I would bet the attendance would go way down without the tags. I however would be 100% on board with eliminating the draw tags and put them back where the belong, that is in the general draw.
I think you are right smokepole!
Yes sir!
Sorry man. I did not mean to cry. lol. I have never posted anything on MM. I was sincerely curious on what peoples sentiments were about the expo as I am trying to form my own take on it. I did not realize it had been a topic of so much discussion and I that I was beating a dead horse.
Try the search function. The reading should keep you entertained for awhile.
I’m crying.
Your experience with that velvet buck reminds me of Erick Chessler today, if that ear tucker is 5’3” on a his best day then Doyle’s an easy 6’10”.#fireBull #MbRedHatsI have opinions like everyone else does about the expo and don't have time to get into it, but some of the scores on the animals in the lobby cracked me up today.
There is a velvet mule deer near the south entrance on the 1st floor that says it was 205" gross. If that buck is 205, maybe I have broken the 200" club in my life (several times)
Attendance would be the same. At this point the tags are not the point of it
I have opinions like everyone else does about the expo and don't have time to get into it, but some of the scores on the animals in the lobby cracked me up today.
There is a velvet mule deer near the south entrance on the 1st floor that says it was 205" gross. If that buck is 205, maybe I have broken the 200" club in my life (several times)
Yep-I thought the MM measuring tape was bad. Doesn’t hold a candle to the expo tape!!
As a new comer it’s very possible you would be curious about people’s sentiments. Seems perfectly logically to me.
So you were there and saw me in my new Jeans?
They allegedly enhance illegal bear bait sites due to their large body composition and ease of mobility in their pre dispatched state according to at least one premier beehive outfitter. #WLh
If you have a 'dead horse', why worry about hookers?
I was there validating my tags and I sure didn't see you. I didn't see anyone in "bedazzled" jeans. What I did see, was that most everyone were average joes wearing loose fit jeans and curved billed ball caps. Lot of kids running around very excited and looking to have a great time.
I like going just to see all the hunting stuff. I have enough gear, but, sometimes just being in that atmosphere is worth the trip. I might pick up a new tripod or angled spotter or whatever. As I age out of being an active stalking/walking hunter, I've got to look for new things to make my hunting trips a bit more enjoyable and prolong my time in the woods.
Great question blue.
This is a very good way to put it. We all have our individual biases that make us prioritize things differently. I personally would rather not support the organizations that use fraud, deceit, and bribery to further their own agendas (at the expense of the general public). That is my priority. Others are more than willing to look beyond those facts because they enjoy the expo. I used to attend the expo every year and it does have some very interesting stuff. They do a great job, no doubt about it. So if you prioritize your own entertainment above donating money to these groups you'll have a great time. Or, if you're ignorant of the underlying facts like many people are, you'll also have a great time. The expo tag drawing is not giving the public any additional chance to draw a tag, as they will lead you to believe. It's just taking the chance away from the general public and redistributing it to people who donate to the corrupt organizations. If they had kept their original promise to use "the lion's share" of the proceeds to benefit wildlife I would still be attending their event each year. But when they only give 1 or 2 percent of their profits back to wildlife it irritates me. At least now they are forced by law to give 30%, which they reluctantly do.
Your view is certainly not different than others here on MM and else where. But……. apparently it is not the view of the gate keepers in the Utah Legislature, Utah Div of Wildlife, the Attorney Generals Office, State Tax Commission, etc etc because, over these years these individual gate keepers have come and gone, with chances in who the gate keepers are, yet, per the demands by media and EXPO opposing organizations and influential individuals, the concept and the Convention goes forward. Of course we are each still free to see that too, from our own prism of bias.
Sincere question here...Who are the people getting the expo tags that are donors of the corrupt organizations? I'm really curious to know so as to be able to paint a picture and connect the dots to be able to expose this dishonesty.
You go ks…..enjoy the journey.
Another truth…… found myself in exactly the same place. For me, it to see family and friends more than anything else anymore. Of course I donate to the raffle while I’m there as well. We all have our reasons. The EXPO means many different things to many different people.
But does your state take over 200 prime tags from your general draw and give them to privatized groups who reap the majority of proceeds as ‘operating costs’?
The donors are the people applying for the tags. Each application costs $5 and the "conservation" organizations keep $3.50 of that. They have to use the other $1.50 for wildlife conservation, but even that is largely at their discretion and another topic entirely. So in order to have a chance at those expo tags you are required to become a donor to those organizations.
Its pretty clear there are more people involved in the corruption than just SFW and MDF. I'm sure you remember when RMEF put in a bid to host the expo and the DWR broke their own administrative rules in order to make sure the expo stayed with SFW. If the DWR was an unbiased, neutral organization they would have followed the law and awarded the contract to RMEF. Its all just politics and back scratching. One of the biggest gate keepers in all this is the governor. Herbert was certainly involved in receiving bribes from SFW, and its no surprise that his apprentice Mr Cox stayed with the status quo when he took office. Just because the name of the gate keeper changes doesn't mean the policies, relationships, and kickbacks are going to change.
Please provide evidence for the corruption you are boycotting. I’d love to see it. Would be a shame to boycott massive corruption based on rumor, paranoia and innuendo.
I'm not your secretary so I'll pass on writing you up a full report. My opinions are based on things I've heard and seen over a number of years but I can assure you it is not speculation. I'm talking about firsthand conversations and public documents from SFW, the DWR, RMEF, and the governor's office. The thing that really turned me off the expo was viewing SFW's financial reports for the first 8 years of the expo. I'm going off memory here because those documents have been scrubbed from SFW's site. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in those first 8 years they took in roughly $1 million per year from the expo tags. Of that $8 million, which they promised they'd use "the lion's share" (a quote from Don Peay) for wildlife conservation...of the $8 million they had documented only about $140k in wildlife related expenses. Most of that was for scholarships. I recall one line item in particular from their finances where Don paid himself a "consulting fee" of over $400k in a single year, directly from the expo tag proceeds. To me "the lion's share" went into their pockets and not even the dung beetle's share went to wildlife. Feel free to do your own research but understand SFW has tried to bury those records. UWC was started specifically because of this corruption and they tried to get a law passed, requiring the same 90/10 split they use for the conservation tags. They eventually got a law passed requiring 30% of the money to be used for wildlife, which was disappointing but better than nothing. In the wake of UWC's movement, knowing the expo tag contract was renewed every 5 years, the RMEF decided to put in a bid for that contract. That opened up a different aspect of the nepotism ring and it was pretty well documented on this site. There are many more details I could cite but I think I've made my point. The corruption is real and definitely not based on "rumor, paranoia and innuendo".
I didn't know about some of that
Actually, you left out the Governor that start all this so called corruption. Gov. Jon Huntsman, the son of one of the richest families and a well know philanthropist family, that have given millions and millions of their fortune to build cancer research centers and countless other humanitarian efforts here in Utah and across the entire world. This so called corrupt Governor was the political founder of this notoriously corrupt money making scheme. Bring along the so call corruption of every future Governor since Huntsman retired, every Attorney General, every State Tax Commissioner, ever Senator, every Legislator, every DWR Director, etc etc, for the last 18 years. Ya, and then add to that list the Governors and Legislators, AGs, and Fish and Game Directors of all the other States, that send their big games tags to the EXPO, to raise money for their wildlife funding needs.
If all that money only ever actually made it back into the wildlife it came from… all those stolen opportunities from Utah hunters might actually have made it worth it for all. Unfortunately that’s far from reality. And the average sportsman continues be stolen from year after year. With all those millions made, you’d think Utah wildlife would be absolutely THRIVING as a result.
Stolen?
im talking about the draw. Where they stole 200 tags every year from the public draw system.Stolen?
Because the people who paid for them or drew them at the expo aren't public and you can't put in for them either???????
You think if someone doesn't match yourself they aren't average
The 200 have not been stolen from the public, not the resident or the non-resident public. They are a cheaper raffle, you can apply for many more species every year and they don’t require a life time of points to draw, so the only objection you can have is the different requirement to enter the public draw by having to travel and apply in person, rather than through e-mail. Or you object to what the money is used for, yet you have not expressed any beef about what the Nevada company does with the $10 you send them to apply for the other 45,000 plus tags. So it’s a dislike for the host people……… that is all it can possibly be but go ahead and hid the truth by pretending it’s something else, like thief.
@DoubleDropMuley why did you guys let Utah have moose and two gov mule deer tags?
I thought that same thing about that exact buckI have opinions like everyone else does about the expo and don't have time to get into it, but some of the scores on the animals in the lobby cracked me up today.
There is a velvet mule deer near the south entrance on the 1st floor that says it was 205" gross. If that buck is 205, maybe I have broken the 200" club in my life (several times)
Glad I wasn’t the only one-I am getting older and my vision is not as good as it once was, but I am not completely blind yetI thought that same thing about that exact buck
Those 200 tags are coming from the public draw quota set by the state. Those tags don’t just magically appear. They come from somewhere. And that’s at the expense of the public draw hunters.
Because they aren’t all at the expense of public utah draw hunter. They are hunts from several states/countries. They are 1 tag. Some have been donated from land owners, CWMUs, etc…. The draw tags were taken from residents and their state draw system. And pimped out for profit.
Next year I will have a vendor booth at the Expo selling a new product, The Digital B&C Calculator.
There’s how it works, take a four sided picture of any mounted set of antlers, run the 4 images through the The Digital B&C Calculator AI software and voila, 204 3/8”
Problem solved.
Projected price: $50,000.00 each.
See you there next February.
Not.
All the public has to do is pay $5 for a chance at them. Nothing got stolen. Give the hyperbole a rest. It makes your argument look like a teenage girl isn't getting her way.
Of all people, you would know about that.
Yes. I have raised teenage girls.
Let’s not forget and lose sight of the Salsa and beard wax’s impact of the WhCe, but most definitely someone needs to do the Christian thing and post some first hand insight on the blow and preferably some pics of the hookers.
Are you thinking about the Super Bowl half time show?
Nope, you just have to use that search function!
Don't drag Idaho into this ! We don't need to be part of the scam.
The odds at the Expo the last several years for the good tags has been around 1:5,000. The odds for a Henry's deer tag last year was 1:11,000
Way better odds grizz, and a lot more fun to boot.
Las Vegas vs Utah. I don't like Vegas but I do apply for Utah Deer Tag every year. We are headed to Spanish Fork tomorrow to see family. I missed it by a day. They both fleece money. I spent some money this week paying cash for a truck and paying off my Travel Trailer. Those were a sure bet as creditors always take a payment giving you the deed or title. And I didn't fund a organization that gives 70% of the proceeds to themselves .
Don’t worry.
Do you have any proof of your accusations?
, I mean let them try for bear, Lion and wolf !!
