2012 Utah Big Game Application Guidebook

[Amy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-11 AT 01:26PM (MST)[p]We've just posted the near-final draft of the Utah Big Game Application Guidebook at http://go.usa.gov/5t2. Please take a look and let me know if you have questions or see something that doesn't look right. We'll have a brief window to correct any problems before the proof goes back to the printer next week.

One important note: We're still getting some of the maps, hunt tables and other content posted on the DWR website. That will be done by the time the book is printed. For now, though, please be patient if you don't see the Web content you expect to see. Thanks!

Amy Canning
Communication Specialist
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Hey Amy!

You'll remember my generous TIPPAGE this year right?



Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[one_dryboot]

ShowMeToThem,

The Dwr is smrtr then we think. They know that if they pull your name this year, your done tippin. So they gently tuck your name away for safe keeping for a few more years.

 

[Huntmaster]

First thing I see is a dink picture of a mule deer on the front cover. Is that the best picture the DWR can get of a buck in Utah? I have some good ones I will sell to you. Just my first thoughts. Haven't even started reading yet On the bright side, If thats the biggest deer we have in Utah, there may be a lot less applicants this year and better odds. Good thinking DWR. I take my comment back, and I like the way you are thinking.

 

[Huntmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 00:13AM (MST)[p]pm sent

 

[Huntmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-11 AT 11:25PM (MST)[p]PM Sent

 

[theox]

i would have to agree that pic is pretty discouraging. not even exciting to look at i would say bad marketing right there! Thats like dunkin donuts using a moldy old stale looking donut to advertise their product.

 

[theox]

AMY
I have a question.
On the book cliffs BISON hunt it says agency draw... what does agency draw mean?

 

[theox]

amy pm sent

 

[SWAGshootn]

You guys are amazing......

Put a photo of a small buck on the cover and you are all depressed.

Put a photo of a monster buck and everyone would say "doesnt exist in Utah"

Amazing. Simply Amazing. But it makes me smile.

 

[Trix4me]

1+

 

[theox]

swag who complained about a big buck on front?? i mean come on a ugly little crabby 3 pt on the cover

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Hey wet_boot!

I've had my name tucked away long enough!

And HuntMaster!

I think you shot the last big Utah Buck,so it's your fault for the PISSCUTTER on the front cover!

The DWR is just being Honest,that is a Utah Trophy Now Days!


>ShowMeToThem,
>
> The
>Dwr is smrtr then we
>think. They know that
>if they pull your name
>this year, your done tippin.
> So they gently
>tuck your name away for
>safe keeping for a few
>more years.


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[travishunter3006]

did they do away with the buck bull combo hunt?



It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)

 

[Huntmaster]

I think they are promoting the new management buck hunts with the cover photo. Makes more sense. Agency is an area in the book cliffs for the other question that was asked.

 

[Huntmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 05:59PM (MST)[p]Yip, from what I read buck bull, done.

 

[msy]

No more shorter seasons on the struggling units either. Guess they'll just cut more tags from those areas.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Well?

Did anybody think one short season for one year in the NE Region was gonna fix everything?

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[tailchasers]

The dwr only did that for one year cuz we were stealing your deer away. We got all the pisscutters we needed this past year so next year they can revert back to the longer season. Just being neighborly.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up any way."

 

[Amy]

I've responded to your PMs, Huntmaster. If the links I sent didn't work, please let me know.

I've also responded to your PM, theox. All the 2012 maps (for all hunts) should be online by the time the printed guidebook is available.

Now for the questions:
1. As Huntmaster pointed out, "Agency draw" is just the name of an area in the Book Cliffs. (That was also a bit of a surprise for those of us on the guidebook-review committee who weren't familiar with the area.) We didn't want anyone to get confused and think it had anything to do with the permit drawing.

2. And yes, the buck/bull combo hunt has been discontinued.

A note about the cover: We moved to a smaller-size guidebook a few years ago, and it has been tricky to find photos/art that will fit the reduced dimensions. We generally like the smaller books, but once you factor in all of the words that have to be on the front, there's not much room left for the image. This is the only place I've heard comments about the cover art, but I guess it makes sense when you consider we're on MonsterMuleys. I'll forward your comments to our designer, but I think we'll likely be sticking with this photo. In the meantime, please don't judge the book solely by its cover. ;-)

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Uh Amy???

Can I get an answer Please?

You got sleepin Habits like mine or what?



Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[ShowThemToMe]

"DON'T JUDGE THE BOOK BY LOOKING AT THE COVER" By Hank Jr is one of my Favorites Amy,You ever heard Hank sing it?


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[Castnshoot]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 12:09PM (MST)[p]Thanks Amy
I submitted this photo for the cover. He is still alive living on BLM land. The cover should have a deer on it that is still available for the up coming season and give a prize for the hunter who harvests him. The fence symbolizes all the new units. One quick jump and he is out of your unit.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

That's a Colorado Buck that knows the boundaries!

Our TARDville Bucks will be the same way in a couple of years!

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[Amy]

>Uh Amy???
>
>Can I get an answer Please?
>
>
>You got sleepin Habits like mine
>or what?
>

Is that you, Bess? What's with all of the username changes? You've probably had three or four in just the past couple of years.

And to answer your first question, we already discussed "tippage" the last time you brought it up. I've never received any money from you, nor would I be allowed to accept it if you sent it. (And there's the fact that no one here has any ability to influence what names the drawing server selects.) Now, stop already!

Second question: Yes, I have lousy sleeping habits. And the middle of the night is quiet and uninterrupted. It's a good time to write and have things make sense.

Last question: Nope, I haven't listened to Hank Jr.'s song. When it comes to music, I'll take rock-n-roll over country in a heartbeat.

 

[Amy]

PMs sent to both Huntmaster and brutus. Thanks for your questions!

 

[sled_guy]

So for the youth, if they draw a muzzy or archery they can't hunt all 3? They have to draw a rifle tag to hunt all 3?

sled_guy

 

[Amy]

>So for the youth, if they
>draw a muzzy or archery
>they can't hunt all 3?
> They have to draw
>a rifle tag to hunt
>all 3?
>
>sled_guy


Yes, a rifle permit is the only one that allows youth to hunt all three seasons.

 

[sled_guy]

I'll freely admit this might be a dumb question...

So if there are only 30 units why are there several with a/b/c?

sled_guy

 

[Amy]

>I'll freely admit this might be
>a dumb question...
>
>So if there are only 30
>units why are there several
>with a/b/c?
>
>sled_guy

It's not dumb at all, sled_guy, and it's something we debated heavily as we worked on the guidebook.

Some of the 30 units are made up of subunits. Those are the subunits that we've used to manage deer for decades. And all of our historic deer-harvest data is tied to those subunits.

This might explain it better: look at pages 13?14 of the Utah Big Game Annual Report for 2009. You'll see the unit number and name on the far left, followed by the subunit letter and name. All of the historic data is broken down this way. If we'd renumbered all of the units (to be just a single number), people would have had to go to a lot more work to figure out which subunits they contained. (At least the people who wanted to look at harvest data from previous years.) I hope this answered your question.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Well Hot Damn Amy!

You just blowed my cover!

Oh I did send the Tippage,but I guess you didn't get it,Nevada Game & Fish must be eating Lunch on Me or Gambling with it?

So you're up in the night kinda like me huh Amy?

That's a good song,gotta listen to the Hank Jr version though!

So Amy?

When I fill my application out this year I'm gonna put your name in the box: Ms Amy Canning
We'd mail the Application in an Envelope from the UDWR!

With That & my 16 Points I should be a Shoe-In for the Permit,Then maybe with a little white-out & some help from you We should be able to make everything look valid!

And just think Amy,after we pull this off we could make a movie about how the ole cat finally pulled the LE Permit off,bet the movie would be a money maker Amy,What'ya think?



>>Uh Amy???
>>
>>Can I get an answer Please?
>>
>>
>>You got sleepin Habits like mine
>>or what?
>>
>
>Is that you, Bess? What's with
>all of the username changes?
>You've probably had three or
>four in just the past
>couple of years.
>
>And to answer your first question,
>we already discussed "tippage" the
>last time you brought it
>up. I've never received any
>money from you, nor would
>I be allowed to accept
>it if you sent it.
>(And there's the fact that
>no one here has any
>ability to influence what names
>the drawing server selects.) Now,
>stop already!
>
>Second question: Yes, I have lousy
>sleeping habits. And the middle
>of the night is quiet
>and uninterrupted. It's a good
>time to write and have
>things make sense.
>
>Last question: Nope, I haven't listened
>to Hank Jr.'s song. When
>it comes to music, I'll
>take rock-n-roll over country in
>a heartbeat.


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[sled_guy]

Ok, sort of...

Let's use real data from the Draft guidebook. I have property in 16A. But to the east and south is 12/16B/16C.

In the hunt tables it lists Hunt # 1534 as 16A so I suppose I put in for that. But if I draw that can I also hunt 16B/16C? What will be the thing I enter on the app? The Hunt# or Unit#?

What the heck is the relationship between Hunt# and Unit#?

Very confusing.

sled_guy

 

[grizzly]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11 AT 11:21AM (MST)[p]Thanks for the info, Amy. We really do appreciate your being around to answer questions/concerns when they come up.

Grizzly

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

Amy I heard somewhere that if you dont draw your first choise but draw your second on deer, you will get a piont and the tag! is that true?

 

[Amy]

>Ok, sort of...
>
>Let's use real data from the
>Draft guidebook. I have
>property in 16A. But
>to the east and south
>is 12/16B/16C.
>
>In the hunt tables it lists
>Hunt # 1534 as 16A
>so I suppose I put
>in for that. But
>if I draw that can
>I also hunt 16B/16C?
>What will be the thing
>I enter on the app?
> The Hunt# or Unit#?
>
>
>What the heck is the relationship
>between Hunt# and Unit#?
>
>Very confusing.
>
>sled_guy

It might be easier if you look at the map and the hunt tables at the same time. Unit 16A is a different one than Unit 12/16B/16C. So, if you drew a permit for 16A, that is the only unit you would be able to hunt. You would not be able to hunt in Unit 12/16B/16C.

I don't know exactly what the application will look like, but my guess is that it will list both the hunt number and the unit number (to match the guidebook). Once you're in the app, it should be very clear what the options are.

As far as the relationship between hunt numbers and unit numbers: the hunt numbers are assigned each year to a specific unit/area, weapon type and season. The hunt numbers are likely to change from year to year because we add and eliminate hunts.

The unit numbers are new in the guidebook this year. We've only listed them for limited-entry and general-season deer, and they correspond to the numbers on the map on pages 26-27. The unit numbers will not likely change from year to year.

 

[Amy]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-11
>AT 11:21?AM (MST)
>
>Thanks for the info, Amy.
>We really do appreciate your
>being around to answer questions/concerns
>when they come up.
>
>Grizzly

No problem, Grizzly. Glad I can help!

 

[Amy]

>Amy I heard somewhere that if
>you dont draw your first
>choise but draw your second
>on deer, you will get
>a piont and the tag!
>is that true?

It is true. On page 20 of the guidebook, you'll find the explanation:

Draw a permit, receive a preference point
If you hunt general-season buck deer, it's worth your time to mark more than just your first hunt choice when applying for a permit.

If you aren't successful in drawing your first choice?but you draw your second, third, fourth or fifth choice?you will still receive a preference point.

For example, if you choose the Monroe unit
as your first choice and the Cache unit as your second choice, and then you draw a permit for the Cache unit (your second choice), you will receive a preference point.

If you draw your first choice, you will not receive a preference point.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Amy?

Did you see Post # 30?

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[Amy]

>Amy?
>
>Did you see Post # 30?
>
>
>Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
>

I did, STTM. You asked for my thoughts on your plan? My initial thought is that the lack of sleep has taken its toll. ;-)

 

[Camper_A1]

Amy,

Why did they do away with the draw for unfilled dedicated hunter permits? Who made the decision, it looks like we keep losing incentives to join.

 

[VolunteerProgram]

>Amy,
>
>Why did they do away with
>the draw for unfilled dedicated
>hunter permits? Who made the
>decision, it looks like we
>keep losing incentives to join.
>


Camper_A1
I'm Rhianna Christopher, the Dedicated Hunter Program Coordinator. Amy let me know about your question and asked that I address it.

The Dedicated Hunter limited-entry drawing was discontinued as a compromise to keep the structure of the Dedicated Hunter Program as intact as possible. The fact that we were able to maintain a three-year program in which Dedicated Hunters are guaranteed the opportunity to hunt all general seasons in their drawn unit is a great victory for hunters interested in the program. The alternatives included discontinuing the program altogether or changing it to a one-year program where the only benefit would have been to hunt all general seasons.

The limited-entry permits that were once allocated to the Dedicated Hunter Program will now be available in the public drawing, so you will still have the opportunity to apply for them. The move to unit-based hunting has required some compromises, and this was just one of very few compromises for the Dedicated Hunter Program.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Sincerely,
Rhianna Christopher
Dedicated Hunter Program Coordinator

 

[bragabit]

Amy,
How will the draw process work for the general deer hunts. Are all applicants first choices looked at before any applicants second choices? All second choices before any third? and so on through all choices.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

>>Amy?
>>
>>Did you see Post # 30?
>>
>>
>>Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
>>
>
>I did, STTM. You asked for
>my thoughts on your plan?
>My initial thought is that
>the lack of sleep has
>taken its toll. ;-)

You might be on to somethin Amy!

So Amy?

You Hunt & Fish?

Do you Play the Points Game?

I'm gonna Pre-Thank you for the up-coming help I need in the Draw!


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[Rackster]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-11 AT 08:44AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-11 AT 08:42?AM (MST)

Rhianna,

Here is another Dedicated hunter question. If you put in for the 20% of Dedicated Hunter permits in 2012 for a unit, and if you do not draw, is your name (number) thrown back into the pool for that unit with everyone else (for the rest of the permits for that unit)? Or is it that if you do not draw one of the Dedicated hunter permits, then that was it for you? In other words, if you put in for the Dedicated Hunter permit for a unit and you dont't draw the dedicated hunter permit, then are you SOL for drawing a permit in that unit? Also, the drawing order on page 15 of the Draft Guidebook, I did not see where the 20% of Dedicated Hunter tags are included in the order. Where do these fit in the drawing order? How is it going to work?

I have the same question about the 15% of youth tags. If a youth puts in for one of those and does not draw, is their name thrown back into the pool with everyone else for the remaining permits for the unit? or if they do not draw one of the 15% youth tags, are they then SOL?

 

[Camper_A1]

Rhianna,

Thank you for your answer, I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Amy]

>Amy,
>How will the draw process work
>for the general deer hunts.
>Are all applicants first choices
>looked at before any applicants
>second choices? All second
>choices before any third?
>and so on through all
>choices.

Nope, it works a bit differently. Preference points play a role in how the general-season deer drawing occurs. The drawing starts with the highest preference point level. Just as an example, let's say the highest level is seven preference points. The drawing checks each applicant at that level to see what their first choice is. After all the first choices have been handled at that level, it looks at the second choices for everyone who has seven points. After all the second choices have been considered, it looks at their third choices, and so on.

After all five choices have been considered for the seven-point group, the drawing moves to the next-highest level (those with six preference points, in this example), and begins the process again. The same sequence continues through each point level until all the permits are issued.

We're currently working on a more detailed explanation of the drawing process that we plan to post on our website over the next couple of weeks. It will be online by the time the printed guidebooks are available.

 

[Amy]

>
>So Amy?
>
>You Hunt & Fish?
>
>Do you Play the Points Game?
>
>

I've fished for years, and I hunted for the first time this fall. The pheasants got away (I'm a pretty bad shot), but it was sure fun to get out and walk the fields.

 

[VolunteerProgram]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-11
>AT 08:44?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-11
>AT 08:42?AM (MST)
>
>Rhianna,
>
>Here is another Dedicated hunter question.
> If you put in
>for the 20% of Dedicated
>Hunter permits in 2012 for
>a unit, and if you
>do not draw, is your
>name (number) thrown back into
>the pool for that unit
>with everyone else (for the
>rest of the permits for
>that unit)? Or is
>it that if you do
>not draw one of the
>Dedicated hunter permits, then that
>was it for you?
>In other words, if you
>put in for the Dedicated
>Hunter permit for a unit
>and you dont't draw the
>dedicated hunter permit, then are
>you SOL for drawing a
>permit in that unit?
>Also, the drawing order on
>page 15 of the Draft
>Guidebook, I did not see
>where the 20% of Dedicated
>Hunter tags are included in
>the order. Where do
>these fit in the drawing
>order? How is it
>going to work?
>
>I have the same question about
>the 15% of youth tags.
> If a youth puts
>in for one of those
>and does not draw, is
>their name thrown back into
>the pool with everyone else
>for the remaining permits for
>the unit? or if
>they do not draw one
>of the 15% youth tags,
>are they then SOL?
>

Rackster,
First, only 15% of permits will be allocated to the Dedicated Hunter Program (after Lifetime License Holders).

The answer to your question really depends on what you apply for. If you apply for the Dedicated Hunter Program AND a general season permit you will have a couple different opportunities to draw whatever unit(s) you put on your application. We won't automatically put you in for the general season permit. You actually have to apply for it just like any other permit.

Dedicated Hunters will be drawn in the buck deer category which comes before all other species. It should be very clear to you when the application opens and you apply.

Rhianna

 

[Rackster]

OK,

Thanks Rhianna.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

>>
>>So Amy?
>>
>>You Hunt & Fish?
>>
>>Do you Play the Points Game?
>>
>>
>
>I've fished for years, and I
>hunted for the first time
>this fall. The pheasants got
>away (I'm a pretty bad
>shot), but it was sure
>fun to get out and
>walk the fields.

Well Amy!

Sounds like you'll be huntin Big Game next year!

Sometimes a Gal has to be broken in Gently!

First Fishin!

Then Small Game!

Then Big Game!

Soon as you get in to the Points/Big Game you'll sound like me,kiddin!

Won't be long & I'll be sending my Big Game Application in Amy,can you send me your address again,wanna make sure you get the Tippage & have you make the propper adjustments for me!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[doublelungem]

When will the Guidebook be available to pick up in stores? Thanks

 

[Amy]

>When will the Guidebook be available
>to pick up in stores?
>Thanks

With the holidays factored in, the guidebook (and the big accompanying map) should be in stores by the first or second week of January.

 

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-11 AT 08:50PM (MST)[p]Rhianna,
Will applying for the Dedicated Hunter Program be considered your "first choice"?
Is the Dedicated Hunter drawing seperate from the general season drawing?
Are there Dedicated Hunter tags set aside for the youth?

 

[bragabit]

Amy,
Thanks for clarifying about the draw process. One more quick question. If two applicants have 0 points, will the first one drawn get all of their choices get considered before any of the second one drawn choices?

 

[mtntophunter]

Amy,
I have a couple of questions for a Non-Resident

1. The General Deer Hunt is there a tag limit for each unit or is it open tags?

2. I have 2 bonus points...can I use them for the general deer hunts or are they just for LE and/or Once in a Lifetime Hunts?

Thank you,

Mark-

 

[VolunteerProgram]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-11
>AT 08:50?PM (MST)
>
>Rhianna,
>Will applying for the Dedicated Hunter
>Program be considered your "first
>choice"?
>Is the Dedicated Hunter drawing seperate
>from the general season drawing?
>
>Are there Dedicated Hunter tags set
>aside for the youth?

The Dedicated Hunter portion of the application is a newly added menu item and not the same as applying for a general season permit. Your first choice in the DH Program portion of the draw is NOT considered your first choice in the general season portion. There is an order in which general season deer permits will be drawn and Dedicated Hunter is just another part of that order.

So, if you don't draw a DH COR for the unit(s) you put on your application then you'll move into the general season portion - if you applied in both.

The Dedicated Hunter Program does not have COR's set aside for youth or non-residents or any other special interest groups. Everyone applies on the same playing field.

I hope this helps answer your questions. If not, feel free to call me directly.

Rhianna Christopher
Dedicated Hunter Program Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources

 

[bragabit]

>Amy,
>How will the draw process work
>for the general deer hunts.
>Are all applicants first choices
>looked at before any applicants
>second choices? All second
>choices before any third?
>and so on through all
>choices.
Nope, it works a bit differently. Preference points play a role in how the general-season deer drawing occurs. The drawing starts with the highest preference point level. Just as an example, let's say the highest level is seven preference points. The drawing checks each applicant at that level to see what their first choice is. After all the first choices have been handled at that level, it looks at the second choices for everyone who has seven points. After all the second choices have been considered, it looks at their third choices, and so on.

After all five choices have been considered for the seven-point group, the drawing moves to the next-highest level (those with six preference points, in this example), and begins the process again. The same sequence continues through each point level until all the permits are issued.

We're currently working on a more detailed explanation of the drawing process that we plan to post on our website over the next couple of weeks. It will be online by the time the printed guidebooks are available.

Amy,

I have been thinking about this procedure. It is different than any process used by other states. If this is correct, then if someone has 3 or 4 points going into this draw. They can purposely not draw first choice tags, draw their second and keep their points and guarantee themselves tags for years to come. This is especially true if they are allowed to apply for a preference point first choice then draw second choice. They would be able to hunt the best units every year and build preference points. They would always have the most points and never use them.

 

[Amy]

>Amy,
>Thanks for clarifying about the draw
>process. One more quick
>question. If two applicants
>have 0 points, will the
>first one drawn get all
>of their choices get considered
>before any of the second
>one drawn choices?

I'm not sure about this, bragabit, and I also saw your follow-up concern about preference points. I'm out of the office right now, but I'll forward your question to some of our customer service people and see if I can track down an answer/explanation.

 

[Amy]

>Amy,
>I have a couple of questions
>for a Non-Resident
>
>1. The General Deer Hunt is
>there a tag limit for
>each unit or is it
>open tags?
>
>2. I have 2 bonus points...can
>I use them for the
>general deer hunts or are
>they just for LE and/or
>Once in a Lifetime Hunts?
>
>
>Thank you,
>Mark-

Thanks for your questions, Mark. There will be a set number of general-season deer permits (both resident and nonresident) for each unit. The Utah Wildlife Board will set those numbers in the spring of 2012. And, you cannot use bonus points for the general-season deer hunts. They are only for the limited-entry and once-in-a-lifetime hunts.

 

[Amy]

>If two applicants
>have 0 points, will the
>first one drawn get all
>of their choices get considered
>before any of the second
>one drawn choices?

I heard back from one of our licensing specialists about this. If we're understanding your question correctly, the answer is no. At the "zero" points level, the drawing looks at the first choice for every person in that level before looking at any of their second choices.

 

[Amy]

>I have been thinking about this
>procedure. It is different
>than any process used by
>other states. If this
>is correct, then if
>someone has 3 or 4
>points going into this draw.
> They can purposely not
>draw first choice tags, draw
>their second and keep their
>points and guarantee themselves tags
>for years to come.
>This is especially true if
>they are allowed to apply
>for a preference point first
>choice then draw second choice.
> They would be able
>to hunt the best units
>every year and build preference
>points. They would always
>have the most points and
>never use them.

Just to clarify: The drawing will not let you apply for a preference point and a general-season deer hunt at the same time.

I checked with our licensing/customer service team and there is no way you could have 3-4 preference points and then purposefully not draw your first choice. (You would have to know that there were more applicants than permits for the hunt, and you'd have to know that they all had more preference points than you did.) No one knows those things or manipulates the process in the way you described. Eventually, you would earn enough points to draw your first choice.

In fact, with 3-4 points, you would almost always draw your first choice and then return to zero points the next year. If there is a popular hunt that requires more than 4 points to draw, then you earn a point by not getting your first choice, and you may still have the opportunity to hunt a second (or later) choice. I hope this clears things up!

 

[bragabit]

Thanks Amy for clarifying the process. I am just trying to figure out this new system. I appreciate all of your help.
I am not trying to be difficult here, But this system still seams to be flawed.
Scenerio:
1 applicant applies with 2 points for rifle first choice and bow second.
1 applicant applies with 1 point for same unit for bow first choice.

The applicant with 2 points doesn't draw first choice, but draws second choice bow tag ahead of guy with 1 point and still gains a preference point. Guy with 1 point doesn't draw and is still behind guy with 2 for next year.

It doesn't seem right for someone to draw second choice ahead of someones first choice and still gain a point. I agree we need preference points, but feel they should only be used for first choice. This is just my opinion, and thanks for listening and for the help.

 

[Bessiesgrandson]

Amy,
A question I have is about the issuing of Landowner tags. We are in the Zion unit. Will landowners be issued the same number of tags as we have in the past?



"Too Soon We Reach the Finish Line, and Too Late We
Find the Joy is in the Running"

 

[NoBark]

WOW, impressive. You actually have department personel interacting with the public in a forum???????? Never happen
in my home state.

 

[Amy]

>Amy,
> A question I
>have is about the issuing
>of Landowner tags. We are
>in the Zion unit. Will
>landowners be issued the same
>number of tags as we
>have in the past?

As in the past, landowner permits for general-season deer will be available from DWR regional offices on a first-come, first-served basis. If you qualify for a permit, it will only be valid for the unit in which you own land. If you own land in more than one unit, you must select the unit you want to hunt.

With that said, I'm not sure about the number of permits that will be available. My guess is that the Wildlife Board will set those numbers this spring, along with the other big game numbers. I'll check on it when I'm back in the office and let you know what I find out.

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

I hope you have a Merry christmas Amy and thanks for all the help you give us!

 

[Amy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-11 AT 02:32PM (MST)[p]>I hope you have a Merry
>christmas Amy and thanks for
>all the help you give
>us!

Thanks very much! I hope you and everyone else here on MM have a great Christmas and a very happy new year!

 

[elkun]

mery xmas. amy. from all .......

 

[goatroper]

Amy
have a great New Year!
Man hope this does not ruin DRAW ODDS(for gen tag because prem's are so long to draw) as a non resi hunter!
(I also have 1 pref point! ,12 bonus pts)
Qustion AMY:
if I draw my Pauns tag(as a premium tag) and put in for Gen Buck also,...do I get my pref point? ..NON RESIDENT HUNTER
gr

 

[why]

thanks amy

 

[greysriver]

When is Utah going to simply divide the entire state up into units vs. the limited entry units vs. general season unit etc. Just divide it up, and call the entire state a draw (which it already is). Utah has always muddied up everything trying to do their own thing. If we just called the entire state by units, the bonus point creep could possibly drop because those guys waiting for a henries/pauns/books etc. tags would not be able to hunt Utah until they drew, or simply put in for a unit that they had a chance to draw.

 

[never_catch]

Amy, pm sent.

~Z~

 

[prn]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-11 AT 07:33PM (MST)[p]Edit

 

[prn]

>Thanks Amy for clarifying the process.
> I am just trying
>to figure out this new
>system. I appreciate all
>of your help.
>I am not trying to be
>difficult here, But this system
>still seams to be flawed.
>
>Scenerio:
>1 applicant applies with 2 points
>for rifle first choice and
>bow second.
>1 applicant applies with 1 point
>for same unit for bow
>first choice.
>
>The applicant with 2 points doesn't
>draw first choice, but draws
>second choice bow tag ahead
>of guy with 1 point
>and still gains a preference
>point. Guy with 1
>point doesn't draw and is
>still behind guy with 2
>for next year.
>
>It doesn't seem right for someone
>to draw second choice ahead
>of someones first choice and
>still gain a point.
>I agree we need preference
>points, but feel they should
>only be used for first
>choice. This is just
>my opinion, and thanks for
>listening and for the help.
>

You're exactly right about this. It worked the same way in Wyoming (I used it to my advantage to get a great tag and keep my points). After it was discovered Wyoming changed the way the draw and only give you a point advantage on your first choice. My guess is Utah will discover this flaw after a couple years and change it. It's amazing to me that every time a state changes the way they do things, they don't look at what has already failed somewhere else. Everyone is always trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Amy]

>>Amy,
>> A question I
>>have is about the issuing
>>of Landowner tags. We are
>>in the Zion unit. Will
>>landowners be issued the same
>>number of tags as we
>>have in the past?

I checked on this, Bessiesgrandson, and it sounds like we won't be recommending any changes to the number of landowner permits that are available at the regional offices.

 

[mtntophunter]

Amy--Happy New Year

2-Part Question

1st Part-
As a Non-Resident Can I apply for the General Hunt and still apply for the Premium-LE hunts?

2nd Part-
If I do recieve a General Hunt Tag do I still get a bonus point?

Thank You,

Mark-

 

[Amy]

PM sent, never_catch. I also responded to the one from dz.

 

[Amy]

>Amy
>have a great New Year!
>Man hope this does not ruin
>DRAW ODDS(for gen tag because
>prem's are so long to
>draw) as a non resi
>hunter!
>(I also have 1 pref point!
>,12 bonus pts)
>Qustion AMY:
>if I draw my Pauns tag(as
>a premium tag) and put
>in for Gen Buck also,...do
>I get my pref point?
>..NON RESIDENT HUNTER
>gr

Thanks for the question, goatroper. Yes, in the scenario you described, if you draw the premium limited-entry permit (using those 12 bonus points) and you also put in for a general-season permit, you will receive a preference point. (Because you won't draw the general-season permit after drawing a premium limited-entry permit.)

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Amy!

Have you checked any of the other Threads?


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[Amy]

>Amy--Happy New Year
>
>2-Part Question
>
>1st Part-
>As a Non-Resident Can I apply
>for the General Hunt and
>still apply for the Premium-LE
>hunts?
>
>2nd Part-
>If I do recieve a General
>Hunt Tag do I still
>get a bonus point?
>
>Thank You,
>
>Mark-

Happy New Year to you too, Mark! Here are the answers to your questions:

Part 1: Yes, as a nonresident, you can apply for both the general-season deer hunt and the premium limited-entry hunts. You earn a preference point when you apply for a general-season buck permit but don't draw one. Likewise, you earn a bonus point when you apply for (but don't draw) a premium limited-entry, limited-entry, management buck, CWMU or once-in-a-lifetime permit. Bonus points and preference points are explained in detail on pages 19-20 of the 2012 Utah Big Game Application guidebook.

Part 2: If you draw a general-season buck permit, you will only receive a bonus point if you also applied for one of the limited-entry hunts.

I hope this helps!
Amy

 

[mtntophunter]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Uh Amy?

Can you hear me?




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[TRC]

I have a question. How do you tell how many tags are available for each unit? I am wondering about the general bow hunt units. Thanks for any info anyone has.

TRC

 

[hornkiller]

Amy are they going to have just one hunt for bison on the bookcliffs bull/cow?

 

[bragabit]

>Thanks Amy for clarifying the process.
> I am just trying
>to figure out this new
>system. I appreciate all
>of your help.
>I am not trying to be
>difficult here, But this system
>still seams to be flawed.
>
>Scenerio:
>1 applicant applies with 2 points
>for rifle first choice and
>bow second.
>1 applicant applies with 1 point
>for same unit for bow
>first choice.
>
>The applicant with 2 points doesn't
>draw first choice, but draws
>second choice bow tag ahead
>of guy with 1 point
>and still gains a preference
>point. Guy with 1
>point doesn't draw and is
>still behind guy with 2
>for next year.
>
>It doesn't seem right for someone
>to draw second choice ahead
>of someones first choice and
>still gain a point.
>I agree we need preference
>points, but feel they should
>only be used for first
>choice. This is just
>my opinion, and thanks for
>listening and for the help.
>
You're exactly right about this. It worked the same way in Wyoming (I used it to my advantage to get a great tag and keep my points). After it was discovered Wyoming changed the way the draw and only give you a point advantage on your first choice. My guess is Utah will discover this flaw after a couple years and change it. It's amazing to me that every time a state changes the way they do things, they don't look at what has already failed somewhere else. Everyone is always trying to reinvent the wheel.

Amy, I hope the state will revisit the way they are proposing to doing the draw process.

 

[Amy]

Thanks for the question, TRC. The Utah Wildlife Board will decide on final permit numbers?for both the Big Game and Antlerless hunts?in May 2012. We are putting together an online resource center for the DWR website that will have information you can use to narrow down what units you may want to apply for. It should be online later this month, and I'll post a note here as soon as it's available.

 

[Amy]

>Amy are they going to have
>just one hunt for bison
>on the bookcliffs bull/cow?

Yes, there is only one 2012 bison hunt planned for the Book Cliffs (see page 47 of the guidebook). It's a hunter's choice hunt (either bull or cow), and the Utah Wildlife Board will set permit numbers in May 2012. The hunt dates are Dec. 1, 2012?Jan. 31, 2013.

 

[Amy]

>You're exactly right about this. It
>worked the same way in
>Wyoming (I used it to
>my advantage to get a
>great tag and keep my
>points). After it was discovered
>Wyoming changed the way the
>draw and only give you
>a point advantage on your
>first choice. My guess is
>Utah will discover this flaw
>after a couple years and
>change it. It's amazing to
>me that every time a
>state changes the way they
>do things, they don't look
>at what has already failed
>somewhere else. Everyone is always
>trying to reinvent the wheel.
>
>
>Amy, I hope the state will
>revisit the way they are
>proposing to doing the draw
>process.

This preference point process/opportunity isn't new. It's been in place in Utah since the 2009 season, and we've had virtually no negative feedback about it. If hunters don't draw their first choice one year, then they draw it within a year or two (and in the meantime, they still get a chance to hunt). As soon as they draw their first choice, they go back to zero points and start over again. If you think the process needs to be changed, I recommend sharing your concerns with your local RAC members. You can find a list of RAC members' names on the DWR website, and the RAC meetings are the first step in getting any wildlife policy or process changed.

 

[Mutley]

Amy,
Thanks for your great help. I have just one question and I apologize if has already been answered. For example on the Central Mountain unit, there are three unit numbers. Is it three separate hunts/regions? Or is it just one unit?