Ultimag
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Don't need to im extrenely familiar with wyomigCheck the map...
My inlaws have lived in the state for 80+ yrs
You have a good day buzz ]
Don't need to im extrenely familiar with wyomigCheck the map...
Why? if its a, tax, write off for mileage(as, buzz stated in his post) dont see why they wouldn'tNW Wyoming destination, nobody is flying into Cheyenne.
Find me an outfitter in Cody that recommends their hunters fly into Cheyenne...Why? if its a, tax, write off for mileage(as, buzz stated in his post) dont see why they wouldn't
All you need for clients is groceries?Groceries aren't taxed in Wyoming.
Anyone want to talk about the outfitters in the Cody and Northern WY area driving to Billings to buy all their food, etc. from Sam's Club, Costco, etc. for their clients/outfitted hunts?
You know, good old salt of the earth Wyoming outfitters saving a boat load of money by avoiding paying sales tax in Wyoming (no sales tax in MT either) and to save hundreds rather than "shopping local".
Yep drive an hour and 45min to save sales tax?
Yeah. I only know it because we do it as well. Not to mention that BIllings also has Scheels. Which is superior to any sporting good store we have... Last time I went we spent a little over $500 at Scheels, time before was closer to $2000.Elk96, you make sense. I just tend to look at most of Buzz's post as a bunch of hot air.
BuzzH I agree - that is exaclty what I think, just 1 more point would REALLY help. if this all goes down I suspect the year before bonus points starts (roughly 5 years from now) I will be in EXACTLY the same boat as now with exactly the same odds as 2021. Well not exaclt the same boat. I will be out at least $500 more pointsI think you're hosed.
There's 282 people in your point pool alone.
Another 106 in front of you with points.
What's going to happen between now and then is massive point creep as those with 20+ are going to try to draw before 90/10 in any unit they feel they have enough points for. I bet this year, at least 1 full point of creep for every sheep tag, possibly more.
If the change to bonus points happen, you're back to essentially a random draw with your 26-27 (by then) bonus points...you'll really see the top guys drawing anywhere they can. Those that now have 24-27 will be drawing most all of the 10% NR quota.
If 90/10 passes there is going to be a lot of happy R moose, sheep, goat, and bison hunters.
I was talking to another hunter in AZ on my recent coues hunt, he's in the 23 point pool for sheep and moose (NR). He's going to apply for sheep for sure this year, may take a chance on moose as he's in a much better place.
One of my best friends (NR) has 25 for sheep and he's going to try draw before 90-10 and definitely before his preference points switch to bonus. He's in a much better place than you, he will get a preference tag no matter what happens.
I think that's optimistic, but not reality.BuzzH I agree - that is exaclty what I think, just 1 more point would REALLY help. if this all goes down I suspect the year before bonus points starts (roughly 5 years from now) I will be in EXACTLY the same boat as now with exactly the same odds as 2021. Well not exaclt the same boat. I will be out at least $500 more points
Distance !!!Why doesn't the outfitter use, cheyenne regional
Airport? Or is it just assumeing they drive to billings?
Move to bonus????I think that's optimistic, but not reality.
I doubt you'll draw a preference tag if it goes 90/10 and your points move to bonus in 4-5 years.
Too many in front of you and in your pool.
Booner,Move to bonus????
Let’s see some source documents.
Move to bonus????
Let’s see some source documents.
Thanks for posting that. So, if they do this what about a guy who has 25 or so points banked up and decides to move to WY? Do those become Res preference points or is that just something they don’t care about/haven’t thought of?Booner,
Lots of discussion on the move to a weighted bonus point system (squared) during the wildlife task force meetings. Recordings of the meetings are on-line. Probably won't go into effect for 4 or 5 years (if/when legislature changes it) to give some of the top tier pref pt holders a chance to use their points.
Res would move to bonus points as well. Currently pp’s follow the person regardless of residency so I would assume BP’s would as wellThanks for posting that. So, if they do this what about a guy who has 25 or so points banked up and decides to move to WY? Do those become Res preference points or is that just something they don’t care about/haven’t thought of?
Slightly more palatable versus the alternative but everyone who has invested in this scheme has done so under the premise of good faith, especially after 25 years. Sure, we are all under no presumption of ever being successful but to completely change the structure of the point system after that kind of financial and time investment by many should be the stimulus of a revolt with the sportsmen who have been placing their trust in the system.Res would move to bonus points as well. Currently pp’s follow the person regardless of residency so I would assume BP’s would as well
Meaning the further they travel. The more they can write off that's the theory.Distance !!!
Pot meet KettleGrizzly hunts, will never happen
. Never say never
Then have at it and revolt!Slightly more palatable versus the alternative but everyone who has invested in this scheme has done so under the premise of good faith, especially after 25 years. Sure, we are all under no presumption of ever being successful but to completely change the structure of the point system after that kind of financial and time investment by many should be the stimulus of a revolt with the sportsmen who have been placing their trust in the system.
I understand both sides. I do have 21 NR moose and invested a lot of years and money.Slightly more palatable versus the alternative but everyone who has invested in this scheme has done so under the premise of good faith, especially after 25 years. Sure, we are all under no presumption of ever being successful but to completely change the structure of the point system after that kind of financial and time investment by many should be the stimulus of a revolt with the sportsmen who have been placing their trust in the system.
Buzz when I said 1 more point I meant if I started 1 year earlier. I do agree. I bet that if this all goes down the last year (5 years away) before they go to bonus points I will have about the same odds as I had in 2021. It is not looking good. That said several decent hunts with 20% odds - yes guys will bail into them BUT guys will also drop out. I suspect I have a 50/50 chance at a tag by 2027, maybe worse. Probably worse. ggggrrrr ah well, trying to make the best of it. If the 90/10 split got delayed just 2-3 more years I am golden.I think that's optimistic, but not reality.
I doubt you'll draw a preference tag if it goes 90/10 and your points move to bonus in 4-5 years.
Too many in front of you and in your pool.
If you have 22 points you passed “close to good” sheep tags a while back. You could draw a pile of damn good ones.What is the soonest it will go into affect? I have 22 points and I am very very close to good sheep tags. I can draw the toughest hunts in the wilderness (I am a NR) this year. If things stay the same I will get a good tag in 4 years or less. If it changes I MIGHT get a tag in 10 years. If they also drastically change the NR draw for to mostly, or all, bonus points I will likely never draw.
In other words this is a big deal to me. I have been dreaming about this hunt for 22 years and spent a lot of time, money and reasearch on it. I am sad and angry I might never get to hunt sheep in WY.
I hear ya. Felt good to burn my 23 pts in CO in 2021 (69 yo). I will miss the small game and fishing licenses they thought I needed! $$$ Hunting in November, I didn’t know whether to bring open water or ice fishing gear! ?As a nonresident with 21 sheep points and 57yo, I'm feeling even more used and abused. Wyoming has gladly taken more and more of my money over the years for the opportunity to one day draw a Bighorn tag. Now they may change the rules to make it unlikely to draw this tag while I'm physically able to do this hunt. The state has profited from a ratio(80/20) that hundreds of nonresidents felt was acceptable during this time of investment. Seems like a breach of contract to me, but at the very least it shows a lack of character in the ones making this decision which affects so many that have been sending checks to Wyoming in good faith for so many years.
Exactly. I think over 25 years we are owed the expectation of a sincere intention to be fair, open, and honest, regardless of the outcome of the interaction. Can populations go up or down and tag numbers fluctuate, of course. Cost of points, sure. This whole 90/10, whatever. But to change the fundamental premise of how the game is played, that has been going for a 1/4 century?? Life ain’t fair, but this bonus point talk is BS. If it’s a money thing raise the prices. You know we will pay.As a nonresident with 21 sheep points and 57yo, I'm feeling even more used and abused. Wyoming has gladly taken more and more of my money over the years for the opportunity to one day draw a Bighorn tag. Now they may change the rules to make it unlikely to draw this tag while I'm physically able to do this hunt. The state has profited from a ratio(80/20) that hundreds of nonresidents felt was acceptable during this time of investment. Seems like a breach of contract to me, but at the very least it shows a lack of character in the ones making this decision which affects so many that have been sending checks to Wyoming in good faith for so many years.
Well, now see that's where you're wrong.As a nonresident with 21 sheep points and 57yo, I'm feeling even more used and abused. Wyoming has gladly taken more and more of my money over the years for the opportunity to one day draw a Bighorn tag. Now they may change the rules to make it unlikely to draw this tag while I'm physically able to do this hunt. The state has profited from a ratio(80/20) that hundreds of nonresidents felt was acceptable during this time of investment. Seems like a breach of contract to me, but at the very least it shows a lack of character in the ones making this decision which affects so many that have been sending checks to Wyoming in good faith for so many years.
Right improve your chances, if you live to be 120 years old, sheep don't continue to decline or the draw percentages change, you should, I reckon, improve your odds at a tag.The very first sentence in the app booklet on page 14 under the heading “Preference Points” states this: …designed to improve an applicant’s odds of eventually drawing a license in a hard to draw hunt area. That’s all we are expecting and quite frankly are owed. There is not a single sentence or hint to the purchaser that- hey, we may have this system in place for 30 or so years then pull the rug out from under you. Truth in government, it’s a hard concept to wrap a guys head around.
Not everyone starts applying in their late 70s…Right improve your chances, if you live to be 120 years old, sheep don't continue to decline or the draw percentages change, you should, I reckon, improve your odds at a tag.
You're getting what you pay for, a point.
You can also buy a sheep hunt in Canada, Alaska, or Mexico if you're that wrapped up around the axle about it. You don't even have to buy points to do it.Not everyone starts applying in their late 70s…
From the current stats it appears those chances vastly improve in some/most units around the 21yr mark.
We expect exactly what we paid for, the odds of obtaining a license to eventually increase. Not some bait and switch BS because someone wants to make more money.
I’ve done that, but don’t know what that has to do with the current topic.You can also buy a sheep hunt in Canada, Alaska, or Mexico if you're that wrapped up around the axle about it. You don't even have to buy points to do it.
Nothing stopping you, but you.
Do it again...don't let WY's "garbage" slow you down. What it means is you have options, lots of them. Don't apply in Wyoming, apply in MT, UT, AZ, NV, CO, NM, if you think WY is such a raw deal. Or buy another sheep hunt, you have options, use them.I’ve done that, but don’t know what that has to do with the current topic.
The axle I am wrapped around is being sold on an idea for 25 years and then having the entire premise of that idea reduced to garbage.
We all know your ego won’t allow you to see things with an impartial lens. You got your ram after you put in your time, so F the rest of you idiots who thought the game wouldn’t change. That’s essentially what we hear from your keyboard.
Buzz,Do it again...don't let WY's "garbage" slow you down. What it means is you have options, lots of them. Don't apply in Wyoming, apply in MT, UT, AZ, NV, CO, NM, if you think WY is such a raw deal. Or buy another sheep hunt, you have options, use them.
You're not required to apply for sheep or anything else here.
All I hear from a lot of NR's keyboard is high-pitched whining...we'll call it even.
BTW, you still have time to burn your 25 points you allegedly have, and could be out of the sheep game already. Time to burn them...pitter-patter.
If you own a business that relies on the short hunting season to turn a profit you deserve to go out of business.There are many small town communities scattered across Wyo that are many miles from Yellowstone and Jackson that hardly see a visitor until hunting season. These isolated small towns would be impacted the most by 90/10.
I agree they never promised me a sheep but I bought prefence points not bonus points and that is a breach of contract. Preference points are worth more than bonus points hence the breach of contract...not that anything will come of it. When they convert to bonus points they should have an offer of a refund or conversion to bonus points...not that I'd take the money either, but that would make it fair from a contract law legal standpoint. Your right changing to 90/10 or 99/1 or canceling hunting has no bearing on us NRs buying preference points.Well, now see that's where you're wrong.
Wyoming gladly took your money for the purchase of a preference point.
Show me where Wyoming promised you a sheep tag.
It doesn't show a lack of character at all by those pushing for treating the resident sportsmen of Wyoming in a more fair and equitable way. The same way Wyoming Residents are treated in regard to license allocations in States they are NR in.
The task force is listening to the Sportsmen of Wyoming that want more opportunity at sheep, goat, bison, moose, and eventually grizzly bears. That's exactly what they should do.
For the record, when was the last time you made a recommendation in the State you live in to increase NR opportunity there? Lower NR license fees there? Etc. etc.
The very first sentence in the app booklet on page 14 under the heading “Preference Points” states this: …designed to improve an applicant’s odds of eventually drawing a license in a hard to draw hunt area. That’s all we are expecting and quite frankly are owed. There is not a single sentence or hint to the purchaser that- hey, we may have this system in place for 30 or so years then pull the rug out from under you. Truth in government, it’s a hard concept to wrap a guys head around.
I purposefully never used the word entitled because I agree. No one has stated they are entitled to anything. Entitlement is the belief that you are inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Probably a buzz word for folks. There is damn sure an expectation though based on what was sold. The expectation to eventually improve your odds.
Not going to happen...I agree they never promised me a sheep but I bought prefence points not bonus points and that is a breach of contract. Preference points are worth more than bonus points hence the breach of contract...not that anything will come of it. When they convert to bonus points they should have an offer of a refund or conversion to bonus points...not that I'd take the money either, but that would make it fair from a contract law legal standpoint. Your right changing to 90/10 or 99/1 or canceling hunting has no bearing on us NRs buying preference points.
You keep saying that what you bought was the expectation of improving your odds. Well, BP's give you that as well. So according to your argument you should be satisfied.There is damn sure an expectation though based on what was sold. The expectation to eventually improve your odds.
I have expectations to draw every tag I apply for every year...but it's not reality. The reality is, the more often I apply the more tags I get. Same with points, you are getting the expectation of perceived increased odds with the more points you have. But the reality is, you still may not ever draw.I purposefully never used the word entitled because I agree. No one has stated they are entitled to anything. Entitlement is the belief that you are inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Probably a buzz word for folks. There is damn sure an expectation though based on what was sold. The expectation to eventually improve your odds.
Your reading comprehension and tact are obviously lacking. I never said I had 25 points, it is obvious the system has been around that long. I’ve got 20.Do it again...don't let WY's "garbage" slow you down. What it means is you have options, lots of them. Don't apply in Wyoming, apply in MT, UT, AZ, NV, CO, NM, if you think WY is such a raw deal. Or buy another sheep hunt, you have options, use them.
You're not required to apply for sheep or anything else here.
All I hear from a lot of NR's keyboard is high-pitched whining...we'll call it even.
BTW, you still have time to burn your 25 points you allegedly have, and could be out of the sheep game already. Time to burn them...pitter-patter.
Take the money you save by not applying for sheep this year and buying a point...buy chances at the trifecta and/or sheep raffle tags.Your reading comprehension and tact are obviously lacking. I never said I had 25 points, it is obvious the system has been around that long. I’ve got 20.
When a point that contradicts your opinion is made your favorite routine is to deflect and offer childish criticism that really has no bearing on the subject. Keep up the good work.
27yrs. Got it.Take the money you save by not applying for sheep this year and buying a point...buy chances at the trifecta and/or sheep raffle tags.
Probably better odds and you don't have to buy a point.
Win-win....
System has been in place 27 years...not 25, FWIW.
Also, what I proposed to the task force was 90/10, keep preference system and 50/50 split random/preference both R and NR. Sy Gilliland proposed the same thing and I still think its the best idea.
A couple of the other task force members are pushing the other idea of squared bonus points. I'm not going to die on a hill over either. The goal was always about 90-10 for Residents.
Die on your own hill...I'll keep my powder dry for something that matters.
Again please fully read and comprehend my post no need for calling names. I work and deal with contract law everyday but my post makes no reference to a lawsuit. Why because that takes alot of money and no rich guy is going to waste their time when they can just buy another auction sheep tag and go hunting. I'm just stating that there's a really good case for breach of contract is all. And they did the same with my Montana points too buddy!!!Not going to happen...
Who determines if preference points are worth more than bonus points?
I guess I should sue the State of Montana since I was only buying a single bonus point for the first 10 years.
I've determined that my individual points were worth way more than my squared points...therefore breach of contract?
Yeah...fantasyland BS, good luck with the lawsuit tuffie.
Totally disagree...and I look at quite a bit of contract language as well.Again please fully read and comprehend my post no need for calling names. I work and deal with contract law everyday but my post makes no reference to a lawsuit. Why because that takes alot of money and no rich guy is going to waste their time when they can just buy another auction sheep tag and go hunting. I'm just stating that there's a really good case for breach of contract is all. And they did the same with my Montana points too buddy!!!
I can respect your disagreement...my only argument is I bought prefence points not bonus points. Preference points were fully defined in the regulations when I bought them. Now if they want to change them to bonus points without my consent that's an issue because I assume their definition of bonus points will totally negate the contract I had with them when I purchased them...hence breach of contract. They have decided to arbitrarily change the definition and type of points I bought after a significant investment of money and time on my part. With this logic then they can change anything in the middle of the game with no recourse to the buyer. Fun to discuss different points of view on this but Wyoming will do as it pleases.Totally disagree...and I look at quite a bit of contract language as well.
Not seeing a case at all.
You had preference points back in the 70's that they totally took them away?
27yrs. Got it.
Looks like we are on the same hill. I don’t care about the 90/10. I’m young. The dream is free.
I’ve read through 4 pages of various opinions on this topic and haven’t seen anyone say the state of WY owes them a sheep tag. Maybe I missed it, I’d love to see it.So where is this contact wyoming signed with you where we owe you a sheep tag id love to see it
True, but it isn’t always about is what is beneficial to the one who will gain the advantage. It’s about a handshake. One would think of all places that still means something in WY.If you have 20 points going into the 2022 draw there is 600 people ahead of you. 90/10 with a 50/50 split pretty much means you aren't drawing for a long time. Bonus points squared might work out better for you.
Very well said Booner. Wyoming is my favorite state to hunt...was a resident there for 4 years and it has blessed me with a 180lb record book tom, record book shiras moose, my 2 biggest elk and my biggest mule deer plus dozens of nice antelope.True, but it isn’t always about is what is beneficial to the one who will gain the advantage. It’s about a handshake. One would think of all places that still means something in WY.
Afterall the previous posts and interactions, you've really surprised me on this thread.I can respect your disagreement...my only argument is I bought prefence points not bonus points. Preference points were fully defined in the regulations when I bought them. Now if they want to change them to bonus points without my consent that's an issue because I assume their definition of bonus points will totally negate the contract I had with them when I purchased them...hence breach of contract. They have decided to arbitrarily change the definition and type of points I bought after a significant investment of money and time on my part. With this logic then they can change anything in the middle of the game with no recourse to the buyer. Fun to discuss different points of view on this but Wyoming will do as it pleases.
I really debated even saying something on this post...Afterall the previous posts and interactions, you've really surprised me on this thread.
I live just outside Red Feather Lakes. Do almost all of my work there. I can't think of one person who will go hungry if hunters stop spending hunting related dollars. I wish we were that important.Here's a pretty interesting article with specific examples about hunter revenue impacts to local economies in Colorado. Wyo res are fooling themselves if they think local economies don't prosper from hunters...and in particular nonres hunters!
Big-game hunting is big money for Colorado
Stephen Meyers
[email protected]
Colorado's nearly $1 billion hunting industry opened its first rifle season Saturday, the prime time for elk hunting as hunters — many traveling from out of state — don their camouflage and orange and go deep into the woods and their pockets to stalk big game.
Hunting generates $38.1 million annually in total economic output in Larimer County, the fifth-highest total by county in the state, according to a recent study of the economic impact of Colorado outdoor recreation.
Combined with fishing, Colorado hunting recreation is a $2.8 billion economic driver, according to the report by Southwick Associates, commissioned by Colorado Parks and Wildlife and published in February. Hunting and fishing is the second-largest tourism industry in Colorado, trailing only skiing.
"This time of year, you go into a restaurant or cafe in these small mountain towns and 80 percent of the customers are wearing camouflage or blaze orange hats, depending on the season," said Josh Soholt, owner of Gannett Ridge Hunting Equipment, which later this month will move from its North College Avenue location to 3006 N. Mulberry St.. "Hunting is a huge economic boost."
Colorado Parks and Wildlife collected $38 million in elk and deer licenses from nonresidents in 2012-2013, compared with $7.6 million from in-state hunters.
Bruce Ayers of Eaton-based Ponderosa Outfitters said about 95 percent of his elk hunting clientele are nonresidents. That number is about 80 percent for Wes Atkinson, owner of Atkinson Expeditions in Fort Collins.
"I've got groups from the East Coast, the South, a lot from Texas," said Atkinson, whose team of seven guides leads about 200 trips a year.
Hunting's trickle-down effect
Before heading to the mountains or plains for a multiday hunting trip, many local and out-of-state hunters gear up in Larimer County, a major hub for hunting-related gear retail.
According to the study, Larimer County generated $4.1 million in retail trade sales of hunting-related gear.
Hunting also creates 574 jobs in Larimer County, second to El Paso and Arapahoe counties.
For smaller Larimer County communities like Red Feather Lakes, or Walden in Jackson County 100 miles west of Fort Collins, the fall big-game hunting season is the lifeblood of the local economy.
"Hunting affects a lot of businesses, bars, restaurants, hotels, gas stations. Everybody gets a boost from the hunters," said James Carothers, owner of the Moose Creek Cafe in Walden. "It's our lifesaver."
Pat Martinez, a retired Colorado Parks and Wildlife (formerly Division of Wildlife) biologist, said the economic impacts of hunting extend past the hunter and their ammunition.
Martinez is co-chair of the newly formed organization Hunting Works for Colorado, which has created partnerships with sporting organizations and small businesses in rural Colorado towns that serve as the gateway to prime hunting grounds.
Big-game hunting is big money for Colorado
Hunting generates $38.1 million annually in total economic output in Larimer County.www.coloradoan.com
Really cause all I see is 4 pages of grown men whining about wyoming owing them a sheep tag cause they bought PREFERENCE points.I’ve read through 4 pages of various opinions on this topic and haven’t seen anyone say the state of WY owes them a sheep tag. Maybe I missed it, I’d love to see it.
Some people see things that aren’t there I guess, I don’t know what to tell you. If I live to be 120 and never draw a sheep tag I have instructions for my kin to put in my obituary that “he appreciated the opportunity to potentially draw a WY sheep tag and had no expectation of ever drawing one.”Really cause all I see is 4 pages of grown men whining about wyoming owing them a sheep tag cause they bought PREFERENCE points.
Some people see things that aren’t there I guess, I don’t know what to tell you. If I live to be 120 and never draw a sheep tag I have instructions for my kin to put in my obituary that “he appreciated the opportunity to potentially draw a WY sheep tag and had no expectation of ever drawing one.”
Oh BS....what projections?Big picture for all you.
There are so many people moving into Wyoming
It’s crazy ,models and projections are showing Wyoming is going to double in population within the next 20 years.
Non resident s ain’t gonna matter when you add hundreds of thousands of new RESIDENT hunters.Those of you with kids better be building points cause your kids won’t get to hunt much
When they are old enough.
Everyone is gonna lose.Not just the non residents.
They will just happen to be first!
Wow how interesting, considering Wyoming had the seventh slowest growth rate in the country in the last decade and the increase was under 15,000 people. No one talks about the number of people that leave the Cowboy State every year.Big picture for all you.
There are so many people moving into Wyoming
It’s crazy ,models and projections are showing Wyoming is going to double in population within the next 20 years.
Non resident s ain’t gonna matter when you add hundreds of thousands of new RESIDENT hunters.Those of you with kids better be building points cause your kids won’t get to hunt much
When they are old enough.
Everyone is gonna lose.Not just the non residents.
They will just happen to be first!
We need more revenue from Non Res. and that is why the Wyoming Outfitters Association might just side with the resident hunters and propose a much higher percentage of the Non Res. licenses go to fully guided hunters who spend far more than Utah and Colorado DIY hunters who rarely spend a dime on our local economy by filling up in Colorado, buying all their food at Costco in Denver and camping on NF lands but fully outfitted hunters spend 6X what a DIY hunter spends. Perhaps half the 10% allocation should go only to fully guided hunters in Wyoming for NR similar to what New Mexico has, then we could certainly maximize that NR Revenue……..Wyo res are bragging about low population growth rates? The low population growth in Wyo wouldn’t have anything to do with the poor economy? Everyone knows the Wyo wind blows and winters suck but Wyo lives and dies by boom and bust cycles! Population growth is usually a sign of a healthy economy.
The last thing Wyo needs is to piss off nonres by cutting their tags in 1/2 with 90/10. Nonres are the WG&F and small town community bread and butter!
My post from bowsite:
So I did some math for fun. Squaring points REALLY helps guys with lots of points (vs. regular bonus points). Using NR 2021 stats for sheep unit 5, and applying the 90/10 split, ASSUMING HALF NR APPS quit, and assuming no new apps I calculated my odds - with my current 22 points squared to be about 1%. This assumed 3 NR tags.
This is really bad. With the 90/10 split I still have no chance at drawing - basically WY will suck another $164 per year out of me, for 6 years until they institute bonus points. At that point the odds will be worse then I calculated now. Roughly 100 "new" people apply for unit 5 sheep have zero points each year. 600 new apps (6 years), less then half the tags, other guys ahead of me with more points. 30 points is 900 chances. 20 is 400. That is a significant difference.
This is really depressing. I need a beer.
jimss WY will not loose money they are VERY shrewd about sucking in, and keeping, the NR. See my earlier post about 2 questionaries they sent me - clearly to see how they can get the most money out of me for the least number of tags. Hence bonus points. When they went form a $7 to $100 sheep point fee 1/2 the apps dropped. This means they made 7x as much money for 1/2 the work. Then they went to $150 a point, very few dropped.
The 90/10 split combined with bonus points will destroy NR chances at hunting the big 5 in WY. I apply aggressively - 17 states (for about 47 tags) each year but I have been working hard to drop states each year. AK gone, NV gone, Vermont gone, trying hard to finish Utah and WY sheep/moose asap. Considering dropping MT & CO sheep & mnt goat. I never thought I would say that.
I am VERY lucky to have started this game 23 years ago. I have drawn and some incredible hunts. I truly feel sorry for everyone new to this game.
I can afford to pay but even I am getting frustrated with the system that I used to love.
We need more revenue from Non Res. and that is why the Wyoming Outfitters Association might just side with the resident hunters and propose a much higher percentage of the Non Res. licenses go to fully guided hunters who spend far more than Utah and Colorado DIY hunters who rarely spend a dime on our local economy by filling up in Colorado, buying all their food at Costco in Denver and camping on NF lands but fully outfitted hunters spend 6X what a DIY hunter spends. Perhaps half the 10% allocation should go only to fully guided hunters in Wyoming for NR similar to what New Mexico has, then we could certainly maximize that NR Revenue……..
All you guys complaining I'm here to tell you if it was easy to get tags it wouldn't be as much fun. I just picked up my last two rams from the taxidermist and I'm beginning to think I've killed too many. Time for something new. Sheep hunting *yawn*
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Yeah. I even plugged the other ram with my 7mm…Those came out nice. Does Fish and Game plug you horns too? Like they do in the lower 48.
All you guys complaining I'm here to tell you if it was easy to get tags it wouldn't be as much fun. I just picked up my last two rams from the taxidermist and I'm beginning to think I've killed too many. Time for something new. Sheep hunting *yawn*
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Your wife is way more hot with a mask on. And to answer your question, yes.Nice collection of masks! One for each day?
Square D for life!Throw that 3 pole GE breaker away and go with square D...
Secondaly those tan wirenuts work good with a 5/16" nut driver.
That's what I picked up in your 2 pictures
In 2021 There was exactly 1 unit in the state I was sure to draw. 1 Unit I would have 50/50 odds. All the rest are under 50%. I watch this very closely every year. I have literally only passed sheep unit I could draw. I am a NR, not sure if that mixed you guys up.If you have 22 points you passed “close to good” sheep tags a while back. You could draw a pile of damn good ones.
I Agree, MOST ARE ?Your wife is way more hot with a mask on. And to answer your question, yes.
Nobody has goat points...Just offering advice and recommendations on what going to a bonus pt system would do to Wyo res (plus nonres) that have a pile of sheep and goat pref pts.
Hopefully decisions made aren’t at the expense of nonres hunters that are the bread and butter for the WG&F….and Wyo small business owners! I think the WG&F would agree that nonres views are fairly important since 70% of their license revenue comes from nonres?
My hope is that many of the small business owners across Wyo wake up to the financial revenue loss they will have with 90/10 in already tough financial times!
The same thing is true here in Colo where small business owners retaliate every time nonres quota reductions are brought up. That’s the main reason that nonres limited tag quotas in Colo are the highest in the entire Western US!
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.