B-Zone Siskiyou County

It all sounds like nice talk but from what i see, that's about all it is. Talk.

Maybe getting the 2 deer, B zone modified back to 1 deer, if they can do that, might help with the herds.

Just like here in these pages, we can recognize that there is a problem. But getting something that is actually going to rectify the problem, other than more talk, has not been the norm.

I wish them good luck. I do.

Joey
 
I commend the county supervisors for doing what needs to be done to protect a resource. I hope they consult with real wildlife managers. I am sure there will be some that complain that the county is overstepping their bounds or limiting hunters from obtaining their right to multiple tags. Too bad Mendocino County won't step up & do that for the herds in that county but the pot market brings in too much money.

JR
 
I know a guy here who is pushing for the same at F&G board meetings as well as 3 point or better.

I love the ideas and hope it passes as they are actually supposed to vote on it but I don't know when.

Bill
 
I won't buy into the three point or better idea. For one thing, there would be too many forkies killed by excited guys and left to rot... and also the fact than genetically, many mature Blacktail bucks never exceed that of two points on each side.

I could live with one deer per year, Statewide. Maybe they should take a good hard look at that. There would be a loss of revenue to the State though and they may disregard the proposal because so.

my $.02

Joey
 
Sounds good to me. I think they should restrict everyone in the state to 1 tag a year.
 
Should I hunt B zone or C zone with one tag? Hello, looks like a lot of people will go to the inland tags.
 
One tag is a good start, but more importantly the length of the season should be cut back to two weeks instead of five. In fact, this is more important than making the B zone a one deer zone. JMO Rick
 
There's no need to cut out the 2nd deer tags just because the masses can't find one deer to shoot off the forest service roads.
 
"So you guys want to cut tags and shorten the season? Why not just close the season down altogether?"

Some type of compromise seems a better solution. :) At this point, it's just talk anyway.

Joey
 
Sage that (shooting forkies and leaving them) excuse has been around for years and doesn't wash with me. Even if it happens and it might, the number of forkies shot and left will be FAR LOWER than the number shot now. I know it sucks to see or hear of animals shot and left ( I've seen it a few times with long curved spikes) the real concern needs to be addressed and that is overhunting.

The second tag thing is more important than most think. It was stated that most can't find one well the problem is with two tags many people (used to be me) shoot the first legal buck they cross and save the other for a big buck or last day forkie. So the people that want a better buck with only one tag will wait and probably be unsuccessful!

All of this is a step in the right direction IMO however they need to stop pi$$in out every fire to improve habitat.

Another view on the three or better is to let JR hunters shoot forkies.

Bill
 
I have worked and hunted with Ric for years and he knows his stuff. I hope they succeed but have my doubts they will.
Another reason for the decline in the deer herds is the lack of clearcut logging. Deer flourish in the fresh growth it creates.

Just my humble opinion.
 
"Sage that (shooting forkies and leaving them) excuse has been around for years and doesn't wash with me. Even if it happens and it might, the number of forkies shot and left will be FAR LOWER than the number shot now. I know it sucks to see or hear of animals shot and left ( I've seen it a few times with long curved spikes) the real concern needs to be addressed and that is overhunting."


I do agree that something needs to be done, especially in some areas. You might not be old enough to remember when they made the northern X zones 3 point or better. There was big, and some small, forkies laying to rot everywhere. I saw it myself and was sick over it!!

Getting back to the Forkey idea, i'm also against it because, another genetic thing, when you only take the three and four points or better, you then have the forkies left to do a lot of the breeding.

Calif's big claim to fame in the deer hunting world is our Blacktail and the amount of true trophy animal's that we kick out each and every year. I don't think shooting ourselves in the foot here by engineering the genetics to be lowered is the way to go here. Then again, i'm a trophy guy, some are more looking for opportunity and i can understand that.

Joey
 
You forget, when it comes to breeding and Genetics, 50 % comes from the female too... It's not all about the buck with the biggest horns doing his part... She needs to carry some in here gene pool too.
Let the NW burn!!!
 
>
>I do agree that something needs
>to be done, especially in
>some areas. You might not
>be old enough to remember
>when they made the northern
>X zones 3 point or
>better. There was big, and
>some small, forkies laying to
>rot everywhere. I saw it
>myself and was sick over
>it!!
>
>Getting back to the Forkey idea,
>i'm also against it because,
>another genetic thing, when you
>only take the three and
>four points or better, you
>then have the forkies left
>to do a lot of
>the breeding.



I have been there and saw the same thing it does not work.Read your deer history,what is needed is doe seasons!
 
I was there too Sage and got the same story from a Warden in the town of Beiber. I believe it was a year or two prior to the change and he said there was an estimated 150 dead and rotting forkies every year in X-1. Now I will agree that sucks however if YOU remember a few years AFTER the change to forkie or better and AFTER the big die-off from the '92-'93 winters X-1 was DROPPED to a Paltry 12,000 tags!

Yep 12,000 tags!

So if when the tag quota for ONE ZONE was 12,000 tags there was even 200 forkies killed per season it still doesn't equal what is killed there legally now, BOTTOM LINE more dead forkies.

There were some forkie gene pools and still are but I don't think its any different in forkie or better units as even you have stated you don't like the idea of a reverse change for the B zones because it will allow them to prosper.

Bill
 
Bill, I think we're both hoping for the right things to be done for the furure of Deer hunting in Northern Cali so i don't want this to seem like a huge argument going on here. It's not. We just have slightly different views on the ways that things can get better.

I'm having some trouble understanding your point, your last post. The fact is, we no longer have the numbers of animals, in most areas, that we once had. 12k tags to 1,200 tags, what's given now, didn't happen because we no longer shoot forkys in X-1

If the state saw fit to only allow 1 deer tag statewide per year, a lot of guys like myself when younger who shot two bucks every single year, would surely be a pickier in their first and only buck killed. This might save a lot of smaller bucks for the guy who's just out for a buck, better hunting as far as he's concerned, or allow the smaller buck a better chance to make it thru the season and become older, better hunting down the road for a guy looking for a more mature deer with a nice rack. I pass up young bucks every year. I don't need a law saying a deer has to have so many points.

As far as your last paragraph;
"There were some forkie gene pools and still are but I don't think its any different in forkie or better units as even you have stated you don't like the idea of a reverse change for the B zones because it will allow them to prosper."

I've read this 4-5 times and still not sure what you're referring to when you say that i "stated" something?? Maybe your and my idea's of what will make the B zones prosper is different, maybe they're close to the same, I don't know...

I've said this before and i'll hope you guys allow me repetition of myself; If those guys that go out of state and hunt hard every year, put forth that kind of effort, home work, map work, phone calls, decent trip length, bust a$$ to get away from the roads, all this that they are willing to do on outa state trips but did this here in Cali, they could consistently kill really great trophy, maybe even "Book", pure Blacktail bucks from our B zone hunts!

Has been for years and still is the case! Lets not screw that up!!

Joey
 
First I agree completely with the point of not wanting to turn into an argument Sage.

Let me explain further my points as I reread them and found them unclear also.

My point on the X-1 tag numbers was how long it took F&G to see the obvious decline in deer numbers and I see the same writing on the wall for B zones as I live here in the midst of them.We hunted X3a mostly and X-1 some in archery and between the time of the change to forkie or better and the hard winter kills there was a quick decline in buck numbers. We initially embraced the change but it was swiftly evident to us and every local we talked to that it was detrimental to the herd.

Simply put that extra year (average) of life and its experience makes a buck much more difficult to hunt and kill which will quickly improve the buck to doe ratio in our state. It makes ZERO sense to argue that the relative few deer that are accidentally shot and left will effect the population more than the relative many that are shot legally. It may not be a pretty sight but the ACTUAL effect on the herd would be less dramatic than the amount killed now.

YOU may not need someone to require anyone to tell you how many points a buck must have to decide whether to shoot it or not but I believe for the betterment of the herd (simply my opinion of how to improve the buck to doe ratio) MOST PEOPLE do.

As for accidental shootings they will always happen. I have seen spikes and even does shot and left. Its a sad side effect of hunting. Better education and enforcement is what is needed.

As for the gene pool sentence, that was actually not directed at you or anyone else for that matter. Many people believe that a three or better plan lets inferior deer survive to older breeding age and to some degree it does and we saw this in X3a with some MONSTER forkies, some 24" to 28" wide and maybe pushing 30". Now although this is not what we may want but it is a small problem just as accidental shootings are a small problem and we need to fix the BIG problem and that is total population and buck to doe ratio and then move to the small ones IMO.

I agree with your statement that a HARD HUNTING and DRIVEN individual can still kill a big buck in the B zones BUT it is not even CLOSE to what it was 15 or 20 years ago or even 5 years ago. There are many factors as to why but over-hunting , cats and fire/logging suppression are at the top of the list. Much of the over-hunting is related (I believe) to the drop in tag numbers in other units and F&G's seeming belief that they can lay the burden on the hard to find and hunt blacktail. The flaw here partly is killing immature deer that aren't hard to find and hunt.Oregon is experiencing the same thing IMO.

I hunt out of state and because of a back injury don't hunt as hard as I once did but the VAST majority of my friends and family who hunt hunt blacktails in the B zones and many of them hunt HARD and sometimes kill a big buck but to say it can be done consistently is a little skewed or your idea of a big buck isn't the same as ours. I don't disagree that they are still there and can be had with hard work just not consistently on PUBLIC LAND.

Sage sorry if it seems to be argumentative it is not intentional. I agree with 99.9 percent of what you post normally and most of your opinion on this issue. I hope I clarified myself a little and if I didn't it is no fault of any reader for sure because I sometimes don't make my point clearly in print. Sorry for the long post.

Bill
 
I'll comment on the article only. Good for them! To stand by and watch things decline without doing anything......we've been doing that for 20 years. The only changes that I've seen is the license and tag fees rise in price. There's a management stratagy for you.

At least the folks in Siskiyou have a plan, and most of their plan I agree with.

The County Supervisors have more power than you think. I wouldn't be surprised if they can make a difference. It will be interesting to watch.

Eel
 
Bill, i'm not going to tell you or the world where my friends hunt because that wouldn't be fair to them but rest assured, they are still killing, have for years, huge Blacktail bucks each and every year off Public ground in the B zones. Maybe my statements seems "skewed" to you, maybe you and your friends don't hunt the country that they do, maybe they don't hunt as hard as some outa state guys are willing to do. I can't say that, that i can't know.

What i can say, i did. I'll stand behind my statement and sorry you think i'm lying to you or that you believe i don't know what a huge blacktail is. I'm done here, see the writing on the wall with this post, i've said enough. Out!

Joey
 
Sage the fact that you think I am calling you a liar disturbs me as I have not and would not do so.

What I said was skewed is the statement that your friends CONSISTENTLY kill HUGE bucks. First consistently says to me that each individual kills a huge buck at least every other year for example Randy Ulmer consistently kills huge muleys. And huge to me is not a score but is not just any 20 inch 4 point either. Huge is an actual Jawdropper. Maybe my translation of the statement is the same as your translation to me calling you a liar.

I believe your story of your friends' success is just as you say but would love to ask them if they felt there was as many deer or as many good to huge bucks as even 10 years ago. Not everyone's opinion on the deer numbers is the same I am sure but all the people I talk hunting with that hunt public land in and out of the wilderness areas in Siskiyou and Del Norte counties seem to reflect the same opinion as mine.

I did not intend to make you believe I thought you a liar nor did I say that there are not hunters out there who are still killing big bucks in the B zones I know a few myself but I know of nobody who feels the odds are as good as even 10 years ago.

I do not wish to know the secret spot your friends are hunting and applaud them for doing great they should be proud as they have very little company in the woods (or they wouldn't be finding all the big bucks) and in the hunting world as I don't know anyone who is able to do that on public land. Again I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE LYING just to be clear I am being sincere in my compliment to them!

Obviously we disagree on the three point thing but I think that something should have been done 10 years ago to help the deer herds in the B zones and you feel at least now something needs to be done to help now. One tag is a great start as is choose your weapon and I believe this will help the herd in the future (maybe 5-10 years down the road) and that is a great start.

Sage I apologize for any misunderstanding and please don't take disagreement for ANYTHING other than just that.

Oh and try to get them boys to post up some pics of those monster blackies in the Blacktail section it gets kinda slow in there.

Bill
 
Bill, Did you even read my posts, about how hard and the amount of research, effort, location, and hunt days required? When you come out with this,

"the VAST majority of my friends and family who hunt hunt blacktails in the B zones and many of them hunt HARD and sometimes kill a big buck but to say it can be done consistently is a little skewed or your idea of a big buck isn't the same as ours. I don't disagree that they are still there and can be had with hard work just not consistently on PUBLIC LAND."
You say this right after i say it's done, has been done, and my friends are still doing it...That is calling me a liar and the rest of anything you have to say doesn't matter! Not one word!

You ever hear the term talking out both sides of your mouth? That's what i'm hearing from you. You say nice things about me out one side, then basically call me a liar and act like i don't have a clue, out the other. Good luck to you, really, but friends like you i do not need.

Joey
 
Sage not looking for friends here but not looking to be called a liar for simply disagreeing with a grumpy plick.

I said I believed you think your friends bucks are HUGE and YOU think that getting it done however often they get it done is consistent I just don't know if everyone would agree.

You ever hear a guy say he has the most beautiful wife in the world who is so nice and wonderful only to meet her and find her to be an ugly , nasty B!^@#!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and his opinion of his wife is skewed by HIS TASTE in women and to say so doesn't make him a liar.

Your friends may kill two 150+ bucks every year in the B zones but I don't know because I don't know them so if I take it with a grain of salt and call it skewed that in not calling you a LIAR if I was calling you a liar I would have said you are FULL OF CHIT!!!

I am NO BAD@$$ internet or otherwise but I am not afraid of anyone so I have no need to talk out both sides of my mouth like a coward.

I still do not think you are lying but without pics and numbers I still think BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER! Otherwise known as skewed.

I think you must have the only opinion of importance in any conversation you enter and that is sad because God gave you two ears and one mouth so you should listen twice as much as you speak.

Happy now pick up your toys and go home again or accuse me of some other nefarious plot to demean your character.

Bill
 
Like i said, friends like you i do not need. Now your true colors are showing! Why did i know that you would be this way? Everything stands as i stated except now i no longer wish you good luck!

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-11 AT 11:58PM (MST)[p]Oh and you knew I would be like this because I had the nerve to disagree with you and anybody who does that must be a bad egg, right?

I have reached a new low thanks to a guy on a website who believes the blacktail hunting in CA is as good as ever.WOW!

Sorry to the OP in this and unlike the guy who promised to leave it and didn't I now will.

Bill
 
aghhhhhhhh just an idea....maybe a split season closeure the last two weeks of October so we can harvest in peace and quite!!
DUDES!!
4a2c3c3419e430ad.jpg


rackmaster
 
4, i'll walk away when i the hell i want to walk away. When my name is being slandered by YOU, some new guy punk that loves to talk out both sides of his mouth, about me, i'll talk and say exactly the F##k i want to, when i want to, and back it up the old fashioned way if i have to, do you hear me punk ass new guy!!!

You just said, "I have reached a new low thanks to a guy on a website who believes the blacktail hunting in CA is as good as ever.WOW!"

Where did i say that? Wait a minute, where, exactly did i say "blacktail hunting in CA is as good as ever"? LIAR!!! You just said that of me and now you can't find where i said that because you can't, i never said that, and you're here doubting what i have to say. You are the frigging new guy liar here. I'll stand behind my post count and known honesty in these pages and you can kiss my butt. You are juus some punk ass wannabe who calls me out cause of how hard his friends and family hunts, big deal, in the stix of Far Northern B-zones. Take your Northern B-zones a see if they can fit right up your...!

My address is listed under sageadvice, i'm real easy to find in Chester. You either Back the #uck off or lets get together and talk, i just don't give a rats behind!!!

Joey
 
Uh....
Wow! So now ones intelligence or knowledge is related to the number of posts.

That coming from a guy who can't tell the difference between sheep and goats.

Lighten up Sage I don't wanna fight ya!

You said if you research blah blah hunt hard blah blah and spend time blah blah you can kill HUGE blah blah consistently!
SAME AS ALWAYS!

Well its not the same as always thats all I meant! and your post makes it sound as if there is no problem to warrant help. You never came out and said it just like I didn't come out and say you were a liar so maybe that's not your opinion just like mine of you is not as a liar.

Sage you really need to lighten up.

The herd needs help NOW! and I hope the state sees that soon!

I apologize to all who seek thoughtful info here for drawing out the opposite in others.

Bill
 
Here's the deal Bill, A couple of my friends go at the B-zone hunts like some guys go at out of state hunts. They pack in wilderness areas, know where they are going, and kill really good bucks each year and have been doing that a long time now. I didn't say things are great in the B zones. I wouldn't ever say that. What i said is, it still CAN BE DONE!...even if you, your friends, and family, aren't doing it or getting it done where they hunt!

I also have dozens of pic's of these and other bucks that are/have been killed in the B's from the past 2-3 years. Big bucks to anybody who knows what a big Blacktail is. I can't and will not post these pic's though as i was told under trust, no uncertain terms, not to post these pic's here or anywhere else. You have stated your doubts about my knowing what a big buck is and also that i don't know what i'm talking about. You're still doing it! Well, Up Yours!! I hope we meet up someday. As far as i'm concerned you are just a sissy, hide behind your screen name, piece of crap!

Joey
 
"Here's the deal Bill, A couple of my friends go at the B-zone hunts like some guys go at out of state hunts. They pack in wilderness areas, know where they are going, and kill really good bucks each year and have been doing that a long time now. I didn't say things are great in the B zones. I wouldn't ever say that. What i said is, it still CAN BE DONE!"

Fair enough I agree it CAN BE DONE.

"I also have dozens of pic's of these and other bucks that are/have been killed in the B's from the past 2-3 years. Big bucks to anybody who knows what a big Blacktail is. I can't and will not post these pic's though as i was told under trust, no uncertain terms, not to post these pic's here or anywhere else."

I would not ask you to post anything that you or especially they would not want you to. I only asked you to post pics knowing you would only do so with permission.

"You have stated your doubts about my knowing what a big buck is and also that i don't know what i'm talking about. You're still doing it!"

I do not doubt you know what a big buck is and I am sure you know what your talking about. I have only stated that your idea and mine MAY BE different that means to say Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Such as I would rather kill a big old chocolate horned 4x3 than a perfect 4x4 that made book with spindly horns you MAY agree or disagree I don't know.

"Well, Up Yours!! I hope we meet up someday. As far as i'm concerned you are just a sissy, hide behind your screen name, piece of crap!"

Now that's just mean!

Sage life is too short to carry around that kind of anger and hate.

Bill
 
Hey guys! You need your own thread or just PM each other! This has gone too far south!

Bill! We don't know each other, but I'll bet that if we ever met, I'd find you to be a real OK guy!
Joey! We have met and I know that you are definitely a good man!

That said! This, "he said, he said", has gone along far enough. Let it go and let's move on with the B zone!
 
Geeze guys. I thought the whole point of this website was to share opinions and information on something we all have a passion for not a place to vent bottled up anger.

JR
 

Similar threads

Founder
Trophy Whitetail Hunts in Kansas and Indiana
Replies
0
Views
671
Founder
Founder
Founder
Mule Deer, Elk, Antelope and Whitetail Hunts in Idaho
Replies
0
Views
543
Founder
Founder
gr8fuldoug
Armasight Thermal Promotion
Replies
0
Views
101
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

Spike Hunt
E4A03DCF-382A-48BE-9C0C-90FC2E7BE9CE.jpeg
E540F9BB-FD8D-44D9-B677-48FCD013BB5B.jpeg
117D2228-7296-4861-97DE-57199490D126.jpeg
IMG_5339.jpeg
44B279F0-2657-4E18-B8D4-18DB4BD52DAE.jpeg
2DA65900-B0CB-47E6-86E8-8B1410144232.jpeg
IMG_2837.jpg
F41D8652-C064-41A7-86F1-5A0E5F277DB6.jpeg
71BA152A-E18B-452A-AC99-86AF75C8FA2C.jpeg
A332F146-5945-4D2E-ACF6-9FE9C1789E4D.jpeg
5A44166A-29E4-46B3-B5B6-9814B8BCDA44.jpeg

California Guides & Outfitters

Western Wildlife Adventures

Offering some fine Blacktail Deer hunting, Wild Pig hunts, Turkey hunts and Waterfowl hunts.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer the top private land hunts in all of California, for blacktail deer, elk, pigs, bison and turkeys.

G & J Outdoors

Offering Tule elk hunts for bulls and cows on a 17,000 acre Ranch in Laytonville, CA with 100% success.

Back
Top Bottom