigged" system and reach into their pockets to get a tag. Basically we are all starting to realize the internet is full of whiners who can't be satisfied.
 
Are numbers available to calculate the odds of one person drawing tags more than once? I wonder what the odds are
 
>Founder, just a legitimate question for
>you, as I don't think
>anyone has every stated that
>they think the entire draw
>is rigged. But let's say,
>just for the sake of
>argument, that one bad actor
>was able to funnel 3-5
>tags out of the 200
>to selected participants. What if
>it was only 1-2 a
>year?
>
>Would you still think it is
>funny?
>
>Now back to reality: let me
>reiterate, I am not convinced
>there is foul play here.
>Things seem fishy with how
>it plays out, but that
>doesn't mean that it is.
>All I want is transparency
>so nobody is able to
>ask these questions anymore. I'm
>not sure why anyone would
>be against that? Why is
>it so hard for those
>running the expo and the
>DWR/state to just open things
>up and let people see
>what is happening?

I agree with FOUNDER. Only because I've never believed THE DON was stupid. He set it up.

The 10hour trip part I am curious about. How is it the tag draw guys have to validate in person, yet the sat night guys can bid for tags via surrogate?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Has anyone asked and answered the question, "What does SFW gain by making sure this Heather person gets a tag?"
 
She's a cute blonde, maybe they need her to shoot something big so they can use her success photo to draw more expo attendees??? Ha ha

I just see zero evidence that those behind the expo draw have it rigged, even for just 2 or 3 tags. Could it be hacked?Possibly, but so could any state draw.

I might be wrong, but I think there are just some who want to undermine SFW and the expo, and this stuff is just a tool. It's good for a chuckle is how I see it.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>Vanilla, if anyone let you see
>the draw process you wouldn't
>know what you are looking
>at. You couldn't tell
>the difference between a random
>number generator and turbo tax.

No I could not, but then again I have already stated multiple times very clearly what I'd like to see done, and how I would accept the results 100%. So it's not my fault if you are not paying attention.
 
I live in Wyoming.

Every year I apply for deer, elk, and antelope tags here.

Last deer tag I drew was 2000. Last elk tag was 1988.

Just because you apply doesn't mean you'll draw...nor are you entitled to.

Meanwhile, folks I know have drawn the same tags frequently. It sucks, but that's just the way it is in a random draw system. 10% odds doesn't mean you'll draw a tag once every 10 years. It means you have a 10% chance of drawing every year. Period.

Get over it already...
 
Founder, Why dont you put your wife in for some tags? I am sure she would draw just as easy as Heater. :)
 
Like it was said above. What would they gain giving Heather another tag ? I guess she cares enough to put in. Does anyone know if she hunted last year on her Expo tag ? A pictures or publicity photos taken ? It's a draw. Not a sure thing. I have put in every year and have never drawn a tag. Am I crying about it and calling foul. No it's draw. It's a chance at a great tag and I will continue to try. I am not guaranteed a tag on the Utah draw system every year ether. But I will patently wait until I draw.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-18 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]Yes.

If you apply for every decent tag (no bear, lion or turkey tags) your odds are 7.4% you would draw each year. Not too shabby.

https://huntexpo.com/odds-at-drawing-an-expo-tag/

If she drew one tag every other year for the last 6 years, the odds of that are just over: 0.3% or 1 in 300+.

Not great, but it is possible and I guess it might even be likely that someone would hit 3 out of 6 years, it just happened to be her that did.

If it is somehow rigged, then people need to go to jail! Why would someone risk that? She drew BookCliffs South this year. Nice tag, but not a Henry's or Paunsagaunt tag. Heck, I bet she could buy one for 6-8K, maybe less, if she really wanted to hunt the monster muleys that live in the BookCliffs.

I only found results for 2018, 2017 and 2015 and she only drew in 2018. Perhaps she did draw in 2016 and 2014, but I can't find those results online.
 
Dang right! Hot chicks get all the tags!


>Founder, Why dont you put your
>wife in for some tags?
> I am sure she
>would draw just as easy
>as Heater. :)


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Although I have no first-hand knowledge, I have always said that I don't believe the drawing is intentionally rigged. Why would SFW and MDF take that risk? Why jeopardize the absolute gravy train that they have going with the expo tags? From my point of view, there are plently of real life problems relating to the expo tags for me to spend time chasing ghosts.

But it is entertaining to read these annual threads, and I do understand why sportsmen question the integrity of the drawing process given the history with the expo tags.

-Hawkeye-
 
I remember when I started working at a place that did random drug screens. Each month they would randomly, or as close as possible, select 5 people for drug screens. After getting drawn two months in a row, I told my boss I thought this was suppose to be random. He said the fact that I got drawn two months in a row was the definition of random.

Not at all convinced that SFW is smart enough to rig a drawing. The only thing they are smart enough to do was convince the State of Utah that they should get a few hundred tags to give away for the State and keep some of the money. But given that Utah is the Pyramid Scheme capital of the USA, conning Utah is not that hard to do.

If looks is the determining factor on getting a Utah tag, I am screwed.
 
Vanilla, You said you want transparency and that is what I was talking about. So I am paying attention. I am talking about the fact that you can't comprehend what you see. Transparency is just a word for you and others to hit someone over the head with when math and logic aren't going to prevail in an argument for you. Do you need to leave man town again?
 
>Vanilla, You said you want
>transparency and that is what
>I was talking about.
>So I am paying attention.
> I am talking about
>the fact that you can't
>comprehend what you see.
>Transparency is just a
>word for you and others
>to hit someone over the
>head with when math and
>logic aren't going to prevail
>in an argument for you.
> Do you need to
>leave man town again?


I do want transparency, but that does not mean that they have to show each person individually everything. Just because you misunderstand the word does not mean others do. Again, I've made it very clear what I hope would happen with this issue, and if you can't keep up, that is not my problem.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-18 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-18 AT 12:25?PM (MST)

Mule creek....
At my work, I've been ?randomed? for drug screening twice in the same day! Out of the thousands of employees. Go figure. But I'll gladly go pee for someone and get paid for it if it makes them happy.
But your analogy is exactly my point.
I've spent enough years at my job and hold a position high enough to learn and know the drug screening is not always completely random. It's no coincidence that many employees get ?randomed? after management learns of a party over the weekend.
In 15 years at my job, I've been randomed 4 times. All being in the last 2 years.
Apparently my luck to get randomed for drug screens at work hasn't carried over luck at the expo.
But then again, my looks nor my lack of donations to SFW won't help me much either.
But I'm willing to bet that the majority of the thousands of employees do believe its a fair and random drug screen just because the company says it is.





"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
I've got an expo question, can you buy more than one entry for each drawing? Obviously someone who buys 100 tickets would have more odds than a person with one entry.


Hasbean
 
>I've got an expo question, can
>you buy more than one
>entry for each drawing?
>Obviously someone who buys 100
>tickets would have more odds
>than a person with one
>entry.
>
>
>Hasbean


No, you many not buy more than one entry for each hunt.
 
A WISE MAN ONCE TOLD ME, "IF YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN OR JUSTIFY AN ACTIVITY, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM"

CROOKED
RIGGED
BIASED
SLANTED
BAD CODE


WHATEVER....






"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
Gordy,
I'll bet that wise man didn't hang around with a lot of people that continually made accusations when they didn't get their own way. I'll bet he came from a time when people owned what they said and didn't pipe off without any personal accountability. Just a guess.
 
No dog in the fight but....my Son has drawn 3-tags at the expo, another dozen friends have drawn as well. We are a bunch of construction workers with limited budgets and no connections to anyone.
Just sayin...
 
I said above that I have never drawn a Expo tag. But I to have had many friends draw. My daughter and son have also drew tags.
 
>I said above that I have
>never drawn a Expo tag.
>But I to have had
>many friends draw. My daughter
>and son have also drew
>tags.



Me & BIGJOHN are JINXED!:D
 
Whatever the reason it does piss people off to watch insane luck by some.

I've been involved in friends of NRA banquets over the last couple of decades in various locations. One such banquet there was a select few who kept winning over and over to the point of it being uncomfortable. Was it rigged? No way in hell. Could it and should it have been handled differently. I think so yes. The following years numbers went in the toilet because of it.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
So far the only answer to my question of why rig it for one person is because she is attractive. I've been to Utah, there are lots of good looking blondes. The Aryan gene pool is deep in the valley. No need to try this hard for one. Scam theory doesn't pass the smell test.
 
After the first debacle on here that led to a kutv news story. I would have a hard time believing founder wasn't reached out to by sfw representatives.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-18 AT 12:37PM (MST)[p]??? I really do consider myself a conspiracy junky and you guys are top level! Hats off!!!
 

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