Airborne Utards

Trammer · Oct 23, 2013

I was hunting Zions again last week and had heard that a hunter was having his buddy fly around in a helicopter and look for sheep and radio to the hunter on the ground the location or GPS coordinates of the sheep he saw. I wouldnt have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. There it was a helicopter flying around buzzing the unit everyday I was there. Even a second copter popped up one evening.I have seen lots of copters looking for sheep over the years. During the hunt! Interfering with everyone else s hunt and doing so illegally and unethically. The question I have is: WTF are they thinking? They are F#$cking Utarded.

Grand Slam #911

tallbuck1 · Oct 23, 2013

Did you call it in?

Tallbuck1

bowhunt · Oct 23, 2013

I had the same problem when I hunted it in 2010.
I had them flying over while I was trying to hunt, very frustrating.
The funny thing is they called me and wanted to guide me, saying...we have flow the area and know where a great Ram is. I did call it in.
I have also heard Guides are taking money for guiding on the Wilderness portion of this unit, that is another BIG NO NO.
So lots of weird things going on there for sure.

tallbuck1 · Oct 25, 2013

Trammer,

Did you call it in? If you are seeing them do it day after day I am sure it wouldn't be hard to call the DWR and have them out there with you, or you could video it and then show it to a CO and have the proof.

Tallbuck1

tallbuck1 · Oct 25, 2013

>I had the same problem when
>I hunted it in 2010.
>
>I had them flying over while
>I was trying to hunt,
>very frustrating.
>The funny thing is they called
>me and wanted to guide
>me, saying...we have flow the
>area and know where a
>great Ram is. I did
>call it in.
>I have also heard Guides are
>taking money for guiding on
>the Wilderness portion of this
>unit, that is another BIG
>NO NO.
>So lots of weird things going
>on there for sure.

What was the follow up to you calling in this event? Did anything come of it?

Tallbuck1

Trammer · Nov 6, 2013

I do have an ID on the chopper. I have not called it in because there is the chance it was just helicopter tours. Plus the Federal Airborne Hunting Act is overly nasty. It calls for forfeiture of the aircraft, huge fines, minimum mandatory prison sentences for those involved. So there are a lot of moral and ethical questions to consider.Is the Law Just? Is it worth destroying someones life over? Could my call lead to Law Enforcement barking up the wrong tree?

Grand Slam #911

Triple_BB · Nov 6, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-13 AT 09:54AM (MST)[p]At first I thought from the title of yer thread it had something to do with seagull's...

How do you know it was illegal flying. In Wyoming you can fly and scout as long its not within 24 hours of hunting. Do they any type of similar law down that way...

bowhunt · Nov 6, 2013

I am not sure that anything became of it.
I reported it and never heard another word.

Trammer · Nov 6, 2013

Triple BB in Utah you can conduct airborne scouting legally provided that you do not harass or harry the animals for about 8 1/2 months generally from early January to about mid August but at no time during or close to any season (many statewide hunts run for 3+ months)So the Law forbids ANY airborne scouting statewide 48 hours before the very first hunting season of any kind to after the last season of any kind closes.

Grand Slam #911

tallbuck1 · Nov 6, 2013

>I do have an ID on
>the chopper. I have not
>called it in because there
>is the chance it was
>just helicopter tours. Plus the
>Federal Airborne Hunting Act is
>overly nasty. It calls for
>forfeiture of the aircraft, huge
>fines, minimum mandatory prison sentences
>for those involved. So there
>are a lot of moral
>and ethical questions to consider.Is
>the Law Just? Is it
>worth destroying someones life over?
>Could my call lead to
>Law Enforcement barking up the
>wrong tree?
>

Is it not breaking the law? Would you not call in a poacher for shooting a deer, elk, or moose or anything else knowing that the poacher could loose his gun, car, Hunting privileges and all the fines? Once again, breaking the law is breaking the law. Those who fly to spot and push animals know it is illegal. They should know the consequence of there actions if they get caught! Our job as hunters and wildlife caretakers is not to question if there are ethics or morals involved, our job is to report. These people ruin it for the rest of us by breaking the law.

Just my thoughts, but I hear what you are saying.

Tallbuck1

elkantlers · Nov 6, 2013

Sounds like you don't know what they are doing but decided to come on here and beat your chest calling them "airborne Utards".If you don't know whether they are scouting animals or are doing a sight seeing tour maybe you should call it in and find out before ASSuming they are up to no good.

Cozmo8 · Nov 6, 2013

Trammer you start the thread calling activity illegal and unethical but then you are worried about penalties for the offenders. Just trying to figure out what your point is.

Trammer · Nov 7, 2013

elkantlers, If I were an actuary or an oddsmaker I would bet that the same hunter who said his friend would be flying was associated with the specific aircraft that I saw.But as the story was told to me the sheep hunter may not have been aware that it was illegal. That was the point of my post.To make others aware of how highly illegal airborne scouting is during a hunt in Utah and how it interferes with other peoples hunt.

Cozmo8, I guess the second follow up point of my post is that hunters also need to be cautious and accurate in reporting wildlife crimes.This gets complicated when you are faced with a hodgepodge Law: Some States allow airborne scouting during a hunt. It is not inherently wrong or it would be illegal everywhere.Also I am an individual, I am blessed with discreation. I get to decide how I treat others.Would I feel good about myself sending a man to prison for fairly harmless behavior? Behavior that he may not even be aware is unethical and illegal.Additionally legal hodge podging by states runs contrary to the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.It sidetracks Law Enforcement.It is not results oriented.I simply dont want to find myself "puffing out my chest" and trying to be a hero at someone elses expense.

Thirdly, I am not a big fan of Conservation Law Enforcement as it is practiced today. They systematically look down on and are insulting to Sportsmen.Consider for example how offensive poaching rewards programs are to sportsmen: They are based on the idea that hunters will not on their own report poachings.Law Enforcement thinks that hunters are dirtbags.That they need financial rewards or Premium tags to do the right thing.I dont.

LongRangeBangin · Nov 7, 2013

I thought some states allowed you to scout with aircraft but have a 24 hour waiting period before you can pursue the animal? Knew of a crew that did it back in oregon but no one ever did anything to them? I even thought Alaska allowed it with a 24 hour wait period?

DnkyPunch · Nov 8, 2013

grow a set and call it in otherwise your whole point is a waste of time.

if they're clean, they won't have a problem explaining themselves to LE. Pretty simple IMO.

It's up to us to police ourselves to some degree. Maybe Richie Incognito could come help you? He's not busy now.

bonepiler · Nov 10, 2013

What a worthless post. If you don't know then keep your mouth shut. Here and everywhere. If you do know put on your big boy panties and give LE a call.

Trammer · Nov 15, 2013

LongeRangeBangin, Airborne scouting is allowed in Alaska essentially the day before hunting. States are all over the map on this issue. My understanding of the law as it was explained to me by a U.S. Fish and Wildlife agent is that a state violation after it is resolved results in a Federal Airborne Hunting Act violation and that the Federal Law is the nasty one.