Barnes TSX fail!

C

colocolo

Member
Messages
7
I thought i would share this I have always shot Berger VLDs but a buddy of mine talked me into trying some Barnes TSX. So i worked up a load for my gun using them and was fairly impressed with how they preformed at the range. So i figured i would take them out after elk this year. I got set up on a bull at about 340 yards across the canyon. My first shot and the bull just sort of flinched a little and continued to feed as if nothing had happened. Second shot dumped him in his tracks. As i crossed the canyon i thought what the hell 340 yards off a bipod and you missed?? I must be getting to old for this. However upon caping out the bull I indeed found two entrance holes about two inches from one another. Once i rolled him over to get at the other side i found both of the bullets lodged in the hide not quite passing clean through him. As you can see on my first shot the bullet failed. Needless to say I think ill keep the Barnes for the range!
3349cimg8274.jpg
 
Interesting. Very interesting. I too have shot Barnes bullets. I shot the triple shocks out of my 300 ultra. I shot my LE bull with them. I only had one shot opportunity and hit him perfectly. He like you said flinched and was gone acting like he wasn't even hit. I found him dead 100 yards away. Upon inspection. I found the entry hole and found the exit hole. What was puzzling to me was the exit was tiny. Like it didn't have time to mushroom like your bullet shows. It did not hit any of the ribs or bones just heart and hide. Did your first shot hit bone?
I am now shooting JLKs. Not that I don't like Barnes. My gun likes the Bergers better.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-13 AT 06:24PM (MST)[p]Where's the fail? The bull is dead. That expanded bullet looks lead. Got a pic of the front of the bullet? mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-13 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]This is nothing new. When a expanding bullet doesn't expand, that is a failure. Hunting with full metal jackets is about like hunting with an arrow with a field tip.

All from animals.

junkbarnes001.jpg

junkbarnes002.jpg


They are accurate and they penetrate and when they open there is nothing better. Use light for caliber TSX at 3000+ FPS and you should be OK if you are stuck on Barnes.

Be carefull though. Barnes loveres get offended when their bullet is called into question and you would be better off talking trash about their mothers. I have flat out offended ALOT of people by posting these pictures.

Todd
 
I'm not a Barnes lover, that expanded bullet just doesn't look typical Barnes for some reason. The ones I've loaded for friends have an X on the bottom. mtmuley
 
Something is a little fishy with this story. First the bullet on the left doesn't look like a Barnes. At least the ones I use don't have a bonded lead core. I also don't understand how both bullets ended up just under the hide. With one bullet expanded and one not there should be completely different penetration depths.
 
Rather it Hit a Bone or not!

That is TOTAL BS & I'd never Hunt Big Game with a Slug that won't Expand more than that!

You can Buy Factory Ammo that performs way better than that!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
It's about velocity . The bullet was not traveling fast enough for it to expand correctly . What caliber where you shooting ? I have shot nosler for years and they have always work and do work great. The problem was with the newer super magnums people started shooting. The Nosler where coming apart. This is how the copper bullets came about. They don't shred the outer jacked from the core. So at lower velocity the Barnes expands less allowing it to pass threw instead of impacting on surface and not penetrating. My gun shoot 168grain Barnes ttsx at the muzzle at 3600 fps. I have never not had a bullet exit a animal. I hand load and shoot 338 win mag 185 grain and 300 Tejas 168 grain ttsx bullets. So is it better to have a bullet impact on the shoulder of a animal and not penetrate into the vitals . Or have one not expand completely but penetrate threw the heart and lungs . All bullets may not be perfect in every gun or situation . But for my gun Barnes have worked well for me. I cannot be sure what problem you had with you shot that day. But I guess you didn't loose your animal.
 
Velocity is correct. do the math, if an unexpanded bullet , 2 no less, are found under the hide what was the velocity on impact? very low.

I've killed quite a few big game animals with the TSX and have recovered very few bullets but every animal. that said, I've gone back to the Partition because I get faster more positive kills at longer ranges and dependable performance at close range.

The perfect bullet for 50 yards to 1000 yards at any velocity does not exist and probably never will. give the TSX enough velocity and it's a great bullet within that range.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
Shoot!

I can't even Stirr anybody up!:D













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I shoot a 300 rum and use the Barnes 180,i shot a black bear in Nevada a few weeks back, the shot was close to 400 yards.the bullet broke his spine and the bullet went through and left a small exit hole.
 
Now you know why I prefer the Nosler Partition over the Barnes and a host of other "premium" bullets. It will expand at lower velocity even when just hitting hide and muscle. If hitting heavy bone, front will blow off most of the time and the rear 2/3 of the bullet will penatrate though the bone into the vitals.
My problem is that CA. has now outlawed all hunting bullets containing lead and I will have to use those Barnes in my home state. When I go out of state, my rifle will have Nosler Partitions.

RELH
 
If I figured on long range shots or shot a non magnum with heavy bullets I'd go with the TTSX. the tip should provide better expansion.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
440, there may not be a perfect bullet for 50 yards to 1000, but the Accubond is damn close. This year I'm gonna run the new ALR through a few critters. mtmuley
 
Here is a bull from the General hunt this year. I loaded up 168gr TTSX for my Dad's 30-06. The shot was about 80 yds steep downhill and this is the exit side. As you can see the one put a hole big enough the heart fell through.

1915elk2013.jpg
 
I can't get the accuracy I want from the accubond, and it's nothing more than a glued ballistic tip. I'm sure they work but until I get the groups I want I'm not changing.

If I had to vote for the best all around game bullet I'd have to go with a Hornady BTSP Interlock. I've never seen one fail to do a perfect job . I don't know why I don't use them more, I guess they're just old and boring in a market of newfangled everything.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
Here is a cow elk shot a week ago by my daughter. It was shot with a Barnes 168 gr ttsx out of a 300 tejas at 780 yards. It kicked its back legs when hit and walked forward 20 yards and fell over. Not a huge exit wound. No bullet to recover, so I cant show you a beautiful mushroomed bullet. The bullet passed threw both lungs. The entrance wound inside the rib cage was about 1 1/2" and the exit was about 3 1/2" inside the rib cage. Here is a picture of the cow and this is the exit wound where she fell.
68792013-10-07_08.31.09.jpg

In field conditions who knows what may have happened to your bullet? Did it hit a stick,or was it a light load? I guess the question is ? Is there a dead animal on the ground ? Then how did it fail ? Because you didn't recover a perfectly mushroomed bullet it failed ? If you are wanting perfectly mushroomed bullet to look at and feel good how well it formed. Then maybe you need to stick with shooting ballistic gelatin. No bones or sticks to get in the way. Did you recover the second bullet ? I would like to see how it looks.
I have seen a few different outcomes with bad bullet impacting on bone. The animals went down. But got up and got away. I am talking about a few hunters I know that lost big elk with Bergers. Yes I do shoot Bergers. I just no longer shoot them at large boned animals. Not trying to give you a hard time. Just trying to help you understand what may have happened with your first shot. If it was 2"from your second it may have been a kill shot as well as the second. Elk are tough animals and may take more then one shot to put them down. Congratulation on getting your elk.
 
I use barnes, I use bergers, I use noslers.

I do believe a barnes could fail.

Something is not right with this story. I suspect the poster has some monetary connection to a different bullet manufacturer. It just feels as though not all of the facts are being disclosed. I would definately like to see the second bullet (that was supposedly right next to this one). What caliber and weight bullet is this and what is the muzzle velocity (or impact velocity) of that load.

Its also curious that this is basically this individuals first post here.
 
I am sure every bullet has a chance to fail. I have heard bad things about all of them. I had a Nosler Accubond that I shot at a Bull elk 5 years ago out of my .270 at 60-80yds that didn't expand. The plastic tip fell off one side and that was basically it.
 
I took a combination of Accubond an Nosler Partition bullets to Africa in 2010. The Outfitter I was with asked me not to use the Accubond bullets because of the number of animals they had lost with the bullet. I used Partitions which I recovered or the skinner recovered in many cases, all performed perfect and of twelve animals killed on that trip none made 50 yards after shot. 300 WSM
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-13 AT 12:19PM (MST)[p]I've shot Barnes TSX and TTSX 180's out of a 300WM and all have performed as advertised. My understanding is Barnes went to the TTSX to assist in expansion on long range shots due to the loss of velocity. Some say the TSX does not expand as well at lower velocity so the tip on the TTSX assists expansion at lower speeds. If the original post is lagit, then I would suspect the expansion problem incurred is due to the long range loss of velocity. I also agree with RELH that the second expanded bullet IS NOT a Barnes and the first looks too clean to have come from an animal. Usually look a little stained when taken out from under the hide.

I have also taken elk and deer with Partitions and they have never failed to put animals on the ground. Partitions tend to pass through where Barnes can be collected under the off side hide. I guess if I had to choose, I'd take Partitions because two leaking holes are better than one, but Barnes certainly do the job as well.

Bottom line is all will perform well if placed properly and that of course is up to the shooter.
 
Barnes bullets require a minimum velocity to open and expand. If the minimum volocity is not met the bullet becomes like a solid and no expansion occurs.

In this situation where is the rifling marks on the TSX bullet? There is no indication that this bullet has been down a barrel!
 
Really guys?

You don't see rifling marks on all the bullets above?...

A guy can't post his experience about a bullet without having a finiancial gain in another bullet company??.

You Barnes lovers are something else I swear.

Research it.. TSX bullets do not open sometimes. Wether it be velocity or what, they do not open sometimes.

The bullet in the center of my photo is a .300 grain TSX fired from a .375 H&H recovered from my cape buffalo. They were too tough to open reliably in the H&H.

Like I said earlier when they open, there isn't a better bullet.

I have killed a few literal truck loads of animals with TSX bullets and feel I have earned the right to have an oppinion about them..

Happy hunting,

Todd
 
Some guy in Africa said Accubonds don't work. I couldn't care less what he thinks as I've shot truckloads of stuff with them. My initial reaction was because the OP showed two differnt bullets in his pic that I thought he claimed were both Barnes. I don't and won't use Barnes bullets. I have E-Tips for my copper load. mtmuley
 
mtmuley,

I'm sorry I'm coming off as pointing a finger at you, I am not. You have a solid, valid opinion on bullets and its obviouse you know what you are talking about.

I am pointing the finger at the guys who still cannot accept that their favorite bullet might have a flaw and are willing to call the person expressing their oppinion on it stupid, just because they have never experienced the problem.

I could care less what people shoot at animals. It is their hunt, thier rifle, their money etc....

Just don't be so quick to discount anothers experience as non-factuall just because they haven't had the same experiences.

Like I said earlier, you want to get the hackels up on a Barnes fan, talk bad about their bullet... Sheesh...

Todd
 
I can't believe you just said that out loud. You mean to tell me that a bullet that opens reliably at 700 plus yards might be junk at a 100!!!!??? how dare you!!!

Todd
 
Close range impacts out of a .300 RUM didn't give the results I want. That being said, my daughter and I are gonna wack some does with the 95 grainer out of a .243 here in about two weeks. I expect different results. I've loaded the 140 Accubond in a .270 for her elk hunting. mtmuley
 
I'll stick with my Winchester POWER POINTS!

When you show me a Bullet that'll do more damage I'll change!

They Shroom and I don't care what they hit!













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I live 40 miles from the Nosler plant so we all shoot Nosler around here, stories of accubond fails are common . if the accubond was as perfect as it would seem the partition and ballistic tip would both be obsolete. but they aren't and they won't be.

The E Tip is nothing but a TTSX without the grooves that make the Barnes superior.

My 2 bits is if you have any doubts about the copper bullets just use the partition and forget about it.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
Regardless of what you like, don't like, shoot, or don't shoot if you shoot enough i believe eventually a bullet wont preform the way it should
 
Here's a PISSCUTTER Whitey Buck I knocked right on his Ass with a POWER POINT!


8495power_point.jpg












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
What ? What is that bessy ! You have a deer tied to a All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) shot in the a## ! You are driving around shooting poor animals in the a## Oh :) :)
 
Well BIGJOHN!

You might say I flinched just a little!:D

But man!

You shoulda heard the Kathump!:D

Knocked Him right off his feet the first shot!

Oh,did I tell you the Slug Expanded?:D














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
440 don't like Accubonds or E-Tips and I don't give a flying fornication what he thinks either. A guy needs to use a bullet to know if it works for what he uses it for or not. mtmuley
 
>
>I can't get the accuracy I
>want from the accubond, and
>it's nothing more than a
>glued ballistic tip. I'm sure
>they work but until I
>get the groups I want
>I'm not changing.
>
>If I had to vote for
>the best all around game
>bullet I'd have to go
>with a Hornady BTSP Interlock.
>I've never seen one fail
>to do a perfect job
>.

***I don't know
>why I don't use them
>more, I guess they're just
>old and boring in a
>market of newfangled everything.***


Kinda like you don't know why you Love Your President so much,Ain't it?


>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>Stay thirsty my friends















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
Muley if you're on commission for Nosler don't worry, they make the Partitions too so I'm not hurting you. give me a break.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Kind of off subject but....
I was reading an article about a guy that has outfitted a plantation back east for whitetails for around 40 years. He logged every detail about every buck every killed on the plantation. He logged, cartridge, bullet, distance of shot, distance of recovery, shot placement, velocity, bullet weight and many other factors. The .25 caliber rifles were by far the best out there, even better than the big 30"s. The relevant thing is didn't seem to matter much what bullet they were shooting.

MFJ!!
 
There is definitely something not quite right about this story. Was this a squib handload, a factory or ?
Without expansion, it is highly unlikely the bullet would be found under the hide at anywhere near normal velocities.

All bullets will fail to open at low enough velocities. Every bullet is designed for a specific velocity range. Use a bullet designed for the velocities in your cartridge, and you won't have problems at reasonable ranges.

I love Barnes bullets, and have never had one fail. I also love Nosler Partitions, and the on ly thing close to a failure occurred when heavy bone caused the rear core to squirt partially out. I've tested many premium bullets in various media, and ALL stop opening, even Nosler partitions, at low enough velocity.

Something else is going on in this story, not a problem with bullet design.
Bill
 
I think if you look into the design of the Nosler Partition you will find that it was designed to be effective at a far wider range of velocity then some of the newer premium bullets.
The front will expand at lower velocity when hitting just flesh then your all copper bullets will. On a close up high velocity hit or hitting bone, the front part will open up and blow off most times, but the rear 2/3 of the bullet will stay intack due to the "H-mantle" design and continue in to the vitals of the animal.
In other words it will work a very high percentage of the time from 25 yard shots on out to 800 yards or more depending on the velocity when impacting.
Most of the all copper bullets are best used in high velocity magnums, but what happens at 400- 600 yards when that velocity drops down very low. Very little expansion unless you hit bone going in.
Just as Dude, 440, said if the partition was not doing the job it was designed for, it would have gone the way of the Dodo bird during the past 50 years it has been taking game animals.
As for that TSX bullet failing to exit the animal, if it tumbled after impacting, that could cause it to fail to make complete pentration. We would have to examine the wound channel in the animal to determine if that could have happen.
As for that comment on the 25 caliber doing the best job on the deer at that hunting club. That could be contributed to lower recoil and the hunters getting better shots into the vitals because they are not flinching on that big magnum they bought because everyone else told them that was needed to DRT on game animals. Just my opinion and observations over the years.

RELH
 
>There is definitely something not quite
>right about this story. Was
>this a squib handload, a
>factory or ?
>Without expansion, it is highly unlikely
>the bullet would be found
>under the hide at anywhere
>near normal velocities.
>
>All bullets will fail to open
>at low enough velocities. Every
>bullet is designed for a
>specific velocity range. Use a
>bullet designed for the velocities
>in your cartridge, and you
>won't have problems at reasonable
>ranges.
>
>I love Barnes bullets, and have
>never had one fail. I
>also love Nosler Partitions, and
>the on ly thing close
>to a failure occurred when
>heavy bone caused the
>rear core to squirt partially
>out. I've tested many premium
>bullets in various media, and
>ALL stop opening, even Nosler
>partitions, at low enough velocity.
>
>
>Something else is going on in
>this story, not a problem
>with bullet design.
>Bill
+1
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-13 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]I'm betting not many of you take your twist rate into consideration when using those long mono bullets like barnes..You really should, barnes likes to spin fast and fly fast,when you pair the two up your going to see a whole new animal performance wise..

Just a hint, few factory rifles are twisted fast enough to suit me on the heavier for caliber barnes. even with a 10 twist 30 cal which is relatively fast for that caliber(which most big magnums have)i still stick with 175-180 barnes. If your shooting those 180's out of your 12 twist 308, be prepared to not like the performance. Same with 140 grain 264's and 168 grain 7mm's.

Just something for you all to chew on, bent noses and non expansion happen for a reason, most guys just assume its because of a POS bullet.

Also keep in mind that hollow point bullets have always had expansion problems, even light jacketed target bullets have a reputation for "penciling thru" I will only shoot tipped barnes for that reason. I love barnes for killing, I've never walked away un impressed by them, but I also understand how they work. For those that dont want to think that much there are always power points.
 
"""Penciling Through!"""

Prime example of a POS CoreLokt!









I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I've heard lots of slams on corloct, but that hasent been one of them.

If I was cornered on it i would even admit to power points being pretty good bullets..too bad they have the BC of an ashtray.
 
Mtmuley;

I quit using Core-lokts in the early 70's. Long before Al Gore invented the internet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just had to get that in after you opened the door.

RELH
 
Question for the OP..How did you get that bullet that has supposedly been shot into an elk, looking like you just got it out of the box?

I've recovered lots of bullets and they all have been at the very least discolored, and the meat/blood is pretty hard to get out of every little nook on a bullet..Thanks for scrubbing the guts out of it to make it look presentable, err??
 
>Question for the OP..How did you
>get that bullet that has
>supposedly been shot into an
>elk, looking like you just
>got it out of the
>box?
>
>I've recovered lots of bullets and
>they all have been at
>the very least discolored, and
>the meat/blood is pretty hard
>to get out of every
>little nook on a bullet..Thanks
>for scrubbing the guts out
>of it to make it
>look presentable, err??

Was wondering the same. It also begs the question, where did all that energy go seeing as how it was deposited just shy of the fur opposite the entrance and alongside the bullet that did expand properly?


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-13 AT 01:24PM (MST)[p]Some things can just fail..... I know a guy that swears by berger bullets well guess what it failed. Now he switched to hornady. Ford, dodge and chevy have good and then the ones that just fail. Deal with it people a bullet failed.. barnes isn't the greatest thing since slice bread


Hate to break your hearts here but I hear several complaints about the barnes. Guess what I can complain about my bullet choices to. I have had good and bad luck With my choices...


100 guys. 100 ways
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-13
>AT 01:24?PM (MST)
>
>Some things can just fail..... I
>know a guy that swears
>by berger bullets well guess
>what it failed. Now he
>switched to hornady.
>Ford, dodge and chevy have
>good and then the ones
>that just fail.
>Deal with it people a
>bullet failed.. barnes isn't the
>greatest thing since slice bread
>
>
>
>Hate to break your hearts

So it could be a bad bullet or bad load. I wasnt there to verify but this news isn't new
>here but I hear several
>complaints about the barnes.
>Guess what I can complain
>about my bullet choices to.
>I have had good and
>bad luck With my choices...
>
>
>
>100 guys. 100 ways
>
 

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