AZ NONRESIDENT POLL

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schmalts

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How many of you will call it quits in AZ after you draw the tag you want the most. Are you willing to start over with no points, low odds, with the manditory cost of the lisence?
It will be interesting to see what the future will be.
I will go first, for me, I am done once i draw the elk tag. I would abandon my points for sheep, lopes, and deer because 2 of the 3 i can do elsewhere a lot cheaper and just as good or better hunting.
 
ONCE I DRAW THE ELK & DEER I,M DONE WITH ARIZONA. TOO MANY OTHER GREAT PLACES TO HUNT. THERE ARE 7.5 MILLION OTHER HUNTERS THAT WILL COME IN RIGHT BEHIND ME, ITS A GREAT STATE. YD.
 
ill probably stay in , i want a sheep really bad, the other species are a bonus. remember "a fool and his money soon part"
 
After I draw deer and elk I'm out, that goes for some hard to draw tags in other states as well. too many hunters not enough tags that's not AZ's fault. I do get tired of the rules changing all the time after you've spent over a grand to play the game, here again states like WY are worse than AZ.
 
Yep, as soon as I draw my Desert Sheep tag, I'm done ;~))

Looks like I'll eventually hunt deer and elk again there and might as well sample the antelope while I am waiting.
 
I am at 12 for Elk, I'll stay, I just hope they dont turn it into MAX oppertunity like COLO.I am not applying down there for 3 1/2 year old bulls. Probably wont start Elk again but will buy the license every year to build White Tail Points. I have a bad case of "Grey Ghost" Syndrome.
 
Well, I've been fortunate to have drawn 3 archery bull elk tags since 1993. Having experienced the elk hunting there, I'm in the game for as long as they'll allow me. :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I'll quit applying when they either close all non-resident hunting, or I die. Otherwise, I'm in it for the long haul, regardless of what I draw. Same goes for my son.
 
I'm done with Arizona been drawing there since early 60's never drawn anything. They can kiss my a## i'll take my money somewhere else.Can buy a land owner tag in either Colo. or Utah or even Nevada for what I've spent in Ariz. Good luck to all of you that are still trying there.You will need it.
 
I started applying for Deer in the Kaibab back in late 1980's and through early 1990's, nothing. The last time we, three of us, applied I think was about 1992. After we sent in to AZ, I had a co-worker come to me and ask me when the cut-off was for applying and I told him time is running out. Make the story short, I gave him the forms, 3 of them, if memory serves me right. Showed him how to fill them out for his bro-in-law and him, then he wanted to enter the same choices like we did incase we all drew and then could hunt together. DUMMY ME.
Yes, you can see what happened, those two drew and we did not after something like 5-6 years of trying.

Those two went down to Jacob Lake and got a room two days ahead of opener. Opening morning they saw two BIG BUCKS and then the dreaded words, the two bucks went down over the side into a canyon. So I said didn't you go after them, he replys, hell no. How we they suppose to get them out of there.
Man I was hot, and never spoke with him after that, what a waste of time and license for a hunt like that because they were both heavy smokers and not in the best of shape.

I quit applying after that. It wasn't long after that where I read an article written in a major magazine on the odds of drawing a tag in AZ for NR. That writer stated then, that AZ has it designed where it is almost imposible for NR to draw any goods tags, if any.

Brian
 
I am with CAelknuts on this one.

I will be pissed when I am too old to hunt and know that I have a lot more money in the bank, because I didn't take my chances on applying for NR hunts in AZ.

I hope all you guys who want out get drawn this year. It will save you money and improve my odds by some microspocic amount that probably cannot be measured in a statistical sense.

I wish I could give an economic rationalization to applying in AZ, but there is none. It is a donation, or better yet, another cost of my addiction. Now that I have fessed up to my wife that hunting is an addiction with no sensible economic basis, she says very little about the expenses I incur.

I guess I am waiting for another lottery-type draw. I drew an early rifle elk tag in a year when I applied for that just to gether another point, as I already had one premium hunt scheduled, and I was sure an early rifle application was the surest way to guarantee a bonus point. Guess who just about crapped when the tag showed up? That was before the 20% max point cap, so the likelihood of that happening again without max points is probably less than the chance of Elvis hand-delivering me the winning lottery ticket.

It is interesting to see the different perspectives. Had I any common sense, I would probably bail out when my max deer points are cashed in, but like I said, I have no good rationale for many of the hunting related expenditures I make, AZ applications included.

I hope you all draw the tags you want.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
I was considering starting to put in for AZ but the way its structed now I'm not throwing my money away with no possibility of drawing a tag till I climb to the top of the points heap in 40 years or however long it takes, other states will get my money.
 
I drew ab elk tag 6 years ago and I'm still putting in. The cost has gotten to be pretty tough to swallow though. If I draw again I think I will be done with AZ. Great state to hunt in though, just too tough to pay that kind of money.

It's always an adventure!!!
 
I drew elk last year but am right back into the game for another elk tag.

I figure I have to buy the license to apply for my deer and Ram tags so why not add a few more bucks and do elk and keep up with my antelope points.

Robb
 
I will keep playing. With only one elk point at risk, I applied for an unpopular archery tag first, and a late rifle tag second. Both of these units have better odds than most New Mexico hunts, and both have the possabilty of producing a 350 bull.
The Az Game & Fish Dept. knows with 20% of tags going to max point holders, and non residents limited to 10% or less, they just became a Pref point state. They know this will cost them a boat load of money with so many people dropping out. They will likely figure out a way to give low point holders a chance at the good tags.
 
If I ever draw my elk tag which will be most likely before my strip deer tag I would still be purchasing a license to apply for deer so why not start over on elk again?
I would be satisfied with just drawing the elk tag once in my lifetime.
I know if I did not have as many points as I do I dont think I would want to start over again unless you want to wallpaper a room with Arizona gen.licenses.that you have purchased over many,many years trying to draw the permit.
I hope they do not issue more permits in the near future the quality is why I apply year after year.
 
Schmalts, you keeping track of your poll?

We book out every year with Non-Res hunters. Some have little to no points, some have high-end points. The only reason you'd have no chance is if you aren't applying..............
 
I've already drawn my elk tag in 2003 and am now setting at 3 BP plus hunter ed point. I'll stay. Plus I have 11 for antelope, 7 for deer and 7 for sheep. I hunt the state as much as I can. I have drawn many Turkey and Javelina tags since 1996 when I started to apply. I'm in now and always.
 
Soon as i pull my bull tag, am at 7 points i am out. I have 6 deer points but the way the system is right now i will not have a chance at a good mule deer hunt for at least 25 years. They will not get my money for that odds.If they just gave me a chance i would keep going but as for right now AZ just sucks.
 
I spent all my deer and elk points in 05. I didnt even hesitate applying in 2006. I truley believe I have a better chance at drawing a quality elk tag in Az than my home state of Utah. To me thats just rediculous but thats the way it is. Ive had 2 unit 9 tags since 95. Where am I going to do that in Utah?
 
I started AZ because of the desert sheep oppertunity. So I'm in till I can get a sheep tag. I'll start over on the other species untill/if that ever happens.

Bryan
 
This is a tough one for me, I go for a low end bow tag, should draw in 3 years max. After that maybe out, there are so many new NR apps each year it is nuts. HUGE backlog of NR.

Right now I am boderline. There are a lot of good units in NM I might just start buying tags rather then hope for AZ. Also going to start hitting AK soon for bou etc.

If I do stay in desert sheep will be a key reason. AZ is the only desert tag I go for.

Anaconda is right on, notice his post.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-07 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]"I have 6 deer points but the way the system is right now i will not have a chance at a good mule deer hunt for at least 25 years. They will not get my money for that odds.If they just gave me a chance i would keep going but as for right now AZ just sucks."


Why can't you have a good mule deer hunt? Just because you don't hunt north of the ditch? Maybe all of you should do some research on other areas before you start crying that you can't get a good hunt without max points. It is just not true. If AZ sucks, then stay out.




It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I'm in for good as long as I have a chance at Elk or Sheep even after I draw the Strip Deer tag.
 
>Schmalts, you keeping track of your
>poll?
>
> Not yet, I will wait till it gets more responses.
Maybe send a link of this topic to the director of the F&G for him to see what he is doing, kind of like waving a loaded gun at his foot ready to shoot it by the way it looks. Bottom line is that if this many guys will drop out, and many wont even start, What i have been worried about for years is coming true, and that only the rich will be hunting out of state someday.
 
Screamin, it is not that it sucks, I think what guys are complaining about is the cost to odds ratio for a good tag. if a guy settles for less than the best, he would be better off going to Colorado or another state. AZ is pricing the nonres out for the odds they offer is the problem. WY is not far behind, even more so if they raise the prices.
NM is more my cup of tea. Shitty odds but you pay the big bucks when and if you draw instead of every year with just applying.
 
Problem with doing that is that it would take several thousand to say they are going to drop out to make any sort of impact on the director. In the overall picture, the people on this site who will drop out means nothing to G&F.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I hope you all drop out. Better odds for me. Arizona is the only state as far as I'm concerned who even has a clue on how to manage wildlife. I wish Utah would take lessons. As a Utah resident we're lucky to get an elk tag once in our lifetime. It's just plain stupid. All these elk running around but they have really turned it into a circus. No one gets to hunt them but the lucky few and the rich. Or should I say, no one gets to shoot them because it's a far cry from a hunt.
 
Interesting question. I do think the situation is a little out of whack at the moment, but maybe it will get better in the future. In any case, I guess I'm staying in the game for a while longer. Maybe when/if I retire and am living on a fixed income, AZ applications will become a luxury I will no longer be able to afford. And if I ever drew a sheep tag I might consider bailing out, but that's not likely to happen.
 
Once I draw an elk tag, I am also done. Hopefully only 3 more years to go...............$150+ a point is BS.

Lien2
 
Arizona has great speed goats, however very hard to draw. Realistically one in a life time. Archery is easier. Hunt success is 10-20%. Early rifle and the best archery and muzzle tags are very slim odds. Under 5% for most units. Still some good bulls in less popular units. Deer tags north of the ditch are impossible with out max points. Sheep tag is very hard to draw and most non residents under the current situation, who put in for 20-25 years won't draw. You can't draw without trying. I have 7 points for everything. My 13 yr old boy has 3 points for everything. I'll stay in the game for acouple more years and see what happens. Hopefully, they will change a few things and allow even a small chance for the best units with out max points. If not. I will put my money in better opportunities else where. 200 dollars a year in license and application fees add up over the years. Good luck in the draws.
 
Schmalts,

My father-in-law and I both have 10 elk points and are trying to draw an archery tag. As soon as we draw we are DONE! We are in too far to quit now. I feel like I have waited my turn to go to AZ elk hunting and will enjoy the opportunity when it comes. I personally feel it would be foolish to try and start over again. It's not worth it for me. Good luck to everone, residents and non-residents, in this year's draw. I hope you get your tag!
 
I have never put in for Arizona and I don't know if I will from the sounds of things. At least in Arizona you can put in for more than one species (unlike Utah). I am gathering deer points in Utah and its going to be hard once I draw to start over and put in for elk or deer here again with the odds. If I knew some decent units in Arizona and wouldnt have to wait 15,20,25,30 years than I would probably put in. I will do some research before I decide for sure though. I think Arizona, Utah and a couple other states should make it so your bonus points are transferable when you die. Then at lest someone in my family would have a chance at drawing.
 
I will be in for the long haul. I should draw 9 within the next two years, but I will be right back in building points.
 
I hunt javelina and turkey there fairly often anyway. I feel drawing the 13B deer tag would be a blessing, not only for the tag, but the freedom to apply for coues deer. And of course, a sheep tag is what I really want. I got my early bull tag a few years ago, now I can just forget that and go for easier to draw elk hunts and like that. Being stuck in the top pool is truly a mixed blessing........ Really, all points systems suck!
 
I'm in for the long haul, but I take a much different approach than most of you. The sport of hunting...not just killing 200" muleys or 400" bulls...is my passion. I've bought an AZ license for one hunt or another (including javelina) for the last 8 years - basically since I got a job and could afford to buy a license and a plane ticket. Sure I'd love a Strip tag or a Unit 9 tag, but I'm not going to give up hunting there for the next 15 years to get it. Maybe I'm a glass half full guy, but I choose not to whine about the limited NR opportunities down there, and instead choose to figure out how I can get quality hunts on a somewhat regular basis. In the time it takes someone to draw a Strip tag, I may have a couple B&C coues or desert muleys by hunting in less popular units. And it's not like I hunt to get my pic in magazines...I hunt because I love it out there. No way I'd give up hunting all those years just for one shot in a unit that simply gives me the best odds in any particular year of getting a trophy buck. In the time it takes you guys to draw those tags, I'll have hunted rifle deer several times (already have drawn coues tags, including a sweet December tag, in 2 of the last 7 years). And now I'm chasing coues and desert muleys with the bow EVERY year. I've got 7 elk points, but I'm not holding out for 8, 9 or 10. There are other units with sweet bulls that I'll draw much sooner.
 
WAcoueshunter, WHILE YOU CONCENTRATE ON ARIZONA ALOT OF OTHER HUNTERS ARE HUNTING 12-15 OTHER STATES AND CANADA ...AND NOT REALLY MISSING OUT ON MUCH AT ALL. THEY ARE HUNTING TROPHYS OF ALL SPECIES ELSEWHERE AND ARE NOT REALLY STUCK ON ONE STATE. THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME....BUT WHAT EVER WORKS FOR YOU. JUST ANOTHER WAY TO SEE THINGS, YD.
 
Need to be in every game, thats my theory. Id takes your license fee and you get nothing in return if you don't draw, Ore gives 2 1/2 % of their deer & elk tags and 1 1/2% of there antelope tags to NR, Ut gives too many tags to auction, Nv wants $1,200.00 for an elk tag, Co landowner tags are over priced, and Az slants the odds too much in the direction of Max point holders. Guess if I boycotted all of them I'd hunt big game about once every 10 years.

To me the price of playin these different games is part of hunting, "it is what it is." The app and tag price will always be less than the costs of going on the hunts. We can all whine about it or we could be researching NM, Nv and CO to apply for the best units with the best chance of drawing.

I'll leave this to go figure some draw odds versus trophy potential.
 
"but I choose not to whine about the limited NR opportunities down there"

Thats a great way to look at it, the only thing is there are a lot more than "limited NR opportunities" in AZ. You state how much hunting you do down there, how is that limited? I like the fact that you actually see how you can maximize your opportunities.





It's Bush's fault!!!
 
>"but I choose not to whine
>about the limited NR opportunities
>down there"
>
>Thats a great way to look
>at it, the only thing
>is there are a lot
>more than "limited NR opportunities"
>in AZ. You state how
>much hunting you do down
>there, how is that limited?
>I like the fact that
>you actually see how you
>can maximize your opportunities.
>
>

Couldn't agree more. Perhaps I could have phrased it better. As a whole, I certainly don't think there are "limited NR opportunities" in AZ. There are just limited opportunities if you choose to limit yourself to the super primo tags. But if you look outside the box, there are a lot of good hunts available to NRs.

Interestingly, I saw a rumor on another site saying that total AZ 2007 applications for elk/antelope were down 40% from 2006, like 51,000 apps relative to 86,000 apps last year. A couple of factors at work here, but apparently the laws of supply and demand apply to hunting as well.
 
>
> WAcoueshunter, WHILE
>YOU CONCENTRATE ON ARIZONA ALOT
>OF OTHER HUNTERS ARE HUNTING
>12-15 OTHER STATES AND CANADA
>...AND NOT REALLY MISSING OUT
>ON MUCH AT ALL.
> THEY ARE HUNTING TROPHYS
>OF ALL SPECIES ELSEWHERE AND
>ARE NOT REALLY STUCK ON
>ONE STATE. THERE IS
>MORE THAN ONE WAY TO
>PLAY THIS GAME....BUT WHAT EVER
>WORKS FOR YOU. JUST
>ANOTHER WAY TO SEE THINGS,
> YD.


YD - seriously, my goal in life is to have the time and money to play the game that way! My biggest limiting factor right now is time...sure would hate to draw three primo September tags out of those 12-15 states/provinces, but not be able to hunt them all because I can't get the time off work. Case in point, last year I applied in three states and pulled two archery bull tags. Only got to hunt two days here on my WA bull tag because I had a 16A tag in NM to attend to, and couldn't get the vacation for both. That sucked, and I'd really like to keep that from happening too often. So for now, I'm carefully playing the odds in those three states, then supplementing years when I don't draw with some good OTC options. Yes, I could apply to different states than AZ and NM, but those are the easiest for me at this point, if for now other reason than I know them better. This year, if I don't draw, my OTC backup plan is to archery hunt roosevelt bulls on the Olympic peninsula. Never done that, but should be a cool hunt for a different critter.
 
WAcoues.....YOUR A MAN WITH A PLAN, & YOU THINK WAY AHEAD...THATS WHAT IT TAKES. YES, GETTING 2 PRIMO TAGS FOR THE SAME TIME SLOT REALLY BITES. GOOD LUCK & HAPPY HUNTING....YD.
 
"Interestingly, I saw a rumor on another site saying that total AZ 2007 applications for elk/antelope were down 40% from 2006, like 51,000 apps relative to 86,000 apps last year. A couple of factors at work here, but apparently the laws of supply and demand apply to hunting as well."


Check out this topic in the elk forum. Its a false rumor.




It's Bush's fault!!!
 
>Need to be in every game,
>thats my theory. Id
>takes your license fee and
>you get nothing in return
>if you don't draw, Ore
>gives 2 1/2 % of
>their deer & elk tags
>and 1 1/2% of there
>antelope tags to NR, Ut
>gives too many tags to
>auction, Nv wants $1,200.00 for
>an elk tag, Co landowner
>tags are over priced, and
>Az slants the odds too
>much in the direction of
>Max point holders. Guess
>if I boycotted all of
>them I'd hunt big game
>about once every 10 years.
>
>
>To me the price of playin
>these different games is part
>of hunting, "it is what
>it is." The app
>and tag price will always
>be less than the costs
>of going on the hunts.
> We can all whine
>about it or we could
>be researching NM, Nv and
>CO to apply for the
>best units with the best
>chance of drawing.
>
>I'll leave this to go figure
>some draw odds versus trophy
>potential.


Well, you say that AZ slants too much to max point holders, but in actuality, Wyoming and Utah are far worse in that aspect. I think 50% of tags go to Max point holders in Ut and WY 25%.
 
Iv'e had three North of the ditch deer tags and will likely get my second great bull tag with in the next two years. Yes, I will continue to put in after I draw. For the record, I live in Utah, I've had one limited entry deer tag and will never get a quailty elk tag. I'm not aloud to put in for more than one species. Utah is FUBARED! Utah {PEAY) needs to re-think what the heck is going on. Or maybe The masses should wake up and quit supporting the mess. Just my thoughts for the day!
 
I'm one who quit this year after figuring the odds of drawing versus the cost of staying. All the western states are in a headlong rush to follow the lead of the most greedy states, it's pretty obvious it's only going to get worse. Most of my focus in n-r is shifting eastward for whitetails they haven't joined in the rush to kill the goose that lays the golden egg on their doorstep every year. As far as Az. in particular archery deer is the only way to go for this hunter in the future. Best of luck to those who stick with it.
 
I'll stay in until they won't let me. I'd rather hunt elk than anything else. Problem is, they keep reducing the tags in the archery area that I put in for. Went from 250 to 100. A friend drew it twice with 3 pts each time & now we can't draw it with 7 points.
 
it is good to see some of you acknowledging that AZ is still a pretty good place for nonresidents.

the fact of the matter is, AZ has some quality hunting. as good or better than most western states.

historically, all things considered, AZ has been a gonga deal for nonresidents (price, quality, ability, etc). they say that by the time a fad hits AZ it is not a fad anymore. so now that the AZ G & F has woke up and decided to manage nonresidents similar to other western states, all the nonresidents cry foul.

guess what, if you want to hunt AZ and feel how AZ treats nonresidents is unfair compared to other western states, you are free to move here and apply to your current home state as a nonresident. from what I have read, there are some other western states that treat nonresidents worse than AZ does.

one final comment, for those of you unwilling to accept change, there is a really good book out there that you should read. it is called "Who Moved My Cheese". the world is constantly changing. you can do one of two things. you can either sit in front of your monitor and complain about it or you can go out and find where your cheese got moved to. the choice is yours. whether you like it or not, the world is going to change. you can either accept the change and adapt to it or get left behind. GOOD LUCK.
 
Been thinking about putting in for AZ deer for the past few years, but considering how bad the odds are I probably never will. But, oh how I'd love to own a strip tag.

Mike
 

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