let me try this again. I drew that tag this year and was hoping to mostly hunt water. Any thoughts on how key water will be for archery? I understand the fires had to have transformed the hunting so I am gathering info.I spent 12 days down there last year, saw one buck pushing the 200" mark. Saw him one night and never saw him again, saw one solid 180-190 class buck and could locate him each morning for a few days. Put the sneak on him 5 different times but could never close the deal. Missed a very easy shot at a 175 class buck and still regret that! I had an archery tag.
The guy that found most of the bucks alpha killed, split and went on his own. Russ neilson and his crew will take great care of anyone who has an OC tag. His company is Utah Premiere Outfitters.Congrats! Contact alpha outfitters ASAP!! Best guides for that mountain
Yep your right. I know Russ’s brother. He guides with him and he was showing me their new logo a few days ago. They are dang good guys and know where the deer and elk will be.The guy that found most of the bucks alpha killed, split and went on his own. Russ neilson and his crew will take great care of anyone who has an OC tag. His company is Utah Premiere Outfitters.
PM me your number and I'll text you a photo of a buck you might like that I took this past March. I live in Oak City.I have drawn a NR deer tag for Fillmore Oak Creek. I cant wait!!! Any pictures of past bucks or info would be appreciated.
There are better bucks here now than there were in '06. Moving the boundary from the forest service boundary down to the Highway made all the difference. Lots of bucks used to be taken out on the general unit as they left the hay fields which doesn't happen anymore.Back in 2006 when I had the tag, I found 3 shooter bucks.One was killed on the muzzy hunt and the other two I could never turn back up. I think it's sound advice not to pass up a 180 buck. There are bigger on the unit, but the oak creeks have a way of hiding them well.
If I had that tag I am not chancing it to a diy hunt unless you know the mountain good! I would call alpha.let me try this again. I drew that tag this year and was hoping to mostly hunt water. Any thoughts on how key water will be for archery? I understand the fires had to have transformed the hunting so I am gathering info.
Hopefully you won't be swamped with 500 spotters, and 500 sitters this year.
Good luck!
His business went live as of a month or two ago. He is getting all the social media information up and running. Russ Nielson was the head guide on the oak creeks for WLH for five years and Alpha for one. He decided to start his own guiding company this year.Google Utah Priemere Outdfitters and see what pops up, it is not Russ Nielsen
Russ is a good friend. Last year was my last year guiding for awhile. Kids are growing up and are involved in a lot of things. So not leaving much time to guide.Letshunt do you guide with Russ, you have posted some nice Buck pictures
Yes and look what it’s done to point creep!Are we really responding to a post from 2012??
Yep.....and in 5 years we'll be saying "remember how good the Oak Creek unit used to be?"Yes and look what it’s done to point creep!
25 nonresident points wasn’t enough this year.
I don’t get how anyone with any self respect would judge or care what anyone else does with their own hard earned money.I just don't get how anyone with any self respect would hire a guide unless it is mandatory like grizz or sheep in Alaska or a wilderness hunt in Wyoming. Don't people realize what they are getting into before they apply for a hunt?
I would rather kill a 160" buck on my own than a 210" deer that somebody else put me on. I'm not paying someone to sit at my campfire and definitely not someone I may not like or even get along with. Listen to how many guides out there talk about their hunts "I killed this buck or I got this buck" the hunter is an afterthought and doesn't usually get any respect which they probably don't deserve in the first place.
If you are going to hunt this unit all you need is a little time and some really good boots (ankle support and side armor) there are few trails and lots of loose rock, you will roll ankles without good boots. There are enough people that have hunted this unit who are willing to give you advice on the unit. Save the guide money for gas and good optics.
Living here and knowing what is possible I wouldn't shoot anything less than a 200" buck even up until the last day. I know I piss off a lot of locals by even talking about this unit but like my old Granny used to say "if they don't like it then Fugg 'em".
Was you putting in for it before it was hot spotted???Yes and look what it’s done to point creep!
25 nonresident points wasn’t enough this year.
If I remember correctly there is only 1 non resident tag per hunt therefore they would be a random draw tag so points wouldn’t mean squat.Yes and look what it’s done to point creep!
25 nonresident points wasn’t enough this year.
Hey Buckhorn, did they post the draw odds for 2022 yet (maybe I missed them) or did you have 25 pts and not get drawn?Yes and look what it’s done to point creep!
25 nonresident points wasn’t enough this year.
He had 25 and didn't draw.Hey Buckhorn, did they post the draw odds for 2022 yet (maybe I missed them) or did you have 25 pts and not get drawn?
I remember when you could draw every 3 years for an archery tag!Was you putting in for it before it was hot spotted???
This is correct!He had 25 and didn't draw.
I wish everyone believed that.If I remember correctly there is only 1 non resident tag per hunt therefore they would be a random draw tag so points wouldn’t mean squat.
I was one of the two non-residents with 24 points last year.Was you putting in for it before it was hot spotted???
I was one of the two non-residents with 24 points last year.
The other guy had the lower number and got the bonus tag.
Sorry 1 tag for archery and 1 for muzzleI wish everyone believed that.
Look at last years Quotas
and this year’s recommendations!
elk at this rate will need one of those wheelchair permit tags lolHey buckhorn!
You've Got Luck Like Me!
I read they were recommending three nonresident rifle tags this year.Sorry 1 tag for archery and 1 for muzzle
2 for ALW
so yeah your odds are not great with only 1 tag available to bonus draw.
I drew the unit on 07 with 3 and it only took 9 points
Father in law drew in 18’ with 19 points
Brother in law in 20’ with 19 points
But that is resident numbers so you non-res are unfortunately in a crappy place
I’m listening to what you say my friend. I just wish I was as young as you.I’ll just stay the course until it peaks, starts to decline and everyone hops back onto the pauns and Henries bandwagon. Then maybe I’ll have a chance again.
Can’t wait to see the draw results. Maybe your credit card was declined and some lucky SOB got the tag with only 24 pts!!This is correct!
If most of your average Joe's go into hunting the Oak Creeks with your attitude, they are most likely going home empty handed.I just don't get how anyone with any self respect would hire a guide unless it is mandatory like grizz or sheep in Alaska or a wilderness hunt in Wyoming. Don't people realize what they are getting into before they apply for a hunt?
I would rather kill a 160" buck on my own than a 210" deer that somebody else put me on. I'm not paying someone to sit at my campfire and definitely not someone I may not like or even get along with. Listen to how many guides out there talk about their hunts "I killed this buck or I got this buck" the hunter is an afterthought and doesn't usually get any respect which they probably don't deserve in the first place.
If you are going to hunt this unit all you need is a little time and some really good boots (ankle support and side armor) there are few trails and lots of loose rock, you will roll ankles without good boots. There are enough people that have hunted this unit who are willing to give you advice on the unit. Save the guide money for gas and good optics.
Living here and knowing what is possible I wouldn't shoot anything less than a 200" buck even up until the last day. I know I piss off a lot of locals by even talking about this unit but like my old Granny used to say "if they don't like it then Fugg 'em".
If they did give 3 then yes that would mean 2 bonus and 1 random.I read they were recommending three nonresident rifle tags this year.
Would that be two bonus and one random?
The average Joe? My attitude of 200" or nothing on this unit? You're probably right but a competent person that spent a few weekends or 5-7 days scouting before the hunt would have a very good chance at it especially with an any weapon tag. Getting a 180+ with a bow without any help would be a real challenge mostly because of the terrain. I live here and spend a lot of time on the mountain even during the winter we are on it trapping, there really isn't much else to do.If most of your average Joe's go into hunting the Oak Creeks with your attitude, they are most likely going home empty handed.
Would like to see some pictures. Had quality changed over that time span?Sorry 1 tag for archery and 1 for muzzle
2 for ALW
so yeah your odds are not great with only 1 tag available to bonus draw.
I drew the unit on 07 with 3 and it only took 9 points
Father in law drew in 18’ with 19 points
Brother in law in 20’ with 19 points
But that is resident numbers so you non-res are unfortunately in a crappy place
This is where I disagree. Your average hunter that probably never has scouted that much in the past on other general hunts, is not going to show up on that unit and after a couple weekends before the hunt, find a few 200" bucks to go after. Even if they do find one, the odds of finding it again after the archery and muzzy hunters have pushed the deer around are very slim. Even on the oak creek. Comparing yourself to one of these average hunters that have never been on the oak creek is comparing apples and oranges.The average Joe? My attitude of 200" or nothing on this unit? You're probably right but a competent person that spent a few weekends or 5-7 days scouting before the hunt would have a very good chance at it especially with an any weapon tag. Getting a 180+ with a bow without any help would be a real challenge mostly because of the terrain. I live here and spend a lot of time on the mountain even during the winter we are on it trapping, there really isn't much else to do.
Jake,If they did give 3 then yes that would mean 2 bonus and 1 random.
How long have you been putting in for oak Creek?
Nope, that is how they used to do it, but last year or the year before they started giving the extra tag to the bonus pool.Jake,
Unless the NR allotment is different, the F&G takes half the tags (3 divided by 2 = 1.5) and then rounds DOWN to get the bonus tag total.
That means 1 bonus, 2 random. I HATE the way they do it but it is what it is. That's why there are usually more random tags given than bonus.
Zeke
Thanks for your honest assessment of the unit.The secret is out! ? The oak creek holds large mule deer. Here is my overview on the unit being a local and having spent a ton of time helping and guiding for the last 5 years.
The hay day years when tag numbers were low and overall buzz ? of the unit was kept fairly quiet. I’d say the best years were 2013-2019.
Quality: The overall top quality is down as far as bucks above 215+. Even though there have been 4-6 bucks killed over 220” in the last couple of years. There are very few bucks that will reach that mark that are currently living on the unit. (Unless we get an unusual rain year)
Only 2 bucks last year broke that mark. Most of the top end bucks 195-205” have been getting killed each year for the last 4-5 years. It has made a lot of guides and locals wonder if it will hold up or if it’s going to crash like other units have in the past as far as top end quality.
Speaking with the wildlife biologist for this unit, there was a terrible fawn survival rate in both 2019 and 2020. Over 75% of the bucks during this years count were considered 3 years or older. With a low fawn survival rate, it’s believed that the overall size of the herd and quality will drop in the next 3-5 years.
Genetics: There are plenty of 160-180” deer on the unit. On a good rain year, most of the bucks will grow extras. Most bucks will usually have 22-24” main beams. It’s rare to find bucks with larger beams than that.
Very few deer will have a ton of width. Although a lot of bucks have bigger ears than what is the perceived normal. They also tend to have bigger bodies. We’ve killed plenty of bucks that we thought were 25” wide that ended up having a 28” spread main frame.
Not sure why but as of the last 5 years it seems that there have been far fewer bucks with spreads that reach the 30” mark.
Difficulty: It is an extremely physically demanding hunt. There is very little water in the unit. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of anyone killing a deer over a spring.
There really are only 3 roads on the entire unit that let you gain any elevation.
It’s hot, dry, rocky, nasty, and steep with plenty of rattlesnakes. It’s a constant up and down. There a few ridges that have a smooth incline.
There are plenty of glassing points. Good glass is worth its weight in gold as the deep burnt out canyons are hard to glass into.
Pressure: there are very few ridges that don’t have cameras on them. Don’t be surprised if you pack your stuff up to a camera spot that when you go to check it that there will probably be a camera or three around that same spot. The unit is relatively small. 80% of the unit was burned and most deer live in the burned areas where there is good feed. It’s turned into a once in a lifetime hunt and with less people having their own tags you will see a lot of people. Guides and spotters included.
Most people who are now applying for the unit understand this and get out and hike this unit during the archery and muzzy hunts. The deer rut early and will move a lot which usually leads to an easier rifle hunt with the deer moving to lower elevations.
The oak creek mtns are an amazing place. But contrary to what some other people
have posted earlier, It’s hard to turn up a 200” buck and even harder to kill it. 185-190 is doable but definitely not easy and when you see one it’s not a bad idea to take that buck.
I just deleted a three paragraph response to this comment and have decided to agree with you. You are right that no average hunter is going to scout this unit and find any 200" bucks to hunt and they definitely won't be finding a few of them (which I never stated to begin with even though they might could). Hell even a mighty flat-brimmed hunter won't locate yet even relocate a 180" buck because there are so many archery and muzzy hunters on this unit to push them around. Remind me how many archery and muzzy deer hunters are on this unit, 500, maybe 600? That's a lot of tag holders to push these deer around so that's one more reason not to try.This is where I disagree. Your average hunter that probably never has scouted that much in the past on other general hunts, is not going to show up on that unit and after a couple weekends before the hunt, find a few 200" bucks to go after. Even if they do find one, the odds of finding it again after the archery and muzzy hunters have pushed the deer around are very slim. Even on the oak creek. Comparing yourself to one of these average hunters that have never been on the oak creek is comparing apples and oranges.
Lol tell us we’re dumb, without telling us we’re dumb! ???? I completely missed the date of the OP.Are we really responding to a post from 2012??
No one is dumb, I was wondering if I missed something that re-sparked this old thread ? ?Lol tell us we’re dumb, without telling us we’re dumb! ???? I completely missed the date of the OP.
let me try this again. I drew that tag this year and was hoping to mostly hunt water. Any thoughts on how key water will be for archery? I understand the fires had to have transformed the hunting so I am gathering info.
Slam you defiantly missed the respark from GlunkerNo one is dumb, I was wondering if I missed something that re-sparked this old thread ? ?
Thanks Jake,Nope, that is how they used to do it, but last year or the year before they started giving the extra tag to the bonus pool.
Look at the resident side here.View attachment 76494
I never seen any formal literature or discussion about this change, just happened to notice it had happened. So the fact people still don't know does not surprise me.Thanks Jake,
I do like to learn every day and you took me to school today.
Zeke
Nice write up.The secret is out! ? The oak creek holds large mule deer. Here is my overview on the unit being a local and having spent a ton of time helping and guiding for the last 5 years.
The hay day years when tag numbers were low and overall buzz ? of the unit was kept fairly quiet. I’d say the best years were 2013-2019.
Quality: The overall top quality is down as far as bucks above 215+. Even though there have been 4-6 bucks killed over 220” in the last couple of years. There are very few bucks that will reach that mark that are currently living on the unit. (Unless we get an unusual rain year)
Only 2 bucks last year broke that mark. Most of the top end bucks 195-205” have been getting killed each year for the last 4-5 years. It has made a lot of guides and locals wonder if it will hold up or if it’s going to crash like other units have in the past as far as top end quality.
Speaking with the wildlife biologist for this unit, there was a terrible fawn survival rate in both 2019 and 2020. Over 75% of the bucks during this years count were considered 3 years or older. With a low fawn survival rate, it’s believed that the overall size of the herd and quality will drop in the next 3-5 years.
Genetics: There are plenty of 160-180” deer on the unit. On a good rain year, most of the bucks will grow extras. Most bucks will usually have 22-24” main beams. It’s rare to find bucks with larger beams than that.
Very few deer will have a ton of width. Although a lot of bucks have bigger ears than what is the perceived normal. They also tend to have bigger bodies. We’ve killed plenty of bucks that we thought were 25” wide that ended up having a 28” spread main frame.
Not sure why but as of the last 5 years it seems that there have been far fewer bucks with spreads that reach the 30” mark.
Difficulty: It is an extremely physically demanding hunt. There is very little water in the unit. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of anyone killing a deer over a spring.
There really are only 3 roads on the entire unit that let you gain any elevation.
It’s hot, dry, rocky, nasty, and steep with plenty of rattlesnakes. It’s a constant up and down. There a few ridges that have a smooth incline.
There are plenty of glassing points. Good glass is worth its weight in gold as the deep burnt out canyons are hard to glass into.
Pressure: there are very few ridges that don’t have cameras on them. Don’t be surprised if you pack your stuff up to a camera spot that when you go to check it that there will probably be a camera or three around that same spot. The unit is relatively small. 80% of the unit was burned and most deer live in the burned areas where there is good feed. It’s turned into a once in a lifetime hunt and with less people having their own tags you will see a lot of people. Guides and spotters included.
Most people who are now applying for the unit understand this and get out and hike this unit during the archery and muzzy hunts. The deer rut early and will move a lot which usually leads to an easier rifle hunt with the deer moving to lower elevations.
The oak creek mtns are an amazing place. But contrary to what some other people
have posted earlier, It’s hard to turn up a 200” buck and even harder to kill it. 185-190 is doable but definitely not easy and when you see one it’s not a bad idea to take that buck.
ProOutdoors??? ?If I drew that tag, I'd hire slamdunk to hire me a good guide.
It’s turned into a once in a lifetime hunt and with less people having their own tags you will see a lot of people. Guides and spotters included.
I'd borrow slams long range Lapua and shoot my buck from Holden, or sneak in close and shoot one from the Maverick parking lot in DeltaProOutdoors??? ?
But Could you put the Krispy Kreams down long enough to dope the wind?I'd borrow slams long range Lapua and shoot my buck from Holden, or sneak in close and shoot one from the Maverick parking lot in Delta
I'll gladly borrow it to you if you'd like, but I can only attest it's abilities to 100 yards on game.I'd borrow slams long range Lapua and shoot my buck from Holden, or sneak in close and shoot one from the Maverick parking lot in Delta
Don't let his fake picture fool you, he's no couch potato...... he's probably Cameron Hanes.But Could you put the Krispy Kreams down long enough to dope the wind?
No....but using dope and Krispy Kreme in the same sentence is giving me the munchiesBut Could you put the Krispy Kreams down long enough to dope the wind?
You talked me into it, I'm hitting the bong.No....but using dope and Krispy Kreme in the same sentence is giving me the munchies
Nope we are now discussing management, ethics, morals, and legalities on a post from 2012Are we really responding to a post from 2012??
Then this must be the longest post in MM history ?Nope we are now discussing management, ethics, morals, and legalities on a post from 2012
It will likely be refreshed yet again in 2032 when someone uses up their 36 L.E deer points...
36 points in 2032 will Probably get a guy a good shot at a book cliffs archery tag.It will likely be refreshed yet again in 2032 when someone uses up their 36 L.E deer points...
Amen to this post!I just don't get how anyone with any self respect would hire a guide unless it is mandatory like grizz or sheep in Alaska or a wilderness hunt in Wyoming. Don't people realize what they are getting into before they apply for a hunt?
I would rather kill a 160" buck on my own than a 210" deer that somebody else put me on. I'm not paying someone to sit at my campfire and definitely not someone I may not like or even get along with. Listen to how many guides out there talk about their hunts "I killed this buck or I got this buck" the hunter is an afterthought and doesn't usually get any respect which they probably don't deserve in the first place.
If you are going to hunt this unit all you need is a little time and some really good boots (ankle support and side armor) there are few trails and lots of loose rock, you will roll ankles without good boots. There are enough people that have hunted this unit who are willing to give you advice on the unit. Save the guide money for gas and good optics.
Living here and knowing what is possible I wouldn't shoot anything less than a 200" buck even up until the last day. I know I piss off a lot of locals by even talking about this unit but like my old Granny used to say "if they don't like it then Fugg 'em".
In 2032 we’ll be putting in for a chance to take a DNR tour through areas that held trophy class animals, hear the stories, and see the pic’s of all the extinct species that made the rich and flatty’s feel special on insta…36 points in 2032 will Probably get a guy a good shot at a book cliffs archery tag.
Watch Randy Newberg's hunt from a few years back... it ought to get you excited:I have drawn a NR deer tag for Fillmore Oak Creek. I cant wait!!! Any pictures of past bucks or info would be appreciated.
Talk about a prideful, self absorbed assessment. You should do whatever is good for you, and stop your judgement of others.I just don't get how anyone with any self respect would hire a guide unless it is mandatory like grizz or sheep in Alaska or a wilderness hunt in Wyoming. Don't people realize what they are getting into before they apply for a hunt?
I would rather kill a 160" buck on my own than a 210" deer that somebody else put me on. I'm not paying someone to sit at my campfire and definitely not someone I may not like or even get along with. Listen to how many guides out there talk about their hunts "I killed this buck or I got this buck" the hunter is an afterthought and doesn't usually get any respect which they probably don't deserve in the first place.
If you are going to hunt this unit all you need is a little time and some really good boots (ankle support and side armor) there are few trails and lots of loose rock, you will roll ankles without good boots. There are enough people that have hunted this unit who are willing to give you advice on the unit. Save the guide money for gas and good optics.
Living here and knowing what is possible I wouldn't shoot anything less than a 200" buck even up until the last day. I know I piss off a lot of locals by even talking about this unit but like my old Granny used to say "if they don't like it then Fugg 'em".
He’s got a point! ?Talk about a prideful, self absorbed assessment. You should do whatever is good for you, and stop your judgement of others.
Ever consider that everyone might not live in close proximity?
How about doesn’t have a Posse at their disposal all the time?
How about they have a demanding business or career, or family, and they don’t have the ample amount of time to scout?
Take a look around, and a little past the end of your own nose.