AZ Response to Fed road Closures...

AZStickman

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I love Arizona...... Terry


Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:18 pm | Updated: 4:29 pm, Thu Jun 20, 2013.
Associated Press

Gov. Jan Brewer has signed off on a mini-sagebrush rebellion by signing a bill barring state and local law enforcement officers from enforcing off-highway vehicle laws on closed federal lands.

HB2551 was enacted in response to the federal government's closure of forest roads and trails. It makes state OHV laws unenforceable in those areas. County sheriffs normally enforce state laws in those areas under agreements with the federal government.

The Senate approved the bill on a 19-10 vote on May 21 and the House passed it on a 34-25 vote a week earlier.

Republican Sen. Chester Crandell of Heber says he wrote the bill to protest closing roads to hunters and other recreational users. The U.S. Forest Service says closures are needed because of increasing off-road vehicle travel.
 
I don't have any experience in the area in questin so I will leave the discussion on whether this is good or bad to those that do. However, I my experience I have never seen a road closure that made the hunting worse.
 
I have to agree with mulecreek; I'll leave this discussion to those who have knowledge and who it affects. Also, in most case a closed road/trail is a good thing for wildlife.

BUT,
I can tell you that if the Feds had their way, we'd all be locked out of the National Forests and they'd throw away the key. I've been forced to work with the forest Service (Feds) over the last 18 years and frankly they wish we would stop all forms of recreation on "their" property... including but not limited to hunting! They cringe when the subject of hunting or shooting is on the agenda.
About anything we can do to push-back against the Feds is a good thing!
Just my opinion without knowing more about this case,
Zeke
 
thank god for the feds,in Utah, or their wouldn't be any public hunting in Utah,
 
Maybe your experience with them has been different than mine.
Feel free to share.

I thank God for National Forest property, that's for sure. I just wish the managers had a little different attitude toward hunting... from what I've seen.

Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-13 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]
Here's a copy of the site showing the Motor Vehicle Use Maps http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/ohv_maps.shtml

Starting last year the Forest Service "closed" many roads to vehicular use. These are not wildcat trails and such but rather perfectly good roads. They also imposed limits on where you can camp creating camping corridors in which you must camp within 300' of an "open" road. outside of the corridor you must camp no further back than 30' from the road. They also do not allow you to take a vehicle off road to recover game. But if I remember correctly you can still go off road for fire wood cutting with a permit.

While I am in great shape and enjoy good health, and this potentially opens up a lot of areas I can hunt with less pressure, assuming everyone follows the rules, this is not so great for young kids, people with handicaps or the elderly hunters who share the woods with me.

The Forest service in their infinite wisdom has also chosen not to mark any of the closed roads as such but rather provide maps and leave it up to you to figure out what is open and what is not. While I am good at reading maps even I find them a bit confusing.

I have followed the rules to a "T" since this was implemented, abandoning campsites I have used for many years, while watching others move into them, and walking in on closed roads even though I have other guys driving past me as I walk. These restrictions are a joke and really have nothing to do with preserving the forest not to mention the fact that enforcement is nonexistent, if even possible. This is nothing but legal harrassment.......

I applaud our legislature and Governor for their stance...... Terry
 
I love our state legislature and Governor Brewer. I can't wait 'til the feds give amnesty to all the illegal aliens and they start coming out of the woodwork to claim their welfare. Sheriff Joe will have a list of names and addresses to start his identity theft investigations on all those that have been using somebody's social security number to get around E-Verify. There will be a whole new class of felons in tent city that will be wishing they went back across the border before they started getting all the benefits of citizenship, including jail time.
 
Road closures are not on my radar. I hunt where and how the rules allow.

I do absolutely hate when federal rules prevent the maintenance of water tanks used by wildlife on public properties. Water tanks are often the key factor to larger populations of mammals on arid lands. Water tank creation and maintenance has been an issue as some public land has changed designations. Presidents leaving office tend to declare monuments and parks. Is ironic but sadly predictable that politicians make for poor wildlife biologists.
 
For anyone that was forced to camp less than 30' from the road last year this is great news. Camping that close to a main dirt road is dangerous when you have small kids. Glad to see common sense prevail for once.
 
zeke , I don't like the forst service, in in duchsne co,, . you might as well be dealing with a rancher on his place, but I deal with worse, and the state is way worse,,,
 
Well if the feds won't enforce immigration laws in Arizona, why should Arizona enforce NF rules? Pay back?:)

Thanks for the link Terry.

Eel
 
I know a lot of Arizona citizens who were very happy with the U.S. Forest Service eleven years ago when they paid 6,000 firefighters to fight the Rodeo Chediski fire that burnt 600+ houses. I will bet the people in Colorado are glad thousands of firefighters are there paid for by the U.S. Govt. That is why I pay my taxes. I agree that less roads =better hunting.
 
Re immigration laws -look it up and see which administration has deported more illegal aliens Obama by far more than Bush and remember which president signed the last immigration bill and promised no amnesty and secure borders. Ronald Regan-just a fact
 
Regan signed the bill because the Democrat controlled Senate promised to close and secure the borders. They lied. Just a fact.
 
Having hunted elk antlers in AZ for over a decade I have seen the cause and effect of off road abuse. As usual the response to said abuse went way too far. When will everyone use a little common sense. Probably never. By the way, it's not the USFS calling the shots on this deal. It's the AZ Game & Fish and their motives are less than honorable.

Feel free to chime in HUNT24X7. You know more about this issue than anybody.

Slick

"The Road goes on forever & the Party never Ends"
 
Well slickrock we need to see some clarification on the issue. It's the forest service employees writing the citations not the AZG&F to the larger extent and it is the forest services management plan. So we need some information here to help everyone understand. When the governor is telling state run agencies not to enforce the law that seems to indicate it's federal in nature. By the way it was a matter of public record that the AZGFD did ask the forest service to allow more access for hunters last year and the forest service denied their request. So please post up what information you have so the hunters in AZ can know the real story and hopefully get it fixed. Thanks.
 
It is all the U.S. Forest service nation wide. The law that mandated this was enacted by the Secretary of Agriculture appointed by President Bush in 2005
 
I think you'll find that the public input used to decide how the travel plan was implemented was done in many cases after Bush was gone especially in AZ. The green lobby had a huge impact on just how the plan was implemented in many forests and the hunters and general public had little input in the process, The fact most were blind sided is proof. Do you think the majority of end users would agree to shutting down the majority of roads in any national forest creating more issues and only allow camping 30 ft. off the road in most areas? How many camping spots were closed altogether here that have been used for more than 50- 75+ years actually creating more congestion by campers?

Bush didn't do that the green lobby did and the fact you're losing access to more public lands in AZ is proof. Are you aware in some forests in AZ it is written into their bylaws that it's unlawful to fire a firearm or bow in a national forest? Think about that? Firearms are fire hazards in some seasons, but a bow? Oh and if you can't shoot a gun or bow how can you hunt? I'm sure it's a simple oversight......

This is exactly how things have been done since Clinton was in office and a lot of the things we see today were started on his watch. Public input is a driver and the green lobby writes thousands of letters where the hunters and general public don't even know things are being changed. That's how a simple minority is able to change things on so many issues where the majority is actually given little input. Some special interest groups actually pay folks to write support letters to show they have more support on issues.

Doesn't it seem odd to you that with 90% supporting gun control the bill was soundly defeated by 10%. Politicians use the public support / opinion card to push legislation through to suit their agendas even though in most cases they don't have the support they claim. A stack of letters from special interest groups has been used to take away many hunters right's along with telling an uniformed voting public that protective legislation will take away their right to vote and raise taxes even when it's sole intent was to protect hunting and fishing for all.

I think it's time to actually sit up and smell the coffee and see who's behind the legislation when it's implemented rather than keep trying to blame Bush for everything that's happened since the start of time. If you think Roosevelt would be happy with how the public has been taken off their lands I think you'd be sadly mistaken.

We own it, pay for it's upkeep and support the salaries of those caring for the resources and our lands not the special interest groups that seek to keep us away from them or prohibit their use. Special interest groups don't give a damn about taking away American jobs or taking away your right to use our public land. If you want to point a finger let's look at the real culprits here and Bush actually set up committees to help overcome some of these issues those of us in the sporting world faced as hunters and fisherman.

I don't recall Clinton or Obama doing anything along those lines but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. All one has to do is look west at California and it's easy to see what they have in store for the rest of the country, it just takes time for them to get enough folks in other states to change the climate to make it just how they think you should live, all done behind closed doors with that overwhelming public support argument. They aren't having those folks sign pro wolf or wilderness designation petitions at the Grand Canyon with all those foreign signatures because they want to improve the hunting in Kaibab or allow better access to see the Bab!
 
The majority of the roads are not being closed. The forests are closed now and target shooting is banned as a fire hazard. Would you agree that the Bush Administration is the one that started this new travel plan. Which forest in AZ is banning bow hunting during the fall season?
 
Boskee - You are close. The laws are created by Congress which turns over the implementation to unelected bureaucrats. The greenies have infiltrated the Forest Service, National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service. They need no lobbyists to force their agenda on us and there is little we can do. Symptom of a government grown too large for proper oversight and control.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-13 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]That's not what I meant to say but I can see how you read it that way. I meant to say a knowing public wouldn't have agreed to all the items I mentioned restricting their usage. But you may want to find a few old forest service maps and see just how many roads were left off or restricted in some fashion and given the aggregate for any change it would be the majority in many cases. The camping restriction alone in many cases are so confusing that the map is overwhelming, and hardly user friendly to most people.


Yes the Bush administration did go along with the original recommendations from the forest service but given that in many areas the implementation was done after he left office the plans were changed to coincide with new ideas, agendas, and public input. No legislation that covers more than one administration usually remains the same as to it's original intent and scope.

They did have some other less restrictive travel plans that didn't get implemented for some reason. Maybe you'd like to comment on that? I didn't say any forest was closed to bow hunting but that doesn't mean the language wasn't written into their usage doctrines for some reason. Hunting right's groups discovered the language and brought it to our attention. Given that we've had suits filed to stop building water holes in desert areas that benefit all wildlife it's not a stretch to believe they could have conceived such a thing for future usage and interpretation. After all our forest service does take it's direction from political appointees doesn't it. So to think they may not have seen fit to write something in for future usage isn't that inconceivable is it.

Fact is we're being removed from many of our lands and it's not coincidental is it? I know you can blame Bush but I'll keep looking to the other guys the ones that keep offering up our right's while you keep your head in the ground thinking it's all being done to benefit hunting. We'll see which party passes most of the restrictive legislation and as of this moment, it wasn't Bushes party was it. I rest my case and the facts don't lie do they? It's all part of that antigun agenda disguised so that even those within the party won't believe they'd do it, yea right. You keep believing your guns aren't the ultimate goal even when your President openly admitted it in public, I prefer to take him and his ilk at their word. By the way how much are your health insurance costs going up at work this year and next? It appears that wasn't the only lie they told was it.
 
In then last two years, my health insurance dropped $4 one year and increased $4 in the other year. I hope that so many free loaders start paying for their medical services that my costs go down. Have you ever asked a hospital administer why aspirin costs three dollars a tablet? They will tell you because 50% of people do not pay their bills. I am tired of paying other peoples hospital bills.

In the past five years what action has the president done to take even one of your hand guns or hunting rifles away?

Travel restrictions were needed because of abuses by hunters in many cases and the general public in others. There were 75 citations issued in Apache Sitegreaves forest for campfires during Memorial Day weekend. How often have you walked into a Wilderness area or an area closed for habitat or wildlife improvement and someone drives by you on an atv or a truck. Abuses that why this is needed.

I do not have any complaints. My 401 k is up 140% since Obama was elected. I can buy a Chevy truck since they are in business and thriving. They are hiring workers right now and running triple shifts. Real estate market is way up since he was elected. The financial markets are strong and lending money again at low interest rates. Consumer confidence is at a 5 year high. Corporate profits are the highest they have ever been as a percentage of GDP. Taxes as a percentage of GDP is also at an all time high. Osama is history. Things are good
 
Then how would you in your infinite wisdom think that covering 30,000,000 uninsured people many of whom are higher risk individuals is possibly going to make your premiums go down? The only way your premiums have gone down is if your coverage has dropped or you are working for the government or your employer decided not to pass the premium increase on to you. If they didn't go up, call the HR department and ask them if the premiums increased, I'll bet you they did increase. You're in the minority on this so count your blessings.

Just about every single employer in America is facing increased premiums on their health care plans because adding more participants increases the expense they have to pay out in coverage. I can assure you your premiums not increasing is not the norm. You must be unaware of the recent pressures in Congress because they finally discovered that there isn't going to be enough money to fund the program and need more tax dollars to subsidize Obamacare. Who is going to pay for all those people unable to afford coverage? It isn't going to be the President it's going to be the American taxpayer, I believe you fall into that category.

In the past 5 years what action has the President taken to take my guns away? Nothing but that's not the case in many other states where sales of many types of weapons used for hunting were banned. Check out the changes in the gun laws in CA., NJ., NY., Co. and I'm sure a few other states had changes made that effected gun owners just like you. Why in California they're trying to pass a law that requires that gun owners have to pay a fee or tax just to be able to buy ammo. Many states are proposing taxes on all firearms sales. Why don't you take a look at Feinsteins list of proposed weapons she wants banned and tell us none of them are used for hunting. Why in Colorado Gov. Hickenlooper even went after some shotguns that have been made for decades and disallowed them for sale. So the protection afforded under our constitution apply's to ALL Americans not just you or me. It's up to you and I to protect the other guys rights, so ours doesn't get compromised in the end. I suggest you actually read the second amendment and try to understand what it actually means. There's a good reason why they set this country up that way and it's served us well.

Travel restrictions, well lets look at things from a different perspective. They don't close down the freeways or banks because we have individuals that choose to break the law by speeding or robbing them do we. We use enforcement to be able to use both of them. Do you think if the forest service was actually enforcing fire restrictions in the past decade that it would be such a large problem today? Enforcement is a very effective tool when you use it ask any police officer if it works. I have no issues with them banning campfires when necessary.

You may be fine with closing things down so you can walk into areas to hunt but what about the guy that cant? Think he deserves to be shut out when in reality he's spent thousands more dollars supporting the system than a younger guy has? Thousands more dollars in permit fees and tax dollars over his lifetime only to be denied access because some idiot doesn't want to play by the rules? Maybe that guy hasn't been drawn to hunt for 6-10 years yet he paid his money so the other guy could go. Why deprive the right of the guy that funded the system and paid for his kids for decades and didn't break the rules his right to hunt on the land his tax dollars supported. He didn't destroy anything yet he's paying the price. Part of the Forest services issues they brought on themselves through lax enforcement because frankly most guys didn't go to college to write tickets. Part of the reason this country is in the mess we're in is because we're not enforcing the laws we have.

Abuse is a funny word but in most cases if you teach end users it's not going to be tolerated it usually stops. We've had motorized travel in our forests for decades and they're still there and many of the roads have been open for more than 50-75 years. The general public by and large abides by the law if not you wouldn't be hunting today. So don't tell me it won't work when there are decades showing that it can and does work if you change the behavior itself. But when the green lobby gets involved they are going to save us from ourselves and things get a little out of hand.

Good for you your 401K is doing well but you obviously seem unaware of all the 23,000,000 million folks who are out of work. They want to work it's just that their jobs got shipped off shore and that right there started this country on the downward spiral we're in. The government is 16 trillion in debt because they won't manage their expenses to their revenues and then we keep offering more programs we can't afford. Isn't it wonderful they can ask you to ante up more to fund their abuses of the system. If you ran your household the way they run our government you'd have been bankrupt several times.

Imagine that your kids most likely will never pay off the debt they've accumulated in their lifetime unless we create millions upon millions of more jobs. Government is good at creating red ink but is dependent on TAXES for essentially every single dollar they spend. Since they're moving the retirement age out what are they doing about paying off the debt.

You seem to be under some illusion that things are good well I hate to burst your bubble but if we were doing so well we wouldn't be in the deficit every year since your guy took office. Drive around and look at all those vacant spaces that held businesses a short time ago that ARE BOARDED UP ALL OVER OUR STATE and nation. That's hardly your fairy tale your envisioning, that's the grim reality of where we really are. People make money in the stock market in good and bad times and truthfully most still haven't made back all they would have accumulated had the market not crashed. Those are not the signs of a flourishing economy.

We're seeing signs things are improving but when your government is printing money creating more red ink, because they don't have tax revenues to cover the expenses things are hardly rosey. Interest rates are low because the government is keeping the lid on them not because of a healthy economy. Most retired Americans are depleting their savings because they can't get a decent rate of return on their savings and they counted on those funds interest as a source of retirement. What's going to happen when those funds run out for millions more..... yep you've got quite a grasp on things just not too much understanding about the stark reality of the situation. I'm glad you're doing well in spite of our differences of opinion but many Americans aren't riding in that boat.
 
AZBullhunter......you can stop the hunt..... You have found the Bull.... Eaten a full share and now it is spewing out of you..... Terry
 
You seem to think all roads are going to be closed. Look at the maps. In unit 3 c I do not think you can find an area where there is more than one mile between open roads. Open roads everywhere.

When the uninsured get sick, have an accident or have a heart attack -who pays their bills? guys like me who have insurance. Twenty three million out of work who want to work who are you kidding.You really believe that. You are naive. You should have sent some of your friends to Yuma a couple of months ago there were hundreds of jobs available to pick melons.A number of my friends are in construction and everyone is swamped with work working 6-7 days a week. No shortage of work if you want to work. Jobs going overseas yes that has been happening for many years not just recently and because of it we have no inflation. You should have elected Trump he was going to solve that.

We are in debt and if we had not been chasing non existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq we would not be having this discussion. We spend 4x as much on defense as China and as much as the next ten countries combined so that is where your tax dollars go. Our tax dollars go to fight forest fires, rebuild Joplin and the aftermath of Sandy. Do you have a problem with that.
I think we are doing much better now than we were would you agree? How about corporate profits doing better tell them to spend some of their cash

Would you like to see an open forest where you can drive an atv anywhere? Not me walk a little bit it might do you some good. How is the housing market doing where you live?

As far as retirees I earned 5% on my bond funds the last 5 years. So you want to raise interest rates real high so retirees can earn a little more interest and cause the housing market and auto business to slow down as it is doing real good.

All of you Dodge Diesel fans keep buying that Italian truck. Sorry Boskee but this is a global economy see where your Ford truck engine is made probably in Hermosillo Mexico. That is the world we live in.

As far as stock market you are right people who were in the market when it crashed under GW have not recovered their money. Luckily I got out when he was elected and got back in when he left.

I am glad we agree that the president has done nothing-made no attempt to take away our hunting rifles and handguns. What has happened is a lot of paranoid individuals have driven up the price of ammo and created shortages that should not have happened.

I understand the second amendment but have you read what the Supreme Court has said about it. You still can not have fully auto machine guns and sawed off shotguns. Does that violate the second amendment?
 
Boskee do you have health insurance? If so why should not others have access to it whose employers do not offer it. Actually there is health insurance for everyone now it is called the emergency room unfortunately it is very expensive that is why an aspirin is $3
 
Can we move this to the political forum??

Facts might not be as they seem, or as they are alledged......carry on!

Debate there will be better served in this case.....someone could be incorrect?????
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-29-13 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]
No they're not You are way off base about a lot of what you posted. Insurance company's don't pay any claims for people who don't have coverage unless they have liability, but our taxes do and rates are higher for services because on nonpayment. This has become political.

Here look at this it may help you understand the federal budget issues we face. I'm done on this thread. Good luck to you.

http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/EW5IdwltaAc?rel=0

Here's another site to help you see numbers on Debt & unemployment we face

www.usdebtclock.org
 
I agree you are done as you were done 4 posts ago since you did not address what I say are facts and I cited them and all you said was I was wrong no supporting evidence. That is the main problem with most of the posters all opinions no facts just derogatory statements.
 
Really, Frankly there isn't enough time. If you think melon pickers are going to keep you building houses or buying new trucks you only cemented your own position. Melon pickers while important, usually get credits because they fall below the threshold for minimum wage or income credits for dependents. By the way your taxes are paying for that too, so because they don't make enough income you're subsidizing their income with your tax dollars. Many of them get checks for thousands of dollars more than they pay in taxes from our government. That's why we need good paying jobs to actually fix things.

So why don't you tell me more about how beneficial it is to have more melon picking jobs! I think the market drives the demand for melons and since we're competing against foreign interests on that maybe the world economy you tout isn't in our best interest when it comes to melons. By the way aren't they seasonal? So when they go back on unemployment after the melons are picked, you're paying for them until the next crop comes in.

I don't think melon picking is the answer, but if I'm wrong I'm sure you'll tell me. What's wrong can't dispute the facts on the links I gave you.... isn't reality a #####.
 
Arizbullsh!tter - Get on the internet, research the facts and see how it all went down with amnesty with Regan. The border security was supposed to happen. Not an opinion. Seems the same mistake is happening now. Bunch of new voters for your side though.
 
AZbullhunter. Here's another recent article to support what I told you. It explains things in detail yet it doesn't expound on interest rates for new cars being built into the cost of the vehicle etc and rates being low because the fed is keeping them low hoping to stimulate growth.

I'm trying to be fair with you and this article really lays things out pretty well and actually answers many of your questions and explains why. It was on the internet today.


*****************************************************************

Here you go

Car sales are on a roll, but the economy? Not so much


John W. Schoen, CNBC




The economy has multiple personality disorder.

The nation's auto companies are reveling in their strongest monthly sales in about five years. The housing market is rebounding. And manufacturing is not far behind.

Job growth, however, remains stuck in first gear, creating an intractable problem for the almost 12 million Americans out of work and giving companies little incentive to raise pay. Overall economic growth is feeble at best.

So why the discord?

Four years after the official end of the Great Recession, U.S. car makers are on a roll. Both Ford and Chrysler Tuesday posted strong sales gains in June, as U.S. consumers continue to flock to showrooms to replace worn out clunkers and snap up higher-efficiency new models.


The ongoing pickup in housing construction and a boom in U.S. oil production also is helping car makers boost sales of light trucks. Ford posted a 13 percent overall sales gain on strong demand for its F-Series pickup truck, which had its strongest sales since 2005.

Chrysler said U.S. sales in June rose eight percent on strong demand for its two best-selling vehicles, the Ram full-size pickup truck and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV. GM reported its best sales for any month since 2008.

Car makers and industry analysts expect the sales momentum to continue, thanks to strong pent-up demand, easier financing terms from lenders and rising consumer confidence. Overall industry sales in June are expected to show a rise of up to eight percent. They are also on track to hit levels not seen since before the financial collapse of 2008 sent sales plunging and forced Chrysler and General Motors into bankruptcy the following year.

"The fundamentals for continued industry gains in new-vehicle sales remain intact," Chrysler U.S. sales chief Reid Bigland said in a statement.

The rebound in manufacturing continues to spread beyond the auto sector. New orders for factory goods rose for a second straight month in May, the Commerce Department said Tuesday, as businesses and those consumers who have a job boost spending on everything from factory robots to new refrigerators, respectively.

Sales of household appliances and other manufacturer goods are getting a strong lift from the rebound in the housing market, which continues to show strength in many parts of the country. Overall construction spending rose a half percent in May.

Much like the pent-up demand for cars, the four-year collapse of home sales has created a backlog of demand. Low mortgage rates and improved job prospects are helping millions of new households buy their first home. Rising home prices are freeing millions of existing homeowners from their underwater mortgages.

And while the trend is up, some industry observers think the housing rebound is just getting started.

?I think we have obviously made a huge recovery in the industry,? Ara Hovnanian, Hovnanian Enterprises CEO, told CNBC. ?But I think we're in the early innings of the total recovery.?

The latest data help demonstrate just how much farther the industry has to go before it recoups the ground lost to the housing collapse. Builders broke ground in May on just over 900,000 housing units ? less than half the 2.2 million unit pace at the peak of the housing boom in 2006.

Weak recovery
That helps explain why, despite strong, sustained growth in sales of homes and new cars, the overall recovery remains the weakest in decades. After a strong fourth-quarter finish to 2012, gross domestic product slowed to a 1.8 percent annual pace in the first quarter.


That lackluster growth is expected to continue this summer. Based on the latest monthly data, forecasters at Barclays Research see growth in the second quarter tracking at an anemic 1.6 percent annual rate.

The slowdown can be partly blamed on the ongoing federal budget cuts known as the sequester, which cut $85 billion worth of spending over seven months. Consumers? budgets have also been crimped by a 2 percent, budget-balancing increase in payroll taxes that took effect January 1.

But the real headwind remains a stubbornly high jobless rate, which has put a much bigger damper on consumer spending, which is the source of some 70 percent of U.S. economic growth.

Four years after the recession ended, the pace of hiring remains weaker than in any of the last half dozen recessions, even as industries like autos and housing stage a convincing rebound.

Car sales continue to rebound, but jobs growth isn't keeping pace.
CNBC

Car sales continue to rebound, but jobs growth isn't keeping pace.

Though housing starts have more than doubled from the recession?s depths, the number of residential construction jobs has all but flat-lined. Even as car sales have zoomed head by nearly 75 percent from the recession trough, hiring is up only 25 percent.

With demand expanding gradually, many producers of goods and services have been squeezing more output from their existing work force. Investing in a new factory robot or handing out Blackberrys to extend work hours is a lot cheaper than creating new a full-time job with benefits.

As long as demand continues to expand only gradually, that pace of incremental hiring is likely to continue, according to Joel Naroff, chief economist Naroff Economic Advisors

?Many businesses can essentially can meet the growing demand with limited hiring and improved productivity,? he said. ?That just extends out the slow growth environment, and as long as you have slow growth it takes a long time for the unemployment rate to come down.?

A high jobless rate also gives companies little incentive to raise wages, said Naroff, which holds back growth in consumer spending and further feeds into the cycle of stagnation.

The government will provide its latest reading on the state of the job market on Friday. Economists expect the economy to have created about 165,000 jobs in June, about in line with recent months, and for the jobless rate to have dropped to about 7.5 percent.

The current recovery has also been held back by the widespread damage to household wealth inflicted by the mortgage bust and the 2008 collapse of the financial system. More than $7 trillion in household wealth was wiped out after house and stock prices plunged; that hole has only recently been filled in.

And while that lost wealth has been recovered overall, much of it has been concentrated among the wealthiest households, leaving many other Americans with little savings and meager wage growth.

John W. Schoen is a reporter at CNBC.com. Follow him on Twitter @johnwschoen
 
There is nothing in his article that I am not aware of. Automation whether it be in the auto business or no more travel agents have hurt employment. Many of those jobs are gone never coming back.I found that Ford and Chevy truck engines are made in Mexico. Do you propose a tariff on all imported goods (Donald Trump)? Protectionism does not work. How do you propose to get these good paying jobs? But we are in a recovery and before we were not. We were in a recession Like I said things are a lot better than before. An article in USA today points out Affordable Care Act will reduce the deficit. People who are uninsured are freeloaders and we who have insurance pay for them with higher medical costs since hospitals have to accept all emergency patients

As the article said the sequester is hurting our economy and who is blocking any meaningful legislation for infrastructure?

You mentioned 23 million people out of work and I said I know where a lot can get jobs. Every fast food restaurant is hiring all the time but a lot of people you are talking about will not take these jobs even though they have no skills or anything to offer an employee. There are hundreds of thousand jobs unfilled. Yes they may not be high paying jobs but they are jobs. A lot of those people want high paying jobs without a skill or little education and poor work history, I say that I think the economy is doing much better than it was. Trillions of dollars of wealth has been created with the booming stock market. State retirement trust funds and 401 k's are doing better. Would you agree with that? In my opinion Obama has handled the economy better than Bush did. You mention the deficit is high I agree. The Bush tax cuts and the ten year war in Iraq is a big part of it and most on these forum do not understand or know it.

Everyone blames Obama on this forum but as the article pointed out the financial markets, auto industry crisis, stock market collapse and housing market crash did not happen on his watch did it? Would you agree with that statement as factual?
 
I think you read the article but managed to miss the significance about the recovery. In any case you're entitled to your own opinion and good luck to you.
 
Azstickman I think you completely missed interpreted what was actually signed. The gov gave the G&F the ability to use their own judgement on how and when to enforce the new laws. Trust me, if you think you can go riding your atv down a closed road or off road shed hunting, your going to get a ticket! Now if they catch you driving down a closed road or off road to retrieve a downed elk, you won't be issued a ticket. It's at their discretion whether your actions are justified now.


I just call em as I see em!
 
AZbullsh+$er, keep drinking that coolaid!
My medical premiums for a family of 4 have increased 51% since Obama took office. That is a fact. If your premiums have not increased it is because you have dropped coverages or they are being subsidized by someone (probably taxpayers).
 

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