Auction tagThis The Public Hunter?
Or the Auction Tag Hunter?
Yeah I noticed thatof course Doyle has to be the one holding somebody else's critter...
SameIt always pisses me off when Doyle grabs on to the horns like they're his. If you watch videos of hunts he's on, he always runs up there first and grabs onto them. For that exact reason, I make sure whoever shoots an animal is always the first to grab onto it when I'm there. I guess if you go with him, you have to expect that.
He’s always the first one to molest someone else’s kill.Yeah I noticed that
That's what makes the world go round. Everyone has an opinion and a right to it. Some of these guys do it for money. Others for ego and yourself for meat. I could see you being a meat hunter being annoyed by trophy hunters. Just remember some trophy hunters are upset when you shoot a 2 point or a spike. Just pointing out its the tag holders decision on what they decide to pull the trigger on.Sorry but market hunting for the sake of ego just sucks in my playbook. By new age market hunting I mean getting likes on school girl media or youtube hunts/photos. Filling the freezer is what I'm about.
I have never had the money to hire a guide and I don't know if I ever would unless I really had the need. For me a hunt is what you make of it. My dad drew San Juan elk years ago and shot a really good bull. It was just the 2 of us on that hunt and the distance to scout we only made it a couple times. My brother drew Manti 3 years ago and we had multiple friends and family on that hunt. I was able to bring my kids and with it being a lot closer we camped and scouted every weekend. My brother shot a much smaller bull around 315. He passed on better bulls hoping for the one we had found scouting but I'll be honest. The 2 hunts didn't enough compared. We seen much more elk on the Manti, spent an insane amount of time on the mountain, and it been one of my most memorable and funnest hunts.So true. Real hunters won't realy on other people for them game...
Two tags a year isn’t why the island has gone down in quality. This is probably the least hunted population in the US.The Island has gone downhill on quality. But it’s ok. As long as people will pay, they’ll keep issuing the tags….sounds familiar eh?….dwr??
Bingo!!Two tags a year isn’t why the island has gone down in quality. This is probably the least hunted population in the US.
It might, but probably not. Drought is probably playing a lot larger role than 2 bucks out of hundreds of bucks on the island getting killed. To get a deer that big, the planets have to align and every factor that makes a big buck big have to all line up. More bucks are dying of old age on the island each year than get killed by hunters.It wasn't hunted for years and in 2012 Denny Austad took a 270" deer, biggest to come off the island to my knowledge. That deer is way bigger than the buck they killed this year, Why? Hunting and killing the two biggest bucks on the island every November might have something to do with the decline in quality.
True you didn't say it was the only or biggest factor, but it was THE ONLY factor you brought up so that's why we talked about it.I didn't say it was the only factor or even the biggest factor only that it plays a role. The genetics are not in every population and a lot of National Parks do have giants some of them are killed after migration from the parks. I understand that age, genetics, feed and the health of the doe when she's pregnant all play a role. The island hunt isn't much different than hunting city deer. Look at the big buck from the Gunnison cemetery that was just killed on the archery hunt. Bottom line the island bucks are big but if that 270 buck was still out there breeding does you're more likely to see bucks like him.
That's a beautiful freaking deer.View attachment 58347
Draw tag
And it would also be common sense to know that a buck that lived long enough to grow to 270 has passed on plenty of those gene's as well as has his offspring. Those gene's are not gone.It would appear to be common sense that a 270" deer would be more likely to have a son that has the genetics to be a truly giant 250+ buck, than a 225" deer but I guess common sense isn't that common.
Yeah that’s common sense. It’s also common sense that he got his genes from somewhere and that he already passed on his genes. He didn’t magically appear out of thin air the day they killed him. He had parents that had the genetics who also had other offspring and he was old enough he also passed on his genetics. Taking one buck didn't ruin the gene pool. Think it through. A basic understanding of genetics and biology is even less common than common sense ?It would appear to be common sense that a 270" deer would be more likely to have a son that has the genetics to be a truly giant 250+ buck, than a 225" deer but I guess common sense isn't that common.
You know what your right, it's just common sense that they are killing way to many deer off of the island... we better shut it down. The big buck herd just can't sustain having 2 deer killed every year. Bound to be over ran with sub 230 bucks from here on out. ?It would appear to be common sense that a 270" deer would be more likely to have a son that has the genetics to be a truly giant 250+ buck, than a 225" deer but I guess common sense isn't that common.
What a problem to have! Only 230You know what your right, it's just common sense that they are killing way to many deer off of the island... we better shut it down. The big buck herd just can't sustain having 2 deer killed every year. Bound to be over ran with sub 230 bucks from here on out. ?
I know right???? The horror!What a problem to have! Only 230
Bucks to be found
Not Required at all, pretty sure there was a guy several years ago that hunted it on there own. But most people that draw the tag know nothing about the island and when help is offered they take it. The auction hunter on the other hand I can't speak for that.Why is a guide needed to hunt AI? When is someone going to draw the tag and refuse to let MB or any other outfitter take them and paste a logo on their picture. Is it required to hunt with a guide on the island?
I think I would give it hell for a few days at least, but I'm not putting in for it either, although I did one year. lolI would like to see someone get one of these deer with a Bow. Could make for a Fun Hunt. No Pressure from other Hunters at least.
It is! Really deep-forked and awesome symmetry right to left!That's a beautiful freaking deer.
I have a set of sheds off him from when he was a yearlingI'm pretty sure I saw that buck out there last year when I was hiking. He wasn't quite that big last year but was still really wide. There are some amazing deer out there.
There has been millions of dollars dumped directly back into habitat projects directly funded by the money raised from selling tags in this state. Plus funding for many other wildlife related activities, I see the potential for alot of this money to help with the cheat grass issues you talk about in the future. Could there be more done? Yes I sure there is always better ways to spend the money.I’ve been reading the same posts about Alcatraz and the Henry’s. Every year it’s the same thing. Public hunters are forced to draw tags with extremely tough draw odd tags. Battling it out for tag allotments with high dollar clients with big $ that merely purchase high dollar tags that sell for more than most of us earn in 1 to 10 years of working blue collar jobs.
The big question is whether outfitted tags that generate big $ to Utah really worth the impact they may have on the top bucks and bulls in the state? As mentioned in several posts above, does harvesting the cream of the crop critters each year by extremely successful guides and outfitters with high dollar clients have any impacts? Hopefully the tag revenue goes directly back to wildlife habitat, predator control and other sources that truly put more game on the mountain. Does anyone know if this is happening? From all the complaints I've seen about the declining mule deer herds in Utah I would say there is still a lot to be done!
Utah has brought high dollar tags that are bid upon or purchased by clients to the extreme compared to all other states. The same wealthy guys that purchase deer tags have likely purchased high dollar elk and other species tags. Wealthy hunters that have cash go hunting while thousands of average Joe’s sit on their couch and see photos of whopper bucks and bulls posted on websites each year by outfitters with deep pocket clients. I’m sure there is a lot of jealousy…and rightfully so! You notice that I said “client” and not “hunter!”
When you compare public self-guided hunters to wealthy tag purchasers/clients it is often a totally different scenario for the same Alcatraz deer tag and hunt. Having guides sit on bucks for months and having a client show up a day or 2 before the season…. and have a guide point to a monster buck to shoot. The client has probably compared the buck he shot to every available whopper buck the guides have filmed and sent the client video of in the unit and/or entire state of Utah. We’ve all seen it in the videos where the guides have given names to all these bucks and bulls. The clients likely haven’t even set eyes on these bucks until they pull the trigger.
Obviously moss and crew as well as other guides/outfitters are the guys that produce these bucks on an annual basis. Take a look at how many of the top bucks and bulls from Utah are harvested by them. Does this impact overall quality of bucks and bulls for the average Joe hunter over time? I guess I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
Hopefully, high dollar tag $ is going directly back to benefitting the majority of average Joe’s wildlife in the state of Utah as it likely was intended? Is Utah making great decisions on priority areas and projects to use all this cash? If I was an average Joe resident hunter in Utah I would be checking out where all this cash is going and make sure it truly is being directly used to impact and benefit wildlife. If this is happening, it may be a deal where average Joe’s are actually benefiting from clients deep pockets. If this isn't happening, I would urge every average Joe hunter in Utah to join together and raise your voices in a way it may improve the system.
Yes there are lists that show how much money went to each project. I know MDF, and SFW both put out lists with the projects they helped fund. As well as how much was spent.Jake, that’s great news for Utah! I think a lot of public draw hunters may be a little close minded sometimes to the benefits these big $ tags offer.
It would be really nice to know if there is a list of projects with a breakdown of the funding this revenue represents. It would be good PR to promote the positive attributes from these tags to the public that may silence some of the negativity. Without the public knowing where this $ goes leaves an incredible amount of unanswered questions and skepticism.
Jake, that’s great news for Utah! I think a lot of public draw hunters may be a little close minded sometimes to the benefits these big $ tags offer.
It would be really nice to know if there is a list of projects with a breakdown of the funding this revenue represents. It would be good PR to promote the positive attributes from these tags to the public that may silence some of the negativity. Without the public knowing where this $ goes leaves an incredible amount of unanswered questions and skepticism.
I'll be out at 9am tomorrow doing a habitat project in utah county in a high vehicle collision area. We are planting hundreds of various brush and seeding an area to try keeping deer on the safe side of the highway.Slam dunk, wow that’s incredible info and work! Thanks for posting this! The grand total going to muley projects is stunning! That’s exactly what I was talking about in my post above. It’s great to see the Muley foundation stepping up and getting a bunch of field work accomplished!!
It’s less of a genetic thing more of a wintering/ nutrition problem you only get good bucks from doe’s that had a very easy pregnancy and good nutrition you could have the same 250+ buck breed 2 doe’s and if one had a really harsh winter it’s baby would have smaller antlers than the one that had a good winter so it probably had more to do with drought and flora populations than anything elseIt would appear to be common sense that a 270" deer would be more likely to have a son that has the genetics to be a truly giant 250+ buck, than a 225" deer but I guess common sense isn't that common.
Also....genetics have absolutely nothing to do with quality of feed.Genetic is the same in the buck when he is 3 as it does when he is 7. So killing 2 of the biggest buck shouldn't do much as hurting the herd. Feed would be a bigger problem IMO.
It always pisses me off when Doyle grabs on to the horns like they're his. If you watch videos of hunts he's on, he always runs up there first and grabs onto them. For that exact reason, I make sure whoever shoots an animal is always the first to grab onto it when I'm there. I guess if you go with him, you have to expect that.
Correct.And it would also be common sense to know that a buck that lived long enough to grow to 270 has passed on plenty of those gene's as well as has his offspring. Those gene's are not gone.
Any year a new up and commer could explode into a giant.
"Genetics" don't change or alter, period!
Does YOUR children's genetics change with how well they eat from year to year?
No!
Antler growth can vary yes, but once that sperm enters the egg, the genetics are there fo
This!!!
Never understood why this is confused.
Genes are genes.
Potential is based on nutrition.
Bad genes + good nutrition= small horns
Yes, along with great genetics.The type and amount of feed is what keeps the body building BONE that means all bones so if the fawns has lot of feed it should grow good bones, If a mature buck has great feed his horns should be bigger that year of good feed and good chance they will smaller in a bad year of feed.
We do the same with cattle, feed them lots of nutrition their calves with come out stronger then a cow only fed on range grass.
Can mineral blocks help. I'm sure they can't hurt.
I have 10yr old twins. My daughter, born a minute and a half before her baby brother, is 7 inches shorter, and 35lbs lighter. They were fed the same in the womb. And fed the same as babies. They were within an inch and a couple ounces at birth.
Genetics
Yep, and their specific genetic traits will carry on to their siblings, but those genetics won't alter due to their age of procreation.I have 10yr old twins. My daughter, born a minute and a half before her baby brother, is 7 inches shorter, and 35lbs lighter. They were fed the same in the womb. And fed the same as babies. They were within an inch and a couple ounces at birth.
Genetics
JUDAS Hossy!
Isn't The Male Supposed to Be Bigger?
I Also Take it They Are Not Identical?
Bodies get bigger, yes.....Western side of state has huge grass lands few grain fields
Eastern side has Huge corn, soy beans fields, Etc.
That should have a some pull why. Look cows get bigger eating corn then just hay .
It's clear you didn't read the article...Bodies get bigger, yes.....
Yes, I certainly did.It's clear you didn't read the article...
You're working extra hard the last few days to keep your "trolling in chief" badge.No point in arguing with someone that held the best deer tag in Utah and shot a 150 class buck.
Muffs please! It comes natural!You're working extra hard the last few days to keep your "trolling in chief" badge.