223 for deer

[aepadil]

have a question is a 223 to small for deer, if my son draws want to buy him a savage axis 223 what do think

 

[hornhunter247]

IMHO yes it's to small, but it would be capable of putting deer sized game down with proper shot placement. Just doesn't leave you any room for error. 243 is a great deer caliber for youths. And easier to find ammo for as well. My 7 year old son shoots a 243 and can shoot it great out to 150 yards.


I just call em as I see em!

 

[lovehunting]

how old is your son? Started my at 10 with a 7mm-08 great rifle he loved it and still uses it, he is now 17. He has killed both deer and elk with it.

 

[RioHuntNutt]

.223 is plenty good enough for deer. With the great ammo offered today , and being disciplined enough to keep shots in the 200 yard range , a .223 will easily work for your son. Yes there will be more people to come on and say things like ethical and not big enough etc, but the fact is dead is dead and the .223 is dang sure lethal enough to successfully and ethically kill a deer.

I was faced with this as my daughter is pretty small framed,but we found a great Remington 700 youth model in .243 at Walmart for $417.00.This little gun shoots great and recoil is nothing for her, I would look into it if ya can....Best of luck.

 

[SweetBull]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is illegal in NM to hunt big game with anything below a .243 caliber

 

[dmaxarchr]

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but
>I think it is illegal
>in NM to hunt big
>game with anything below a
>.243 caliber


for deer you can use any centerfire rifle or handgun. for elk on the other hand you can use any centerfire rifle or handgun 24 caliber or bigger.

 

[AlleninNM]

If you reload, a 7mm-08 might give you more options. I use light loads for my 9 y/o daughter to practice with. (110 grain bullet at about 2300 fps) Then full loads when shooting at animals. She doesn't notice the difference when the time comes. Even if you don't reload, I hear good things about Remington and Hornady's reduce recoil loads.

 

[Trad Bow 1979]

Part of me thinks that yes the 223 is on the small side for deer. But then again, the military uses that round on people quite well. I would say Haji weighs about the same as a common mule deer.

 

[aepadil]

sweetbull its only for elk deer is any centerfire

 

[aepadil]

my son is 9 but he is tall but thin and i have a 243 and love it but i dont want him to be afraid to shoot he is deadon with a 22

 

[NMHUNTER]

I killed my first 3 deer with a 222. With good shot placement he will be fine. But as others have said a 243 would be a little better choice.

 

[dang302]

It could work, but its a sure handicap. I would do it to win a bet and prove that it worked, but I do have other guns so no real reason to use a 223 on deer. Keep in mind that a 243 is more than a slight increase over the 223, ITS DOUBLE. 100 grain bullet vs 55 with similar velocity. Thats a significant difference.

The more that I think about it, I would not use the 223 on mule deer. My mind was thinking that it is marginal at best on antelope and couse deer sized animals. I have in the past advocated that the 22-250 is sufficient for antelope...so the 223 is too, but a mule deer is 2-3 times that size.

My final answer: NO

 

[BRUIN4L]

Get him at LEAST a .243. The kick is minimal and any kid who is truly into hunting will have no problem with it. I started my son on a .257 and he went on to a .300 soon after and he is a thin kid. All your doing is wasting money unless you want to have a .223 in the future.

 

[Gator]

Hell I thought you meant that how much a deer tag cost this year.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[aepadil]

thanks for the input you guys i have to see if he draws and let him shoot my 243 and go from there

 

[1FastGambler]

.223/5.56 NATO is way TOO SMALL for deer. I would not even recomend a 22-250 with good bullets. It is not worth the risk of hitting bone and losing a wounded animal.

Page 39 of the NM Proclamation in the deer section:
Any Legal Sporting Arm: Centerfire rifle or handgun; shotgun no smaller than 28 gauge, firing
a single slug; bow and arrows; crossbow and bolts; or muzzleloading rifle.


.22 caliber used to be legal for antelope, racoons, small game, and non-game.

I wonder why they changed it? My guess is it's an error.

 

[NMaddict]

I started my boys out with a 7mm-08 and it was great on deer and light on recoil but they outgrew it quickly. But i think the best choice for a youth caliber is what i bought my daughter, a 308 win. U can buy reduced recoil ammo and have little or no recoil. She dropped her first buck in its tracks at age 7. The beauty of buying a 308 win is that you can later upgrade to regular ammo and there are tons of choices in 308. Also its a rifle that can be used for a lifetime. No fear of them outgrowing it. Just my opinion after introducing 5 kids to hunting.

 

[NMPaul]

>I started my boys out with
>a 7mm-08 and it was
>great on deer and light
>on recoil but they outgrew
>it quickly. But i think
>the best choice for a
>youth caliber is what i
>bought my daughter, a 308
>win. U can buy reduced
>recoil ammo and have little
>or no recoil. She dropped
>her first buck in its
>tracks at age 7. The
>beauty of buying a 308
>win is that you can
>later upgrade to regular ammo
>and there are tons of
>choices in 308. Also its
>a rifle that can be
>used for a lifetime. No
>fear of them outgrowing it.
>Just my opinion after introducing
>5 kids to hunting.
I agree with this. Kids will grow out of the super small calibers really quick. Would not go any smaller than a .308 or 7mm08.

Dont let recoil be the controlling factor. They can shoot off of sticks (standing reduces recoil a bunch) use pads etc...

With that you can go elk hunting also.

 

[MaineFlatlander]

Might be pretty light...I also believe they may out grow the rifle but egos out grow the caliber. I have reached 50 and still love my 7mm-08 and 270 and can kill anything in NA at distances 95% of hunters can't hit a deer or elk.My last rifle was a 243 and I love it and everything I tried to kill was dead after one shot We need to teach our kids HOW to shoot more than WHAT to shoot.

 

[nm_alazan]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-13 AT 02:55PM (MST)[p]I think the .22 centerfires are adequate for deer with a well placed bullet. However, depending on the terrain you are hunting, you may have a hard time finding a downed deer due to the size of the bullet hole in the hide and the potential lack of blood trail.

Generally, with a well placed lung shot, a .223 will kill a deer in the same amount of time as any other caliber. The difference being that you will need to physically see the animal go down to have a good chance of recovering. My dad shot an antelope at a bit over 100 yds with a .22-250 and the hole thru the body cavity was about the size of a golf ball, but the hole in the hide (entrance and exit) was .22 cal with very little external blood loss even though the animal died within 5-10 seconds. No problems for us since we saw where the animal ran and died.

So, if you are hunting open terrain and keep shots 200 yds or less, I think a .223 is fine if you are willing to accept the other limitations of the round.

Since you are buying a new gun anyway, why not get a .243 or .25-06 so he can also hunt elk legally (and then have the same debate with many regarding the use of those calibers on elk, but that will be another thread)?

Good luck!

 

[Z]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-13 AT 01:52AM (MST)[p]I have seen an oryx downed with a .17 Remington before...so I say yes

My little sister killed a big bodied axis deer with a 223 and my wife hunts muleys with a 223.

Bullet weight retention will be one of the biggest factors next to shot placement. Use the Triple Shock or Partition bullet and keep it right on the money when you shoot.

 

[hank4elk]

NOT IMHO for most any game. Marginal at best under optimum conditions.
As stated get the kid a gun they will use for any game for years to come.Get them used to recoil to get rid of the flinches.Use a Simms recoil pad.

 

[NMPaul]

NMG&F does a great job for youth hunts.

Big hint here thinking about buying a kid a rifle.

If he does not draw he is guaranteed a cow tag in the youth encouragement hunts.

A kid can hunt every year here, with the cow tag as the insurance policy of that.

If you do it right ANY kid can get comfortable with a .308/7mm08. Why go smaller and then take them out of their ability to cow hunt??

 

[coryb]

.223 is a hundred yard gun for deer. This is about as far as most kids (and most adults for that matter) are capable of shooting. This allows you to stay around 1000-1200 foot pounds of energy.

.243 is a much better round with plenty of energy to 300 yards and very little recoil.

.308 is a very overrated caliber. The increase in energy over a .243 is very little and the recoil is more than double. The biggest benefit to a .308 is variety and availability (usually) of ammo. Ballistically, it's pretty sad. My .257 WBY has more energy at all ranges with far less recoil.

People downplay recoil but it is a major factor. I weigh 200 lbs. and do manual labor for a living and therefore stay in good shape. I will shoot my .257 over my .308 any day of the week because it feels better and I therefore shoot it better.

Cory

 

[IChaseCoues]

.222 with a 60gn Partition

The bullet exited on 2 of 3.

He has since graduated to a 243 that he used to take a mule deer and a cow elk with in the last two years.

Recoil is definately a factor for some people more than others. The most important thing to me is to not teach them to flinch by convincing them to shoot a gun that hurts or scares them. The recoil of a 308 on a 60lb kid is worse than 200lb guy shooting a 375RUM.

 

[IChaseCoues]

Oh, also you can down load a 243 with an 87gn Vmax to ~2800fps and it does an awesome job on deer and antelope within 200 yards.
Get them in as close as possible, thats a big part of the excitement anyway!

 

[nm_alazan]

Cory,

I hear what you are saying about recoil, and totally agree, especially when talking about the best setup for young hunters.

However, with regards to pure ballistics, I've not heard anyone compare a .243 to a .308. At the muzzle, the .308 has about 35% more energy, but at 300 yds, the .308 has 70% more energy, and has almost as much energy as the .243 does at the muzzle (according to my Winchester ballistics table anyway).

Either one of those numbers puts the two cartidges in two different classes. If it doesn't, then we can also say that a 338 win mag is pretty much the same as a 30-06 since the 338 only has about 30% more muzzle energy than the '06.

You might be right on the efficiency of a .308, it may be overrated to some degree. It's the standard loading for US military snipers (for the .30 cal rifle option anyway) but partly because it is a NATO round (meaning if snipers had a choice, the .308 might not be the first choice).

I do totally agree with you also that a .308 may have too much recoil for some young hunters. Especially with regards to a young hunter's accuracy (or an old one's for that matter). It's not just about how much of a pounding someone can take, you need to be able to shoot consistently and accurately as well.

 

[nmhuntr]

Here is a Remington for about $300 at Buds guns in several calibers.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_57_981/Rifles/Remington/Bolt+Action+Centerfire